Non-motoring > Peoples Energy and Utility Point	Green Issues
Thread Author: helicopter	Replies: 87

New Tue 14 Sep 21 19:53   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - helicopter

Have both gone under....due to rapidly rising wholesale energy prices. I am with Utility Point for both gas and electricity. Advice given to me by Look after my bills and on MSE is to sit tight whilst Ofgem sorts out the mess . Apparently they will port the customers to another supplier and credit on accounts should be repaid. Anybody else in the same boat?? Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 14 Sep 21 20:11   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - sooty123

No, but I think these smaller companies go bust all the time. Happened to a relative earlier this year, think they got moved straight across to Npower and then they moved onto another company. It was all fairly painless. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 14 Sep 21 20:18   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - No FM2R

I assume that this advice is the one you saw. www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2021/09/utility-point-ceases-trading---here-s-everything-you-need-to-kno/ Seems like pretty solid advice to me. Worrying though, I expect. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 14 Sep 21 20:43   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - helicopter

It is just additional inconvenience of cancelling and changing direct debits Mark. I switched a couple of years ago from EDF where I was paying £117 per month to Utility Point via Look after My Bills and currently paying at £99 per month so thought I was ahead of the game on tariffs with LAMB selecting the best available at renewal time in June. So 2 months on their selection has gone down the pan. LAMB advice is to take a reading and sit tight until Ofgem do the transfer and then look to switch again to the best available tariffs but I now wonder whether it would be better to return to EDF who were offering a £75 incentive for me to re sign with them in June. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 14 Sep 21 21:01   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - No FM2R

Well, let's be clear, I have no idea or experience. However, I'd say that while you sit tight your credit, your account and your DDs are protected. If you move they may not be/probably won't be protected. So unless you think the 75 quid bonus covers it then I don't think I'd risk it.. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 14 Sep 21 21:09   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - Bobby

My dad was with some green energy company that went bust earlier in year and he was ported over to EDF in a similar method. Trying to port to another supplier at this time may not be the wisest move due to trying to get final bills / credits etc. My dad actually ended up on a special tariff that was cheaper than his Green energy company. But that finished at end of Sept and I literally have spent the last 2 hours trying to get quotes via MSE. Problem is EDF give bills 6 monthly but he hasn't been with them that long so having to trawl back through old supplier bills to try and get an accurate usage for comparison purposes. All new quotes however are through the roof - he is going to go from £99 to around £173 (with Sainsburys). That £99 was based on him having a credit carried forward and the aforementioned cheaper tarriff but I have told him to brace himself for a large final bill. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 14 Sep 21 21:32   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - Zero

In the meantime, you should not switch to another energy supplier until a new one has been appointed, which can take several weeks. In the mean time, I wonder how Octopus energy managed to supply 100% green energy to its customers when there was none generated for two days the other week? Most energy brokers are in danger of folding at some time or other when prices are volatile or supply is limited. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 14 Sep 21 22:07   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - smokie

I think many are in for a shock when their tariffs run out. Electricity, and more so gas, wholesale prices are through the roof. I was with iresa when they went bust and was eventually put onto octopus. Went fine, including balance transfer. On a tangent, friends with us at the weekend were using comparethemarket and coming up with what I thought expensive prices. Turns out they weren't quoting for their most competitive tariffs. I'm not anti the comparison sites but it is always worth doing your own research (e.g. for car insurance direct line and more than aren't included on those sites) Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 14 Sep 21 22:19   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - Bobby

Re car insurance. My renewal for both the cars was £580, up from £520 last year (Aviva) Did some quotes and new insurance is with Admiral. £440 and I get something like £40 cashback through Quidco. Think the reduced mileage has helped lower them but guess I just caught Admiral on a good day! Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 14 Sep 21 22:36   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - bathtub tom

>> Anybody else in the same boat?? Scheisse, I've just renewed with Utility Point. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 15 Sep 21 07:55   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - Dog

I recently switched to OVO via comparethemarket. I could have goddit cheaper, both Peoples Energy and Together Energy came up, but I decided cheapest ain't always best! Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 15 Sep 21 14:09   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - Zero

www.theguardian.com/business/2021/sep/15/fire-shuts-one-of-uk-most-important-power-cables-in-midst-of-supply-crunch Expect more brokers to fail Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 15 Sep 21 14:10   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - Robin O'Reliant

>> but I decided cheapest ain't always best! >> Your lights won't be any brighter by paying more. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 15 Sep 21 14:11   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - Zero

But they might go out by not paying enough Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 15 Sep 21 14:53   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - maltrap

I’m with Peoples Energy. I’ve switched suppliers numerous times without any problems,this is the first one to go bust.Perhaps not the last ! Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 15 Sep 21 16:46   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - Robin O'Reliant

I'd already started the process of switching from Extra Energy to Octopus when the former went bust. I was automatically changed to Scottish Power till the process completed, leaving SP responsible for the £80 I was in credit. it took eighteen months to get it back. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 15 Sep 21 17:07   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - John Boy

I’ve switched several times. The last was from OVO to Octopus. It took OVO 3 months to refund the £140 credit they owed me. I left because they kept sending conflicting emails about what my Direct Debit should be and made it really difficult for me to speak to anyone there. Quite a contrast from when I joined, probably due to the number of extra customers dumped on them by Ofgem. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 15 Sep 21 17:38   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - martin aston

I change suppliers every year or so. The last one I left was Avro a few months back. They went over the deadline to produce my final bill and then again in refunding my credit. Both failures should trigger automatic compensation but I only got it when I escalated a complaint. I see that Ofgem has just publicly asked them to provide certain financial information…….. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 15 Sep 21 18:19   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - sooty123

>> I change suppliers every year or so. The last one I left was Avro a >> few months back. They went over the deadline to produce my final bill and then >> again in refunding my credit. Both failures should trigger automatic compensation but I only got >> it when I escalated a complaint. >> I see that >> Ofgem has just publicly asked them to provide certain financial information…….. >> I'm in the same boat, having left AVRO. No one answers the phone or replies to emails, whereabouts did you find the info on deadlines for producing final bills etc? Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 15 Sep 21 20:47   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - martin aston

sooty re Avro I dealt entirely via email. The compensation is £30 each for late final bill and late refund. It's laid out with deadlines on the Ofgem website (try searching " Ofgem compensation"). It was a few months ago and I don't recall the details but I think Avro just needed you to send an email with complaint in the title with a brief summary of the issue and a request for compensation. This is annoying in itself as they knew they had failed and they should have issued compensation automatically. I eventually got my £60 but it took a few weeks to hit my account. Good luck. Last edited by: martin aston on Wed 15 Sep 21 at 20:47 Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 15 Sep 21 17:58   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - PeterS

>> >> but I decided cheapest ain't always best! >> >> >> >> Your lights won't be any brighter by paying more. >> Genuine question, as I steer clear of companies I’ve never heard of as a rule so never needed to investigate: If I’d signed a 2 year fix with Peoples Energy a few months ago (at say 16p / kWh) I am protected at that fixed rate for the remainder of the 2 year period wherever OFGEM place my account now they’ve gone bust? Or do I have to look for a new fix when the transfer is complete…? If so, I could be looking for a new fixed rate after 6 months (which could be 22p ish as rates have increased) and be far worse off than if I’d gone for a slightly higher price in the first place? Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 15 Sep 21 19:43   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - Dog

Um, I haven't actually switched to OVO yet. I've started the ball rolling, but Green Energy, who I'm 'currently' with, have put a block on the switch b'cos I'm £93 in debit (their fault) I've tried to 'cough up' the spondulics using the pay now button on my account, but it's not having it. Anyway, I've just done another comparison using MSE's cheap energy club. At the top of the list is e-on next, which is a new brand of E.on apparently. 2nd on the list is The Utility Warehouse. 3rd is SSE so, I may well kick OVO into the long grass yet. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 15 Sep 21 22:16   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - Ted

I don't buy in to all this direct debit business, I have a small number where the amount is fixed, water, car tax, insurances, etc. I like to control my own dosh so I set up payments online in full for the date the gas and leccie people want their money. No being in debt or them owing me. I was with NPower for the sparky stuff but they swapped everyone to Eon. I wasn't happy but decided to give them a chance. Not bad so far but not too happy with reading the meter monthly and being billed monthly. Been with Gritish Bas for years for gas. No problems ! I think all my bills are paid on-line apart from the wheelybin cleaner. Even the window cleaner and gardener prefer it. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 17 Sep 21 13:40   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - Dog

'King hell .. I've just read the reviews regarding OVO Energy on Trustpilot!!!!!!!!! I'm having my multi-fuel stove fitted next week and am seriously considering going back to the oil lamp. Anyone wanna buy a nearly-new Zanussi cooker with induction hob?? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 18 Sep 21 16:47   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - helicopter

BBC News - Four more small energy firms could go bust next week www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58610561 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 19 Sep 21 12:20   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - Fursty Ferret

Just fixed for a year with EON in a moment of panic yesterday. Works out nearly two hundred pounds cheaper than Octopus, even at 20p/kWh. Ironically it's now cheaper for me to visit the fast council-funded charger at 15p/kWh to top up the car than to use my own supply. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 19 Sep 21 12:43   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - smokie

Well done but you weren't looking at the right Octopus tariff then, I guess you were on a comparison site - as per my earlier post they don't use the cheapest necessarily. I'm paying 15.59 p for 20 hours and 5p for the other 4. 25p standing charge may be on the high side though, and you do need a smart meter (which they'll fit) - so that would work out probably about 75% of your EON cost (all my costs incl VAT). octopus.energy/go/rates/ Probably not too late to change your mind then you can use my intro code and we both get £50. share.octopus.energy/open-camel-464 :-) Last edited by: smokie on Sun 19 Sep 21 at 12:44 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 19 Sep 21 14:46   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - legacylad

I’m with Octopus...got £50 when I changed my old Mum from Ovo. At the time it paid for half a tank of petrol ! As I try to spend half the year overseas I suppose I should look at a tariff with a higher daily standing charge, but lower cost per unit of gas and electricity. Maybe I’ll contact Octopus before I go to Spain and tell them that Senor smokie advised such and such ! BTW my monthly DD to Octopus for gas & leccy is £60 pcm. Similar to my weekly UK bar bill..which reduces dramatically in Spain when my alcohol consumption falls dramatically. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 19 Sep 21 14:54   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - Bromptonaut

>> Well done but you weren't looking at the right Octopus tariff then, I guess you >> were on a comparison site - as per my earlier post they don't use the >> cheapest necessarily. >> >> I'm paying 15.59 p for 20 hours and 5p for the other 4. 25p standing >> charge may be on the high side though, and you do need a smart meter >> (which they'll fit) - so that would work out probably about 75% of your EON >> cost (all my costs incl VAT). The linked Octopus Tariff needs a SMETS 2 smart meter. If you've not got one already and need to wait for fitting, and that may be some time, then you'll be on a much more expensive interim tariff. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 19 Sep 21 15:30   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - smokie

Probably a fair point but the £50 introductory goes some way to mitigating that. So if it's a 3 month wait ( - which I doubt) then the £50 gift soaks up 3 months of the "excess" Octopus cost but you then have the benefit of much cheaper leccy (a comfortable 25+% less if you can load shift to the cheaper period). Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 19 Sep 21 22:52   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - James Loveless

Looks as if Bulb Energy may be next: www.bbc.com/news/business-58619418 Bulb is apparently one of the bigger players - "The UK's sixth largest energy company..." Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Sep 21 10:23   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - martin aston

And my current supplier Green is quoted on Daily Telegraph online as saying they may need help. I hope they survive as they have been very slick in transfer and are, of course, “green” although I realise that the actual electrons come off the mixed grid. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Sep 21 11:54   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - zippy

My folks have just been quoted about 29.7p per kw/h for electricity and 7.3p per kw/h for gas. Just about twice what they were on! Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Sep 21 12:23   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - smokie

Zippy - share.octopus.energy/open-camel-464 Last edited by: smokie on Tue 21 Sep 21 at 17:08 Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Sep 21 12:38   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - Bromptonaut

My current deal expires early in the New Year and has a nugatory early withdrawal charge. Deals on offer now are 50-75% more and many involve early end charges of £50-£100/fuel. Stick for now I think. Those charges suggest the suppliers think there's a high probability that prices will ease and there will be a rush for the exits. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Sep 21 16:54   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - Duncan

>> My current deal expires early in the New Year and has a nugatory early withdrawal >> charge. nugatory adjective of no value or importance. "a nugatory and pointless observation" Similar: worthless of no value of no importance unimportant inconsequential of no consequence valueless trifling trivial insignificant meaningless useless or futile. "the teacher shortages will render nugatory the hopes of implementing the new curriculum" Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Sep 21 17:02   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - Bromptonaut

£5 per fuel Of no value Inconsequential Etc. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 20 Sep 21 at 17:03 Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Sep 21 17:41   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - PeterS

See also antediluvian words and phrases seldom used in clear, concise communication ;) Though, the failure of these small ‘challenger’ businesses just show that sometimes cheapest isn’t best. If you’d signed a fixed rate deal with either of these companies earlier this you’ll be looking at a fix up to 50% more expensive when you find a new supplier. So what you saved in the first quarter of the year will be more than wiped out in the next 9 month… Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 20 Sep 21 at 20:03 Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Sep 21 18:19   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - Terry

My fixed price deal expires at the end of this month. I am currently with EDF as my previous supplier (Green Energy) went bust and EDF took over supply on the origial contract terms. Prices have gone up by ~£60-70 per month. Looking at their estimates it is ~£30 a month cheaper to simply transfer to EDF standard variable tariff (usually rip off) than sign up to a current fixed price deal. Bit daft but their standard tariff is set by the government based on prices (I assume) a few months old. I will simply transfer to the standard variable tariff. When a fixed price deal fall below the variable price I will sign up then (not necessarily with EDF). No guarantees, but I think the energy market is in "panic mode"at the moment so would not commit to a fixed price deal. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Sep 21 18:26   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - sooty123

No guarantees, but I think the energy market is in "panic mode"at the moment so >> would not commit to a fixed price deal. >> Very much so, but that's the way the markets work sometimes they can go into a blind panic. The interconnector that people seem to be in a panic about is due back to 50% capacity in a few days but not due back to 100% until next spring, however a 1.4 gw Interconnector from Norway has just opened up last week. I think things will settle down soon. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Sep 21 19:18   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - Falkirk Bairn

The real problem in the UK is that there has been very little investment in reliable 24x7 sources of supply. Closed in the last few years are all the old coal stations, bar 2 that are due for closure in the near future. Also closed are Nuclear stations that have died to to age or closed early on the grounds of cracking before the expected life of the plant. Hunterston & Dungeness are closed probably a few years earlier than hoped. The only significant investments has been in wind power which has for the last few months produced very little power. Come winter, if we have a cold spell that lasts for more than a few days - we will have blackouts. Other sources such as Hydro, tidal, etc are so small that they are useful but only for a few hours once in a blue moon. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Sep 21 20:33   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - sooty123

I don't think there is a lack of power capacity, don't forget the UK uses less power than it used to do, so there is less demand on the grid. Quite a few of the coal plants have been converted to use gas or burn biomass, so there's still capacity. What previous govs should have been doing is increasing storage capacity of gas, we are increasing on the end of a long chain, as N Sea sources reduce over time. We need to be able to ride out gas price fluctuations. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Sep 21 21:46   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - zippy

>> so there's still capacity. >> I mentioned above about my folk's new quote. I knew about the quote because I had to pop over to their house to work today as we had a power cut (lots of road works locally and someone hit the mains, wiping out the supply to 1,500 odd homes, a few factories and the hospital). I have just got home and Miss Z has said what a fun day it's been with power cuts and the generators not kicking in properly. Luckily there was just one patient on the table and they hadn't cut them yet so just manual supply of air required. Several people caught in lifts. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Sep 21 22:56   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - Manatee

Remember gas holders? I don't think there's much gas storage now. Gas is still needed for the biggest part of electricity generation. As I sit here at 22.48, nearly 50% of 27GW supply is from gas. Wind is what it is, currently 4GW, and nuclear just trundles along at 5GW. The remaining 4 GW is mainly net interconnect and biomass with a bit of coal. I shall be independent of gas (directly) in my new home. But is there is no gas, there'll be a shortage of electricity...I'm installing a log burner. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 20 Sep 21 23:43   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - zippy

>> Remember gas holders? I don't think there's much gas storage now. >> Most of them around here have have been removed and the land used as supermarket carparks, industrial estates and / or retail parks. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 21 Sep 21 06:37   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - Falkirk Bairn

>> I don't think there's much gas storage now. That is one of the problems. Currently we have about 4% of our annual usage available for storing gas. Unfortunately today it is not full. A few years back the Underground storage facilities in North Yorkshire needed an upgrade as it was "getting older" - the gas providers did not want to spend money and the government did not either so it was closed. The recommended storage is around 2+ months usage, even full we have 2 weeks. We are dependent on imports from Russia for some 17% of gas and imports by tanker from Qatar & USA. A US based son pays around 5 or 6p for 1 unit of electricity, he has very little gas usage and it's around 1/4 the UK price. That said, he is £4,000 + for his electricity per year (Aircon is not cheap to run) Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 21 Sep 21 10:08   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - Zero

I am going to install an M25 protestor anaerobic digester,* seem to be in abundant supply near me, should supply my energy needs this winter. I'll load up the CCV on the way back from Rendlesham forest this Saturday. Mind if the dogs find the UFO and it's power source, I'm sorted for life. www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-suffolk-54649675.amp * Now that is what I call people energy Last edited by: Zero on Tue 21 Sep 21 at 10:10 Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 24 Sep 21 07:45   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - sooty123

>> Remember gas holders? I don't think there's much gas storage now. >> >> www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-58650634 Stats on gas storage at the bottom. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 21 Sep 21 15:41   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - Fursty Ferret

Prices in Yorkshire significantly higher than the rest of the country. Their variable rate is going to 19.9p/kWh in October. I tried to join on the Octopus Go tariff for the Tesla but although they've fitted a smart meter it doesn't get any signal in my area and probably never will. EON have agreed to fit a SMETS1 meter with a SIM card to give me the cheap overnight rate. Voltage drop to the house isn't great but I'm not going to raise it with the DNO as their contractor conveniently failed to spot the fact that I'm at the end of a split power supply when he came to upgrade the fuse, and shouldn't be charging a car at all. At least I don't have to worry about the path icing up in the winter. Last edited by: Fursty Ferret on Tue 21 Sep 21 at 15:44 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 21 Sep 21 16:34   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - bathtub tom

I've just been contacted by EDF, who I've apparently been transferred to. They want a monthly DD of £165, just over twice what I was paying Utility Point! Gird your loins! Last edited by: bathtub tom on Tue 21 Sep 21 at 16:35 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 21 Sep 21 17:09   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - smokie

Did I mention share.octopus.energy/open-camel-464 ? Last edited by: smokie on Tue 21 Sep 21 at 17:09 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 21 Sep 21 18:27   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - helicopter

I have been transferred to EDF but not yet had a quote from them. I will wait and see what Look after my Bills suggest after the transfer to EDF is made. As I was prevously with EDF until 2 years ago it will be interesting to see how much the tariff has inceased from then. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 22 Sep 21 11:09   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - legacylad

I’ve been with Octopus for 18 months, and consider my gas & electric consumption to be low...£60pcm just about covers it. Bearing in mind I’m away for most of the colder months...and when I’m not I light my multi fuel stove every night which keeps at least one room toasty. Out of curiosity I’ve just checked my tariff..it’s Octopus Exclusive Fixed, term ending mid Feb 2022. Leccy 16.02 KWh, Gas 2.98 KWh, daily charges 20.64p & 17.85p. I suspect when the fixed tariff ends in 2022 my current costs for energy supply will have increased. It is what it is but think I’ll do a comparison at that point. Fortunately I’ve pallets piled high with free wood...I need to build another log store ASAP. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 22 Sep 21 11:28   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - martin aston

Watch out for any new supplier taking over from a failing one, attempting to put you on an unnecessarily high tariff. Apparently in most (if not all) cases their capped tariff (ie the one that the govt lays down) will be the cheapest. This is not the case in normal times. I don’t know how they can hide this and charge you more but if the internet chatter is to be believed, they can. Last edited by: martin aston on Wed 22 Sep 21 at 11:28 Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 22 Sep 21 15:10   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - zippy

Looks like my supplier Avro has hit financial difficulties. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 22 Sep 21 15:40   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - martin aston

Not surprised zippy. I left them earlier this year and they dragged their feet on my refund and they were trying to avoid paying out. They also disappeared off comparison sites a few months ago. After Avro I had a few weeks with Igloo on a variable deal and moved to Green for a fix when rises were foreseen. Green have collapsed today according to the BBC. Ho hum Not really an issue for me but those on tight budgets facing a 60% increase will suffer. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 22 Sep 21 16:28   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - sooty123

Just waiting on credit to come back from AVRO, hopefully not too long await. But I tend not to build up too much credit anyway, I think it's about 50 quid. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 22 Sep 21 18:00   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - helicopter

Avro energy and Green just gone... Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 22 Sep 21 18:16   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - smokie

It's all a bit miserable really isn't it, companies falling around us due to energy costs, COVID and BREXIT, firms and people needing to be bailed out for the same reasons, Americans not seeming to want to rush into a trade agreement with us, carbon dioxide shortages causing unforeseen problems, food shortages, global warming and climate change accelerating and probably a host of other things I've overlooked. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 22 Sep 21 19:10   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - Dog

"Always look on the bright side of life de de, de de de de de de. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 22 Sep 21 19:14   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - Terry

Energy companies going bust is just poor management. They were entirely capable of covering their risk by buying gas futures. They didn't - either incompetent or greedy - take your pick. Bojo, for all the bu115hit cannot tell the US (or any other large economy) what to do. If the US don't want a trade deal that's their call. That some companies have truly struggled over the last 18 months is no surprise - real question is whether they will "build back better". Brexit he should take responsibility for - and the shortage of HGV drivers is in large part a problem of his creation. He cannot really be held responsible for the existence of covid, merely the response to it. The only interesting point is CO2. How many other fairly obscure issues which fundamentally underpin normality in the UK are so vulnerable to supply problems. Easy to be wise after the event - far more difficult to anticipate. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 23 Sep 21 00:14   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - henry k

>>The only interesting point is CO2. >> How many other fairly obscure issues which fundamentally underpin normality in the UK are so vulnerable to supply problems. >> Easy to be wise after the event - far more difficult to anticipate. Oon the Maajid Nawaz slot on LBC this afternoon. www.globalplayer.com/catchup/lbc/london/episodes/BUr8MZBDGqPa5Rj6AaB9NWrYn/ 1:54 - 2.00 A guy with 30 years in the atomic power station scene listed about 10 key critical chemical supply requirements ( including CO2 ) for nuclear plants and how many days stock was held. All a bit worrying, I wonder if this was the real trigger for the deal rather than fizzy drinks and too many fat pigs on farms etc ? p.s. Just after that LBC item. Bojo says lamb can now be imported into USA. My USA friend says Americans dont do lamb. More smoke and mirrors? Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 23 Sep 21 05:48   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - sooty123

. >> My USA friend says Americans dont do lamb. More smoke and mirrors? >> >> > I didn't know that until the other day. Apparently they used eat loads of it until the 60s/70s then there was a big marketing campaign by the pork industry and lamb consumption fell to a really low amount. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 23 Sep 21 08:25   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - legacylad

>> . >> >> My USA friend says Americans dont do lamb. Neither do I. The fields adjacent to Casa LL are often full of them. I fall asleep and wake up to their bleating and simply cannot eat lamb. How illogical is that. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 23 Sep 21 09:01   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - bathtub tom

>>The fields adjacent to Casa LL are often full of them. I >> fall asleep and wake up to their bleating and simply cannot eat lamb. >> How illogical is that. Friends used to have a farm where they had around a thousand sheep. They then put up a couple of log cabins which they rented out for holidays. They would put the prettiest looking (don't ask) ewes and lambs in the field closest to the cabins. At least one family said they'd never eat lamb again. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 22 Sep 21 20:11   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - Dog

"When we launched Green in 2019, our goal was to modernise the UK energy market by bringing low-cost renewable energy to all of our members. It is with great regret that we are writing to inform you that Green is ceasing to trade, and that another supplier will be appointed by Ofgem to take over supply of our members. The current market conditions are unprecedented, with record wholesale energy prices pushing the cost of energy above the price cap. The fire at the National Grid interconnector site in Sellindge on 15th September led to wholesale electricity and gas prices reaching new record highs. Beyond the fire, 2021 has seen incidents at other production sites, unplanned outages, high demand for Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) tankers, Brexit, the Suez Canal incident, and the Beast from the East II to name but a few. This means that Green, like all other energy suppliers, are selling energy to customers at a loss. The price cap is calculated based upon a historic observation period, which means that it does not accurately reflect current market conditions. Over the past week, we have been vocal in calling out Ofgem and the Government for creating a regulatory environment which has led to five energy suppliers collapsing in the last six weeks. We wrote to Ofgem, the Prime Minister, the Business Secretary, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, together with 14 other suppliers asking for the energy price cap methodology to be reviewed and for an immediate support package to be assembled. Combined, the signatories account for over 1m customers and 2,000 staff. The letter accuses Ofgem of being unfit to regulate the industry, and of overseeing a return to a monopoly and a reduction in competition. Although Green, like many other small suppliers, have been accused by the Business Secretary of bad business practices, the reality is that the soaring energy prices are due to a global gas shortage. This global gas shortage has a significant impact on the United Kingdom due to low capacity and was predicted by the Energy & Utilities Alliance (EUA) in 2017 upon the closure of the Rough gas storage facility by Centrica. Additionally, there have been several other factors outside of Green’s control which have had a significant impact. Although much has been written in recent days about hedging positions, there seems to have been little discussion of the impact of government lockdowns, which changed customers usage patterns and led to greater domestic usage than anticipated. As a result, Green was forced to purchase additional energy at the prevailing market rate. During the pandemic, Ofgem also mandated that energy suppliers must provide payment holidays for customers and a relaxation of credit control - while still requiring that energy suppliers meet all of their payments. We have supported our members throughout these difficult times, providing payment holidays and being understanding of individual circumstances. Unfortunately, Ofgem’s ruling led to an increase in debit positions while Green still had to meet its industry obligations. Ofgem amended the balancing mechanism in 2015 through the P305 modification. The balancing mechanism manages imbalance prices, which is the difference faced by energy suppliers between the amount of electricity they buy and the amount of electricity they sell. The changes made to Ofgem - based upon their own analysis - led to energy suppliers facing higher average imbalance costs, and being more exposed to large spikes in electricity wholesale prices. The events of 2021 have led to many such spikes, which have further impacted upon Green. Finally, we would like to note that the Business Secretary was made aware of the threat to energy suppliers in March 2020 by Ofgem. We are now 18 months on from this letter, and to date no tangible action has been taken by the Business Secretary despite Ofgem stating that a ‘shock of this magnitude could mean that significant numbers of suppliers who have otherwise good business models may fail. To be clear, we are concerned that this may be significantly bigger in scale than recent failures and could involve larger, as well as small, suppliers. If the costs of any supplier failures are mutualised, this would also add to the pressure on suppliers remaining in the market’. We fear that smaller energy suppliers are being left behind by the Government, with rescue packages being put in place for larger suppliers and for private discussions to be held with the Business Secretary. There is a position in Government and Ofgem that smaller suppliers should be left to fail, despite the unprecedented increases in wholesale electricity and gas, the cost of failed suppliers being mutualised across the industry, and an outdated price cap methodology forcing smaller suppliers to sell at a loss. Our voice is not being heard - Ofgem and the Government seem intent on returning the market to the pre-deregulation state with only British Gas, EDF, E.On (including npower), OVO (SSE), and ScottishPower controlling the bulk of the customer base. With the exception of OVO who acquired SSE, the other suppliers have maintained a monopoly since the 1990s - which makes it difficult for any new entrants to thrive without having significant financial backing (e.g. Octopus Energy, Bulb). We would like to reassure you that your energy supply is secure and any credit balances on your account will be protected for domestic customers. Ofgem, the energy regulator, will be appointing a new supplier for all of our customers and their advice is to not switch until a new supplier has been appointed. I would like to personally thank each Green member for their support in realising our vision. I would also like to thank our staff for their efforts, and to wish them every success in their future endeavours". Kind regards, Peter McGirr Chief Executive Officer Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 22 Sep 21 20:32   Peoples Energy and Utility Point - Zero

In summary we embarked on an unsustainable business model and promised what we couldn't deliver. We are also blaming events that happened before we started Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 26 Sep 21 18:24   Avro Energy - Manatee

I wasn't aware but I assume Avro has gone bust as I have just had an email from Octopus saying they have taken over Avro's customers. I had a £200 odd credit balance with them so I hope that's carried over. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 26 Sep 21 21:24   Avro Energy - Robin O'Reliant

Looks like it - www.theguardian.com/business/2021/sep/26/octopus-take-failed-avro-energy-stranded-customers-ofgem Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Sun 26 Sep 21 22:01   Avro Energy - Manatee

Thanks Robin. "Outstanding credit balances, including money owed to current and former Avro users, would be honoured." Good:) Last edited by: Manatee on Sun 26 Sep 21 at 22:02 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 26 Sep 21 22:20   Avro Energy - Duncan

>> I wasn't aware but I assume Avro has gone bust as I have just had >> an email from Octopus saying they have taken over Avro's customers. I had a £200 >> odd credit balance with them so I hope that's carried over. >> I have had a similar message. I have a debit balance with them so I hope that is written off. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 26 Sep 21 22:49   Avro Energy - bathtub tom

>> I have had a similar message. I have a debit balance with them so I >> hope that is written off. No chance, unless you're imaginative with your meter readings. Not that I'm suggesting you do anything illegal............................................................... ................. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 5 Feb 22 10:35   Avro Energy - sooty123

Anyone got any further with energy companies that have gone bust? I've still had no message from them. No idea if I'm in credit or debit, I can't log on and no one answers the phone. Or is it a case of give up and forget about it? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 5 Feb 22 10:46   Avro Energy - bathtub tom

I was with Utility Point and cancelled my direct debit as soon as I heard they'd gone under. They'd just applied a considerable increase, although the first payment hadn't been made. I estimated we were just about even and i haven't heard a word. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 5 Feb 22 13:27   Avro Energy - Dog

I'm still able to log into Green Energy and see past bills, even though they ceased trading and I left 'em last Autumn. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 28 Sep 21 09:46   Cancelling Direct Debit - martin aston

My supplier has collapsed (Green) and as I am in credit which will take me well beyond my next bill, I cancelled the next Direct Debit. I know balances are guaranteed but I don’t know when/whether it gets credited to the new supplier or I have to wait ages for a refund process. Ofgem says I am able to cancel if I want. So I did. Coincidentally, an hour later I get an email from Shell announcing they are my new supplier and not to cancel my DD. My cancellation action can hardly be uncommon but there is nothing in their site to advise what to do next. I have tried their chat tool but its not been programmed to cover this either. It’s now been auto-forwarded to a back office who will deal. I am sure it will all work out but I feel sorry for the poor help desk staff and wish clearer advice had been given by Ofgem. Had I known the preferred process was for me to leave my DD live I would have left it. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 28 Sep 21 09:55   Cancelling Direct Debit - Falkirk Bairn

Shell will have taken over the running of the Green customer accounts. Green ran out of money - Shell has deep pockets so the money issues Green had are no more for customers at any rate. As such it will be running the same "Green Accounting" System for a few months - at some point they will transfer you on to the Shell Accounting system and transfer all balances & readings. Possibly closing the Green Offices etc at that point. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 28 Sep 21 14:04   Cancelling Direct Debit - Dog

>>Had I known the preferred process was for me to leave my DD live I would have left it Yup. I left my DD in place and this morning received my final bill from Green. I received the email from Shell too, but I start with E.on Next in a few days. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 28 Sep 21 16:47   Cancelling Direct Debit - smokie

£50 each if you sign up to Octopus using this link :-) share.octopus.energy/open-camel-464 Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 29 Sep 21 21:30   Cancelling Direct Debit - James Loveless

"£50 each if you sign up to Octopus using this link." Hoping to net quite a few fifties, are you, Geoff? Last edited by: James Loveless on Wed 29 Sep 21 at 21:30 Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 29 Sep 21 22:59   Cancelling Direct Debit - smokie

Of course! Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 30 Sep 21 11:14   Cancelling Direct Debit - James Loveless

I'm with Bulb. I got a quote (using actual consumption figures) from Octopus and it's within a pound or two of what I would expect to pay if I stayed put. If rumours are to be believed, Octopus may take over Bulb and save me the trouble of switching. Or I could do the switch myself and boost Geoff's retirement fund... Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 30 Sep 21 11:33   Cancelling Direct Debit - legacylad

Well he wouldn’t be spending the £50 on half a tank of petrol. More likely Port and grilled sardines in the sun Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 30 Sep 21 11:37   Cancelling Direct Debit - James Loveless

Such decadence... Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 30 Sep 21 15:19   Cancelling Direct Debit - smokie

Ha - not far wrong there LL. I don't really mind whether people are interested or not, I keep posting the link intending an amusing diversion (well, I think it's amusing anyway). To get their better rates you need to get a smart meter which some are dead against ( - why would one care who knows how much electricity one uses by the half hour? LOL) Anyway the tariff has now gone up. But they are still quoting me 24p for 20 hours and 5p for the others in a day which seems pretty good to me (especially if you load shift to the cheaper time) Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 29 Sep 21 16:37   Cancelling Direct Debit - helicopter

BBC News - Three more energy firms go bust amid gas price rise www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58732683 Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 30 Sep 21 08:03   Cancelling Direct Debit - Falkirk Bairn

My electricity contract with British Gas ends in a few weeks. Renewal came in and the DD is up by 1/3rd. Comparison sites, well the 2 I tried, were all not able to quote. Tried the supplier "bigger names" own sites and they were all more expensive than my uplifted DD amount for next year, some by a few pounds per month others nearly 2 x what I pay now. Wasted 30 minutes but at least I know that I am getting a "fair deal" considering the turmoil in the market. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 30 Sep 21 15:12   Cancelling Direct Debit - smokie

Comparison sites don't always quote 1) all competitors or 2) best rate. Having said that, they turned out best for me for car ins this year. Reply to this message | Report message