| Non-motoring > Carp Day at Work - a get it off my chest moment | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: zippy | Replies: 8 |
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New Thu 28 Apr 22 22:01
Carp Day at Work - a get it off my chest moment - zippy
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I was sent to visit a client that is not one of mine. The bank manager is off sick and the number cruncher for that portfolio is on holiday (my equivalent). £2m overdraft, fully used with other loans up to about £7m and it's payday tomorrow about 100 staff, £250k total for the month. (Details changed slightly to protect the guilty.) I don't do client relationship stuff. It's not my job, I analyse figures on my portfolio of clients, ranging from £200k to £500m and make recommendations as to what we need to do to keep secure as a lender. I also have a small portfolio of clients that I am directly responsible for lending decisions and relationship stuff on my portfolio and I do visit to make sure things make sense but selling and managing the relationships like this is the next grade up and I can't be bothered with it all. I have been over the figures on this one and over the last 7 years the owners have taken over £10m out of the business in dividends and pay. Some idiot at the bank has only taken £50k guarantees from them despite seeing the huge drawings and having several new lends - each one a chance to re-negotiate and insist on meaningful guarantees. Every couple of years the firm gets a new finance director. The old one goes when the owners need someone to blame about the (lack of) performance of the business. The current one has been in place for 3 months! (A high turnover in FD's is one of my biggest red - flags!) My brief, sent to me by email, was to tell them "Absolutely no more money is available. There will be no extension to the overdraft at this time". Apparently the dire situation came about when the payroll file was processed and someone worked out there would be insufficient funds. My boss called me to confirm the email - absolutely no new money. So I arrive, the staff are very hostile. I get shown to the board room and go through pleasantries and down to business. I tell them that with continued losses and lack of investment, in fact quite the opposite, draining the company of cash there is nothing we can do, and the directors should see if they could loan the company some money (I know what their net worth is and I can see how much cash is in the personal accounts that they have with us and the money to pay payroll would barely make a dent). I did try working out if we could stretch the current loans terms - no new money but lower outgoings. There was absolutely no movement from them and they become very abusive. The new FD tries to explain "the banks point of view" and is sacked on the spot. "Go on Feck off, don't come e***** back" were the words used. He picks up his laptop bag and says "Thank Fck!" as he leaves, thanking me for my efforts, his parting shot was; "have a look at the payroll detail". They get very abusive and one of the directors picks up the phone on the board room table and makes a call. He says "The * bank * are * not * paying * up *, tell * everyone * they * won't * be paid". *Every other word was an expletive. He then looks at me and says "don't expect any more payments on the loans". There were also some very unpleasant personal threats. I get back to my car through a throng of very angry looking staff many holding tools. I'm jostled and pushed as they follow me to my car. Luckily I'm reasonably well built but anyone slight could have gone over. I can hold my own in a scuffle, but not one against a dozen or more. I tell them in no uncertain terms that they should look closer to home for someone to blame - pointing out the director's cars with private registrations. There is a huge zagging scratch down the side of my car (it's mine - not a company car). thanks! The owners £120k LandRovers and Teslas, are, of course unmarked. I get in the car drive down the road and park up. I call the office - no answer - everyone is on VM. I send urgent emails to my boss and credit director and then I call the banks emergency incident line - and discover that it's as useful as a chocolate tea pot, despite the personal threats. I do what they suggest - and was going to do anyway - and call the police on 101, only to find out that works phone has blocked the number! So I use my emergency pay-as-you-go that's in the glove box. Explain the personal threats and damage to my car and save for a few platitudes, there is nothing that they will do. Of course they give me a crime number for my vandalism claim for the car. I'm fuming and drive to a bank call centre that I know is near a motorway junction on the way home - it's not a business centre that's the nearest to the client but it's most convenient for me. The receptionist asks for some ID and the reason for my visit and have I read the Banks Covid policy :-) I explain briefly that I need a quiet room for a few minutes to put a report together and make some calls. She calls a manager who pops down and does a few more checks on my ID (it's a secure site so they have to be careful). I repeat my needs and explain why to the manager and she takes me to a small meeting room and gets me a coffee and posh biscuits (they're for proper visitors but I looked like I needed them). I type up a one page report and submit it. I check our panel of administrators and make a few calls. Most are busy but one has availability - I don't have the authority to put them in to action, it's more of a "heads up". I give them the Director's details and I drop an email to the Director to expect a call from them if he wants to appoint. I hope he does. I file a compulsory "staff threated by customer report". Before I log off, I log on to the banking system and check the company's payroll run. Most payments for staff are under £1k, some significantly so. The bulk of the payroll, over half, is going to 3 directors - that's £42k each - for one month!!! My swipe card doesn't work on the meeting room door and so I call reception and she comes and collects me and escorts me to the manager who took me to the meeting room. I thank her for the coffee and bickies and ask if there is anywhere to leave my laptop and work-phone for safekeeping. She has a document safe by her desk and offers to put them there, but suggests that I keep my work-phone on me, just in case the incident line needs to get back to me. Two hours later, I get home to find that Mrs Z has cooked my favourite curry. It's a home concocted beef affair and it's very welcome. I haven't told her about my day as I don't want to upset her. Now I have to decide between now and Tuesday if I want to pick my laptop up again. Right, that's off my chest, I'm off to get a beer from the fridge. |
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New Thu 28 Apr 22 22:22
Carp Day at Work - a get it off my chest moment - sooty123
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| Family business? |
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New Thu 28 Apr 22 22:30
Carp Day at Work - a get it off my chest moment - zippy
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>> Family business? >> Very much so. They used to do a lot of travelling. |
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New Thu 28 Apr 22 23:16
Carp Day at Work - a get it off my chest moment - smokie
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In recent years I have developed strong admiration, oft expressed, for anyone who has to interact with the general public in any way in their day to day job, in any role but particularly face to face. Even people who are quite normal and ordinary (and I mean people I actually know and quite like) feel they are entitled to be rude or offensive at the slightest opportunity. Not much I can say about your day Zippy except the obvious, but I just hope for your own health and well being that you don't get too many like that. |
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New Thu 28 Apr 22 23:38
Carp Day at Work - a get it off my chest moment - Ted
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So sorry to hear about your day Zips. If I read between the lines, I understand the type of person the directors are from, a group I have dealt with in another life, twice involving violence. You don't need all that. As an aside, could you see your way clear to lending me sixpence to mend the shed ? Ted |
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New Thu 28 Apr 22 23:26
Carp Day at Work - a get it off my chest moment - Fullchat
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Nothing like a cathartic release. Knowing the background and what your mission was there is no way I'd have gone on my own. The best form of defence is attack which is the weapon of choice of many of the community that enjoys frequent mobile holidays. I'm not hot on finance issues but clearly the business is being milked dry. Question is how does the bank recover its losses. I take it the Directors didn't actually get their £42K pay packets? Seems someone has taken their eye off the ball. Last edited by: Fullchat on Thu 28 Apr 22 at 23:30
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New Fri 29 Apr 22 00:17
Carp Day at Work - a get it off my chest moment - zippy
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>> Nothing like a cathartic release. >> >> Knowing the background and what your mission was there is no way I'd have gone >> on my own. I've had raging arguments with clients before (and they are usually settled by both sides seeing reason) and going for a tipple and steak afterwards to confirm that there is a difference between business and being a nice person at other times, which I get, but not like this and I didn't know their backgrounds. If I did I would have taken someone with me. >> >> The best form of defence is attack which is the weapon of choice of many >> of the community that enjoys frequent mobile holidays. True. >> >> I'm not hot on finance issues but clearly the business is being milked dry. Question >> is how does the bank recover its losses. >> Long Firm Fraud - though I'm not convinced - buy a company to trade on its good name whilst intending to rip all creditors off. I suspect it was planned to load the company up with loans and basically take them out of the business. Usually there are conditions stopping this and of course guarantees focus directors minds. You get a lot of good co-operation with guarantees but they need to reflect the loan. A £50k guarantee is often enough, but not for a business like this. I wonder if the existing manager had been coerced? (I have sent a financial crime report in.) The administrators will try to rescue the company. That's not going to be successful here so they will liquidate it and the bank have charges over everything so any proceeds of sale will go to them. There may be a trade sale if the administrators can find a buyer in time and worst case ethically is it becomes a pre-pack - it gets liquidated and the existing owners buy it back at a huge discount with no debt. I can't see that happening here. >> I take it the Directors didn't actually get their £42K pay packets? >> Not this month - well unless someone in the bank authorises it. They will be mad if they do because I have filed a financial crime report which means accounts frozen and all payments need to be authorised - if the financial crime team approves it of course. >> Seems someone has taken their eye off the ball. >> Or was coerced to do so. |
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New Fri 29 Apr 22 09:34
Carp Day at Work - a get it off my chest moment - Manatee
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Sounds as if you were dropped in it. If the the relationship manager couldn't/wouldn't handle it then his or her boss should have. And not alone. It rakes up memories. Many years ago I worked in B2B lending/leasing and part of that was sorting out defaults and bankruptcies in the 1980 recession and its aftermath. The ones who complained the most and especially the aggressive ones were always those most in the wrong, often in the "can pay, won't pay" category, and sometimes criminal IMO. It's often straight abuse of limited liability and when the pre-pack trend started later that seemed to me like double abuse in some cases. You'd like to think they'll get a comeuppance but you know they won't. A friend and former colleague of mine did your sort of job until the late 90's and it was incredibly stressful even when nothing was going particularly wrong. Having started his career when there were clerks and typing pools in branches, the bank had got rid of those staff, centralised lending, and issued managers with laptops. Days packed with lending appointments around the region, evenings spent laboriously updating records and reports and, being a conscientious type, Sundays preparing for the following week. He took an early, reduced pension at 47 when voluntary redundancy could be wangled and 'downshifted' for 5 years. He then had a good 15 years of enjoyable retirement and now when he's quite ill with a progressive disease, he says it was the best decision he could have made. It made a huge impression on me - I questioned why he would stop working as a healthy 52/53 year old and he said he knew what he wanted to do and he'd worked out that he had the finances to do it. It was then I formed the opinion that money doesn't matter as long as you don't run out. I can only guess whether that story resonates with you. |
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New Fri 29 Apr 22 06:06
Carp Day at Work - a get it off my chest moment - sooty123
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Very much so. I thought so, sounds about right. |
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