A water leak has been detected at the house that my son rents.
The problem was identified while the whole family were on holiday abroad and the house was not in use by anyone else.
The readouts from the water meter showed an identical volume of water being used each and every day but no taps or anything were in use.
That is as far as the investigation has gone. Everything in the house is being rechecked.
So far, no obvious leaks anywhere. it might be a central heating pipe below the ground floor ?
( I once helped a friend find such a leak by using a screwdriver as a sort of stethoscope )
The volume of water going AWOL might point to a problem between the pavement and the internal stopcock ?
How is the exact location of the leak found? Trial and error or electronics ?
If it is in the tiny front garden is it dig a trench and splice in a plastic pipe ?
If it is under the suspended wooden floor ( covered in fancy wood ) dig it up?
Thoughts?
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Get a professional in to find it - although they may not to be the cheapest, water companies tend to be honest and competent. Don't discount a faulty meter!
They are familiar with identifying the source of leaks.
As the property is rented I think the landlord should sort it out, although they may be a bit dilatory as it causes them no immediate problem. Any rectification work is almost certainly the landlords responsibility and if there is potential damage to the property it is in their interest to sort it out.
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We have a water tank in the loft. Don't go in the loft more than about once a year. Was up last week, faint sound of running water. Ballcock failure.
Perhaps check for something similar?
Also toilets. They can dribble water down the back of the pan 24 hours a day without you noticing, cos the internals wear out. Bit of paper on the back of the pan ten mins after flushing, see what happens.
Been there done that one too.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Sat 19 Mar 22 at 07:43
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The waterboard find leaks in the main, and branch from main to your stopcock by sound. They stick a spike in the ground with a listening cup on the end.
We know its after the water meter, so we turn off the main stop cock in the house. If the water meter stops registering w know its after the stop cock.
Toilets are fav, - as described use the paper trick. Otherwise, use large screwdriver on the pipes and stick your ear on the handle.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 19 Mar 22 at 07:53
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As Terry says finding it may be a job for a professional. Repairing it almost certainly will be. There are though a few diagnostics one can do for oneself.
If the leak is between the meter and the house then it wont stop if the mains stop cock is closed. Conversely, if the leak is in the house it will.
Can water be heard flowing at any point? Presumably an overflow from a toilet or a tank in the loft would be obvious?
If it's hot water or in the heating circuit then is a header tank constantly refilling?
We had such a leak around 2018. Company refurbishing the kitchen tidied up some ham fisted work by the developers (useless) plumber. Unfortunately the connection below the stopcock and under a kitchen cabinet came loose. We could hear it but it was only found after we got the kitchen co back and the kickboard removed that the full scale became clear. No damage as the water was draining below the subfloor.
Once it is fettled if the leak has greatly increased metered usage then check whether the water co will give a leak allowance. We got quite a reasonable sum back from Anglian Water.
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I persuaded the water company to install the meter inside the house - (as I was unsure of the state of the road to house pipework). It made an easier job for the installer, so persuasion was not difficult. Saves any expense for a leak, and provides a a little reassurance for long absences.
OP
If the leak is found to be outside, and the property is oldish, it may be worth asking the landlord and check if it is a lead service pipe. In which case they should replace it. Particularly relevant if young children or pregnancy are involved.
www.nhsinform.scot/illnesses-and-conditions/infections-and-poisoning/lead-poisoning
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>>Meter location
Our meter is in the garage under the house. The water company wanted to place it in the street about 30meters away.
Our neighbour caught them in the act and got them to change their mind, as Sherlock47 says, it only took a little persuasion apparently and his and our house are the only two of ten that are like this.
It's a good job too, because a short while after moving in a contractor for the water board turned up and reported a huge leak - and it was running down the road - coming from our pipes between where other houses meters are and our property on our pipe. It could have cost £100s but because of the amount of water being lost they fixed it gratis.
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I’d lay that it is odds on that it is the lavatory flush. The valve fails to seal allowing water to drain,often imperceptibly, into the bowl
The modern dual flush was introduced to save water but has been a disaster, wasting more water than it saves. Mine have nothing but trouble since we ditched the old siphon flush
www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/sep/29/dual-flush-toilets-wasting-more-water-than-they-save
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sat 19 Mar 22 at 19:39
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4 toilets in this owse. 3 of them are dual flush and never had a problem wivvem.
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I suggest you regularly check them with the toilet paper test. The loss of water is not always easily apparent. Hard water areas are worse affected with scale preventing a good seal.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sat 19 Mar 22 at 22:00
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We're about six years into our new bathroom and on our third dual flush mechanism. The plumber was unable to get a new seal and had to replace the whole cistern last time. Being boxed in didn't help. It cost £lots. He didn't rip me off as it was my son in law ! He showed me the old seal and it had a swelling that let the water through. You could see the ripples in the bowl but next time, I'm just gonna leave it, no meter here !
I had never heard of this system and would have much preferred a regular ballcock...I can fix them !
Ted
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I had a leaking dual flush toilet in our previous property, that got so bad you could see it without carrying out 'the paper trick'.
ISTR I stripped it down, cleaned it out and all was well. Private water supply there, and here but, a leaking flush would flood the soakaway. Been there, done that!!
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When the loss of water is great it does of course become obvious. It’s when it’s comparatively slight and not noticeable that the problem arises as you can lose a lot of water over a long period. When overflows were external you were alerted to any loss by the dripping. A modest loss of water into the bowl is often all but invisible.
The ironic thing is that dual flush was designed to save water. In fact apparently most people always press the big button anyway so negating any benefits over a siphon flush.
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>> The ironic thing is that dual flush was designed to save water. In fact apparently
>> most people always press the big button anyway so negating any benefits over a siphon
>> flush.
And quite a few plumbers dont bother to orient the buttons the right way. (on a lot them they are not fool proof on installation)
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>> When the loss of water is great it does of course become obvious. It’s when
>> it’s comparatively slight and not noticeable that the problem arises as you can lose a
>> lot of water over a long period. When overflows were external you were alerted to
>> any loss by the dripping. A modest loss of water into the bowl is often
>> all but invisible.
Just got round to trying this, got a constant low leak in the upstairs toilet. Cheers I don't think I've heard about this before so would have never thought to have a look. Another job to add to the list!
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"a constant low leak in the upstairs toilet"
Try standing up.
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Anyway if anyone interested, you can buy spares here.
www.toiletspares.co.uk/flush-seals-singular.html
I bought 2 new seals as they were both leaking. It slowed one toilet leak a bit and didn't make much of a difference on the other one even with a new seal.
I'm not sure bar replacing the toilet there's much more that can be done?
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Sounds as though the bit that seals onto the 'seal' probably has a build up of crap (technical term for what happens in a hard water area). Have you tried cleaning with vinegar?
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No not yet, but I'll have a go, could be the seal that fits at the very bottom of the seat. The one that seals it to the actual cistern.
I'll have a look and see if it leaks with flush valve removed.
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We had two broken toilets at the same time. The internals had collapsed on one. Got a plumber out to have a look wanted £218 to fix it ! the other was less of a problem with a broken/failed push button thingy. In the end Homeserve fixed the very broken one for the princely sum of £30.00 ! The second one was fixed with the left over bits from the first. Three says later a flyer arrived from Welsh Water to say they now fix toilet leaks free of charge....typical.
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my seal leaked barely two years back. took it all apart gave all a good clean . been ok since. but only a matter of time, i''m sure
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How is it that dual flush toilets don't seem to have external overflow pipes?
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They overflow internally into the bowl through the upper part of the flush mechanism.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 22 Mar 22 at 13:37
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So if the bowl or its outlet to the drain are blocked there will be an internal flood?
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>> So if the bowl or its outlet to the drain are blocked there will be
>> an internal flood?
Theoretically yes, but you'd notice a blocked toilet outlet way before the flush overflow joins the party.
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>>you'd notice a blocked toilet outlet way before the flush overflow joins the party.
SWMBO did and thought it would be a good idea to give it another flush to clear the blockage that was already causing the toilet bowl to overflow!
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We once had a couple over for dinner and had to stop when we noticed water coming through the ceiling and dripping onto the dining room table. Turned out it was just this - too much loo paper had blocked the outlet and the inlet cistern was doing its periodic glitch thing where it just keeps filling.
The flush overflow literally joined the party!
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I had two single flush toilets with outside overflows. About 8 years ago I had them replaced with identical single flush models, the outside overflows being blocked in the process.
Can they now be re-converted to single flush without needing replacement pedestals, cisterns etc.? New outside overflows could be drilled after temporary removal of the cisterns.
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Sorry for the error but the replacement toilets are dual flush.
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Does the Queen have a Royal Flush?
Your new cisterns probably don't have overflow holes. And the modern siphons have an internal overflow anyway.
Apparently an external cistern overflow was a requirement before 2000.
There's no real advantage to external overflow other than it being easier to monitor, is there? Except I suppose that old style float valves are easier to tweak/change washer and maybe more reliable.
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>> Apparently an external cistern overflow was a requirement before 2000.
There was some issue with risk of contamination of the cistern and water being siphoned back into the public supply. Developers plumber fitted on in our ensuite where an overfilled cistern would cause a float to dump the cistern contents into the pan. The instructions said it required consent from the water provider. I doubt this was obtained and indeed the overflow pipe was left in place so any overfill would actually spill onto the floor.
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>>Your new cisterns probably don't have overflow holes.
My new cistern does not have holes for fixing it to the wall. It just bolts to the pan.
It has some complex internals.
The problem I have with it is very very slow fill. I will have search for the destructions.
It was bought in a hurry ( cheap) from B&Q. it turns out to be a Castorama (Kingfisher owned French DIY chain.
It has extended sides to the base which mikes it look sleek BUT when fitted in a three feet wide toilet I cannot tighten the bolts for the seat. It looks like I need to take the whole thing out in order to re tighten the bolts. That means two screw at the base and disconnect the water supply.
The "developers " who were tasked to split the house into 4 flats where my daughter lives did a very poor absolutely minimal bad job.
One aspect was the toilet cistern.
fitted the cistern and then drilled a hole through the brick wall in line with the elbow fitted on the side followed by a pipe through the wall.
That is when they found the problem and badly bodged it.
The overflow/alarm pipe lined up perfectly with the centre line rear of the 4" soil pipe.
No problem - cut off the pipe so it protrudes just a inch outside . Job done!!!
Years later an overflow occurs but the water is hitting the soil pipe and causing damp on the wall, damp down the outside wall, moss on the soil pipe , paint coming off...
Not easy to see three and a half floors up or hanging out the bathroom sash window.
Not the worse pluming I have seen by far.
e.g same flat we had water meters fitted. 4 x 10mmm bore elbows used to fit it (when water flow is so poor.)
I told them either re do it decently the way I want or remove it.
They sent their "best" guy who did what I wanted to a perfect standard. I have never seen a plumber work to that standard before.
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>> Can they now be re-converted to single flush without needing replacement pedestals, cisterns etc.? New
>> outside overflows could be drilled after temporary removal of the cisterns.
Yes they can, at some expense, but for what purpose? I dont see the need.
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To avoid (or at least cut down) the possibility of internal overflowing caused by a blockage, as described above by other posters.
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Millions of households dont have the issue, its as likely as having a wasps nest block your overflow pipe
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>> Millions of households dont have the issue, its as likely as having a wasps nest block your overflow pipe
>>
How many overflow pipes were drilled slightly angled downwards to ensure water did not run back into the room? Icing up ?
It is easy to see condensate pipes from boilers also bodged.
In our first house when I removed "The Wonder Geyser" ( that appeared to have been unused for possibly decades )from the bathroom the whole flue through two 90 degree bends was stuffed with a starlings nest.
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“It is easy to see condensate pipes from boilers also bodged.“
If possible best solution is for condensate pipe to be routed internally into a drain . Mine collects in a container and is pumped periodically up into the stack in the loft space. It is
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It’s notlikely a blocked toilet would escape your notice! In the event you do have a blockage and to prevent the possibility of a flood just turn off the water supply to the cistern. No need to worry!
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>>It's not likely a blocked toilet would escape your notice! In the event you do have a blockage
>>
Decades ago I got a call from my mother re blocked upstairs toilet.
No funds available and low skill level then so I was left to sort it.
The blockage was below ground level. I do remember a significant fountain of contents I had to clean up when I breached the pipe.
My brothers kids had flushed a cube type 13A 3 way adapter down the pan
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Mine was fitted on Wednesday. It took less than ten minutes.
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>If it is in the tiny front garden is it dig a trench and splice in a plastic pipe ?
My son reports that the water board have fixed it.
The leak was close to the water meter on the house side.
It appears that the cause was a fracture in the pipe that might have been caused when fitting the meter.
A replacement short length of pipe was inserted and then a leak test confirmed all was good.
The test was, all appliances etc switched off, water on at meter then watch the meter for several minutes to check that no usage indicated.
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I suspect I have a ground floor underfloor leak. Before I start to look for a plumber, are they likely to be able to identify such a source with some kind of sensor, the way outdoor pipes are traced, or some other clever gear? Pulling up sections of the floorboards at random would cause great disruption.
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Why have you come to that conclusion? What evidence of a leak do you have?
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Consumption had risen from 38 to 42 over the latest 6-month period with no change of habit and I asked the water company to check on the spot. Their operative first checked that the line a far as the stopcock was sound. With the cock open, he then checked that there were no dribbles from any of the taps and the two toilets in the house. (I had checked that there were no leaks from the radiators.) Since the meter was still registering a flow he assumed there was a leak in the pipeline.
I am trying to get the operative's estimate of how bad the leak is.
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How many litres per hour are you losing? To find out Take 2 metre readings at one hour interval taking care not to use any water in that period including flushing toilets.
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Domestic mains water leak. How to fix it etc. - Terry
