I suppose that everybody here knows that this is an important subject for me.
Amongst the many Ambassadors, DHMs and Defence Attaches that attended today was the Japanese Ambassador. He is a really pleasant and thoroughly decent chap, one of my favourite of the many Ambassadors I regularly deal with.
Afterwards, over a cup of tea, he said to me "This is the first Remembrance event I have ever been invited to, it was lovely and I really appreciated it".
I am gratified but also a little sad about that.
FWIW, Germany, Italy amongst many, many others also participated - 30 something countries..
It is both a time to remember and a time to forget.
They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 14 Nov 21 at 23:16
|
>> Afterwards, over a cup of tea, he said to me "This is the first Remembrance
>> event I have ever been invited to, it was lovely and I really appreciated it".
>>
>> I am gratified but also a little sad about that.
For those of our generation, very much a global minded generation, its difficult to comprehend how this "war thaw" has taken so long. Our parents , however?
>> It is both a time to remember and a time to forget.
Its funny our parents, those of an age directly affected by WW2, seemed to be able to forgive the actions & crimes of the Germans, and not those of the Japanese. My Mother for example, despite the fact she was bombed out of her house, twice, by the Germans, and worked for a family firm that lost its elders in the Holocaust, never hated them, but positively despised the Japanese "for what they did". Right up to the day she died. (mind you with vascular dementia in her last year, she hated everyone)
|
|
I met my family in a local park yesterday, I was surprised at the dearth of poppies. I reckoned you could count on the fingers of one hand those of us wearing them.
|
|
Tis true not many worn on people, but a hell of a lot of dogs had them attached to their collars, reflective ones. Our local poppy seller outside Waitrose was running out daily.
|
>> I met my family in a local park yesterday, I was surprised at the dearth
>> of poppies. I reckoned you could count on the fingers of one hand those of
>> us wearing them.
>>
What I would say is that over the last few years the number of poppy badges sold that are made of enamel and various other materials, seems to have increased, and they’re sometimes much harder to see when worn. I bought one in 2018 that’s made from oxblood leather and, I think, metal from a shell. It’s much smaller than the normal poppy and not bright red, so perhaps not immediately visible. But I wear it every year. I’ll put money in a collection box when I see one, but I don’t take another poppy as well.
|
>> Its funny our parents, those of an age directly affected by WW2, seemed to be
>> able to forgive the actions & crimes of the Germans, and not those of the
>> Japanese. My Mother for example, despite the fact she was bombed out of her house,
>> twice, by the Germans, and worked for a family firm that lost its elders in
>> the Holocaust, never hated them, but positively despised the Japanese "for what they did". Right
>> up to the day she died. (mind you with vascular dementia in her last year,
>> she hated everyone)
For someone who was at school during the war, it seemed that the Germans played it more or less, "straight". They bombed us, we bombed them, that's what happens in wars. POWs were, by and large treated reasonably - yes, plenty of exceptions to that, I know. The Japanese treated POWs appallingly. That's why so many ex-servicemen and civilians alike hated the Japanese. They didn't play "fair".
|
>> For someone who was at school during the war, it seemed that the Germans played
>> it more or less, "straight". They bombed us, we bombed them, that's what happens in
>> wars. POWs were, by and large treated reasonably - yes, plenty of exceptions to that,
>> I know. The Japanese treated POWs appallingly. That's why so many ex-servicemen and civilians alike
>> hated the Japanese. They didn't play "fair".
The Nazi Regime Murdered:- (not killed in enemy action, but Murdered)
6 million jews, 5.7 million soviet citizens, 3 million Soviet prisoners of war, 1.8 million Polish Civilians, and one million Roma, Insane, Homosexual, and Jehova Witnesses. On our doorstep.
I dont understand how that generation think thats fair play and in time forgivable faster than Japanese atrocities.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 15 Nov 21 at 15:14
|
>> I dont understand how that generation think thats fair play and in time forgivable faster
>> than Japanese atrocities.
>>
Probably several reasons; post war myth that the Nazis did that, little mention of the Germans. A cold war necessity that we work with them holding back the new enemy. They looked and acted a bit more like us than the Japanese.
Other reasons no doubt.
|
>> I know. The Japanese treated POWs appallingly. That's why so many ex-servicemen and civilians
>> alike hated the Japanese. They didn't play "fair".
>>
>> The Nazi Regime Murdered:- (not killed in enemy action, but Murdered)
>>
Plus the infamous Commando Order and the needless murder of captured escapees from Stalag Luft 3.
The Germans also treated Russian POWs appallingly, with starvation rations which effectively lead to death - execution by starvation.
But this was the past and we've got to learn to live together if we are going to survive long term.
|
>> The Nazi Regime Murdered:- (not killed in enemy action, but Murdered)
>>
>> 6 million jews, 5.7 million soviet citizens, 3 million Soviet prisoners of war, 1.8 million
>> Polish Civilians, and one million Roma, Insane, Homosexual, and Jehova Witnesses.
I don't think there is any doubt that the British public were prepared to begin to forgive the Germans much quicker than the Japanese.
Why? Quite complex, It seems. Probably one reason is the people the Germans murdered were for the most part foreigners. No, it doesn't justify it.
The people the Japanese killed or illtreated were our own. Many people knew, or knew of someone badly treated by them.
Crude, but I think that is at least one of the reasons.
|
>>They didn't play "fair".
With Great Britain having such a superb record over history, of course.
But it is just that, history. We should remember it, regret it, and not repeat it, but we cannot change it. No country can.
Let he who is without sin, and all that.
For Remembrance, we remember and respect those served and who gave so much in our service. Good people have, over the years, died on all sides as is always the case.
The World Wars are a blight on humanity's history, along with so much else.
Those countries who were our enemies in those wars are now not. They will be welcome open-armed at any Remembrance Service for which I am responsible.
In this case the Japanese Ambassador and Defence Attache were respectful, were present and contributed open-hearted to the service. I cannot see that they could, or should, do more.
|
|
We were out clay pigeon shooting. A whistle was blown at 11.00 and there was total silence for well over two minutes. It was very relaxing and pleasant.
|
>> We were out clay pigeon shooting.
>> A whistle was blown at 11.00 and there was total silence for well over two minutes.
>> It was very relaxing and pleasant.
>>
I can no longer attend locally but the service was always to a background of what I assume was clay pigeon shooting. Hardly a rural area, close to Hook ( RB Kingston on Thames) on the A3.
I was able to show the young lass next door, on her return from the service, my fathers medals from WW! and my uncles from WW2.
I noted that The Church Lads & Church Girls Brigade: CLCGB, it was the CLB in my day, at the end of the march past.
I was a member in my teens and they supported me a lot, annual camps etc. Good to see them still active.
|
|
I was at the aerodrome at Goodwood. It went silent at 11, and there’s a memorial garden just outside where people were marking their respects. Then a chinook flew over very low indeed, did a circuit and disappeared.
|
|
Re the lack of poppies we could not get them for the shop this year despite being on order for a couple of months beforehand. From the lack of them being worn round here we were not the only ones.
|
|
I was at the Wreath Laying in Esher. Dominic Raab was there, and laid his own wreath. We played "spot the Special Branch man", I think I got it right.
|
>I think I got it right.
Don't tell us, don't tell us!
He was the one in shorts and flip-flops?
|
"lack of poppies"
I use the British Legion website.
I got frustrated a few years ago when I couldn't buy mine so I tried the website.
www.britishlegion.org.uk
I love it, it's my 'go to' website. Birthdays, Mother's Day, Father's Day, client gifts and all that stuff - I just do it all there. Mostly bags, everybody gets bags from me. The supermarket type, particularly. Everybody needs a few of those. They're a bit too cheap in my opinion, they should put a bigger markup on them.
I don't have to worry about choosing a present, it's all for a cause that I really care about and nobody dares to complain to me about what I bought for them. Click on the donation box, add a few quid extra and no more feeling guilty for going poppyless.
|
|
I went to our city's service. Local authority had closed the main road that passes through. Over a hundred there, mainly local residents, the odd uniform and the usual important people. What impressed me were the number of young people that were there. Silently watching from some distance away from the main crowd was a guy in his thirties (I would guess) in casual clothing with a chestful of medals. He'd seen "stuff" - seen him in the local gin palace occsinally, I'll stand him a beer next time I see him. The two uaccompanied national anthems sung by choristors raised the goose-flesh.
|
>>What impressed me were the number of young people that were there
We welcome schools, typically two students and a Headmaster or a senior teacher from each. The Students value their invitations, are surprisingly knowledgeable, and report back to their schools at an appropriate assembly.
We should remember what those who served gave, long after those that did give have passed.
|
|
The one nearest me, they had a formal event with all the roads closed off. I was going to go togged up but ended up not going in the end, due to a family illness and I ended up watching it on TV.
|
Sadly, up here in the West of Scotland, like many other things, poppy has been hijacked by one side of the city and as a result of this, snubbed by the other side.
The latest example:
www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/19716168.bristol-bar-tank-parked-outside-glasgow-pub-remembrance-sunday/
|
Take it back.
Buy your poppy from a recognised supplier, wear it with pride, stand in silence and remembrance at 11.00, wherever you are, and fck the idiots.
|
|
Sign of the times but it was observed that road closures for the parades now involve substantial vehicles or obstructions. Locally a pair of refuse vehicles were utilised.
|
>>Locally a pair of refuse vehicles were utilised.
So that's why our bins weren't emptied.
|
We went to the parade in Appleby, Westmorland. Showed our forgiving nature by turning up in a Japanese electric car. I was able to sit in the car opposite the spot where the silence was being held. Our friend was playing in the band next to the car.
It was a bit of a ragbag group of people with half a dozen soldiers who looked a bit ropey and out of step, but hats off to all who took part.
Then off to an excellent lunch in Greystoke, Cumberland, before tea and cake back at the cottage.
We had four killed in the 2 wars.
Ted
|
Remembrance - Zero
