Non-motoring > It's winter - guess what it's cold! Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Rudedog Replies: 149

 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Rudedog
More than a few times over the weekend I heard warnings of cold weather and a possibility of temperatures close to or below freezing, even on the weather during CountryFile we were warned of a cold snap at the end of the week and a yellow weather alert had been issued.

Now I don’t know about you guys but when I looked at the calendar it said that we are in December which I thought was in winter…… am I missing something but the seemingly dire warnings don’t match with what I would say is ‘normal’ weather for this time of year.

What next…. ‘watch out it’s raining so you may get wet!’


 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - sooty123
> What next…. ‘watch out it’s raining so you may get wet!’
>>
>>
>>

Flood warnings, I think they call them.

Changes in weather will always be noted/mentioned it's the first cold spell of this winter, perhaps best if it's never mentioned.

;-)
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Manatee
Technically, winter starts on 21st December:)

Here, the mean temp dropped sharply from 29th November. I thought then that the weather was much more what we should expect at that time of year. Most of November was really quite mild. I was out setting up, lighting fireworks and clearing away on Nov 5th, and in contrast with past years when it has usually been bitter, it was almost warm.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - CGNorwich
Astronomical winter does but:

“However, at the Met Office, we often use a meteorological definition of the seasons. By the meteorological calendar, the first day of winter is always 1 December; ending on 28 (or 29 during a Leap Year) February.

Meteorological seasons consist of splitting the seasons into four periods made up of three months each. These seasons are split to coincide with our Gregorian calendar, making it easier for meteorological observing and forecasting to compare seasonal and monthly statistics.

The seasons are defined as spring (March, April, May), summer (June, July, August), autumn (September, October, November) and winter (December, January, February).”
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Bromptonaut
First significant frost of the winter this morning in west Northamptonshire.

Quite unusual I think for it to be as late as the end of the first week in December.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 7 Dec 22 at 08:47
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - CGNorwich
Yes. As a gardener it used to be normal to get a first frost in October, blackening the frost sensitive plants. Extremely mild an wet autumn this year.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Zero
Yeah its not so much its cold, now, that's not unusual, its just the fact Its suddenly gone from mild to cold.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Runfer D'Hills
Some things never change of course. I’m working from home today so I don’t need my car until I go for a swim this evening.
“She” though, has an office day today, so guess who was the one outside freezing his nuts off while scraping ice off her car?
:-(
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - CGNorwich
One of the benefits of an electric car. Just turn on in the car heating remotely with your phone.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Zero
>> One of the benefits of an electric car. Just turn on in the car heating
>> remotely with your phone.

Another benefit is reduced range in cold weather.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - CGNorwich
True but you can’t have everything. Overall EV ownership has so far proved a positive experience .
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Zero
you never go anywhere in it.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Rudedog
I'd like to know the science behind whether you do or don't have frost on your window screen in the mornings.

Today it was 1.5 degrees when I set of at 0630, being on the top of the North Downs that temp would nearly always mean a frosty screen but today the whole car was as clear as a bell.

I guess the air seemed very 'dry' but tomorrow onwards I fully expect to be de-frosting.

Just wondered why on some very cold 0 degree mornings there is no frost and on other 'warmer' (+2) I could have thin ice?

At least in the GTi I have very hot air when 5 minutes of driving.

 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Zero
It was -2 here, heavy dew on the windscreen, no frost, no wind.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - CGNorwich
Anyone one off to warmer climes for the winter? It’s not so much the cold I dislike but the drab greyness of an English winter. Decided to spend February on the island of La Palma ( hopefully no volcanic eruptions ).

 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Bromptonaut
>> It was -2 here, heavy dew on the windscreen, no frost, no wind.

About the same here I think.

Both cars were well frozen up until the sun got onto them. Those parked in shade - parts of the road get no sun at this time of the year - are still frozen.

Office day tomorrow with an 09:00 start in the centre of Northampton. Need to allow 5 minutes extra for defrosting.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Bromptonaut
>> It was -2 here, heavy dew on the windscreen, no frost, no wind.

Where was -2 recorded? Is it via a thermometer around your house or what's reported for your locale via the media or an app on your phone.

If there was unfrozen condensation on your car then presumably something local, perhaps proximity to the house kept the surrounding air above freezing. Sort of the opposite of a frost pocket.

 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Manatee

>> If there was unfrozen condensation on your car then presumably something local, perhaps proximity to
>> the house kept the surrounding air above freezing. Sort of the opposite of a frost
>> pocket.


Not necessarily. Just no dew.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Zero
>> >> It was -2 here, heavy dew on the windscreen, no frost, no wind.
>>
>> Where was -2 recorded?

External wireless thermometer probe. Its in natural shelter (From winds and sun) so fairly indicative.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Bromptonaut
>> External wireless thermometer probe. Its in natural shelter (From winds and sun) so fairly indicative.

In which case the fact there was unfrozen dew on your car is curious. Proximity to the house and/or neighbour's houses. Car parked down the side of the house at our previous gaff was less likely to freeze then the one parked ahead of it on the open drive.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Manatee
>>Just wondered why on some very cold 0 degree mornings there is no frost and on other 'warmer' (+2) I could have thin ice?

All to do with relative humidity (RH) and the dew point.

There's a certain amount of moisture in the air. RH is a% being the moisture level as a proportion of the maximum moisture the air could hold at that temperature.

When the temp drops, RH goes up - colder air can hold less water. At the dew point, the temp at which the air is saturated with moisture, water condenses. If the temperature goes below freezing below the dew point you will have water and it will be frozen.

The phenomenon of frost on the windscreen when the general temp is above zero is because the layer next to the screen is at a lower temp. That could be because it has been colder, and has not melted yet, or evaporation could be a factor especially if there's wind.

If it's below freezing but there's no frost on the window, the dew point is probably below the current temperature.

Play with this. You can enter a RH and a temp, and it will calculate the dew point. So e.g. if its 5c and 90% RH, you can calculate that dew will form if the temp drops by 1.5C.

www.calculator.net/dew-point-calculator.html

I have some of these. Sometimes interesting to see what's going on.

smile.amazon.co.uk/EEEKit-Temperature-Thermometer-Hygrometer-Greenhouse/dp/B07GPT8HPY/
Last edited by: Manatee on Wed 7 Dec 22 at 11:35
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Ted

Frost on both cars this morning. Her Micra, parked in the road. hadn't cleared by 1530 when she needed to go out.

Mine was ok on the drive 'cos the mid afternoon sun shines directly between the houses.

I'm putting the screen cover on hers tonight as I don't want her getting me up at 0930 to clear it for her trip to fat club !

Pair of electric gloves arrived for me from Mr Amazon an hour ago. My right fumm dies in this cold....and I'm right-handed. Power is by USB, don't know how long they last before recharge but they're not the heavy ski/motorbike ones. Might just let me get on with a few jobs outside. I found the best way of unlocking my fingers is a sink full of fairly warm water.

Ted
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - DeeW
Ted, I buy the heat pouches that Lidl sell during ski week, last for an hour and reactivated by simmering in boiling water. They are brilliant to resolve cramps and non working digits. I keep them in my jacket pocket, car etc. I have my grandfathers hand warmer which he had during the wars (pilot in first, soldier in second) and then used when he went racing. I’m not brave enough to carry around such a fire hazard!
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Bobby
Had a couple of days of heavy frost here which has reminded me of the annual headache that the missus’ Beetle windows freeze.
They are frameless and supposed to drop an inch when the car gets unlocked but they freeze solid to the roof. Which means you then are opening the glass against the roof….

Last year I tried coating the edges with olive oil but it made no difference. This year I have gone for PTFE spray but doesn’t seem to be helping either.

Car also gets a full body cover put over it when we know it’s going to be frosty.

WFH has its benefits….
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - bathtub tom
>> the
>> annual headache that the missus’ Beetle windows freeze.

I found a light application of furniture polish on the door rubbers prevented the door freezing shut.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Runfer D'Hills
Try silicone on the rubbers.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Bobby
That’s what the PTFE spray is, is it not?
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Manatee
The usual advice is silicone pilot Gummi Pflege which is a product specifically made for the job.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Zero
Dont work on the beemer, the top door seal bonds itself to the roof even when treated with silicon spray.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Runfer D'Hills
You all probably know this old trick anyway, but just in case it’s news to anyone, if a car door is “stuck” due to being frozen, just sort of lean on it a bit before you try opening it.
Pushing it inwards towards the shut position can help to free it.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Rudedog
Yeap a vote for Gummi Pflege, various German makers, I've got bottles from Wurth and Liqui Moly, go on with a sponge applicator and keeps your rubbers supple!
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - sherlock47
and keeps your rubbers supple!


should help one of our dwindling number cope with the cost of living crisis?
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Bobby
Have now ordered some of this to see if it works.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Zero
>> Have now ordered some of this to see if it works.

What, Tights?
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Manatee
Chuffing cold this morning. -5C. Took her car for MoT, she's not driving at the moment due to cataract operation so I took my Brompton to ride a mere 4 miles home on. Too cold, eyes hurting. I'm not even slightly hard, stopped at the village shop half way home for a cup of tea and a warm up.

I had forgotten to isolate the outside taps. Hoping I've been lucky.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Runfer D'Hills
I shall be up a Welsh mountain tomorrow on my bike. With the right kit on it’ll be fine and lovely.
I’m not hard either these days, more brittle really!
;-)
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Zero
>> I shall be up a Welsh mountain tomorrow on my bike. With the right kit
>> on it’ll be fine and lovely.

On Sunday I shall be chief steward at a dog show. Its a role that basically means you hope nothing happens, and hang around doing nothing all day. Trouble is its going to be cold - around freezing and snow - Sooooo. the thermal long johns have just been delivered by mr amazon this morning.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Runfer D'Hills
Anyone got any spare mind bleach?
:-(
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Zero
>> Anyone got any spare mind bleach?
>> :-(
>
I bet you have worn Mrs D'hills tights in the past..........
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Runfer D'Hills
I have my own axshully. Two pairs in fact.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Manatee
I have couple of pairs of 'insulting' trousers from Craghoppers. Had some on this morning, worked well.

They seem to have adopted the marketing method of inventing high prices and then 'discounting'. I paid £25 for them, albeit 5 years ago.

www.craghoppers.com/mens-kiwi-winter-lined-trousers-black-1/
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Runfer D'Hills
One can see how such a garment might indeed attract insults.
;-)
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Manatee
>> One can see how such a garment might indeed attract insults.
>> ;-)


Especially when tucked into the socks.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Runfer D'Hills
Not exactly James Bond levels of sartorial elegance then?
;-)
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Manatee
I'm a natural scruff, if I dressed James Bond and I'd still look lumpen.

But I never wear jeans or "trainers". Walking britches, and the coat-of-many-pockets are my default everyday choice.

www.paramo-clothing.com/en-gb/explore-range/product/new-mens-halkon-traveller/

Depending on the weather, fleeces might have a role.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMj4JoHVpeI

 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - CGNorwich
“The Halkon Traveller is for outdoor people who need quick access to essential equipment.”

Ah I see they know the needs of their older clientele.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Manatee
>> “The Halkon Traveller is for outdoor people who need quick access to essential equipment.”
>>
>> Ah I see they know the needs of their older clientele.

There's still scope for development. With 15 pockets it's not unusual to have to search half of them before finding what you needed quick access to. TBH I thought it was an even number so there might be one I haven't found.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Zero

>> There's still scope for development. With 15 pockets it's not unusual to have to search
>> half of them before finding what you needed quick access to. TBH I thought it
>> was an even number so there might be one I haven't found.

TBH, they dot look that warm, still lots of pockets to fill with little hotties hand warmers.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Manatee
They aren't warm, or very waterproof.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Zero

>> Especially when tucked into the socks.

Tuck mine into my knee length Dublin boots.

 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Runfer D'Hills
Ah the “Compo” look?
;-)
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Dog
I put an olde Hanwag walking boot over my outside tap. Warm though on Bodmin Moor at -1.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - tyrednemotional
...been to the S-i-L's in the darkest depths of Northumberland today.

Some snow flurries while we were there, but leaving at 16:30 there was a good covering on the A68 North of Corbridge (white over, no tyre tracks).
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Dog
Minus 3.5 this morgen, and no heating. How can ASHP,s extract heat from the air, when there isn't any?

16 degree inside the owse thanks to highly-insulated new build.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - RichardW
Plenty of heat left, you've got another 270 degrees (C or K) before you get to absolute zero!

As long as the boiling point of the refrigerant is below the ambient temperature the ASHP can pump heat (although they start to freeze on the outside of the coils, so have to run a defrost cycle). A freezer works with an in internal temp of -20C and a condenser temperature on the back of about 30-40C - it's the same process.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Falkirk Bairn
I put another scoop of coal on the fire and the room is now cosy.

Need to order another 1/2 tonne - 2 years ago £140, 1 year ago £160, today £300
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Zero
>> I put another scoop of coal on the fire and the room is now cosy.
>>
>> Need to order another 1/2 tonne - 2 years ago £140, 1 year ago £160,
>> today £300

there is a steam train running today, it will consume about 16 tonnes.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Falkirk Bairn
My coal still comes from Wales
The steam coal needed by the trains comes from .............. Kazakhstan! (Central Asia)
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - CGNorwich

>>
>> there is a steam train running today, it will consume about 16 tonnes.
>>

Of number 9 coal?

m.youtube.com/watch?v=RRh0QiXyZSk
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Crankcase
Can you still buy coal for domestic heating? I thought it had been banned and it was all smokeless now?

I lit the stove this morning and sitting by it now - cosy as anything, but it's smokeless thingies. I buy from CPL, cos it's easy, and they don't show any coal on their site that I can see.

We buy about ten bags every two years, so not heavy users!
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Dog
I've phoned the Co who fitted it and they are going to send 'a man' out later.

Property faces SE so warms up pretty quickly :)
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Robin O'Reliant
My drivers door lock was frozen this morning, as were both doors. Some warm water round the edge of the passenger door eventually freed it and I had to scramble across the seat to get behind the wheel. This was at 6:30, it took till nearly ten till the drivers lock would turn.

Out with the silicone today, WD40 in the locks and a bit of foil to cover them tonight.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Runfer D'Hills
How are you getting on with the Panda? Hopefully it is working out for you?
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Robin O'Reliant
Very well, thanks.

It's a lovely car to drive, very comfortable and nippy enough for what I want.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Runfer D'Hills
Fab! Glad you like it!

They are very easy to like in my experience. Unless you try to get an 8’ Christmas tree in one as I did once… ;-)
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Zero
>> My drivers door lock was frozen this morning, as were both doors.

Godamn we forgot to tell you Panda doors freeze up. Sorry
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - tyrednemotional
>>
>> Godamn we forgot to tell you Panda doors freeze up. Sorry
>>

...deliberate design feature intended to bamboo(zle) owners....
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Runfer D'Hills
It’s not quite that black and white…
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Runfer D'Hills
Probably not the best idea with modern car keys with electronic innards and so on, but I have in the dim and distant past heated up the blade of a car key with a lighter to melt the inner workings of a car door lock. Don’t carry a lighter now either so the plan is rather fundamentally flawed on reflection…

As you were.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Ted

A tip I heard about was to half fill a poly bag with hot water, not boiling, seal it and use the heat on your car glass areas. I thought about this and wondered whether a microwave wheat bag would do the same.Fiver or so off Amazon.

Swm says she has one somewhere in the form of a pink teddy bear. Might try it.

The RAV heats up quickly and is behind the gates so it won't get nicked. The Micra needs a good scraping although we have one of them there silver screen covers.

Ted
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - sooty123
>>
>> A tip I heard about was to half fill a poly bag with hot water,
>> not boiling, seal it and use the heat on your car glass areas.

I'm led to believe a hot water bottle left on the dash overnight does the same job
Last edited by: sooty123 on Fri 9 Dec 22 at 17:00
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Runfer D'Hills
Here’s something that was interesting to me tonight. Apologies if it isn’t to anyone else! ;-)

Anyway, having had a cold and frosty few days, it rained for a while earlier this evening and then it froze again.

I’ve just been out in my car on a short journey that involved untreated country roads. They were pretty treacherous with regular patches of white and black ice. On a not too steep hill, a Range Rover in front of me was struggling to get up it and the driver eventually gave up and pulled over to the side of the road at the bottom of the hill.

As I delicately went past it and successfully tootled up the hill, in my RWD E Class, I noticed in my mirror the Range Rover turning and retreating back the way it had come.

No driver divinity involved on my part, just full winter tyres.

They make a heck of a difference.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Fri 9 Dec 22 at 21:46
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Zero
But when do you put them on? The way our seasons are going its about 3 days between mild autumn and freezing winter.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 9 Dec 22 at 21:49
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - legacylad
Indeed.
On my 330 I had Michelin Alpins, albeit only an all season tyre. I remember one snowy night driving back to Settle from the far side of Skipton. Again a RR stuck on the hill out of Coniston Cold.
The 330 made it. Just. But just was enough.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Runfer D'Hills
I put them on mid November and take them off mid April as a rule. You’re quite correct of course, most of the time they are unnecessary. It’s only because my car goes over the channel a few times a year into countries that require winter tyres that I bother.
And, they work very well on muddy car parks that I frequent when accessing mountain biking opportunities.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Ted
>> I put them on mid November and take them off mid April as a rule.


Same with my thermal long johns.

Ted
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - tyrednemotional
>> >> I put them on mid November and take them off mid April as a
>> rule.
>>
>>
>> Same with my thermal long johns.
>>
>> Ted
>>

...do you then wash them, or just put them back in the drawer for the next year?...
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Ted

>> ...do you then wash them, or just put them back in the drawer for the
>> next year?...
>>

Just put a scoop of Omo in the monthly bath and get in with them on.

Ted
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - tyrednemotional
There certainly comes a point at which having winter tyres would make a difference, but in general, in the UK, many people don't have the nous to adapt to winter conditions.

I only failed to get to or from work twice in 20+ years on my 20-mile commute in winter conditions. Once when the queue into the town I worked in extended to 6 miles, and I simply went home and worked from there. The second was in admittedly bad conditions when the (traditional) LandRover in front of me gave up and turned round (an A-road that was then closed for 4 days due to snow!).

In coming home, I once was baulked by traffic in front of me up a steep hill, tried an alternative parallel route with the same results, and then reverted back to the original, and with a clear run had no trouble in second at a reasonable pace (and that was in a RWD Granada).

I've been over Kirkstone Pass in an RWD Chevette when it was closed due to snow (closed whilst we were crossing) and it was hairy, but without interference from other drivers it was ultimately do-able.

OTOH, there have been a few occasions in ostensibly less challenging conditions when I might have liked winter tyres. I got caught driving home from a meeting in the M1/M6 angle when there had been "thundersnow" and the road, whilst level, was lethal. In expectation, I applied the brakes well in advance of a roundabout, to be met with nothing at all. Luckily, the roundabout was clear, and I got enough traction to negotiate it, but I suspect winter tyres might have been better for the state of the seats.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - bathtub tom
The only time when I've been stopped, was when an artic got stuck on an uphill slip road and another thought they could get by.

Knights of the road!
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - sooty123
Where do you store them? I take it you have a full set (tyres and wheels) to swap over every six months.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Runfer D'Hills
In my garage Sooty. On a shelf.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - sooty123
Car stuff in a garage, what is this madness you speak of? ;-)

My mate ended up storing 2 sets of wheels and tyres at work. His OH wasn't impressed with them on the property, so ended up in a store room for years.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Runfer D'Hills
Apart from the occasional legal requirement for them, I regard them a bit like anti lock brakes or other safety features you can easily live without most of the time until the moment you’re a bit glad you have them.

Straw poll of one and all that but we had Michelin Crossclimates on the old FWD Qashqai my wife had. But, they were not as good (in my layman’s opinion at least) as the full winters I have on the RWD Merc when it got properly cold.



 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - sooty123
I get the need for them, I've done the alps in winter a few times and desert conditions more than once. You need what you need, most of the time bog standard is fine. Until it's not, even better when someone else is paying.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - CGNorwich
I guess the fact is that when you are retired you don’t actually have to go out every day and you can venture out only when you want to.

I’m actually wondering how the ID3 will cope with snow and icy conditions. It’s rear wheel drive and like all EVs pretty heavy.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Runfer D'Hills
Weight is a factor, many years ago when I had a Defender, it was of course good at getting moving in slippery conditions but stopping it was a very different matter.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Zero
>> Weight is a factor, many years ago when I had a Defender, it was of
>> course good at getting moving in slippery conditions but stopping it was a very different
>> matter.
With 4wd and at two tonnes, the beemer is great at traction. Stopping it however required the aid of the snow banks at the side of the road. Still Mr hills has experience of using kerbs to aid driving
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - sooty123
>> I guess the fact is that when you are retired you don’t actually have to
>> go out every day and you can venture out only when you want to.
>>
>> I’m actually wondering how the ID3 will cope with snow and icy conditions. It’s rear
>> wheel drive and like all EVs pretty heavy.
>>

Take it for a drive, let us know.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Manatee
The friction in theory is proportionate to the weight. It's more the braking and cornering when weight makes itself a nuisance.

Best car we ever had in the snow was a Saab 96, which led me to think FWD was an advantage. But a FWD Audi was terrible. For choice, RWD with some weight in the boot. Are the batteries under the boot floor?
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Dog
Best vehicle I ever drove on the white stuff was my little Honda Acty van that I used when I first started mobile car engine tuning back in '78.

Worst was my Landover Discovery when driving down a very steep hill when we lived at Warleggan.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Terry
Tyres are the principal determinant of icy or snowy performance - although whether 2WD on winter tyres is better than 4WD on summer tyres is debatable.

But there are two issues to consider:

1. Traction gets you going - 4WD is always going to be better than 2WD on the same tyres
2. Braking and cornering - same tyres on the same number of wheels - little difference?

Better traction is pointless if, having deployed it, you can't then stop!

In the mostly temperate south west of UK it is rarely snowy or icy (unlike today). On the 1 or 2 days every few years when there is more than 50mm of snow - just stay home till it's cleared. Not worth the risk to car, insurance, and me to go out.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - bathtub tom
First time I ever drove a Mini back in the sixties was on snow. I thought the grip was phenomenal until I came to a downhill T junction. Fortunately there was a driveway opposite with fresh snow and nothing was coming.
I always wondered what the owners thought when they saw the tyre tracks, but at least they stopped short of the garage door!
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Runfer D'Hills
Bet they wondered what the smell was too!
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Sat 10 Dec 22 at 12:31
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Runfer D'Hills
youtu.be/atayHQYqA3g

At least interesting, and pretty much in line with my personal experience.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Robin O'Reliant
Early finish today. No Mails, Suns, Times, Telegraphs or I Dailys anywhere west of Swansea (And possibly further up the line) owing the M25 coming to a standstill.

Doesn't take much to bring the world to a halt.
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Mon 12 Dec 22 at 11:43
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - smokie
Hmph, blooming global warming... LOL
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - zippy
Snow...My nephew was visiting his grandmother (my MIL) yesterday and got caught out by the snow.

There is a really steep hill to ascend to get to the main road and cars were not making it up and those going down weren't stopping until they hit something.

He sensibly, in my view, parked up on a stranger's drive, knocked on their door to explain the situation and asked permission to leave his car there overnight, then walked back to grandmother's place and slept on the sofa there as home is around 20 miles away by foot.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Terry
Your nephew clearly has some sense.

Most seem not to believe the weather warnings are for their benefit.

They are uniquely unaffected by the laws of physics when it comes friction between tyres and ice, and in the unlikely event their journey is bought to an untimely cold induced halt that a kit kat and a couple of gallons of petrol in the tank will keep them warm and comfortable overnight.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - tyrednemotional
>>
>> He sensibly, in my view, parked up on a stranger's drive, knocked on their door
>> to explain the situation and asked permission to leave his car there overnight....
>>

...back in my climbing days, we used to use a variety of climbing club huts for winter weekends. It made for some fairly "hairy" journeys given the mountainous nature of the destinations.

The hut at Tranearth, above Torver in the Lake District is quite high up, and at the end of a largely impassable farm track. Parking is towards the bottom of the track, in a small quarry, and there is a walk of about a kilometre up the hill - a pain at the best of times carrying a weekend's gear and food, triply so on a dark winter's night in a blizzard.

On one particular visit, the snow was bad, and one of the early arrivals found only one set of tyre-tracks in front of him, followed them and parked up just off the track. On departure on Sunday afternoon, he discovered that, whilst the rest of us had parked in the designated quarry, he'd parked slap in the middle of someone's lawn, slightly further down the track.... (and he wasn't very popular!)
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - bathtub tom
Sister-in-law felt the wheels spin coming out of a T junction. Switched it off, got out and walked home, leaving the car in the middle of the road!

It's not the weather that blocks the roads, it's the numpties!
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Zero
Was at a dog show in deepest Sussex yesterday, the journey there and back had it all, freezing fog, Bright sun, some ice, some snow.

The stability control did a little bit of work - there is no light flashing to say its at work, but you can feel the power delivery change, sometimes by corner.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Boxsterboy
We were visiting friends in Finchley, and the forecast I saw certainly didn't predict snow, so it was a bit of a shock when we stepped outside at 21.30 to be greeted by a white-out (well 3"). Local roads all snow-covered. Got to the North Circular via Colney Hatch Lane, and that was down to 1 clear lane, although it was fine by the time we got to Henly's Corner. The conditions were not helped by a considerable amount of mimsing from fellow drivers!
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Boxsterboy
>> Straw poll of one and all that but we had Michelin Crossclimates on the old
>> FWD Qashqai my wife had. But, they were not as good (in my layman’s opinion
>> at least) as the full winters I have on the RWD Merc when it got
>> properly cold.
>>

Make that a straw poll of 2!

I used to fit winter tyres when I had rwd an E-class estate for winter trips into Europe and they were just fine. I would swap them myself, but cars aren't getting any lighter and I used Cross Climates on the last two cars (Peugeot Traveller and Merc Viano) all year round. The Viano is comparable to an E-class (rwd, auto) but the grip with the Cross Climates was noticeably inferior to the winters on the E-class. Cross Climates on fwd manual Traveller were just fine, so (obviously!) driven wheels and gearbox do make a difference.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Dog
Twice I've woken up to no heating. I told ,em (Oldham) the thing is freezing up.

Not possible they sez, the Daikin Atherma will operate down to - 25.

'A man' is coming on Friday morn to add more glycol to it, followed on Friday afternoon by the engineer who commissioned it (a commisionaire?)
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - tyrednemotional
>>
>> (a commisionaire?)
>>

...as it's so cold, probably be a Kommissar from Siberia....
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Dog
No heating again this morgen, It's only minus 2 outside, but the 'heat' pump has a covering of 2" of the white stuff.

Dunno how they would get on with an ASHP in parts of the land of the Scots where it was minus 17 in some parts yesterday.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - RichardW
It should run a defrost cycle to clear the ice, sounds like it's either not set up properly, or there's something wrong with the temp sensor that is not picking up that it's iced up.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Dog
The defrost cycle usually wakes me up at 3am, but I haven't heard it for a few nights - the water tank etc is right under my bedroom :)

As I say, engineer/s coming on Friday.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Dog
>>As I say, engineer/s coming on Friday.

3 turned up from 9:30am onwards and were here for 6 and a half hours in all :)

First one, W, added the glycol which was a tad more involved than sticking some Bluecol in ya mark 2 Cortina on a Sunday morning!!

Second one, C, who was the kiddy when it comes to heat pumps, turned up in the afternoon, along with J, who did the original installation.

The radiators were installed with microbore piping, which made their job more difficult in getting the glycol round the system of 8 rads.

The glycol will 'slump' in the rad apparently, so they had to drain orf each rad until the blue stuff came out of the top.

When C completed setting up the technical side of things, W went round each rad with his thermal imaging camera thingy making sure all was well.

The Hive stat has been set to manual, with no schedules, so it's on 24/7.

Temp is set to 19, which I reduce to 18 overnight. Having had no heating most of this week, 18 feels rather warm, so I've left it at that for now (1 degree outside)

C ran through things to do if I ever smell burning or if the tank explodes underneath my bedroom etc.

Wishing you all a warm Christmas :)



 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - bathtub tom
>>The glycol will 'slump' in the rad apparently

I learnt that when rebuilding an Austin 7 engine. The waterways were partly blocked by a jelly like substance. The anti-freeze had 'set'. It relied upon thermo-syphon to circulate the coolant and without a pump to agitate it happens.
Another car would boil the coolant for the same reason. Simple to cure with a good flush.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Dog
>>I learnt that when rebuilding an Austin 7 engine

They had an Austin 7 on Bangers and Cash yesterday, I liked the look of it, until big Derek climbed into it and made it look like a Noddy car.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - bathtub tom
>> They had an Austin 7 on Bangers and Cash yesterday, I liked the look of
>> it, until big Derek climbed into it and made it look like a Noddy car.

I had that problem, 6'1" and sixteen stone. Only drove it once and couldn't bend my legs to get out (christ knows how I got in). Had to get my upper body on the floor outside the car and crawl out!
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Clk Sec
>> Wishing you all a warm Christmas :)

Glad to hear that your heating is up and running again, Dog.

Happy Xmas!

 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Dog
>>Happy Xmas!

And you CS, plus a healthy new year.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - car4play
>> It should run a defrost cycle to clear the ice

Problem with our office aircon (in heat mode) is that the defrost cycle takes ages to perform, so we sit freezing our bits off whilst waiting for the heat to kick in, and then when it does it only lasts a few minutes before it has to do another defrost. By the end of the day the temperature is finally tolerable, but even though it's been on since midnight, first thing at 9 it's rather cold.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Falkirk Bairn
-17Deg in Northern Scotland.

In the remote parts / islands there is no gas supply - electricity is too expensive for heating - it's oil / calor gas heating or coal fires/boilers.

Big storms a year past had people with no electricity for 2-3 weeks in some cases. Central heating is useless without pumps/ignition hence the bottled gas, coal fires/Aga/Rayburn etc

A local coalman delivers 30 ton loads in Sept/October time to estates in the highlands - the estate the divides the coal up amongst the estate cottages, some estate employees foc as it is part of their pay, tenants pay the estate owners.

 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Bromptonaut
>> In the remote parts / islands there is no gas supply - electricity is too
>> expensive for heating - it's oil / calor gas heating or coal fires/boilers.

Media reports over the weekend highlighted a resurgence of peat burning in Ireland.

It will be interesting, when next visiting the Western Isles, to see whether the same trend is visible.

We've been going there for about 40 years and on of the very noticeable changes is the disappearance of peat stacks outside houses and lack of the smell of the smoke lingering around villages.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - DeeW
Parents had oil for generator, two hours electricity in the evenings, taken to Island off Mull on an old landing craft in September. Ran chest freezers, stuffed with old eiderdowns, on that power, plus bit of tv etc. Cooking, hot water and heating was provided by solid fuel Rayburn in the centre of the cottage.
Cousins funeral in Edinburgh not attended by the Shetland based family this week.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Dog
I still long for a solid fuel Rayburn in a live in kitchen. I had an oil fired one back in the day, but It's not the same.

2 friends up on Bodmin Moor had 'em, and I well remember how toasty their places always were.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Kevin
>No heating again this morgen, It's only minus 2 outside, but the 'heat' pump has a covering of 2" of the white stuff.

Maybe it's on strike for better conditions.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Manatee
We should exchange notes on this Dog when we have more data.

Albeit we have had ours running since April, the outside unit was replaced on 2 December when it was "cold", but since then of course it has got "colder".

Early days and I am still tweaking and learning, but there is a very clear relationship between outside temperature and power consumption as you'd expect.

From 3-7 Dec I estimated the mean outside temp at 4.5C;  HP consumed an average of 24.7 kWh / £8.87 per day.

From 8-13 Dec I estimated the mean temp at -1.2C;  HP consumed an average of 37.3 kWh / £13.35 per day.

At the moment I'm guessing it's using a bit of energy to defrost itself.  

Its own performance figures look poor - what I haven't worked out yet is whether they are accurate.  There seems to be a very small difference in the flow and return temperatures and I think the sensors might be incorrectly fitted or situated.  When there's a bit more data I'll get on to Mitsubishi.  The house is warm - I can't see how it would get warm enough if the temp drop across the loops was as low as is reported (about 2 degrees).


 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - BiggerBadderDave
Minus eight here. The hot tub is going back in the garage this weekend.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Manatee
>> Minus eight here. The hot tub is going back in the garage this weekend.

But you'll still be using it?
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Dog
We only moved in about 2 weeks ago, Mano'tea, so all new to me. No landline here yet, so I've been using an olde Moto E4 Plus to access the internet - virtually no signal here either (fun & games!)

I've not checked on our energy use yet, but I have read up on heat pumps and energy use in cold weather :(

One site even suggested a hybrid system of conventional boiler plus an ASHP :)

New build like you so 17 degrees indoors, and I'm sitting here in shorts and T shirt.

Who needs heating??
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Manatee
I doubt if it's worth having a gas boiler and a heat pump in our climate. I might have tried 18 degrees, but herself feels the cold and there's no question of having it any cooler than she's happy with. TBH I'm a bit nesh as well. Living room stat's set at 22-23. Temp at sitting down level settles at around 20-21. Bed and bathrooms a bit cooler but not much, so that could account for what looks like a chunky cost. I've already forecast £3,000 of electric this year and looks as if half of that will fall in Dec-Feb. We do have a high phantom load here as well, what with cameras, ventilation system, alarm, outside lights

Some people we know locally have their heating at 14C. I don't think they are hard up, they have just got obsessed with energy saving. They seem to be OK, but I think they are quite likely to have damp problems at that temperature.

We've been using the log burner in the evenings. I've been buying logs for convenience, I can get through maybe £2-3 worth in an evening. I have more or less got the hang of the stove but I find I have to give it quite a bit of attention to keep it in the zone of usefulness - i.e. not smouldering low, or infernally hot.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Zero

>> as well. Living room stat's set at 22-23.

What? ruddy hell thats high. We are comfortable with 19, with maybe a 30 minute boost to 20 late evening, an thats in a poorly insulated 1930s build
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Manatee
>>What? ruddy hell thats high

Sounds high to me too. I even checked the stat display was accurate. I don't know what height they are usually at, ours are all about 1.5m off the floor. It does stratify a bit and if I pass any comment she shows me the little thermometer on her side table that typically reads 2 degrees lower. We aren't sitting around in T shorts and shorts either. When she settles down of an evening to watch TV she is wrapped in her 'slanket' a sort of sleeved blanket/poncho thing that just leaves her head poking out.

There are absolutely no draughts and the floor isn't cold either due to the underfloor heating.

I think we do train ourselves to a certain temperature. The folk we know who have set their heating to 14 are the same age as we are. There's no chance of retraining her unless I remove all the thermometers and turn off the displays on the stats.

An ex-neighbour came by to drop a Christmas card yesterday and I hauled him in for a coffee and a Tunnocks wafer. He commented on how 'cosy' it was as he doffed his coat.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Dog
>>I think they are quite likely to have damp problems at that temperature

Plus condensation :(

The Hive thermostat in the hall is set at 19 degrees, which we find okay ... when the HP is working.

I like heat though - lived in Tenerife for 3 years. Starting to feel a tad chilly now though, out 'walking the dog' in 30 mins, might have to put a jumper on later when I sit down to watch Bangers and Cash :)
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Manatee
>> >>I think they are quite likely to have damp problems at that temperature
>>
>> Plus condensation :(
>>

That's what I was thinking of. If your house is at 14 degrees it's inevitable that there will be areas of outside wall, maybe also hidden by furniture, that are much colder than that. They have almost certainly limited the ventilation by bunging up all the gaps and keeping the windows shut. Human occupation creates moisture. I wouldn't be surprised if they have a fine crop of mould by the spring if they keep it up.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Bromptonaut
>> That's what I was thinking of. If your house is at 14 degrees it's inevitable
>> that there will be areas of outside wall, maybe also hidden by furniture, that are
>> much colder than that. They have almost certainly limited the ventilation by bunging up all
>> the gaps and keeping the windows shut. Human occupation creates moisture. I wouldn't be surprised
>> if they have a fine crop of mould by the spring if they keep it
>> up.

Previous house was a seventies built detached with bare cavity walls and gas warm air heating.

We replaced the original rotten and draughty softwood windows and doors with decent double glazing. With young children and clothes drying all the time we had constant issues with mould in corners and behind furniture on outside walls.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - bathtub tom
AIUI, if the temperature is lower then the air contains less water vapour. If a room is warmer, it follows the air could contain more water vapour. Wouldn't there be more chance of condensation forming on a cold surface?

This place I've bought has damp patches in the top corners of the main bedroom. I try to maintain the temperature in there at 15c overnight. There's 250mm of insulation in the loft and cavity wall insulation mortar plugs in the walls. I suspect the cavity wall insulation may have 'slumped', as there's no evidence of it in the loft. I'm wondering if it's polystyrene balls. I can't ask the previous owner as he's dead. We're going to have some windows replaced and hopefully get a peek into the cavity then.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - tyrednemotional

>> We're going to have some windows replaced and hopefully get a peek into the cavity
>> then.
>>

...if it's polystyrene balls, you'll soon find out, as will the rest of the street.... :-(
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - bathtub tom
>>if it's polystyrene balls, you'll soon find out, as will the rest of the street.... :-(

Didn't they use a light glue to bind them together, so that didin't happen?
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - tyrednemotional

>>
>> Didn't they use a light glue to bind them together, so that didin't happen?
>>

...they might do now; from experience it doesn't look like they did 40+ years ago.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Manatee
>>AIUI, if the temperature is lower then the air contains less water vapour. If a room is warmer, it follows the air could contain more water vapour. Wouldn't there be more chance of condensation forming on a cold surface?

Possibly. Heat is no guarantee that's true, the bathroom in the rental we had was well heated but mould grew in several places - ventilation comes in to it. But for a given amount of water the relative humidity will be higher in the air there is and the wall will presumably be colder.

It wasn't in my mind when I decided to put the MVHR* in here, but it does manage the humidity very well. It moves the equivalent of the house full of air every 2.4 hours. The bathroom humidity is usually 35-45%. It goes up to maybe 90% if someone has a long shower, and there's condensation on the windows, but in less than an hour it's gone and the RH is back below 50%.

*mechanical ventilation with heat recovery
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Dog
>>walking the dog' in 30 mins

Cold out there, colder than I've felt for many a year, and I had on a heavyweight T shirt, a sweatshirt, and 2 fleeces, one of which was a North Face 'Aleutian' fleece I paid £90 for 24 years ago :)

Anyway, when I came back I clouted the HP and the fan started working. The rads are now lukewarm, so maybe there will some warmth for Bangers and Cash at 9pm.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - sooty123
I've already forecast £3,000 of electric this year
>> and looks as if half of that will fall in Dec-Feb. We do have a
>> high phantom load here as well, what with cameras, ventilation system, alarm, outside lights
>>

How much do you think it would if you had gas? I've seen a few reports of the heat pumps, they look pretty expensive to run. Alot more than gas.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Duncan
Don't worry.

The evenings are drawing out now.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - tyrednemotional
...but the mornings aren't...
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Manatee
>> I've already forecast £3,000 of electric this year
>> >> and looks as if half of that will fall in Dec-Feb. We do have
>> a
>> >> high phantom load here as well, what with cameras, ventilation system, alarm, outside lights
>>
>> >>
>>
>> How much do you think it would if you had gas? I've seen a few
>> reports of the heat pumps, they look pretty expensive to run. A lot more than gas.

Sorry - long answer.

Good question, which I'm trying to assess. The £3,000 is based on current prices and about 8,200kWh. Of that, heat pump is about 4,300kWh, the remainder other stuff - although I think up to 1000kWh of the "other" might be heating-related being the cost of running the UFH pumps!

However the heat pump is averaging 38kWh in the current weather, out of a consumption of 54kWh total. Wife likes to be warm, and the mean outside temp for the last few days has been c. -1.5 degrees C. Before that, with a mean temp of 4.5 C, the heat pump was only 24kWh/day - so that 6 degree drop has cost £4-£5 a day.

I believe gas is currently about 10p/kWh and electric about 35p. For heating the cost should therefore be similar BUT there is the question of how it's used. I think if we had a gas boiler, I'd be stopping it at say 10pm and firing it up at 5am. We have been told to run the heating and DHW 24/7. This is because (1) the underfloor heating is not very reactive, from cold it will take at least 24 hours to warm the house, and (b) there is an overhead to starting the heat pump from cold so it becomes less efficient overall when it is stopped and started.

However I'm pretty sure we can tweak it. Maybe stop it at 9pm and restart at say 4am. Or heat water twice a day instead of all the time. I can also adjust the thermostats better - at the moment the unused and lightly used rooms are at 17-18 degrees. I don't want to keep them too cold but there's scope there. I'm getting a decent benchmark before I start complicating matters.

What I will say is that there seems to be plenty of scope with heat pumps for terrible installations and also that installers rarely give much information to users. If you're lucky, your installer will use a reasonable initial set up but that isn't always the case.

One really annoying thing is that when the unit is connected to the internet, the manufacturer collects very detailed data of which a very reduced and simplified subset is all I can access. The hourly data is overwritten every day for example. This is very common. One manufacturer, I have just read, (Global Energy Systems) only gives free access to this for 3 years, after which they want £150 a year for access!

I think my installation is probably OK but some of the information I am getting from the associated app looks garbage.

** Is this reasonable? It's a 5 bedroom 2 storey detached house built in 2021. Any got a similar situation with gas CH for comparison?
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - sooty123
Thanks, i guess it's difficult to compare like for like. I'm just trying to get my head around a mass role out of these replacing gas boilers.
I think new gas boilers are banned from 2030. They seem very expensive to buy, at least as expensive to run in some/many cases if not more.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Manatee
Just checked my EPC.

Estimated energy used to heat this property
Type of heating Estimated energy used
Space heating 5604 kWh per year
Water heating 2351 kWh per year


My forecast which is extrapolated from a few months use with added seasonality, is actually quite a bit lower for heat pump use. i.e. 3351 for heating and 950 for water. Include 1000 for the pumps makes 5301, vs 7955 on the EPC. As I understand it the EPC takes account of the efficiency of the heating system so these figures should be comparable.

Mind you, the EPC also says the yearly energy cost for tis property (heating, hot water and lighting) should be £801. They must have used <10p / unit.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Dog
An interesting article here, one of many of course. Minus 5.5 here this morning and no heating :o)

www.beeco.green/facts/air-source-heat-pumps-disadvantages/
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Zero
Blimey, cold here, -6.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - sooty123
-6c here, app says real feel -10c
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - CGNorwich
I love the fact that the original post was disparaging of the media obsession with the weather

“we are in December which I thought was in winter……”

and we have managed to post nearly 150 comments about it.

 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - smokie
Daughter said her car reported -7 this morning in Wokingham, tallies with one of the weather apps.

No heating on yet for the day. Doesn't usually go on till we are setting in the lounge later on - mainly because it doesn't seem to make a lot of difference in the other rooms for a large cost, despite the expenditure on it in the past year or so!!
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Runfer D'Hills
Soft southerners eh?
-8C here.
 It's winter - guess what it's cold! - Rudedog
-10 showing in the car this morning at 0630, none of the apps mentioned it being anywhere close to that for overnight.

I then only had to drive just over a mile off of the North Downs and the temp had risen to -4.5

Last edited by: Rudedog on Thu 15 Dec 22 at 12:37
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