Non-motoring > Salisbury train crash. Tax / Insurance / Warranties
Thread Author: No FM2R Replies: 13

 Salisbury train crash. - No FM2R
How many wheels does a train brake with?
 Salisbury train crash. - tyrednemotional
...generally, all of them...

(or not)
 Salisbury train crash. - Zero
The last one in is a BR class 159, disk brakes witb ABS, and sanders (sanders not on all bogies)

There is more to this than low adhesion.
 Salisbury train crash. - No FM2R
If that is the case, then surely there must be excess speed involved to overshoot the mark by this much?
 Salisbury train crash. - Zero
The question is, why was there a SPAD, (signal passed at danger) when there should have been yellow warning, and double yellow warnings before hand. The train also as AWS (automatic warning system - a warning the driver has passed signals at caution)) and ATP (automatic train protection - slams on the brakes if it passes a signal at danger)

As I said there is much more to this to come out.

EDIT AWS also warns driver of excess speed, at a temporary or permanent track limit.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 2 Nov 21 at 17:54
 Salisbury train crash. - Bromptonaut
BBC report suggests the RAIB might issue an interim report in fairly short order.

It will be interesting to see whether wheel slide/low adhesion alone allowed the South Western train to pass a red signal or whether other factors were involved.

EDIT: The gricer's gricer agrees with me that it ain't just a 'skid'.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 2 Nov 21 at 17:52
 Salisbury train crash. - Zero
The RAIB will be pouring over the contents of the OTMRS. On train monitoring & recording system. The black box.
 Salisbury train crash. - Zero
According to the railway workers forum, it appears the scheduled Rail Head Teatment Train wasn't.

The RHTT is a train that pressure washes the rail head, and spreads a stuff called sandite on the rail.
 Salisbury train crash. - tyrednemotional's an interesting one really. I suspect the driver will have a few questions to answer, but the black box should give a reasonably definitive verdict.

AIUI the train which was in the Tunnel was from London, whilst that which struck it was from Southampton. That would mean they were both converging on the tunnel from the same direction, but via different routes that met at points only yards from the tunnel mouth.

The red "home" signal that was apparently passed is only just over 100m from the junction, providing rather less clearance than if both trains had been on the same line running under conventional "block" working, *around 200m, I think) and therefore less room for misjudgement in braking.

If there was little or no rail adhesion, then once a certain point was passed there would be nothing the driver could do. Think braking a heavy vehicle on black ice with no ability to steer, and no skidding to slow things down. ATP, AWS or any other system would be of absolutely no use at that point (albeit they would react, ineffectively, to the SPAD).

Conjecture, but it looks to me as if the driver was relying on late-braking, and got caught out by the adhesion problems, BUT, the lack of adhesion wouldn't have happened at the drop of a hat. Previous trains should probably have noted something (unless, of course, all had had the free route beforehand). Even in my day of being on the rails, such issues would have gone reported, and fairly quickly - nowadays, with onboard communications, that is much easier.
 Salisbury train crash. - Ted

For anyone interested, the RAIB will send you an email weekly about incidents and accidents. Some very interesting near-misses which don't hit the press, as well as SPADs and actual accidents.

I think the next big one to come is the fatal at Margam where track workers were killed by an HST.

 Salisbury train crash. - Bromptonaut
>> For anyone interested, the RAIB will send you an email weekly about incidents and accidents.

You also have the option of registering for updates whenever there's something new. AAIB and MAIB offer the same facility.
 Salisbury train crash. - Bromptonaut
RAIB update today:
 Salisbury train crash. - Bromptonaut
And again today:

RAIB website but full link screws up this site's page layout.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 21 Feb 22 at 21:32
 Salisbury train crash. - Zero
No mention if the sanders on 1F27 were working or operated, but as previously noted upthread NooNoo the vacuum cleaner had been delayed.

If you want to see the effects of schmoo on tracks - check out the excellent Mr Knownnowt's vid here

here is noo noo the vacuum cleaner, - The Rail Head treatment train.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 23 Feb 22 at 18:01
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