Mildly affected.
Mrs B is at a Science Ed Jamboree in Leeds on Saturday. Left booking hotels far too late and anything near the City Centre is silly money - £500 for two nights.
Absence of trains seriously limits options for more distant locations and as post event drinks are a feature driving not an easy option.
Found a B&B in my adolescent stomping ground around Guiseley/Menston with pub adjacent. I've got to drive into Leeds to pick her up afterwards. Opportunity to see what the original Harry Ramsdens is like under its new moniker of the Wetherby Whaler...
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>> Opportunity to see what the original
>> Harry Ramsdens is like under its new moniker of the Wetherby Whaler...
>>
Over priced and over rated from my last experience.
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>> Over priced and over rated from my last experience.
Ahh right.
We lived near the original 'Harry's' when I was a kid and eating there was an occasional treat. Get there before midday otherwise there was a massive queue. A meal at Harry Ramsdens's was a an integral part of any coach company's Day Trip to the Dales offering.
Went downhill fast after the company was sold and it became just another fast food brand.
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I see they may well not be the only ones on strike this year. I've read barristers, teachers, civil servants and BA might well follow them.
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>> I see they may well not be the only ones on strike this year. I've
>> read barristers, teachers, civil servants and BA might well follow them.
Thats not going to bring the country to its knees.
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Talk of a General Strike on the radio this morning.
At least for those in the public sector the problem is that this comes on top of wage stagnation back to at least 2008*. That fact, overt government policy in the Austerity era, massively devalues the government's attempts to tell us to 'grin and bear it'.
I left the Civil Service in 2013. When setting up my Pension they used a 3 step process looking at (a) my final salary, (b) in any one of the last three years was better then that figure (helps people who had a good year for overtime) or (c) average of the best three years in the last eight.
If (b) or (c) apply then they're indexed to CPI.
Although there was some revaluing of pay scales in 2009-13 it never improved the max for grade on any scale. My salary for 2005-8, indexed by CPI was several thousand more than the final figure, maybe 15% more.
That was simply a loss of purchasing power crystalised.
The SEO max is still the same now.
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While most of the examples quoted are salaried roles in the public sector the Bar's position is different.
The example I quoted above pales into insignificance compared to the cuts in fees suffered by practitioners working in Criminal Defence.
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> Thats not going to bring the country to its knees.
>>
I didn't say it would.
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What is an SEO expected to do Bromp? How senior is the role (when I was a CO at 18 they were GOD like but I can't say or remember what they actually responsibility wise).
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Had to nip in to a nearby market town earlier and parked in the station car park as it was near where I had to be.
Had a pleasant chat with a railway worker there whilst paying for parking at the ticket office (South Eastern).
We talked about the strike.
I don't know the accuracy of this but he said that:
Three and two years ago they agreed a zero percent pay settlement.
This year, management asked for another zero percent settlement with 2,500 redundancies.
There were many terms and condition changes including, increased night working from 28 to 39 weeks and weekend work from 32 to 39 weeks. For night work they currently get time and a quarter. For weekend work, time and a half. Management want to reduce the rates to time plus ten percent. I haven't checked the figures but he said that's a 15% pay cut on nights and 40% on weekend working.
They also want to fire and re-hire (I have been a victim of this carp) operatives and the new pay rate is £9k a year less than they are currently on.
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That's funny Zippy, I saw a post on Facebook this morning which said almost exactly the same, in same or similar language. The post was from last night and you missed the bit knocking the government at the end, but essentially the same.
Maybe there's a bit of coaching going on. Or something else.
Here is it is, in its entirety.
From someone who works on the railways...
Three years ago we accepted a 0% pay rise, two years ago we accepted a 0% pay rise. But this year they came to us with a 0% pay rise plus over 2500 redundancies, changes to terms and conditions. An increase from 28 weeks of nights to 39 weeks of nights. An increase from 32 weekends worked to 39 weekends worked.
Currently for a night shift we get time and a quarter, for a weekend turn we get time and a half. They wish to cut both of these to time and a tenth. So that’s a 15% pay cut on every night shift and a 40% pay cut on every weekend turn. But they want us to work more of them. This is their modernisation they talk about. Not technology, we embrace technology and have seen more and more of it in recent years. They also wish to fire and re-hire the operative grades and bring them back under a new job title but on £9000 a year less. They also want them to use their own vehicles to get to work sites, this when fuel is at its highest. They will also be pooled when currently they are part of the team. The press are painting this to be about pay above all else. It is not. But now we’ve said sod them we are going to demand better. I wish everyone could see past the government controlled media smear
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Nothing said about the Govt or the travel, but I know the man lives local to the station and the area has always been Conservative so I guess he didn't want to waste time there.
And I will admit - it was on a pamphlet he gave me as well.
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I read something similar about railcrews having to travel a lot more across the country, no pick ups. All done in your own car, with no allowence. However I get the other side revenues are half what they were before covid, how do fill that lost revenue?
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It really becomes difficult to know who to believe - unions, government, rail companies - or whether they are all telling a part of the truth which suits their purpose.
A few observations dtached from media, union or other spin:
- the basic infrastructure is a disgrace - a Victorian legacy not a 21st century transport solution
- volumes declined during Covid (understandably), have not yet recovered, and may never do so
- the rhetoric being deployed is like time travelling back to the 1970s
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Rail unions have been accused of bringing the country to a standstill over archaic working practices that mean menial tasks such as "changing a plug socket" would take a team of nine workers.
Industry sources on Tuesday shed new light on inefficiencies that are costing taxpayers billions of pounds.
Demanding “walking time allowance” of 12 minutes for a one minute walk, specialist teams refusing to share vans, and engineers being unable to stray 500 yards from their dedicated patch are among the working practices that union chiefs are determined to defend, they claimed.
“We can’t roster individuals,” said one industry source. “Let’s imagine you want to change a single socket to a double in your kitchen. “Potentially you’d need an electrician, a tiler and a plumber as your dishwasher waste pipe will need adjusting too.
Alternatively, you could find a competent odd-jobber to do the whole task.
“In Network Rail we can’t roster individuals, only teams and we can’t multi-skill those teams so we’d need to send a team of three electricians, three tilers and three plumbers – nine people to do a job one person could do.
“Eighty per cent of the most common infrastructure faults could be fixed by small, multi-skilled teams.”
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I think there's a fair bit of detail in these sort press release/newspaper reports. And quite often it's a bit of one and a bit of the other, however this 'Alternatively, you could find a competent odd-jobber to do the whole task.' suggests whoever briefed the journo didn't have that much knowledge.
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'such as "changing a plug socket" would take a team of nine workers'
One bloke to do it and eight phone zombies to film it for 'likes'.
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The complexities of plug changing are truly underestimated:
- pre-job site visit to assess the task - "P1ss Poor Planning Promotes P1ss Poor Performance"
- create work plan - H&S, impacted services, access routes, risk assessment etc
- ensure selected operatives are properly trained and check certification
- travel to site ensuring that nominated driver is cleared to carry goods and people
- change plug following agreed plug changing procedure
- independent inspect and test to ensure task completed satisfactorily
- return to base
A single plug failure across the entire railway network causing damage or injury would result in law suits, public enquiries, possible £m in damages, managers and workers fired or retrained.
Easy to understand why it needs a full crew cab to take on so onerous a task!
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www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/12/grant-shapps-says-law-change-could-allow-agency-workers-to-break-strikes
Grant Shapps wants to use agency staff on the railways to replace the striking workers.
This isn't the line they took when P&O Ferries did the same - they condemned it.
Short memories and hypocrites.
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Covid, Ukraine, and energy price increases have conspired to create inflationary pressure. It is a global problem with no immediate magic solution.
Sad reality is that all will lose real spending power. It hits the poorest most as they have limited personal budget flexibility.
The government have done quite a lot - NI reductions, council tax reductions, cost of living and energy grants. Whether this is adequate, fair and reasonable is a matter of opinion.
Inflation matching pay increases are excessive - they ignore the help already given. They simply drive future wage/price inflation - pointless. It is a form of denial pretending we can insulate people against a global problem - get used to it.
The government cannot easily (nor should they) control the private sector but can drive pay in public sector.
Personally I have little sympathy for rail - attitudes and practices are a re-run of the 1980s. They need to accept the world has changed and embrace the 21st century.
If there is money going spare (probably very little) it would be far better spent on other groups.
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>> The government have done quite a lot - NI reductions, council tax reductions, cost of
>> living and energy grants. Whether this is adequate, fair and reasonable is a matter of
>> opinion.
>>
NI reductions - didn't they put them up, just to partly bring them down again? My NI and overall pay-packet is smaller this month then it was same time last year despite a pay-rise.
Council Tax - all my neighbours are retired, asset rich, cash poor. F band houses - they didn't get the rebate.
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Like you I benefit from neither NI reductions or council tax rebate.
But (possibly like you) I feel the pain but can afford to soak it up. Decent pension/salary + larger house. I don't like it, worry for impact on savings, so hope its an inflationary blip, not for the long term.
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I can't see what any opposition party is proposing that is any better than the Cons have done, for all their faults. As Terry said, most of what has happened is simply out of their control and the rest of the world is looking at the same situation.
All of us here have been around long enough to have seen that aside from outside influences like war and disease economics have a cycle, you ride high for a time and then you crash before bouncing back up again. A government of whatever colour can only protect you from so much without making the situation worse and If there is some magic political system out there that means steady and unrelenting growth, nobody has ever found it.
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Sun 26 Jun 22 at 20:39
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>>Short memories
Indeed - I've seen this touted about, but the situation is totally different.
P&O - workforce summarily sacked with no consultation (arguably illegal), cheaper agency workers brought in. Rightly condemned as sharp practice (although P&O held the argument that without they would have gone bust)
Rail - workforce voluntarily withdraws their labour bringing a critical national service to a standstill.
Potential to bring in alternative staff to cover the time when they are 'unavailable' and keep ther service going.
Mind you, exactly where the gov is going to find the necessary trained rail agency workers remains somewhat of a mystery....
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>
>> Mind you, exactly where the gov is going to find the necessary trained rail agency
>> workers remains somewhat of a mystery....
From the agency. Most of Rail Tracks maintenance staff is from contractors.
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Opps Meant "network Rail"
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>> From the agency. Most of Rail Tracks maintenance staff is from contractors.
Who then allow work to be sub and sub sub contracted. Numerous RAIB reports evidence the pee poor adherence to H&S of these people.
Agency staff doing their stuff on the Permanent Way are not likely to be an immediate fit for the ticket office or barrier line, never mind conductor/guard.
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>> >> From the agency. Most of Rail Tracks maintenance staff is from contractors.
>>
>> Who then allow work to be sub and sub sub contracted. Numerous RAIB reports evidence
>> the pee poor adherence to H&S of these people.
Nearly every accident on the railway is caused by people. Union people, non union people, agency, directly employed. BAU.
As far as ticket office staff go? what ticket office staff? my station doesn't have any. Barrier? its a machine, Platform despatch duties? no one there to do it.
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...I should be careful, Z. You've got enough railway experience for Boris to be comfortable with them sending you your call-up papers.
You'll soon be driving rather than filming (or possibly cleaning the bogs at Waterloo) ;-)
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>> ...I should be careful, Z. You've got enough railway experience for Boris to be comfortable
>> with them sending you your call-up papers.
>>
>> You'll soon be driving rather than filming (or possibly cleaning the bogs at Waterloo) ;-)
No-one cleans the bogs at Waterloo. Havent done since the demise of the travellers fare ham sandwich
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 27 Jun 22 at 09:57
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>>Ticket machines...
I hate the ticket machines. They are often broken down and the touch area for the on-screen buttons doesn't seem to match the visual position of the button making them very difficult to use.
When I buy a ticket to travel for work I have to go through a travel agent and they give me a long reference number that I have to type in to the machine. It's much easier to give the number to the ticket office staff.
The local ticket office staff will also give good tips on the best route and pricing options and have saved me a few pounds on personal trips.
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Many, many, jobs have been severely dumbed down over the last 2 or 3 decades in what I would describe a a race to the bottom, and what the government would probably call a transformation to improve British competitiveness, which they now believe they can extend.
Most service jobs have now moved to contracted hours or zero hours contracts for the lower tier with the same low rates paid for night and weekend working and rosters as specified by the employer. This has not IMO generally improved people's lives and this is what they want for the rail industry. Think call centres and retail for example.
Retail (shopkeeping) was once a decent occupation. Now we have the CEO of Frasers, the pride of British retailing, on for a £100m bonus on top of his £1m salary if he can get the share price above £15 for 30 consecutive days in the next 4 years while the majority of employees in its notorious Shirebrook warehouse are employed on temporary contracts through agencies, for a few pence an hour above minimum wage, even though they might have been working there for years. The shop staff are on contracted hours, and frequently rostered for 4 hour shifts so they get no paid breaks.
I'm impressed with Mick Lynch. Here he is demonstrating his superior verbal reasoning skills to Tory MP Rachel Maclean. Despite Maclean successfully proving she was completely wrong (i.e. had lied) Fiona Bruce dismissed the exchange as "going round in circles".
www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9FgKINklYM
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>>Race to the bottom...
Agreed. So much so that traditional who would strip an engine or re-grind a cylinder head have mostly gone.
Re call centres, even these are subcontracted out now with utility companies, mobile phone companies etc having core centres but overflows are handled by subcontracted centres with callers taking calls for several companies (one of my client's does this).
Our call centres staff are paid about £20k to £25k a year and corruption is an issue (as it is with rivals) - staff being paid by crooks to steal personal data.
De-skilling roles within the banking industry de-skills people and makes them cheaper to employ. Multiskilled professionals are no longer encouraged and they now use people to concentrate on simple single tasks. The lost skillsets leave banks and other organisations open to fraud and whilst fraud detection is becoming systemised, it is not a panacea and I have reviewed cases where everyone did their job properly (all the tasks on the checklist were completed properly) but the bank was taken for a lot of money, where someone with a holistic overview of the whole account would probably have spotted the fraud. (A TV production company that leased its assets several times over to different banks.)
As management structures within organisations become flatter there is little scope for building skills and promotion above the low wages offered.
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De skilling roles occurs because technology has taken away the skill required. Anyone of us could drive a modern train, competently and safely on a modern railway after 8 hours instruction.
Including statuary tea and lunch breaks.
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>> Anyone of us could drive a modern train, competently and safely on a modern railway after 8 hours instruction.
Unless of course there was a bus on a level crossing or something, then some might struggle…
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You'd be ok, the rails would keep you away from the platform edges......
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We are all responsible for dumbing down of jobs and incomes. There is no politics attached to it - right and left will chase what they perceive as good value.
Price is a large component of the decision - most folk have needs and aspiration usually limited by affordability.
To survive the private sector has to innovate and reduce costs. Their actions are partly constrained by legislation (eg: minimum wage, redundancy etc).
The public sector are not exposed to market forces. The outdated tends to linger. Good behaviours are often driven by an attachment to public service and integrity.
The rail industry has its roots deep in the public sector, Union rhetoric is a repeat of the 1980s, and the response of the government similar.
There is little argument for greater rail subsidies - the industry needs to change from a Victorian legacy into a transport system befitting the 21st century.
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I know it was before my time, but I can't help thinking that the Beeching cuts whilst undoubtedly necessary, had an element of vandalism to them that perhaps wasn't necessary.
A few examples locally resulted in ripped up tracks, demolished (impressive) viaducts and closed stations and sold off goods yards.
With a view to going green, transporting goods at night on electric rails to local depots for last mile deliveries by road would have been a great green initiative or even for light transport systems with automated trains (like the docklands light railway).
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>> I know it was before my time, but I can't help thinking that the Beeching
>> cuts whilst undoubtedly necessary, had an element of vandalism to them that perhaps wasn't necessary.
Beeching is much understood. Quite a few of his cuts were not implemented, and some he hadn't recommended were. Few of his efficiency and modernisation plans were implemented at the time.
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Beeching made his recommendations in the mid 1960s, when car ownership was increasing rapidly , main motorways being completed, freight increasingly being moved to the rapidly improving road network.
The rail network had evolved to replace the canals in the days of horse and cart. No wonder he produced the report he did.
With hindsight I believe he got it absolutely right - up to a point. Had he a crystal ball he may have ripped up the lines, created tarmac roadways, to be used exclusively for freight and bus/coach traffic.
No need for goods yards at stations etc. Would have (a) provided efficient flexible uninterrupted freight and public transport, and (b)) removed load from existing road networks reducing congestion.
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>
>> With hindsight I believe he got it absolutely right - up to a point. Had
>> he a crystal ball he may have ripped up the lines, created tarmac roadways, to
>> be used exclusively for freight and bus/coach traffic.
And at a stroke would have destroyed the ability of the UK to use containers.
Smart.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 27 Jun 22 at 18:43
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One in four (25%) of containers arriving at UK ports is carried inland by rail.
Most of these are Eurostar.
The use of branch lines cut by Beeching would have close to zero (no pun intended) impact on container traffic.
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One in four (25%) of containers arriving at UK ports are carried inland by rail.
Most of these are Eurostar.
The use of branch lines cut by Beeching would have close to zero (no pun intended) impact on container traffic.
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>> We are all responsible for dumbing down of jobs and incomes. There is no politics
>> attached to it - right and left will chase what they perceive as good value.
We all know that untrammelled capitalism will reduce wages for the unskilled to subsistence level. That is a political issue.
Actually I used the term dumbed down rather loosely. Perhaps I should have said made increasingly intolerable.
People do tolerate them of course, for fear of something worse, probably Universal Credit.
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I guess our doctor needs to pay for his luxury cruise...........
8o)
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Strikes on the railway - Bromptonaut
