Non-motoring > School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: zippy	Replies: 38

New Tue 19 Jul 22 20:18   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - zippy

With viewing screens outside the toilets! www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-news/former-pupil-unhappy-notts-secondary-7337281 OK they didn't show the cubicles but this is so against GDPR the ICO even uses it as an example of what not to do: ico.org.uk/for-organisations/sme-web-hub/whats-new/blogs/installing-cctv-things-you-need-to-do-first/ I feel a lawsuit coming on. I also understand that the pupils were not allowed to question teachers at all. Are they teaching drones or people that are going to question and grow. (My two weren't angels but if they didn't question the teacher's, some of the taught material would have been wrong - including studying the wrong book for English Literature! (There were several other incidents as well such as getting basic science wrong, maths and spelling wrong - which Miss Z corrected and got detention for - I soon put a stop to that - it's like accepting dogma.) Last edited by: zippy on Tue 19 Jul 22 at 20:22 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 19 Jul 22 21:48   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - Bromptonaut

Having been subject to a TUPE transfer I'm working in an environment where challenging my manager is discouraged or forbidden. If you do so you're 'upsetting other staff' and deemed not to be a team player. Not healthy from the point of view of service delivery. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 19 Jul 22 22:44   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - zippy

>>Challenging bosses... It's a crap position to be in Bromp. Years ago we had a manager who insisted staff in a particular department did journeys from A to B in a set time and failure to do so resulted in a rollicking. Not exact figures, but the route was urban and 15 miles, he expected it to be done in 30 minutes including the time to get to the car, park at the other end and walk to the office, and would call you up at the other office to check you had arrived and was not skiving. Of course achieving a real average of 30MPH in an urban setting is almost impossible without breaking the speed limit. No one challenged him as he was keen to dish out rotten jobs and written warnings. One senior colleague who had asked to work on our department whilst caring for a recuperating member of his family challenged him and got "shot down". He did the journey and I am convinced he deliberately put his foot down in front of a police car. He was stopped. Told the policeman why he was speeding. Statements were taken from several employees at the office and destination and the manager was visited a few days later and told in no certain terms that he would be included in the prosecution for speeding because he forced it. The senior colleague took a good early retirement package shortly thereafter and the manager was "moved on". Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 19 Jul 22 22:45   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - Zero

>> Having been subject to a TUPE transfer I'm working in an environment where challenging my >> manager is discouraged or forbidden. If you do so you're 'upsetting other staff' and deemed >> not to be a team player. >> >> Not healthy from the point of view of service delivery. Ah, you are in the private sector now. The rules in that game are you Support your manager publicly and specially to the team, and you and the team slag the crap out of him to his boss. Last edited by: Zero on Tue 19 Jul 22 at 22:49 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 19 Jul 22 22:19   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - Duncan

>> There were several other >> incidents as well such as getting basic .... spelling wrong - which >> Miss Z corrected >> Crikey! Any idea at all where she could have got that talent from? Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 19 Jul 22 22:54   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - zippy

>>Any idea.... Cheeky B****r! Mrs Z. Brains run in the female side of the family. Lots of other incidents including berating the head for telling her she would be lucky to get a "C" in a subject at GCSE when she had taken the exam two years early and got an "A". Teaching herself one subject (Biology) because the teacher was so appalling that she refused to go to class and studied at home and the school library. Last edited by: zippy on Tue 19 Jul 22 at 22:55 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 19 Jul 22 22:24   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - bathtub tom

>> if they didn't question the teacher's, some of the taught material would have been wrong One of my daughters had heated discussions with an English teacher (a doctor) on grammar, he admitted at a parent's evening. I suspect he may have enjoyed them, as he sometimes wondered if he or she were correct. Where's Duncan, teacher's indeed? Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 19 Jul 22 23:00   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - zippy

>> I suspect he may have enjoyed them, as he >> sometimes wondered if he or she were correct. >> I recall from the dim and distant past of my school days, a few teachers who really enjoyed teaching and it was a two way thing - they would expect to be questioned and challenged. They were the lessons we looked forward to because we would be kept busy thinking and learning. Shame there were too few like that. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 07:14   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - Duncan

>> >> if they didn't question the teacher's, some of the taught material would have been >> wrong >> Where's Duncan, teacher's indeed? If I do it, I get told off. If I don't do it, I get told off. Quite seriosly. I think greengrocer's apostrophes irritate me more than anything else. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 07:58   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - BiggerBadderDave

Apostrophes irritate me too, but worse than that is the use of inch marks instead of apostrophes. Jeremy Vine on channel 5 are always doing that. As happens on a lot of shop front signage, Kate's Café, etc. Visual vandalism for a typographer. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 08:46   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - Crankcase

BBD, does that mean what I imagine colloquially are called speech marks should be: 'No, not today thank you.' or "No, not today thank you."? If the former, then a Victorian might have written, 'No, I sha'n't, ca'n't, and wo'n't'. Be interested to know whether it should be ' or "? Last edited by: Crankcase on Wed 20 Jul 22 at 08:46 Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 09:45   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - BiggerBadderDave

That is an issue but not the one I meant. We call it an inch-mark issue but it includes inch and feet-marks. When people actually use foot-marks (for measurements) instead of apostrophes and inch marks for quotation marks. Apostrophes and quotation marks are curly, inch and feet marks are straight. Like here: carsonparkdesign.com/quotation-marks-apostrophes-versus-primes/ Your issues is whether to use double quotes or single quotes. It doesn't really matter, English use single quotes but if there is a quote within a quote, that gets the doubles. Americans do the opposite. But if an editor receives a manuscript all set the 'wrong' way she might not bother changing it, just leaving it the dominant way. It doesn't bother me personally, I work on so many US titles I see it both ways. Inch and feet marks (known as primes) used as quotes make me want to poke people in the eye. Not never taught proper. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 09:55   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - Crankcase

Thanks BBD, that's interesting. Sounds like a nightmare if the Americans do it the opposite way. Is this right, in English English? ‘John said “Pass the Garibaldi biscuits please” to me.’ or ‘John said “Pass the Garibaldi biscuits please.” to me.’ And you thought Duncan was a pedant! I just like to know what's correct. Last edited by: Crankcase on Wed 20 Jul 22 at 09:56 Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 10:24   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - BiggerBadderDave

Yeah, that's the English way. A quote (singles) with a nested quote (doubles). No full point on the nested quote, though... Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 10:44   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - Crankcase

Ta. And no comma after the word said, I guess. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 09:41   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - tyrednemotional

>> >> Quite seriosly (sic). I think greengrocer's apostrophes irritate me more than anything else. >> I'd suggest you don't drive past this "Grocers" here, then. goo.gl/maps/PyskXrmipRHHxu7G7 Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Wed 20 Jul 22 at 09:41 Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 09:51   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - CGNorwich

You surely have tp ask why they went to the expense of installing the cameras. It would not have been done on a whim. My guess was that there was a problem with vaping which is now a huge problem in many schools with children leaving lessons, ostensibly to go to the loo but actually for a vape. The cameras were no doubt set as a deterrent. Now instead of getting on your high horse about privacy you perhaps need to ask whether that was perhaps a reasonable way to address the problem or if not how you would go about it. Perhaps you would do nothing and allow I it to continue to the detriment of the participants and classmates education. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 10:47   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - zippy

>> >> Now instead of getting on your high horse about privacy you perhaps need to ask >> whether that was perhaps a reasonable way to address the problem or if not how >> you would go about it. Perhaps you would do nothing and allow I it to >> continue to the detriment of the participants and classmates education. >> The ICO makes it very clear that CCTV in toilets is not reasonable in most circumstances. Vaping can be probably controlled in many other ways (bag searches or smoke detectors in toilets perhaps). Last edited by: zippy on Wed 20 Jul 22 at 10:49 Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 10:56   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - zippy

Missed the edit... And of course CCTV invades the privacy off all those using the loos and not just those vaping. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 11:43   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - CGNorwich

It does but it a a question of balance isn’t it? Instilling some sort of discipline for the good of all v the human right of not being filmed washing your hands. Hardly the sort of thinking that warrants a legal action. Sometimes you need a senses of proportion in considering these things. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 12:04   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - zippy

>> It does but it a a question of balance isn’t it? Instilling some sort of >> discipline for the good of all v the human right of not being filmed washing >> your hands. Hardly the sort of thinking that warrants a legal action. Sometimes you need >> a senses of proportion in considering these things. >> Well it's not balanced. As the ICO said and as pointed out above, it is not proportional. In many toilets, urinals are opposite sinks for example - it's not right and to be honest a bit peculiar for the school to even consider it to be right and suggests that they whilst they think they are doing the right thing for the sake of the children, that perhaps they have over stepped the mark by a long way here and have probably also done so in other areas. From my experience, good teachers did not need to be despotic because they got the kids on their side. Bad teachers did. Last edited by: zippy on Wed 20 Jul 22 at 12:05 Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 13:11   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - CGNorwich

From my experience teachers need to be respected. Those who attempt to “get the children on their side” are usually poor teachers. All I’m saying here is that the issue is pretty insignificant. The article clearly says that the cameras were in the hand washing area and the cameras have now been removed. It’s no big deal. If you want an issue to campaign about you might wast to look at the trade in vapes especially targeted at sales to children. A health problem for the future. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 13:20   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - zippy

>> From my experience teachers need to be respected. Those who attempt to “get the children >> on their side” are usually poor teachers. >> My experience was that the respected teachers were good teachers who encouraged pupils to grow, not just academically. Boundaries got tested of course, but a good teacher could control the class or pupil with a word or look. Behaviour, in my honest opinion was better in classes that had a good, engaging and fair teacher. From my experience, you get better respect and results from using the carrot more than the stick. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 13:59   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - CGNorwich

It was the term “get children on their side” I was objecting to, not that teachers should be respected. The article seems to be very mountain out of molehill to me. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 15:40   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - zippy

>> The article seems to be very mountain out of molehill to me. >> You have to draw a line somewhere. What next, putting cameras in the cubicles or changing rooms? Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 16:27   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - CGNorwich

You are simply creating a hypothetical issue for effect. The facts as reported are a non issue. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 16:32   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - zippy

>> You are simply creating a hypothetical issue for effect. The facts as reported are a >> non issue. >> I beg to differ. Even the Information Commissioners Office has said that it is not appropriate: " CCTV shouldn’t be running in areas considered private – such as in toilets and changing rooms. In most cases, using CCTV here wouldn’t be fair or proportionate, meaning it wouldn’t be compliant." So the people in charge of DATA, which is what CCTV captures, has said no. So it is an issue. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 16:32   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - tyrednemotional

...let's not get bogged down in detail... Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 16:35   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - Robin O'Reliant

This thread is going down the pan. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 16:57   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - Zero

And we haven't even got to the bottom of it yet. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 17:28   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - Bromptonaut

Maybe the story is tissue of lies? Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 17:34   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - tyrednemotional

..maybe we should just start again with a clean sheet... Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 17:42   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - Clk Sec

This toilet humour is rather vulgar. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 17:44   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - Zero

Its just a wee bit of fun Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 17:50   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - Duncan

It will be over in a couple of shakes. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 19:10   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - Robin O'Reliant

I think it has run it's course now. Time for a mod to perform a dump. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 19:15   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - Zero

Its enough to drive you round the bend Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 19:16   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - Crankcase

I must come back to see if they have deleted the thread next week. I'll make a note in my diary 'ere. Last edited by: Crankcase on Wed 20 Jul 22 at 19:16 Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 20 Jul 22 19:45   School Puts Video Cameras in Children's Toilets - tyrednemotional

..I wouldn't be surprised if it gets deleted. Some of the responses fall well below the ideal standard... Reply to this message | Report message