Hello everybody,
I noticed yesterday that one of the downpipes on Spamcan Towers had water leaking out of it near the bottom. Further investigation today reveals that the earthenware pipe that the downpipe feeds into (roughly a foot underground and maybe 5 inches diameter) is packed solid with smelly mud, moss and small sticks.
I assume there is a soakaway 20 foot or so from the downpipe under the lawn, so currently the rainwater just backs up against the blockage and fills up the downpipe. I've removed as much gunk as I can by hand (boy does it pong) but only the first couple of feet from the down pipe, that I can access.
Any advice on the best approach to try and clear this? At the moment I've got rather more time than money:-/
Cheers../Andy
Last edited by: spamcan61 on Thu 30 Sep 10 at 15:46
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Stick a hosepipe down it (and hope for the best). A straightened out dry cleaner's wire coathanger is a great poker for a drain.
Do you know when it was last clear?
Failing all that, if you have a Karcher (type), then buy a karcher drain clearer attachment. 7.5m is £35 from Amazon.
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>> Stick a hosepipe down it (and hope for the best). A straightened out dry cleaner's
>> wire coathanger is a great poker for a drain.
>>
That was my first thought too, simple and cheap. Will have a go tomorrow. Bit worried about forcing the crap further into the soakaway but something needs to be done.
>> Do you know when it was last clear?
>>
We've been here nearly ten years and it's never been cleared out in that time. House is 30 years old.
>> Failing all that, if you have a Karcher (type), then buy a karcher drain clearer
>> attachment. 7.5m is £35 from Amazon.
>>
SWMBO bought me an 'RAC' brand pressure washer about 3 years ago for some unfathomable reason, it's been in it's box ever since; maybe I'll dust it off and see if it's close enough to a Karcher for the attachment to fit.
Thanks for the ideas../Andy
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If you have a pressure washer, you can take off the gun and feed the pipe down the drain washing as you go, failing that a hosepipe with a jet attachment on the end.
You can also buy, fairly cheaply a thick curtain wire type thing that goes down there and rakes it about,
If however your soakaway is full of dead moss, its gonna need redigging.
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>> If you have a pressure washer, you can take off the gun and feed the
>> pipe down the drain washing as you go, failing that a hosepipe with a jet
>> attachment on the end.
>>
OK, definitely going to be a hosepipe and pressure washer day tomorrow.
>> You can also buy, fairly cheaply a thick curtain wire type thing that goes down
>> there and rakes it about,
>>
Sounds like a good idea, soften it up a bit before the pressure washer delivers the knockout blow - maybe.
>> If however your soakaway is full of dead moss, its gonna need redigging.
>>
Yeah, that's my worst case scenario. I don't even know where the soakaway is. Maybe water divining / dowsing is anew career opportunity for me.
Thanks for the ideas../Andy
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"George". Just feed the flexible hose down it.
What's down there depends on many things, including the age of your house. It could be a soakaway, or it could run into the sewage system, or...
I'm wondering a bit 'cos you say that you can remove by hand "the first couple of feet". It would normally have a trapped gully.
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>>
>> What's down there depends on many things, including the age of your house. It could
>> be a soakaway, or it could run into the sewage system, or...
>>
Yeah, unknown territory. I'm guessing soakaway on the basis that the sewage system with manhole covers etc. is the opposite end of the property.
>> I'm wondering a bit 'cos you say that you can remove by hand "the first
>> couple of feet". It would normally have a trapped gully.
>>
I can't quickly find a picture on the 'net that matches my underground plumbing, but the downpipe disappears in to the ground (actually pea shingle), then about a foot down is a part that looks somewhat like this:-
www.screwfix.com/prods/82593/Plumbing/Soil-Vent/Single-Socket-Access-Pipe-SP581
Which has a chamber big enough for me to get my hand/ arm in and grab handfuls of muck.
So the water is then supposed to drain away down a pipe which goes 'somewhere'.
Thanks for your reply........./Andy
Last edited by: spamcan61 on Thu 30 Sep 10 at 16:22
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I'd guess the surface water feeds into a surface water drain.
Have a look at your water bill. Are you charged for disposing of surface water? If so, you're probably feeding into a drain. If not, then it could be a soakaway. Although you could be on a soakaway and being charged, in which case it's time to get your money back.
When dealing with drains, it's advisable to wear the correct protective clothing - a pair of old swimming trunks, which you throw away afterwards. ;>)
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>> I'd guess the surface water feeds into a surface water drain.
>>
>> Have a look at your water bill. Are you charged for disposing of surface water?
>> If so, you're probably feeding into a drain. If not, then it could be a
>> soakaway. Although you could be on a soakaway and being charged, in which case it's
>> time to get your money back.
>>
Thanks for that bt, I'll try and dig out a water bill.
I've done a quick diagram of what I've found so far in case it makes it any clearer:-
tinypic.com/r/zmh4r5/7
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Is a soakaway very likely at a 30-year-old house?
Iffy Towers is a Victorian terrace and is what I would call mains drainage.
I lift the drain cover every year or so and give it a hose round, being careful not to knock the mortar out of the brickwork.
I always admire the workmanship which must have gone into the various glazed drains and gulleys.
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>> Is a soakaway very likely at a 30-year-old house?
>>
>> Iffy Towers is a Victorian terrace and is what I would call mains drainage.
>>
>> I lift the drain cover every year or so and give it a hose round,
>> being careful not to knock the mortar out of the brickwork.
>>
Thanks for the reply, it would be nice if there isn't a soakaway to dig up; I'll have a closer look for drain covers in the vicinity of this pipe tomorrow anyway.
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...I'll have a closer look for drain covers in the vicinity of this pipe tomorrow anyway...
A snoop around neighbouring properties might be instructive, their drainage arrangements might be easier to work out and are likely to be similar to yours.
Is there someone who has lived in the street a long time?
They might have watched your house being built and have an idea of drainage.
A small, final point which might save you some time while you are looking around.
Drain covers are rectangular, manhole covers are round - not much point in lifting one of those, or trying to infer anything from its position.
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>> Drain covers are rectangular, manhole covers are round
I have never heard *that* before!
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...I have never heard *that* before!...
There's a good reason for it, too.
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The chamber is connected in clay pipe? Mm. If it's filled solid, could roots be getting in? You'll have to spend some time with George and associates and find out how blocked it is, and where it goes. Have fun!
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>> The chamber is connected in clay pipe? Mm. If it's filled solid, could roots be
>> getting in? You'll have to spend some time with George and associates and find out
>> how blocked it is, and where it goes. Have fun!
>>
Gawd, now you've got the thinking; when we moved in there was an overgrown shrub / small tree in the garden, which was directly in line with this drainage pipe. That's about 25 feet from the junction with the downpipe. Best find me old swimming trunks out as bt suggests.
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Do you think the access angle would allow you to poke down some drain rods? They come in 3 foot (approx) lengths, often fibreglass, and with a good bit of bend in them. My set has a few special end fittings including a reverse corkscrew thing to pull out stuff bit by bit and another fitting with a semi-circular hinged flap which flips back to enter the drain but then locks when withdrawn so you can pull out the muck.
But, it all does depend on the angle of dangle.
Last edited by: Dulwich Estate on Thu 30 Sep 10 at 18:03
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>>
>> But, it all does depend on the angle of dangle.
>>
Indeed, access is quite limited, I think there's some in my late father's shed, I'll make a trip down to Weymouth at the weekend if the hosepipe method fails.
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>>>there's some in my late father's shed<<<
be careful , if they are of the same vintage, they maybe wooden and and ready and primed to snap on a tight bend!
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>> >>>there's some in my late father's shed<<<
>>
>> be careful , if they are of the same vintage, they maybe wooden and and
>> ready and primed to snap on a tight bend!
>>
Good point thanks! they're probably older than me (49) and almost certainly wood.
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If you use a set of rods, do make sure you twist the the right way, I know a guy who twisted them the wrong way, and half the sections came undone down the drain...
There is only one way back from there, and it involved a lightweight reverse proxy caching navi to dig the drains up.
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>> There is only one way back from there, and it involved a lightweight reverse proxy
>> caching navi to dig the drains up.
Very good, although you could never describe a navi as lightweight...
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>>Good point thanks! they're probably older than me (49) and almost certainly wood.
If they're that old and survived then they could be like the set I inherited. Mine are a tight spiral of steel, turned to a smaller diameter at one end so they screw into each other. Heavy as hell!
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What I'm about to say, is relative to Cornwall, fings are done differently down here,
I've had a fair few blocked drains and soakaways over the years - including a blocked septic tank soakaway!
You must, must, must find out if it is actually a soakaway or does it drain into the main sewer,
A couple of my blocked soakaways I just left blocked because the land sloped away from the house, and the water eventually found its way into the sewer anyway (see fings done differently!)
At one property a few years ago, I had to rod the clay pipe but couldn't because of the S bend, so I dug down after the bend, cut an access hole in the clay pipe with an angle grinder, rodded and cleared the blockage, glued the bit back that I'd cut out, and had a cup of tea,
Where there's a will etc., etc., etc.
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>> >> Is a soakaway very likely at a 30-year-old house?
There is a third way, to coin a phrase:
The early 1980's build housing estate we're on has two sets of waste water disposal.
In addition to the usual, there is "surface water run-off" which is primarily fed by the grids in the street, but also takes housing gutterwater too. The run-off goes off into a "balancing lake" which was built along the course of a stream, the level of the lake goes up rather quickly after a downpour, and then slowly back down to its nominal level to avoid flooding out the next town downstream.
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Angle grinders in Cornwall!!!
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Thanks for the continuing input, outdoor play has been cancelled today due to bad weather, probably have a poke about down the 'ole tomorrow.
Got a few job applications and paperwork to sort out today anyway; funnily enough I have had a couple of emails through for 'waste water engineer' maybe I should stick it on my CV after the weekend.!
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Typical self employed consultant. Steal the info off the web, alter the words slightly and bill the client.
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>> Typical self employed consultant. Steal the info off the web, alter the words slightly and
>> bill the client.
>>
Ctrl C Ctrl V is all you need these days. ;-)
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Ctrl A can save a bit of effort.
John
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My remark about manhole covers being round has more of a background to it than I thought.
I was told years ago the covers are round to prevent them falling down the hole and injuring the man, or being lost.
(The cover has a lip so its diameter is slightly larger than the hole and therefore cannot fit through it.)
Looking at the web, it seems the question grew legs when Microsoft began using it as part of the psycho-babble in job interviews.
This is wiki's take on the story, but there are others:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhole_cover
Going back to the OP, drain covers are rectangular because the hole is usually only a few feet deep, and the shape helps to tell the two apart.
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>>
>> Looking at the web, it seems the question grew legs when Microsoft began using it
>> as part of the psycho-babble in job interviews.
>>
>> This is wiki's take on the story, but there are others:
>>
>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhole_cover
>>
>> Going back to the OP, drain covers are rectangular because the hole is usually only
>> a few feet deep, and the shape helps to tell the two apart.
>>
Cheers, there really is no limit to the subjects we can cover (oooh bit of a pun there) here on C4P is there :-)
Well it's been wazzing it down here all day and the water hasn't started filling up the downpipe yet, so my exertions clearing part of the blockage yesterday seem to have achieved something at least.
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...Well it's been wazzing it down here all day and the water hasn't started filling up the downpipe yet...
Same here in soggy-leafed North Yorkshire.
Where are you again, Spammers?
Central/southern England rings a bell.
Going back to your problem, I did wonder how long the crud had taken to build-up, and how much you've removed in terms of time.
Say it's been building up for 30 years, you might have removed 15 years' worth.
If so, there's not much point in going too overboard to sort the rest.
There's always the risk of doing one job and making another - cracking the pipe underground with a rod, for example.
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>>
>> Where are you again, Spammers?
>>
>> Central/southern England rings a bell.
>>
I'm betwixt the verdant green pastures of the New Forest and the azure blue seas of Christchurch bay. i.e. not far from the south's binge drinking capital Bournemouth
>> Say it's been building up for 30 years, you might have removed 15 years' worth.
>>
>> If so, there's not much point in going too overboard to sort the rest.
>>
>> There's always the risk of doing one job and making another - cracking the pipe
>> underground with a rod, for example.
>>
Yes, I've been thinking along those lines, it's really really chucking it down now and still no impromptu fountains from the downpipe. might well just try the gentle hosepipe + pressure washer hose tomorrow.
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>> might well just try the gentle hosepipe + pressure washer hose tomorrow.
George is good - seriously! It will remove stuff rather than pushing it in, which is a bonus.
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>> >> might well just try the gentle hosepipe + pressure washer hose tomorrow.
>>
>> George is good - seriously! It will remove stuff rather than pushing it in, which
>> is a bonus.
>>
George? pray enlighten me, or do you have a hose called George, FT?
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Think he means a wet and dry vacuum.
George is Henries bigger, wetter brother.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 1 Oct 10 at 16:50
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>> Think he means a wet and dry vacuum.
>>
>> George is Henries bigger, wetter brother.
>>
Ah right, I understand. Alas we have a Henry but no George, think one of the neighbours has though.
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>> Alas we have a Henry but no George, think one of the neighbours has though.
Well, they'll be pleased to lend it to you! After all, they can soon wipe all that stuff off when you give it back....
I have used a dustbin and a piece of plywood for cleaning out the drains... ply on bin top, draw round, cut to size, hole for suction pipe, hole for sucking pipe, tape in pipes with "duct tape", amd hey! presto! Instant huge-capacity drain sucker-outer. For some reason the interceptor trap was choked up with hundreds of almond stones, and the usual - hm - "stuff".
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>> >> Alas we have a Henry but no George, think one of the neighbours has
>> though.
>>
>> Well, they'll be pleased to lend it to you! After all, they can soon wipe
>> all that stuff off when you give it back....
>>
LOL, yeah I wouldn't borrow one without making my intentions clear :-)
>> I have used a dustbin and a piece of plywood for cleaning out the drains...
>> ply on bin top, draw round, cut to size, hole for suction pipe, hole for
>> sucking pipe, tape in pipes with "duct tape", amd hey! presto! Instant huge-capacity drain >>sucker-outer.
Now there's an idea; I have a spare dustbin and a spare vacuum cleaner in the shed. ..and duct tape...I can feel a Blue Peter moment coming on.
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I want this square filter, to fit this round hole, and I want it done with this:
Failure is not an option, not on my watch.
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Y'all can hire a wet & dry vac from speedy hire for £65 per day, £12 per add. day, I think your idea is the tops FT.
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Yup, three stage consultancy.
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Three stooge consultancy. :-)
John
Last edited by: Tooslow on Fri 1 Oct 10 at 18:46
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I have come across this problem twice.
Once on one of our properties when my tenant phoned me in a panic saying the house was about to be flooded. She wasn't wrong, the water level as 2" below the back door threashold. Our garden at the back is on a slope and it slopes towards the house.
On that occasion I tried with the rods down the gully but to no avail. The soakaway is actually underneath the house we think. If it is that would explain heaps about the damp that house had suffered.
We actually called out a local drain clearing company who sent out a jetter and a sucking truck (those things that call by to empty septic tanks). The bill came in at almost £200 on the nail.
They removed a HUGE amount of mud. We think that the soakaway had just become blocked, or even completely full up with silt. Hence they manage to actually deep clean the soakaway. That was hugely preferable to unearthing it via the living room floor!
The other time was at a customer's house.
I did exactly what was suggested in the first few posts. Hosepipe down the drain as far as I could push it and turn it on. I got splattered and there was much movement within the drain - but it worked a treat. The the woman had exactly the same problem again a few weeks later. It turned out that we had had Autumn in between and the drains were just partially blocked with recent leaf fall. She managed to sort the problem herself simply by clearing out the gullies.
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I had a chance for a quick play yesterday afternoon, between downpours. Built myself a KrappSukka (tm) to FT's recipe, only I used a piece of chipboard I had in the shed rather than doing it properly with ply.
Found the spare vacuum cleaner, an 1800W Bosch, not very old, but only lasted a few months in domestic use due to poor design and manufacture. Repaired with duct tape and powered up!
..two seconds later the big thick plastic dustbin I was using folded in two like a discarded coke can..whoops...maybe too much suction. I'll try building a supporting frame from a few bits of scrap wood and try again.
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"A plastic dustbin?" ("The Importance of Being Earnest")
Great! "Sticky-backed plastic"!
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I don't know how I missed this thread, but at college for the last few weeks we've been covering "above ground drainage systems", ie drainpipes from sanitaryware and from guttering.
I take it the downpipe in the OP's case is from the rainwater guttering? If so, and it's a 30-year-old house, it will feed to a surface water gully rather than a soakaway (unless the house is especially rural). Separate sewers for foul and surface water became commonplace in new developments over 50 years ago. One goes to a STW, the other to the nearest river, hence the need not to mix them up.
We were told that blocked drains are never worth the effort and filth of attempting to clear them out oneself, but should always be tackled by drain unblocking professionals who have the right kit and the knowledge of drain design. They'll make it look easy but save you a lot of effort and frustration.
And I'd fit a birdcage bit.ly/c7HR6J over the outlet to reduce the amount of leaves etc entering the downpipe, especially if the house is near any overhanging trees.
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>> We were told that blocked drains are never worth the effort and filth of attempting
>> to clear them out oneself, but should always be tackled by drain unblocking professionals who
>> have the right kit and the knowledge of drain design. They'll make it look easy
>> but save you a lot of effort and frustration.
>>
>> And I'd fit a birdcage bit.ly/c7HR6J over the outlet to reduce the amount of leaves
>> etc entering the downpipe, especially if the house is near any overhanging trees.
>>
We have lived in the same 1820s house for decades.. with overhanging trees.
Drain unblocking is easy for amateurs if you do it every year whether it is needed or not..
Prevention.
And long ladders make gutter cleaning a piece of cake.. even tho' I HATE heights...
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>>And I'd fit a birdcage bit.ly/c7HR6J over the outlet to reduce the amount of leaves etc entering the downpipe<<
Good idea that Turbot Dave, you can get mesh type guttering guards as well to stop the leaves,
Intersting what you say about separate sewers for foul & surface water, I never knew that.
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>> Intersting what you say about separate sewers for foul & surface water, I never knew that.
>>
Unfortunately the builders of the 1930s houses in our street did not stick to the rules so a lot of roof water goes down the sewer.
The council drain cleaners said a lot of lazy kitchen installers etc direct washing machine / dishwasher outlets into surface water drains.
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>>Unfortunately the builders of the 1930s houses in our street did not stick to the rules so a lot of roof water goes down the sewer<<
Probably the same with our 1936 jobbie, especially as its in Cornwall :)
I have seen detailed plans of our drainage system wih the deeds, so I'll have to 'dig' those out and see what's a'foot.
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>> a lot of roof water goes down the sewer
That's not a problem, apart from the need for a bigger sewage treatment works. It's foul water going straight to the storm drains that's not supposed to happen.
>> alot of lazy kitchen installers etc direct washing machine / dishwasher outlets into surface water drains
Which will now get them a hefty fine, and they are pursued with vigour these days.
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>> a lot of roof water goes down the sewer
That's not a problem, apart from the need for a bigger sewage treatment works. It's foul water going straight to the storm drains that's not supposed to happen. <<<<<
I think that you will find that the big problem is overloading the sewage system with rain at times major rain storms. The overflow then bypasses the sewage treatment and puts the diluted but untreated sewage straight into rivers and streams and or sea.
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When we lived in Tenerife, I used to go for a swim in the harbour at los cristianos because I can do without chlorine,
One morning we had the mother of all storms with almost-rivers running down the roads,
I still went for my swim, even though I was the only one there at 9-00am,
I came down with an almighty sore throat afterwards!
You'd think ole Pedro would have said "Hey gringo, peligro, peligro" (danger!)
Nah, he just thought there goes another stupid Englishman.
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>>
>> We were told that blocked drains are never worth the effort and filth of attempting
>> to clear them out oneself, but should always be tackled by drain unblocking professionals who
>> have the right kit and the knowledge of drain design. They'll make it look easy
>> but save you a lot of effort and frustration.
>>
>> And I'd fit a birdcage bit.ly/c7HR6J over the outlet to reduce the amount of leaves
>> etc entering the downpipe, especially if the house is near any overhanging trees.
>>
Well yes, it's always easier to pay someone else to do a dirty job ;-). Unfortunately at the moment I've got rather more time than money on my hands!
Thanks for the tip on the birdcage Dave, I did think about fitting something like that (ignoring the fact I don't have a ladder), but didn't know what they were called. There was an overhanging tree when we moved into the property in 2001, SWMBO didn't like it so it went, pronto; but there is still a fair bit of moss on the roof which is gradually washing down into the guttering.
I think this surface water must feed into a drain shared with the neighbour, although it wasn't mentioned on the deeds when we were buying.
Despite the serious amount of rainfall over the last 3 days the surface water hasn't started backing up in to the downpipe, so the relatively small amount of gunk I removed from the pipe (max. volume 10 litres) has made a big difference.
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>> but there is still a fair bit of
>> moss on the roof which is gradually washing down into the guttering.
I shoved some gutter mesh up and it helps keep moss out of the gutters and makes them easier to clean too.
Have a google if you haven't seen it before.
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I thought sewer referred to foul water only. I was subsequently told that sewer effectively means pipe, so you can have foul water sewers and surface water sewers.
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Advice requested: drain unblocking - Mapmaker
