Having gone out for a meal last night, I got to thinking whether the number of 'wine snobs' has changed over the last thirty years or so.
It would be tempting to assume we've become more sophisticated since the dark days of 'Blue Nun', 'Black Tower' and 'Mateus Rosé' - though I notice that these brands are still available on supermarket shelves today (no sign of Paul Masson's Californian Carafes, though....).
However, if people want to buy and drink what they like the taste of, does it really matter?
Would you feel uncomfortable ordering a bottle of Chardonnay or Sauternes if that's what your companion wanted with his or her steak - lest the waiter tutted imperceptibly at the choice?
I think I was guilty many years ago for getting into a stew with wine choices, but now it hardly seems worth bothering about.
"A bottle of your second-cheapest wine, please", works most of the time....
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At the moment I have about 15 bottles of wine at home.
The value ranges from about 3.99 to 35 quid. White, Red, Rose, Sparkling.
Drink what you like, according to the meal, the time of day, your mood, the moment.
In Palace Zero we have more or less dumped the over-oaked over fruity New world wines for the traditional growers.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 26 Sep 10 at 23:10
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In Palace BBD we have an 8-bottle rack mounted on the kitchen wall - all empty of wine and full of fruit juice so the mother-in-law won't nag about how much we really drink. The real stash is located in the office and bought by the 5-litre cask - as cheap as poss from Lidl.
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>The real stash is located in the office and bought by the 5-litre cask - as cheap as poss from Lidl. <
Absolutely - except our house red is 6.99 a 5-litre cask from Leaderprice. Oc Merlot. Excellent.
A few years ago a waitress in a hotel restaurant in Mirepoix told me that, in France, wine 'snobbery' is a macho thing and I think she's right. Women in France seem rarely to be involved in the rituals of wine buying. However, I don't believe the average Frenchman knows much about wine.
I am lucky to have a (French) friend who really is an expert and his most important piece of advice is, whether you are buying to drink now or to lay down - don't pay more than 8 euros a bottle.
Last week I spent a very enjoyable Sunday afternoon on his balcony, watching the gigantic carp in one of his lakes, and drinking his '95 and '98 (better) Pecharmant. If you can find that on the shelf in the UK for less than 10 quid a bottle I wouldn't hesitate.
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>> Drink what you like, according to the meal, the time of day, your mood, the
>> moment.
Yep, sounds like what I've settled on too :-)
Thankfully, I've not witnessed much glass-swirling / slooshing / slurping / air-through-teeth pomposity for quite a few years now! Too much risk of spillage...
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Totally agree.
SWMBO goes dewy-eyed over Mateus, but we both like new world cheapies. I've tried some expensive plonk, but in a blind taste test I doubt if I'd be able to recognise it.
In Portugal we bought a bottle for a Euro. At that price we just had to try it. It wasn't good. We were warned off Cliff Richard's stuff.
We always bring back as much (Don Simone?) Sangria as we can in those one litre cardboard containers. We reckon it's great at hot Summer barbecues. Although Pimms slips down nicely as well.
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Nicole is currently having a Prosecco phase.
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"Nicole is currently having a Prosecco phase"
Hope it passes and you get your leg over again soon
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Nah it costs me less to keep her in prosecco than it does to get my leg over.
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>> Nah it costs me less to keep her in prosecco than it does to get
>> my leg over.
I bet Woody Allen is envious.
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Remember Hirondelle, available in "red" and "white" to accompany one's prawn cocktail, steak, and black forest gateau?
Not much wrong with the wines you mention, at a price and if you like them. I didn't think much of Piat d'Or when I won a case once.
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...prawn cocktail, steak, and black forest gateau...
Remains one of my favourite meals.
...I didn't think much of Piat d'Or...
It wasn't wine in the truest sense of the word, more a grape-flavoured alcoholic drink.
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When I was a student, a bottle of 'Lutomer Laski Riesling' could make you a hit with the ladies. Bowled over with your sophistication, they were :-)
Last edited by: Old Sock on Sun 26 Sep 10 at 23:43
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SWMBO is the wine lush at Chateau Ted.
I stick with beer mostly although I did win a bottle of Newtown Rose...12.5% in a raffle last week.
Welsh stuff...but who knows ? We mostly stock up from the 3 for £12 at Asda.
Hardy's, Blossom, etc. Quite like Chenay in the wobbly bottle. Got about 20 bottles of various in staock together with about 40 bottlees of beer.....but only the pound a bottle offers.
Not being ripped off for £1.59 at Morrisons for Pedigree when Lidl do it for a quid !
Have about 12 litres of home bewed bitter nicely maturing in the garage as well.
Makes us sound like alkys but we're not. Some days we can last minutes without a snifter !
A great friend of mine is a real wine expert with a large, quality collection. He pooh-poohs another , mutual friend who buys from a wine club saying that's the easy way.
The secret is to search out and buy wines you really enjoy at a minimum price.
Wifey prefers spritzers now so no point in buying expensive whites. had an Italian meal out tonight and I enjoyed a very large glass of red for a change from Peroni...nice.
Ted..Hic.
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>>
>> A great friend of mine is a real wine expert with a large, quality collection.
>> He pooh-poohs another , mutual friend who buys from a wine club saying that's the
>> easy way.
>> The secret is to search out and buy wines you really enjoy at a minimum
>> price.
Most people here go on holiday over December, and descend on the coast, so when we have many upcountry friends 'down' we organise a wine-route tour, sampling and buying a few cases here and there.
The other great appeal is the plethora of magificent driving roads on some of the routes.
And as a result the 'dedicated driver' spot is one which is much sought after... you can tipple if you like, I have no problem driving your WRX/RS4 etc etc etc for you!
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Banking brother is into wine in a small way.
He's picked some good 'uns off the list at various four-star hotels we've dined in over the years.
Equally, some have been unremarkable, and paying a lot of money does not guarantee a memorable wine.
I've bought the occasional bottle from a supermarket for consumption at Iffy Towers or at the caravan.
Usually pay between £5 and £8 and am usually mildly disappointed.
Drinking wine at home doesn't do it for me.
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I very much like Rioja, a certain supermaket had a taste the difference one which I bought in Calais - excellent and there is a good grower called Campo Viejo. My partner and I tend to drink rose when we are out and I go along with whoever likes the J P Chenet in the wonky bottles.
Years ago I bought some very decent claret but due to domestic turbulence it did not get cellared properly. Last week I took a bottle of 1983 claret to my local restaurant where they know more about wine than I do; they sampled it at thought it perfectly mdrinkable and not "off" and not affected by the lack of temperature controlled storage. I now have my fingers crossed for the condition of another cae I have which cost me £170 and, if in good condition, is worth £5000. It will defray the costs of a new gas boiler and leave a lot over for a lot more Rioja!
When buying in UK I don't spend more than £8 a bottle but look for bottles at the price which are reduced or on offer ie better value
Last edited by: Perky Penguin on Mon 27 Sep 10 at 08:15
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>>(no sign of Paul Masson's Californian Carafes, though....).
Nor of Rocamar red, rose, sweet and medium dry, in bottle, litre, and 1.5 litre sizes.
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Thread drift...
Is Scotsmac still around. 99p a bottle in the mid 70's!
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...in bottle, litre, and 1.5 litre sizes...
I have largely happy memories of getting drunk in the afternoons in a friend's office in Shepherd's Market, Mayfair.
We used to drink Peter Dominic's own label red, which came in screw top bottles.
It was the early 1980s, and the screw top meant the bottle was easy to open for office workers - and vagrants who might not carry a waiter's friend.
I'd not been in London long, and on one of my trips to the off-licence I was propositioned by a prostitute just off Curzon Street - middle of the afternoon it was - I was quite shocked.
Screw tops no longer indicate plonk, some makers of good wine use them now because they produce a consistent seal.
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I am quite happy with the Asda 3 for £10 type wines. When in France I usually buy cheap and most times will find one that appeals.
My dad is a bit of a wine buff and on special occasions he usually brings out wines like Amarone or such like and I just find them far too harsh a taste.
Each to their own..
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Like PP I too am a fan of flavourful fruity Rioja (and Merlot and Shiraz and Claret and OK - well any half decent wine ) .
I am not a wine snob and will try anything once . Wine does not have to be expensive to be acceptable.I find something I like and will buy a case or two.
Chateau Helicopter kitchen and garage is stocked with around 2/300 bottles at any one time ranging from expensive Chateau Margaux for special occasions to very gluggable supermarket wines such as the Macguigan Estate reds at Sainsburys... Chilled Zinfandel rose'is very nice on hot summer evenings .
We also have a range of excellent dessert wines , Chateau Jolys is my current favourite and friends have just brought us back a couple of Ice wines from Canada to try .
Worst wine experince in the Swan Hotel in Shanghai - it was so dry it made my mouth pucker...
Best wine experience - formal dinner in my sons college which is reputed to have the best cellars in Cambridge, different wines for each course and every one excellent with a cracking 25 year old port to finish off...
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Heh heh. You guys are in the wrong place.
Herself has been getting some pink Cotes du Rhone (sorry no accents) from the local super U at 2.25 Euros. We both like it and it's 13%.
I don't drink much wine as a rule but I drink more here.
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AC - is Super U a French supermarket chain? I shall be in Calais next week on a wine hunt and would welcome any info re Super U. I shall otherwise finish up in Majestic Wines, who are OK. Sainsburys shut their Calais wine store in June so the choice is down a bit.
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Yes it is. Everything but (some of the) the wine is expensive though.
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I didn't know whether Super U was a national chain or a local one. It doesn't seem that expensive by British standards but I am not a systematic shopper.
To revert to the OP, it's all right to be a wine snob if you know what you are talking about, and one has to remember that some people do. However language is a great bottleneck when it comes to describing subtle tastes and scents. And it takes money and time and fine senses to become an oenophile worth listening to. I'm very far from being one and I don't know any.
Wine can be very robust stuff. I've told this story before, but once tasted some red wine that had been on a high shelf in a restaurant in Yaba, Lagos, Nigeria, in 80-plus temperatures, perhaps for a year or two. It was Russian, and surprisingly good.
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>> I didn't know whether Super U was a national chain or a local one. It
>> doesn't seem that expensive by British standards but I am not a systematic shopper.
>>
We have tended to use Super U in the past - found them to be a perfectly acceptable alternative to going to the local E Leclerc/Intermarche/Carrefour hypermarket. Reckon they are a bit cheaper than Champion.
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Interesting programme on Beeb a few weeks ago re E numbers and flavourings. A collection of real wine experts (reviewers and buyers) were given red wine to taste and comment on. What they did not know was that what they were drinking was decent white wine with a tasteless colouring in it! As one they came up with all the good buzz words about red wine = chocolate and pepper and rich berry tastes, long on the palate with a lingering finish etc. It just goes to show that one should drink what one likes and when one likes it!
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...What they did not know was that what they were drinking was decent white wine with a tasteless colouring in it!...
I recall the makers of Piat d'Or admitted the red version was the white one with colouring.
People see white and instinctively think 'light' and 'sweet', they see red and think 'rich' and 'fruity'.
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>> It was Russian, and surprisingly good.
But I have just remembered that my father's last bottle of Chateau Canon, 1965 I think, was spoiled by being kept under a child's bed in Ladbroke Grove for several years. Big disappointment that.
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This may be a bit late but, on our summer holiday in France we found some perfectly drinkable wines in Super U.
There was a red Vin de Pays D'Oc called Les Ormes de Cambras. We bought the Cuvee Reservee version and it proved perfectly acceptable. For added sophistication it came in 5 litre boxes as well as the more normal 75cl bottles. As for whites, we do like a nice Loire Sauvignon Blanc and they did a Touraine called 'Caves de la Tourangelle'. It was made by a company called Famille Bougrier and Super U had another of their Touraines which was good too.
The red should be available nationwide I would have thought but the Touraines maybe not, we were near the Loire Valley so maybe the selection of 'local' wine was greater there. None of the three mentioned were more than €4 a bottle.
If you end up in Majestic they do have a reasonably priced Loire Valley selection sold under the 'La Grille' brand which is good everyday stuff. About £7.00 a bottle here but less in France I would imagine.
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I have one rack of bottles of 'good stuff' bought by my husband who really did know about wine and which ones to keep. Unfortunately, I don't - although I enjoyed drinking what he bought ;-) Some lovely Crose-Hermitage (the co-operative there has an English Vintner - a woman at that - with 300+ Frenchmen bosses). There also are some bottles of Spanish Tempranillo Gran Reserva 2000 - which I have no idea about. Those I have not breeched yet as I need to find out which ones need a few more years in the rack.
The other rack has a variety which we are slowly working our way through ... although I have not yet opened a bottle when on my own, the day might come. Particularly enjoyed a couple of bottles of shiraz from Ian's part of the world.
.*******
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Iffy
>>>Banking brother is into wine in a small way.<<<<
having read that i was disappointed when I continued reading.
In the SE that would mean that he has bought, (at least), a chateau with winery in Southern France.
Are things different up north?
:)
Last edited by: pmh on Tue 28 Sep 10 at 07:38
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...In the SE that would mean that he has bought, (at least), a chateau with winery in Southern France...Are things different up north?...
Banking brother is too honest and straightforward to palm enough money to buy chateaux.
He only makes a lousy grand a week on a salary from one of the major clearers.
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>we organise a wine-route tour, sampling and buying a few cases here and there.
We used to do that whenever we visited Cape Town.
In addition to the very good wines we also found a place that made it's own cherry brandy (very popular with the ladies) and a farm that made witblits. The guy claimed that he was one of the few remaining individuals licensed to make the stuff. I think he has his logo on the side of Space Shuttle fuel tanks now.
Kevin...
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>> When I was a student, a bottle of 'Lutomer Laski Riesling' could make you a
>> hit with the ladies. Bowled over with your sophistication, they were :-)
>>
We must be the same age :-0))
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>>if people want to buy and drink what they like the taste of, does it really matter?
Not in the slightest. Anybody spending money on something the taste of which they don't like is a fool. If you want to drink sauternes with salt beef or claret with clafoutis then go ahead.
Anybody who thinks the waiter is tutting at them needs to go on a self-esteem-boosting course. They're paid to do what you ask; if they don't then tell them to.
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Anyone know whether Tesco still do bottles of 'Great with Fish' or Great with Chicken'?
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I think they still do "goats du roam"
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>> ...."goats du roam"
>>
Do they "Piat d'Or", or from a great height?
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Living in the "New World" Perth Swan River estates 30 min Margaret River 2 hrs, we are happy to drink local but after a couple of trips to UK we found the same wines in Asda / Sainsbury much cheaper. Not sure about wine snobbery things are changing as wineries realise they have to sell to everbody, screw tops, chilled reds, plastic bottles at public events. One pointer in Perth is the resteraunts that serve degustation menus (wine with each course) the top menu is generally Euopean wines and secondary menu local Oz.
For info, plastic bottles are served at outdoor events hosted by vinyards. Most snobbery I have seen is Asian guys smelling, swilling and slurping the most expensive wine on the menu regardless of time of day, food or company..... re-reading the last sentence mmm maybe I am a bit of a snob or just dead jealous.
jim
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I was in a work wine club in late 1970's when we chipped in 50p (I think) a week subscription and every Tuesday lunchtime the 5 or 6 of us (so only a small glass each) would consume a bottle. We had seriously pricey stuff (from accumulated subs) and even stuff like Retsina brought back from members' holidays. We'd comment on the wine, take notes and pretend we were experts.
What did I learn ?
30 years on.....we only ever buy wine at 3 for £10 in UK and in France the limit is €3 a bottle for usually rather better stuff.
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And I hope you still leave the Retsina on the shelf...
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I'm usually on the 'James May' side of wine tasting. If it tastes alright, I'll drink it. If it tastes like Toilet Duck, I'll say so. What I hate is all that pretentious gob from so-called experts about 'fruity undertones of wild strawberries with a multi-dimensional hint of autumn leaves'.
Since taste is a very individual thing, I detest people telling me what something tastes like and what's good or bad. Its all their opinion and nothing more! A bit like all these food critics that currently populate the TV at the moment.
I honestly don't think I could tell the difference between a £4 bottle of plonk compared to a £34 bottle.
Give me a £3.99 bottle of Merlot from my local co-op and I'm happy.
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Many years ago someone, on another un-named motoring forum, promised to send me a list of recommended South American wines. Never got it though ;-(
He was living in Brazil at the time.
Kevin...
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Chilean wines are easy to research and here is a link to South American wines in general
www.thewinedoctor.com/regionalguides/southamerica.shtml
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Wine "snobbery"! all those names, all those labels! thats all your paying for! you`re all wine "snobs" !!(better insert a smiley! ;-) ) whats wrong with making your own? far more satisfying!, just as good, if not better on occassions, and saves you loads. I`ve made batches that would rival the best! (and some that would compliment fish n chips) but proves apoint, money doesn`t always mean quality!
At the moment i`ve a luvly blackpuddin an blackberry on the go - should be ready to sample bout yuletide!
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>>I very much like Rioja, a certain supermaket had a taste the difference one which I bought in Calais - excellent and there is a good grower called Campo Viejo.
>> Perky Penguin
I'm fond of Rioja, too, and have sampled Campo Viejo, although I normally make do with three for a tenner or discounted wines at £3.99 from Chateau Sainsbury.
Never seen Rioja on offer, though.
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No snobbery here either. Can't drink red or plain white so go for a sparkling white in the £5-£8 range... not Cava though. Drink it with all foods.
Always 3 or 4 bottles in the pantry... if we want more we go 3mls to Tesco and buy it.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Tue 28 Sep 10 at 08:09
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ClkSec The same supermarket who say one can taste the difference often have expensive Rioja 50% off and and another where every little helps has this tinyurl.com/34mk8pf and they are also selling Campo Viejo which can be hard to find
Last edited by: Perky Penguin on Tue 28 Sep 10 at 08:16
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Very helpful of you. Thanks PP.
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I'll drink any wine if I enjoy the taste, and as long as it falls into the sub £10 category. (Big spender)
I get annoyed more at 'meat snobbery', if I want my steak well done I mean I want it cooked though, not charcoaled and with lots of tutting and eye rolling from the waiter!
Same goes for lamb, tuna or anything else that seems to becoming more trendy to eat practically raw.
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>> I get annoyed more at 'meat snobbery', if I want my steak well done I
>> mean I want it cooked though, not charcoaled and with lots of tutting and eye
>> rolling from the waiter!
>>
Well said that man!
Top thread, this. I don't know anything about wine unfortunately - I'm just a beer drinker - but I have to say it is great to read all these no-nonsense and unsnobbish views.
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Alas, I am, inevitably, going to disagree.
Tuna steaks have to verge on underdone, otherwise they have the consistency of dry blotting paper.
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Alas, I am, inevitably, going to disagree.
I am too. Really good steak, well hung, is perfectly all right 'au point' (pink in the middle) or even 'bleu' (charred outside, bloody inside). But it all depends on the meat. And the good stuff isn't cheap either, especially in London.
We are taking some kind neighbours to dinner on Thursday in the Local market town, to a resto that specialises in barbecued meat or fish done before your very eyes using old vines as charcoal. Even so I doubt if my teeth will be up to brochette de boeuf, tasty though it would be. It's a PITA getting old. But 'old age isn't for wimps' as my sterling late mother-in-law said in her nineties.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 29 Sep 10 at 01:01
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I utterly agree on meat snobbery; The correct way to cook a steak is exactly the way I want it done, when I am paying you to do so.
Why on earth a restaurant should think that their belief as to how something should be served is more important than the views of the person paying to have it served is beyond me.
It is, of course, their decision but as always in business you pay for that right - make their own decision, lose that customer and his revenue. Whether or not they made an approriate decision will no doubt be judged by their revenue figures.
However, with meat most of us tend to know what we want, what we like and what we're likely to get.
The difficulty with wine, or at least my difficulty, is that I have little idea. My wife is the wine expert, so if we're out together I'm safe. But if I am out without her and they have neither Casillero del Diablo or some Pinot Grigio, then I'm stuffed. And nothing winds me up faster than some supercillious little wine waiter, who is afte rall only being paid to make my life nicer, look down his nose at me.
There are a few restaurants we can't go back to.............
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So does that mean I can now drink my Brouilly chilled without being told off?
Pat
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You are paying for the priviledge of drinking it exactly as you wish to and anybody who tries to look down upon you for that should be slapped.
hard.
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Google "save for well done", Snakey. Nothing trendy about it - good cuts of meat have always been cooked for just long enough to render them safe. You'll be telling us next you order cappuccino after dinner.
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I went to dinner with some yanks once, and when the order came the variance in steak requirements was vast
one wanted it "Just stunned"
Another " wipe its a-rse and cut the horns off"
A request for "cremated"
and a final "I want it cooked till you have to call the fire department"
What's wrong with medium? Brown on the outside with a thin strip of red meat in the centre.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 28 Sep 10 at 13:41
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The trouble with medium, Z, is that the twin glories of a good steak are the caramelized crust and the succulent deep-red centre. Any brown meat between the crust and the red tends to be dry, having been cooked as its own juices boiled rather than by direct contact with the hot pan or grill.
Ideally the steak is cut thick enough to acquire the crust without encroaching too much on the centre - a good reason not to buy from supermarkets, who cut theirs so thin that it's cooked through before the crust has had time to form.
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>> Same goes for lamb, tuna or anything else that seems to becoming more trendy to eat practically raw.
I like my steak medium rare, assuming it's a US style strip or ribeye, reasonable size and properly cured. I once had a prime rib 32oz ordered for me. Slow roasted for half a day and a great piece of meat though I don't think I even ate half of it. At the other end of the scale a tuna tartar in Florida, very lightly seasoned was one of the most amazing things I can ever remember eating.
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These days in France if you order steak tartare the waiter - sometimes the proprietor - tends to ask a lot of questions about if you know exactly what you're getting, then about your state of health.
I love it, but I was ill after the last one...
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I'm sorry Snakey that you see fit to ruin the taste of steak by charring it to a cinder..for me it has to be sealed on the outside and rare in the middle but each to his own....
I expect the meat to have been properly hung for at least three weeks , virtually black - not this bright red stuff you get in the supermarket
I had a very fine ribeye in a new restaurant in the town only a couple of weeks ago.
Tuna steak has to be as fresh as possible and the best I ever had was in a cafe in the fishing harbour of a place called Barbati on the Costa de la Luz where the Tuna was straight out of the sea and into the pan.....yummy.....
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>> I'm sorry Snakey that you see fit to ruin the taste of steak by charring
>> it to a cinder..for me it has to be sealed on the outside and rare
>> in the middle but each to his own....
Thats my point - well done doesn't mean burnt to a crisp, it means cooked until the juices run clear and no blood is dripping across my plate!
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Have I ever posted my story about French home cooking? Had dinner once with an old right-wing Africa hack from whom I was buying a stove. Despite differences of outlook we got on well.
As dinner time approached he unwrapped a frozen duck, floating in water in the sink to defrost, and put it in an oval earthenware oven dish. After thinking for a moment he poured a bit of water over it and stuck it in the oven. Shortly afterwards, as we finished the first bottle of wine, he took the duck out and cut an experimental slice. It looked raw but I refused to say I didn't think it was ready. I insisted that he as the Frenchman was the one who knew. He jeered at me, saying he knew that we English don't like bleeding meat, but put the duck back in the oven and heated up some frozen peas.
When we ate it it was still pretty raw and not all that nice, but by then we were finishing the second bottle so it didn't seem to matter really. Conversation after dinner took us through well over half a bottle of Famous Grouse by way of digestif. Took me ages to find my way back to where I was staying, Paris visibly lurching about and the Skoda's nose weighed down by the pretty enamelled stove. Headache next day too.
French cuisine... don'tcha just love it?
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>>Meat snobbery: my right to eat my meat as I wish
Indeed, but the waiter may be able to suggest that a different cut of steak would be better suited to being butterflied and charred.
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The first time I had gone to see that guy about the stove it was late in the morning. He offered me a drink and I accepted a beer, saying it was a bit early for me to have a drink.
He replied: 'Personally I drink all the time. Not a lot, but all the time.'
It does tend to mount up though. Normally I don't touch a drop until 6pm. Fighting off alcoholism, people often say disapprovingly.
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I watch and enjoy Mad Men but I'm bewildered by the amount of drinking that people seem to do in the course of working day. The Ewings of Dallas were similarly thirsty, I remember, but to someone who began work in 1989 and who has never had anything stronger in the office than a liqueur chocolate at Christmas, it's a mystery how anyone could drink like that and still function. Can those here who were at work before 1980 tell me if it really happened like that?
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In 1974 working in central London it would be
4 pints of lager at lunchtime, 6 - 7 pints lager between 17:30 - 22:30, 1/2 bottle spirits 22:30 - 02:30
5 days a week, for 6 years.
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>> 5 days a week, for 6 years.
And we all have cause to be grateful for the mellow wisdom that gruelling regime produced, Zero.
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A cousin of mine worked for the GPO on the telephone side on the Embankment in London.
He would have two or three pints with colleagues every lunchtime, and the same again after work, before getting the train from Liverpool Street.
On arrival at home, it was the classic Jerry/Margot pre-dinner snifter with the wife.
He used to stop in at weekends for a rest.
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I seem to have more or less given up alcohol. I say more or less because I'm not a total abstainer and still enjoy a cold beer or a glass of wine but only if I'm in public so to speak. Hardly, if ever, drink in the house now. Never seem to want more than three consecutive drinks though in any event. Can't remember the last time I was actually drunk, must be at least 20 years ago, quite probably more.
I did practice quite hard with it in my youth but even then can't say it was ever my favourite pastime. I just found that it limited my options.
Alcohol affects people in different ways of course. Some find it calming, some find it helps them to socialise, some become obnoxious while others become temporariliy joyful or depressed. In the main it just makes me tired I'm afraid. I can honestly say that I have far more fun sober than when drinking and for the most part I prefer my friends and family when they are sober too. Some of them undergo major personality changes when they drink and rarely for the better.
Each to their own of course but the fairly peculiarly British habit of setting out to get drunk as opposed to setting out to enjoy a drink has always left me a bit puzzled to be honest.
I do like Chablis though.
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I have only come across the 'straight after work' drinking culture in London.
It may be because most people are on public transport, and by the time you get home, it's too late to come out again.
I did it for a few years, two or three pints every night around Soho/Mayfair.
Never been a lunchtime drinker, even when it was acceptable.
Can't function in the afternoon after a drink.
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The pubs in London used to heave at lunchtimes, it was a job to get inside some, let alone fight your way to the bar. Ditto, in the evenings between 5:30 to 7:30,
Changed a lot now.
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Good points, Humph.
It was always a bit of an eye-opener to be the 'designated driver' on the way back from a night out.
"Glad I'm not that obnoxious when I'm drunk", always sprang to mind :-)
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 29 Sep 10 at 01:00
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...but the fairly peculiarly British habit of setting out to get drunk as opposed to setting out to enjoy a drink has always left me a bit puzzled to be honest...
Some Scotsman you turned out to be.
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When I worked in London in the early 1970s, we started drinking at 6pm after work.. then rolled back to the hotel for 8pm, changed, restaurant 1 bottle of wine (each).. About 8 pints/night.
Nothing compared to the stockbrokers and accountants of the time. The big ones had their own in office chefs and 3 course lunches...12.30 to 2.15 just in time for NYSE to open at 2.30pm.
Bit different now...
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Not all Scots are drunks just as not all English are obnoxious, not all Irish are good at building and not all Welsh can sing. It's just a impression people sometimes mistakenly get due to the behaviour of some...
:-)
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...Not all Scots are drunks...as not all English are obnoxious...
True, true, but few things are as attractive to me as a bit of racial stereotyping.
Obnoxious, eh?
Can't argue with that. :)
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Oh it's not all of them by any stretch. I've met quite a few who seem perfectly pleasant people..
:-)
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Obnoxious? It's the only thing Iffy and I have in common!
Oh yes, and probably Z too:)
Pat
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The hardest thing to adapt to when leaving the UK was not being able to have a couple of pints at lunchtime. My best mate was my business partner and we had a pie and a pint every lunch time no matter how busy we were.
I love the pub culture in the UK, especially London, I really miss it.
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>> I love the pub culture in the UK, especially London, I really miss it.
>>
I agree, provided that it is kept to just lunchtimes. Then it is a great break from the workplace in a generally convivial atmosphere.
What I don't like is where people forget to come back after lunch. Thankfully this practice is on its way out post-credit-crunch.
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Last tuesday on a friends recommendation I went to a local Netto and bought 4 cases of Oyster Bay Sauvignon Blanc at £4.99 a bottle. It was lovely stuff and went back today for another 4 cases. Sadly sold out.
Oh well. Back to Booths for a selection of their beer offers @ £1.00 a bottle instead.
No discriminaton here in North Yorks.
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>>What I don't like is where people forget to come back after lunch. Thankfully this practice is on its way out post-credit-crunch
That used to be rife when my missus worked in the Inland Revenue who operated the most flexi flexi time system known to man!!
Regularly went out to lunch and as long as you contacted your boss before core time started in the afternoon to say you weren't coming back, then that was fine!
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As regards buying, I have a simple guide. If it's red, it must taste like Ribena. If it's white, it must be Chardonnay. If it's pink, avoid it: rosé is only for people who don't like wine but think they should drink it.
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You peasant, I cant think of anyone less deserving of a lottery win.
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...I cant think of anyone less deserving of a lottery win...
Are all the mirrors cracked in Zero Palace?
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That take me back to my Revenue days, Bobby. Every Friday, lunch would start at 11.30am on the dot. Quick sandwich then down to the pub for three, sometime four pints, then roll back to the office for 3pm. One hours 'work', then back to the pub.
Happy days, but I would (rightly) be sacked for that sort of behaviour these days.
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When I worked at BAe Warton in the 80s the middle management dining room served a free lunch with free lager, cider and sherry. As others have said, wouldn't happen today plus would be treated as a benefit in kind and be taxable
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Actually, free or subsidised lunches are one of the few things that don't count as a BIK. Give them time though, I'm sure it's under review.
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Like free parking at your place of work?
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>> Like free parking at your place of work?
It can and does count as a BIK under certain circumstances, and free food and drink, likewise, can count as a Bik under certain circumstances. (you can also claim tax relief for it as well under certain circumstances)
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Ahhhh..parking at work. So a bit of thread drift...
Daughter works for local council in a unit in a non-Council owned property. The car park is for all users of the centre, not just the council people, and it is free for all, there is no barrier and until recently she didn't have to pay. She now has to pay something like £182 pa (from her salary, not on her tax) for parking. The charge does not entitle her to parking at other council properties, which are wholly staff car parks - she's to use the Visitor bays. And she isn't guaranteed a parking space for her money! That seems all a bit rich to me.
Last edited by: smokie on Thu 30 Sep 10 at 08:05
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>> You peasant, I cant think of anyone less deserving of a lottery win. >
It is now evident that the Lottery Board agree with you.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 2 Oct 10 at 20:53
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Having failed to find anywhere more conventional, we ate in a Turkish kebab place on Friday night in a little town near Vichy in the northern Auvergne.
We had a bottle of Turkish rose (can't do accents), because that was almost all there was.
To my surprise it was 14 per cent proof - and lovely.
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I assume you mean 14% ABV (alcohol by volume), which would be 24.5 % UK proof, not 14% proof which would be 8% ABV?
Do you remember when spirits were usually 70% proof? Now 40% ABV at the same strength.
We've a bottle of rosay in the fridge that I've been swerving around for a while. Might have to brave it tonight with the lamb. It's either that or it's a prize for the village hall bingo next week.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sun 3 Oct 10 at 17:15
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I admit to being a wine 'snob' in that I smell the wine first and frequently don't even bother to taste it before I tell the waiter to pour for the other diners. Only ever sent one bottle back. I chew wine, slurp it between the cheeks etc etc. Why? Because my father was/is a genuine wine connoisseur and taught me to understand wine and its complexities.
Having said that, I prefer to drink wine with less alcohol as the modern style of heavy fruity wines kills the delicate flavours. This weekend I drank what appeared to be a red wine with huge flavours but was only 12.5% alcohol and was therefore producing real flavour note just a heavy alcoholised punch.
I converted Espadrille to red wine, simply by knowing which red wine to select, when we had our first weekend away together in Paris. I still have friends in their 40s who will only drink white wine and its usually vinegar...They will simply not let me try to persuade them to sample a good red.
There are people who do not know what they are doing and make a big song and a dance about tasting wine. In a restaurant, all that is needed is a discreet strong sniff of the wine during a conversation to tell you all you need to know.
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>I assume you mean 14% ABV (alcohol by volume), which would be 24.5 % UK proof, not 14% proof which would be 8% ABV?<
Thanks for the explanation - I never did understand the difference.
Years ago I drank the best whisky I've ever tasted - called 'As We Get It' - that was reckoned to be something like 120% proof. How can that be?
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I'm not sure alcoholic "proof" is measured in percentages. I thought it was degrees, but wiki thinks it's just a number en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_proof
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It's actually "degrees proof" not "% proof". At least it was when I did chemistry back in the dark ages. 100% alcohol is 175 degrees proof in the UK. In the US I think 100% is 200 degrees proof.
If the whisky you had drunk was really 120 proof alcohol (around 70% alcohol by volume compared with 40% for normal whisky) I don't think it would have tasted particularly nice. I've tried very highly alcoholic drinks and they normally just taste of alcohol.
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It did taste very nice and it's the only whisky - or any spirit - I've ever drunk that was so volatile you could light it without warming it up first. And I've drunk some interesting stuff in this part of the world, where there is still a legal mobile distillery you can call in if you've got a few spare spuds.
After a little research - in a book, not Google! - I see that As We Get It is distilled by The Macallan, a respected name, and according to the label is 57.3% by volume, 100% proof. It's described as having a powerful nose with sherry and buttery malty notes, full bodied and, for a moment, sweet on the palate then quickly becoming dry and spirity with a pear-like finish.
I just wish I could remember...
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...It's described as having a powerful nose with sherry and buttery malty notes, full bodied and, for a moment, sweet on the palate then quickly becoming dry and spirity with a pear-like finish...
Bet the guy couldn't write that after a couple of large ones.
Going back to wine tasting in restaurants, I understood you only need to sniff the opened bottle.
You know what you've ordered and what it should smell like, so you are really only making sure it is as described and in good condition.
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The reason for the preliminary tasting in restaurants is to detect cork taint, commonly known as corked wine. Has a sort of must smell. Around 5% of traditionally sealed bottles suffer from this and have regularly taken back tainted wine to the supermarket for this reason. One brand of Greek wine I use to buy was notorious for this! Advent of the Stelvin screwcap and other artificial closures has largely eradicated this problem especially in cheaper wines.
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Some years ago I used to buy some drinkable Greek red that came out of a barrel. It was a good deal of course, up in Blackstock Road or somewhere.
If you didn't have a bottle they would give you one. Having bought a bottle of the wine, in their bottle, once I took a swig - not from the bottle, from a glass - and found something in my mouth.
It was an olive stone. Never went there again.
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Experts I know just sniff the cork. I've tried doing that when waiters offer to pour you a taster but they don't seem to like letting one do it. Maybe they think it's the mark of a poseur...
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Wine 'snobbery' - Zero
