Tell me, please. What's the difference between Vegan, plant based, & vegan plant based
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Watching this with interest….
And how can you have plant based bacon?
Though to be fair I was having an argument with a colleague today who was singing the praises of lime cider she had at the weekend……
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A "plant based" diet does not necessarily exclude meat or dairy.
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Mrs B has been Vegan since the start of this year. To me the term requires no further explanation; no meat, fish dairy etc.
She's since started to use the plant based explanation which seems only to further any doubt or confusion rather than reducing it. Better to state what you don't eat rather than what you do. I'm not sure the average Joe immediately grasps what 'plant based' means.
In response to Bobby I've yet to find Vegan bacon that passes in in (vegan) Bolognese never mind in a sandwich.
On the other hand there are some surprisingly good Vegan Burgers.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 25 Oct 21 at 22:42
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Walker's smoky bacon crisps are vegetarian!
If they can do that with all food I may consider it's worthwhile not seeing any animals in our fields!
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I'm not vegan, but Sainsbury have just started doing a sandwich described as "Vegan Onion Bhaji & Mango Chutney on Black Onion Seed Bread". I really like the taste.
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Plant based is not the right descriptor - the steak I had for supper tonight was mostly processed grass and seeds.
Some may choose to avoid meat, fish, fowl and dairy - and should be respected for their personal choices. Others come to a different conclusion.
There are numerous examples of vegetables processed to look and taste like meat - veggie sausages, chicken, burgers, bacon etc. I have yet to see fillet steak prpcessed to look and taste just like a carrot.
Leaving aside the economics of the proposition, it does say something about which foods enrich and give pleasure in life.
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>> On the other hand there are some surprisingly good Vegan Burgers.
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What are they like? Vegan burgers/plant based burgers, I always think of them as being dry and tasteless.
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Beware of some side-effects of a vegetarian/vegan diet.
During the BSE scare I stopped eating red meat and Mrs K. used it as an opportunity to wean me off meat altogether. After achieving that she turned her attention to eliminating fish from our diet.
After about a week of sod all protein my body decided that it was heading for lights-out and needed to procreate quickly and as often as possible. 'Randy as a butcher's dog' doesn't come close.
Last year I went on the 'Covid Diet'. I lost 10Kg in less than a month.
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Plenty of protein in a vegan diet.
Even plain old pasta is 10-15% protein (dry - half that once cooked since it absorbs water).
My missus and 2 of my children are pescetarian, and myself and my other child are omnivores - since I am the head chef I mostly make vegetarian meals with fish a couple of times per week. If we go out to eat I'll have white/red meat perhaps half of the time.
Can't say I feel any healthier/unhealthier but it is a fair bit easier on the wallet cooking vegetarian style.
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>> Tell me, please. What's the difference between Vegan, plant based, & vegan plant based
>> ???????
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I think the last two are marketing terms?
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Plant based doesn't preclude a bit of meat, but relies on plants for the the bulk of protein and other essential elements of diet. You can make your own rules so it might not exclude e.g. bacon bits in salad or the occasional Macdonalds.
Vegan is vegan.
Plant based vegan presumably means vegan.
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How can you tell if a person is vegan?
They’ll tell you.
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Mrs B, asked the specific question, says Vegan and plant based are same thing. Plant based would mean exclusively so and no, plants converted to meat do not count.
Her weak spots are French cheese, some fish and Stornoway Black Pudding.
It has been suggested the veganism be secreted on the white cliffs or aboard the Cal Mac ferry to be collected on return.
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>> Mrs B, asked the specific question, says Vegan and plant based are same thing. Plant
>> based would mean exclusively so and no, plants converted to meat do not count.
I can see why she would think that but I'm afraid that she is wrong. They are not the same thing and plant based is not vegan.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 26 Oct 21 at 21:40
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>> I can see why she would think that but I'm afraid that she is wrong.
>> They are not the same thing and plant based is not vegan.
Curious not argumentative but if one's diet is wholly of plant based food, excluding meat, fish or dairy, how is that not vegan?
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It's the difference between a plant diet and a plant based diet.
Based upon something does not necessarily mean consisting entirely Or solely of.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 26 Oct 21 at 22:06
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I'd say my wife has a meat based diet, because it's the major part of what she eats. But she does also eat some non meat stuff.
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>> I'd say my wife has a meat based diet, because it's the major part of
>> what she eats. But she does also eat some non meat stuff.
Ahh right. Mrs B's diet is exclusively plant based. Apart from butter when she can't be a***d making a fuss over toast in hotels.
She thinks it clarifies her veganism but I can recall at least one occasion, in a small cafe, where it caused more confusion than just using the word vegan (only clarify if you are asked or feel the need).
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>> It's the difference between a plant diet and a plant based diet.
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>> Based upon something does not necessarily mean consisting entirely Or solely of.
>>
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That's what I understand it to mean.
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>> Curious not argumentative but if one's diet is wholly of plant based food, excluding meat,
>> fish or dairy, how is that not vegan?
Well now you're introducing new information - who said "wholly" and "excluding meat, fish or dairy"?
If I lived on porridge with a bit of golden syrup on it the occasional bag of pork scratching when I am in a pub having a pint, I'd say my diet was porridge-based.
I know a bloke who mainly eats cheese sandwiches (true). There's definitely bread involved, maybe some butter and possibly some chutney. He has a cheese-based diet.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 27 Oct 21 at 10:32
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My original post was, was as brompy suggested, that "vegan plant based" just seemed to be overkill. A vegan burger is a vegan burger, don't think you can make one from anything other than plant material.
I get you can have a plant based diet, you can have a vegan diet but you can't have both
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 27 Oct 21 at 09:52
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If this has turned into a verbal reasoning test, then a vegan diet is just one possible plant-based diet so you could have both. But a plant based diet is not necessarily vegan.
I'm struggling to think of a vegan food that isn't from a plant?
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No not a verbal reasoning test, the term I think was coined by the ruminant humans to try and make us normal humans more guilty by tacking on global warming threats.
And no one can not have both, its vegan or plant based, as Mark said the two are not the same
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No they are not the same, but what is a vegan diet if not plant-based?
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....and how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?.... ;-)
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To my mind there is a very simple distinction between descriptors:
- vegetable - edible portion of a plant
- meat - the flesh of an animal
- fish - an animal that lives in water
There is some ambiguity over the products of animals - milk, cheese, eggs. Some animals live on both land and water. Justifying their consumption or otherwise based on skewed intellectual arguments to support a preconceived conclusion is pointless.
A vegan or vegetarian (to my mind) does not eat fish or meat - they eat a 1000% vegetable diet. The clue is in the name.
Omnivores eat all food groups. Few people are pure carnivores - 100% meat eating.
The term vegan or vegetarian are too often used to signal virtuous behaviours - people should be free to make their own choices.
Personally I would align with moderate omnivorous or balanced diets - excess consumption of one food group to the exclusion of others carries far greater health risk.
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>> The term vegan or vegetarian are too often used to signal virtuous behaviours - people
>> should be free to make their own choices.
They may well be used for that purpose but they are also stand alone descriptors.
A vegetarian does not eat meat but will consume dairy or eggs. Some eat fish but I'd argue that's a meat and they're pescatarian. A colleague used exactly that term yesterday.
A vegan will not eat meat, fish or dairy, eggs etc. Animal fat in cooking is a no no too. Strict vegans won't drink beer or wine fined with isinglass - a fish based product.
Mrs B and our son are both vegan.
In his case the main driver is animal cruelty though he has previous allergy type issues with dairy.
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>Personally I would align with moderate omnivorous or balanced diets..
Does a bacon sarnie with ketchup count as a balanced diet? What if it's HP sauce?
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...I thought a balanced diet was a pint in each hand....?
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>> No not a verbal reasoning test, the term I think was coined by the ruminant
>> humans to try and make us normal humans more guilty by tacking on global warming
>> threats.
I suspect that's the motivation for the increasing use of 'plant based' branding on vegan food packaging.
As already mentioned, Mrs B seems to be using it to explain but in reality, as shown in this thread, it confuses.
Real clarity would be to say she's vegan and does not eat meat/fish/dairy/eggs etc.
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>>Real tautology would be to say she's vegan and does not eat meat/fish/dairy/eggs etc.
"Vegan" compresses that down to a single word as far as I'm concerned.
As an aside, my brother has been vegan for 30 years - we went to Zizzi a couple of years ago and he ordered the puy lentil based ragu & pasta.
After a couple of bites he was convinced it was meat-based (it did look more like mince than lentils but you never know how they prepare these things) - manager thought it was the vegan one so took it to the kitchen to ask the chef - returns looking almost ill and v.apologetic - free desserts and coffees for the table (11 of us) were offered and accepted.
Brother was largely unperturbed despite having not eaten meat for 30yrs so was a decent result in the end.
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>>I'm struggling to think of a vegan food that isn't from a plant?
Mushrooms (and other yeast & fungi-derived products)
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Considering there are 7+bn people eat varying diets, and there have been thousands of studies of diet & health, it is still difficult to say what is the "best" diet for health and wellbeing.
Probably it is pescetarianism in my opinion, derived from studies of 7th-day adventists.
These guys have a broadly similar population who are largely in 3 camps: vegetarian/vegan, pescetarian, and omnivores. They avoid alcohol.
The pescetarians live longer, followed by the veggies, followed by the omnivores according to one study I read a few years ago.
This article describes their dietary habits:
www.healthline.com/nutrition/seventh-day-adventist-diet
Last edited by: Lygonos on Wed 27 Oct 21 at 12:22
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I became pescatarian overnight in the late 80's after reading a book called Why You Don't Need Meat. It included research which seemed to show bowel cancer was more prevalent in meat eating societies. That was a no-brainer for me as my father died of it when I was 18 and he was just 44. The killing of animals for food was not a factor, but I was horrified to discover that there was no required training for those working in slaughter houses. The change in diet was easy, although I missed smoky bacon until I discovered roasted and salted pistachios. As a meat eater I'd always experienced a welcome feeling of lightness in the stomach area when a meal included salad. That feeling become a norm for most meals.
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My failing is junk food - kebab, burger, sausage etc. etc.
Wouldn't other me if I never had another steak or other joint of meat, but junk food? Nope, not giving that up.
Maybe I would be more healthy or live a bit longer if I didn't, but it's not all about longevity.
I also can't be a***d to worry about ingredients all the time. So a roast dinner without meat works for me, and I don't stress over what was cooked with what or what the gravy, for example, contains.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 27 Oct 21 at 13:09
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>My failing is junk food - kebab, burger, sausage etc. etc.
British Kebab Awards last night.
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Bit surprised they didn't ask me to attend, given the depth and extent of my recent survey efforts.
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>>My failing is junk food - kebab, burger, sausage etc. etc.
Plenty of nutrients, then. I think junk food is a term that should be reserved for items that are edible but without nutrient value, although I can't nominate any off hand.
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>> Plenty of nutrients, then. I think junk food is a term that should be reserved
>> for items that are edible but without nutrient value, although I can't nominate any off
>> hand.
That's absolutely my thought too.
I certainly would not categorise a Maccy D's or a kebab in pitta as junk food as long as they're part of a balanced diet with regard to calorie input/usage.
I'm more concerned about things with excess sugar/salt and which sell on price to those who struggle most with low incomes etc.
And yes I know that they can obtain/cook excellent nutritious meals from scratch but time amd the availability of the sugar/stodge etc alternatives cloud the issue.
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No doubt that processed meats with nitrates n sheet caused my bowel cancer, so it's ethically sourced sheet free bacon burgers n sausages for me. In moderation.
No idea what was responsible for my bladder cancer tho, so gin in all its forms is still on the menu, to excess., my liver is as strong as an ox.
Edit, hmmmmm that reminds me, liver and bacon nom nom. With onion gravy, is it plant based?
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 27 Oct 21 at 17:03
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>>No doubt that processed meats with nitrates n sheet caused my bowel cancer
Booze is also linked to bowel cancer, even in modest doses.
Interestingly if you marinade your red meats in dark beer before BBQing it, you reduce the level of carcinogenic compounds as well as imparting flavour.
www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode/meat-beer-marinade/
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>> Edit, hmmmmm that reminds me, liver and bacon nom nom. With onion gravy, is it
>> plant based?
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With mashed potatoes and some dark green vegetable matter for me.
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>> My failing is junk food - kebab, burger, sausage etc. etc.
I wonder if you've seen Danny, doing his Youtube "Rate My Takeaway" series? Boy, has he eaten some junk food...
www.youtube.com/c/RateMyTakeaway/videos
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Sorry slight jump but ties up with another thread...
When you have your flu jab you should be asked if you are allergic to eggs as eggs are used within the production cycle.
I guess that precludes this version of the jab to vegans?
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Veganism - Bobby
