Can anybody tell me which breeds MUST be kept on a lead in a Public place or where to get the correct info.
Thanks.....Martin.
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There are no rules or regulations on which breeds need leads and which breeds don't. Local authority dog rules apply to all dogs regardless of breed.
The only breed related regulations is the dangerous dogs act which bans ownership of 4 distinct breeds
Pit Bull Terrier
Japanese Tosa
Dogo Argentino
Fila Brasileiro
The dangerous dogs act makes it a criminal offence to allow a dog (any breed of dog) to be dangerously out of control in a public place.
For further information, the dogs trust is the place to go, they have legal advisers.
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Just before carnival, passed somewhere in Notting Hill a youngish black guy accomanied by wife/gf and with a cute little pitbull puppy on a lead. The little dog was really sweet, gambolling along and jumping up at people to be petted although the guy kept it on a short leash.
I pointed at the pup and said with mock sterrnness: 'Dangerous dog!'
The guy looked very angry indeed and it occurred to me that he might be wondering whether to shoot me. Fortunately the lady had a sense of humour and burst out laughing.
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>>I pointed at the pup and said with mock sterrnness: 'Dangerous dog!'<<
How can you be sure Sire that it was indeed a Pitbull, I've seen Staff cross American Bulldogs that looked like Pits.
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>> How can you be sure Sire that it was indeed a Pitbull,
I can't of course. They are all pit bulls to me unless they are those long-nosed, triangular-headed English bull terriers.
Fighting dogs aren't one of my areas of particular expertise. But I do know what an Argentinian Dogo looks like, from a movie.
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>>But I do know what an Argentinian Dogo looks like, from a movie. <<
I 'met' a Canarian Mastiff on one of my walks in the hills of Tenerife once, not un-like a Dogo,
he lunged at me and I was in fear for my life but luckily he was on a strong chain.
Phew!
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The trouble is most people think this
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staffordshire_Bull_Terrier
is this
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Pit_Bull_Terrier
Including the yoof who buy Staffies thinking they are Pitbulls. When the Staffie isnt as violent as they thought it should be, they give it a kicking. A Staffie can take care of itself if provoked enough and makes the yoof happy.
Unfortunately, there are APBT and SBT crosses, and that makes it an illegal breed.
Luckily most yoof don't have real APBT's. Pity really, it would turn on them and rip an arm off.
I've seen real APBT's in action, and the only way to get it off your arm, or leg is to kill it.
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>>I've seen real APBT's in action, and the only way to get it off your arm, or leg is to kill it.<<
I used to see them when we lived in Hastings (St. Leo.),
The owners would have them hanging onto a rope by their jaws t strengthen their bite :(
I haven't seen one Staffy in 4 years of living in Truro, mostly Black Labs.
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Strengthening the bite in itself is not a problem. Its the lack of control.
For example, in Shutzhund ( a German inspired dog sport) the strength and quality of bite is marked highly. What's even more highly marked down is lack of control. A shutzhund dog that wont release on command gets marked down or booted out.
There is something noble about having a strong, powerful, brave, intelligent dog, that will do anything ( or more to the point - NOT do or STOP doing anything) on command for you out of loyalty and a desire to please you.
There is nothing noble in owning a dog that will attack anything without control because that behaviour has been beaten into it.
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>>For example, in Shutzhund ( a German inspired dog sport)<<
Yes, I entirely agree, and with what DP wrote, I've read about the Shutzhund when we had a German Shepherd a few years ago, I obtained him from a G/S 'rescue' centre, but they failed to inform me that he had bitten his previous owner, he went on to try to remove my friends (no more!) calf muscle, he (the Dog) had to be put down in the end, alas.
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Must have been Fenlanders old one, the one that scavenged the old mercury.
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>>Must have been Fenlanders old one, the one that scavenged the old mercury. <<
Yeah - as a hatter!
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Dogs are like children. They are a product of how well (or badly) they are treated. While it's true that breeds have their own distinct behavioural characteristics, even the most placid of dogs will eventually become grumpy and aggressive if it's beaten or trained to be aggresive. Equally a dog treated with respect and affection is unlikely to be dangerous.
Much of the bluster around so-called dangerous dogs comes from the wannabe hardmen who own them, and the aggression these often badly abused dogs inflict, some of which is bad enough to maim or kill. Yet, it is a little known fact that the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, fashion accessory of the chav hardman is widely regarded as one of the best dog breeds to have around children.
Dogs of all breeds are highly intelligent, social creatures, and it infuriates me that a handful of irresponsible, moronic owners are responsible for effectively demonising large numbers of them. When I make my judgement about whether a dog is likely to be a danger to me, I tend to look at the owner as much as the dog.
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>> I haven't seen one Staffy in 4 years of living in Truro, mostly Black Labs.
>>
They get everywhere me ol' Mate.
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>>They get everywhere me ol' Mate.<<
I know they do me ole son, I see about 7 labs, mostly black, an english setter, a soft wheaten terror, a bichon freeze, 2 Shih Tzu's, 1GSD, some collies, a large munsterlander, a border terror,
but NO staffies :)
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 24 Sep 10 at 00:55
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>> I haven't seen one Staffy in 4 years of living in Truro
We've got your share here in Coalville then. Almost all of my neighbours in the street have at least one. I'm rather surprised no-one's kids have been properly bitten yet...
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>>We've got your share here in Coalville then<<
Well, according to a local cop I was speaking to this morning, there are plenty of Staffies in Truro,
praps I need to get out more :}
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Most of the ones I see in London don't look like either of those, Zero. So they are probably Staffordshire crosses.
They vary widely in size and demeanour though. Only a few look genuinely frightening. A lot are very well-behaved and friendly.
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Yeah, its the crossing of the "bull" breeds that's causing a lot of problems. The authorities cant tell which of these crosses puts it into the "pit bull" criteria that's banned. The police and dog wardens have to rely on expert vet and breed specialists to decide on destruction.
Some countries have banned all the "bull" breeds.
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All dogs should be on leads. I run in the country and have three bite marks from : alsatian, rottweiler and spaniel..
The owners deserve to be put down...
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>>All dogs should be on leads<<
I never have my R/Ridgeback on a lead, but if I see a cyclist/jogger/another dog walker, I grab him by the collar,
and he hasn't caused annoyance to anyone in 10.5 years.
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We don't have the Malinois on a lead either. They all respond to the down command, even given at a distance of 100 yards. (If you can shout loud enough to be heard)
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Cycling the 5 miles or so to work gives me plenty of scope to interact with dogs. I've had a terrier fasten itself onto my boot as I trundled past. Persistent little beggar only let go after I scraped it off against a bench at a modest speed. Many seem to see me as something to be chased and only a limited number of owners seem to have any control over their animals.
One such chased me for nearly a mile; I didn't feel inclined to stop, not knowing how savagely I would be greeted. So I ignored the owner's pleas to stop and the dog only gave up after I overshot my normal parking place and merged with the traffic heading for Richmond, reasoning that a few cars might distract it.
I'll recycle this from another forum a year ago.
"On my way to work along the old railway track I saw two women walking a dog each so I slowed down and tinkled the bell. They stepped aside and one woman crouched down next to her animal concealing it as I approached. As I passed the group about to thank the women a small black Labrador jumped purposefully into the front wheel from my left. Spokes clipped its nose and it fell over whereupon my skidding front wheel ran over a few of its legs. There was a long yelp and the dog struggled to its feet, banging its head on the left pedal causing me to put my right foot down in some nettles to stop the bike falling. The dog must have decided that I was piloting some dog-specific killing machine and bolted down the track in the direction I was going. It glanced over its shoulder from time to time before disappearing.
One of the women apologised to me and the other called the dog's name repeatedly. I said I hoped they found the dog and that it was all right and set off. Half a mile later I caught up with the dog, still making a fair pace and still checking behind it in an approved Cycling Proficiency manner. Seeing me catching up apparently made the dog decide to hide as it couldn't outrun me and it peeled off into the undergrowth. I pulled over behind the dog and rang the bell at which the dog broke cover and ran back off in the direction of the women."
I've no use for a dog myself, but I think there may be a case for reintroducing dog licences. My bicycle water bottle contains vinegar solution in case I can't ever outrun the blighters.
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>> All dogs should be on leads. I run in the country and have three bite
>> marks from : alsatian, rottweiler and spaniel..
>>
>> The owners deserve to be put down...
Clearly you are not running fast enough.
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Nobody should have to run from what is alleged to be a domestic pet and not under the full control of its owner. If I want a run I go for one, I don't need dogs to force me to!
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I know, but, honestly, terrorised by a spaniel?
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There is a facility near us which is promoted by the Forestry Commission as a dedicated location for mountain biking. It has miles of tracks and a specialised "take your brain out before entering" section. It is also open to horse riders and walkers.
Given its primary selling point it might seem obvious that there is more than a slight possibility of encountering mountain bikes and horses moving at high speed. Despite this, families will insist on walking line abreast across the paths leaving no room to pass and letting their dogs run loose into the bargain. I have witnessed several accidents involving bikes and over excited dogs, some of which led to nasty injuries to both humans and animals alike.
Only last week I had to throw myself and my bike into thick foliage to avoid running over a dog which shot straight under my wheels while I was travelling at speed. I and the bike luckily suffered only minor damage and failed to elicit any form of apology from the dog's owner.
Sometimes I wonder if people have any common sense at all.
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Apology? your lucky the dog didn't savage your skin tight Lycra
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The dog is lucky I didn't savage it.
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>>a slight possibility of encountering mountain bikes and horses moving at high speed.<<
>>while I was travelling at speed<<
SPEED, that's the problem.
It's the countryside and it's meant to be enjoyed by everyone.
I think you need a speed limit of 2MPH and Gatso's every 500 yards to keep these tracks free from hooligans.
Pat
Do you really wear lycra Humph?:)
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It's a mountain bike track Pat. If people want to walk their dogs off the lead they should choose a different forest.....and no I don't !
Last edited by: Humph D'bout on Thu 23 Sep 10 at 18:18
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In that case you deserve to get nettle stings when the dogs make you fall off:)
Pat
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Don't give up, just learn.
Women lust after Lycra and leather:)
pat
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Lycra and leather. Can't risk it. I get enough bother as it is.....
:-)
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Lycra and leather... in the event of a heavy downpour of acid rain, could easily with the right proportion of manly sweat become a sort of unclean voltaic cell...
Better not touch Pat, if it's raining that is. We'd hate to read that you had been taken out by a long blue spark while flirting with a couple of bikers in a layby outside Northallerton or somewhere... (just for you pat, only three dots).
:o}
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...Do you really wear lycra Humph?:)...
As our resident fashion Tsar, Humph will know lycra is for road-going whippets.
Properly built manly mountain bikers wear casual gear.
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The way the dogs are chasing him, one wonders if he is wearing the latest fashion by Lady Gaga.
www.peta.org/b/thepetafiles/archive/2010/09/13/Lady-Gagas-Meat-Dress.aspx
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...the latest fashion by Lady Gaga...
Mutton dressed in, instead of as, lamb.
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Mutton dressed as............GOAT!
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I have only encountered one occasion when I was threatened by a dog in the golf course/park where I work, and that was my fault, as I had just been handling a fox trap. I put my gloved hand torwards the dog and it reacted pretty violently torwards me, but did not bite me, just snapping it's jaws near my hand and barking, basically warning me off. My gloves must have smelt strongly of fox, and not surprisingly, the dogs instincts kicked in.
I can't remember an occasion where any dog in the park has attacked a member of the public, and there are plenty of runners. But I'm of the opinion that the dog walkers that I see are the best of the breed, as they are exercising the dogs regularly and getting them used to activities around them without the dog reacting badly. It's the people who have their dogs holed up at home all day, out of sight of most people and frustrated by lack of exercise, that are the ones to worry about.
I go running but if I see a dog I'll usually stop, and let the owner deal with it. I think some people who have a natural aversion to dogs are more likely to be attacked as the dog can sense this, although that doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to exercise outdoors (dogs or people).
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>> Clearly you are not running fast enough.
>>
At my age, it's just enough to be running..
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I find the settee to be a much more civilised pursuit.
No need for Lycra or any special dress code either !
Ted
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I find that owners who let dogs off leads have a 50: 50 chance of being able to control them when the unexpected happens: like a rabbit in the country, or a cow in a field (dogs with humans and cows tend to result in trampling of owner#), or a stick or a runner.
Most dogs have the IQ of their owners...:-) or maybe a lot more...
Which in some cases is not difficult - See pitbulls.
I have a defence worked out if again attacked my a dog: I will put my straightened fingers into said dog's eyes...self defence..
People should not let domesticated wolves loose anywhere. They deposit foul smelling dung which poisons the ground.. said owners do not run after loose dogs to collect said crap in a plastic bag.
Dogs are smelly , foul, poisonous animals with lots of noise and teeth and a ravenous appetite. Fortunately they usually die of overfeeding.
I just love dogs :-)
The scars on my posterior are quite fetching.. or so I'm told!
# Some might say that's a good thing. I remain silent...
Last edited by: madf on Thu 23 Sep 10 at 20:01
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I'm not anti dogs. I rather like them actually. I just wish their owners would realise and respect that letting them off their leads in inappropriate circumstances can be potentially dangerous to others and indeed to the dogs themselves. A big bloke at full tilt on a bike would make a sorry mess of a dog.
Where I do wholeheartedly agree with you is the matter of clearing up dog mess. Owners seem to think because their animal defacates in a forest it's ok to leave it. Well, let me tell you if you hit a fresh pile of that stuff on a mountain bike you can't get rid of the taste for days !
:-(
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>> Well, let me tell you if you hit a fresh pile of that stuff
>> on a mountain bike you can't get rid of the taste for days !
Talking of nasty niffs, did you manage to freshen up the Mondeo, and has the said niff been banished?
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So far so good with the help of a "bomb" corax. There's a thread waffling on about it somewhere.
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DO NOT use the bomb on dog poo.
There is a famous blaster bates tale about that somewhere.
I will hunt it out.
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Um...I didn't. Corax and I were just having a little drift moment.
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Here it is,
WARNING
SOME STRONG LANGUAGE
www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOwven0Rt94
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I had the pleasure of attending a chat he did, only about a dozen of us bothered to go unfortunately. A wonderful raconteur.
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>> Where I do wholeheartedly agree with you is the matter of clearing up dog mess.
>> Owners seem to think because their animal defacates in a forest it's ok to leave
>> it.
I don't know if it's The Look-Out (Bracknell) you're talking about, but there are signs there specifically telling dog walkers to not pick up their dogs' mess. Can't remember the reasons they give though.
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It isn't Focus but I guess the only valid excuse is if it is a mountain biking area it might be prudent advice not to spend too long bending down picking up turds in the potential path of determined bikers hitting up to 30 mph on the loose stuff! Some mountain bike tyres are more than 2" wide, very knobbly and strengthened with kevlar. You wouldn't want one of those forced up your fundament at any kind of speed. Could quite put you off most things for a day or two could that.
Last edited by: Humph D'bout on Thu 23 Sep 10 at 22:13
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>> Owners seem to think because their animal defacates in a forest it's ok to leave
>> it.
It is. Dogs came from the forest long before man invented mountain bikes. Foxes poo in it, badgers poo in it, rabbits, deer, badgers, wild boar all poo in it. If its good enough for them, its good enough for my dog.
I pick it up, always without exception, from parks, grass verges, footways, etc.
If you and your bike slip in dog poo in a forest, its an act of nature.
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Not in this case, it's a dedicated sports facility. If your dog crapped on a football pitch or a running track you'd clear it up right ? If it's just a normal forest track I can just about see your point even if I still have some reservations about any form of introduced litter and ordure.
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I would think there is a real health danger if most dog poo at that facility is not cleaned up. Too much risk of poo being thrown in someone eye.
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>> Not in this case, it's a dedicated sports facility. If your dog crapped on a
>> football pitch or a running track you'd clear it up right ?
Yes I would, so I see your point if its man made.
If it's just
>> a normal forest track I can just about see your point even if I still
>> have some reservations about any form of introduced litter and ordure.
Its not introduced. Wolves and forests pre date man and his bike. If anything is an introduced
species, its your bike. (does it have a name? your bike that is.)
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Getting a bit near the knuckle eh!
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Beats me why anybody would either want to let their dog dump and just leave it, which some otherwise intelligent people seem to think is OK "in the woods" or, equally, pick up the turds.
Anyone arriving in a flying saucer, and observing a typical dog owner for a day or two, would conclude that the dog was the intelligent life form and the human its slave or servant, feeding it and picking up its dung.
I don't dislike dogs, but the way some owners fawn and anthropomorphise is nauseating.
They are wolves, all of them, genetically. Every dog is a potential biter/killer in the right (wrong) circumstances, and they should all be on leads in public places.
Last edited by: Manatee on Thu 23 Sep 10 at 22:33
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>
>> They are wolves, all of them, genetically.
They are indeed, its essential to realise that before you can understand them.
>> Every dog is a potential biter/killer in the right (wrong) circumstances,
In theory, a healthy dog is so equipped.
>> and they should all be on leads in public places.
depends on "public", the dog and the handler.
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I agree, but the point of the original question is that we have one 'R' sole in town who has the brains of a Gnat, but has a dog, (seemingly quite pleasant) that has the potential to harm big style. Staffie I think (and I know several who are fine), but knowing a little bit about this lonely character I suggest from his posturing that if he is upset (i.e. the soopermarket runs out of sunny delight) he may falter and direct said Dog to 'prove' his worth. You have to watch at a very close level the way these people act and speak. It is quite worrying really.
M
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Back to the original, (and I wondered why the enquiry).
The key is that the various local by-laws and the dangerous dogs act, does have scope around the "under control" section that could enforce the dog to be muzzled in public.
Your local council dog warden is the place to go to get this investigated.
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Twenty-odd years ago I taught my dog to crap on the bridleway (she used to love rolling in what the horses left there). At the time I thought that was acceptable.
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Haven't seen that in years. Real Humour.
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>>Every dog is a potential biter/killer in the right (wrong) circumstances, and they should all be on leads in public places<<
And likewise - every man is a potential killer in the right (wrong) circumstances, and they should all be on leads in public places, not.
Its man not Dog that wiped out indigenous species in the Americas, Australasia, and Africa,
its man not Dog that has lead to nigh on one hundred million dead due to wars in the 20th century (and continuing)
I hope that anyone arriving in a flying saucer is more Dog-like, than like man kind?
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There are no bad dogs, only bad owners.
Pat
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...There are no bad dogs, only bad owners...
There are no bad lorries, only bad lorry drivers.
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That's a very risky thread drift Iffy... give me a moment to get a coffee and bun to watch this one out.
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I can rise above this:)
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Fri 24 Sep 10 at 10:27
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Damn... I'll just have to get on with the decorating then.
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Interesting L'es. I didn't know it was mandatory for dogs in public places to have a tag with the owners name and address on it. I wonder how many do.
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I think that was superceded by a later act that says collar and chipping will do.
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Our local paper reported some one was fined £150 for having a dog without a tag showing their name and address. Ours have house name, post code , house phone and mobile phone. Hope this is enough!
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Mine just has name of dog, telephone number, number of house, and postcode.
If you put all the details on, the poor dog would have to drag a dustbin lid around on its collar.
I was wandering along the canal path with Fifi on out normal daily constitutional, when we happened upon a little terrier that appeared lost, no details on collar. It attached itself to us with some alacrity.
It was a sunny day, so Fifi and I didn't stray far from the spot where our new friend had found us, hoping the owner would rock up. I looked at the fish basking in the sunlight dappled water, to the sound of the woodpecker working busily, while the overgrown rat yapped and repeatedly tried to hump Fifi, only dissuaded by the deft application of my boot.
A slightly overdone 50 year spinster comes puffing up the tow path, demanding to know why I had her dog, accusing me of stealing it.
15 minutes of exasperation at the antics of her disgusting little cur elicited a stream of pent up criticism, abuse and sarcasm from my mouth, punctuated, I seem to recall, by many "stupid cows" and "stupid little rat"
If it had details on its collar, I could have walked it home to its grateful owner and I could have accepted a nice cup of tea over a pleasant chat.
As it was the rat nearly ended up as jetsam in the canal. The owner wasn't far behind either.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 26 Jul 11 at 10:27
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Our older dog (8) had decided to become an escapologist recently, so tag was in much use. Have now increased height of all fencing to over 6ft using sturdy trellis and it seems to contain him - not sure how the fox is getting into the garden though, but he obviously is!
The younger one (3) has reacted to the change in the household by marking EVERYTHING in house, so is back in a puppy cage. Thought he was upset, but now decided he was making a bid to be the new top dog, along the lines of 'I rule the world' now the master has gone. Still attempting to disabuse him of that idea.
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Milo has neither tag nor chip, but he's a hound you see, when he was a puppy 10 years ago, I took him on a long walk up on Bodmin Moor where we used to live and he ran orf after something or other,
I returned home on a totally different route to whence I came, including crossing a river via fallen tree trunks, but in the early hours of the morning I heard a whimper at the door :)
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I live close to acres of parkland that includes a thirty-acre wood. Both dogs I've had were let free while I walked around carrying a dog lead, chatting to other dog owners (we're a sociable lot) and occasionally hearing the dog 'park' a squirrel up a tree.
They'd always come and find me before I'd get to the end of my walk.
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>> I live close to acres of parkland that includes a thirty-acre wood.
Not THE thirty acre wood Tom?
-:)
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Dogs on leads - Zero
