| Non-motoring > Working from home | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: legacylad | Replies: 23 |
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New Sun 12 Sep 21 10:19
Working from home - legacylad
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Here to stay ? Or just short term ? Friends with children in their 30s tell me that their employers, large nationals, are moving out of expensive city centre offices, downsizing out of town, getting staff in 2 or 3 days a week...I think it’s called ‘hot desking’. Working from home the remainder of the week. I don’t think it’s good if you have a job where you learn from your peers, you miss out on social interaction, but in certain cases it does work...friends children seem to be far more productive with zero commuting, can take the afternoon off, then return to their home office to work 6-9 pm. |
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New Sun 12 Sep 21 10:26
Working from home - sooty123
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I think it depends on the company, as I'd mentioned in the cv thread I know people who have no office to return to, so it's all wfh unless their employers re-lease more office space. Some seem quite keen to get everyone asap. I know one chap who hasn't been in since March last year, his office is a 3 hour drive away and isn't interested in being a weekend dad. So is staying at home until told he absolutely *has* to come in, he's 2 children under 6 so wfh works really well for him, his wife can back to work and he said it's so much easier juggling school runs etc. |
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New Sun 12 Sep 21 10:44
Working from home - Manatee
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There is a phenomenal amount of time wasted at work just socialising other than in controlled environments such as call centres perhaps. Eliminating that will probably offset a good part of the effectiveness lost through damage to learning and cooperation. That damage however will increase withe the increase in the proportion of people working remotely who have never met or spent personal time with their colleagues. That suggest to me that a hybrid is optimal, in which teams get together once week/month or whatever. I've a pension trustee board meeting next week using Teams - this has been the way for 18 months now. I thought it was working fine, but now I think it probably has weakened the process a bit. The basic bureaucracy of which there is a lot works OK but that 10 or 15 minutes we used to have before the meeting started, where the ice was broken, the lunch break, and the drink/meal afterwards where we would review the discussions of the day, were actually quite useful as part of the process for investment and policy decisions. Last edited by: Manatee on Sun 12 Sep 21 at 10:44
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New Sun 12 Sep 21 11:05
Working from home - Bromptonaut
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>> That damage however will increase withe the increase in the proportion of people working remotely >> who have never met or spent personal time with their colleagues. That suggest to me >> that a hybrid is optimal, in which teams get together once week/month or whatever. I think hybrid is the way to go and is what my employer is doing. The office is open Tuesday-Thursday with numbers in initially limited by social distancing considerations; we had allocated days. Now allowing greater numbers in as distancing is eased. Colleague in same days as me and I are fairly relaxed about distancing if looking one another's screens etc. We're both double jabbed and not likely to be clubbing or in mosh pits. New recruit joined the team last week with another to follow. Both will need to go through a couple of weeks of training modules but then 'go live' on phone and digital. I think they'll need to spend some time in the office doing observation. The last one in listened to recordings of calls but that's not the same as seeing the job done live. >> I thought it was working fine, but now I think it probably has weakened the >> process a bit. The basic bureaucracy of which there is a lot works OK but >> that 10 or 15 minutes we used to have before the meeting started, where the >> ice was broken, the lunch break, and the drink/meal afterwards where we would review the >> discussions of the day, were actually quite useful as part of the process for investment >> and policy decisions. We found the same in the quango; a lot of important discussion happened in the margins. When austerity bit and there were heavy restrictions on providing catering for meetings we made a business case for continuing to buy in a sandwich buffet at a cost of £60 or so. |
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New Sun 12 Sep 21 12:18
Working from home - Manatee
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>>a lot of important discussion happened in the margins. If I was the one taking a key proposal to a meeting I would always "socialise" it with the key people well beforehand and either make sure they were onside or understand their concerns sufficiently well in advance to try and deal with them. I would nearly always know which way things were going before the meeting started. You can still do that when WFH or more formally with 'stakeholder sessions' but it can be very effective to bump into people in the office, catch them in the dining room or at the end of another unrelated meeting when you sense it's the right time. Meetings always go better when people know the issues, feel reassured, and think their ideas have been listened to and understood. I've seen some disasters when people think they've been ambushed. Knowing and observing people face to face also helps with knowing what they really want - not just work objectives but personal things like recognition, control, the approbation or approval of their boss, or whatever. Sounds slightly Machiavellian but it's a basic skill for getting things done IME and therefore in everybody's interest. |
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New Sun 12 Sep 21 10:47
Working from home - No FM2R
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>Here to stay ? Or just short term ? Short term. It doesn't work very well and the shortcomings snowball. Also a significant disadvantage to career people. In a competitive group would you want to be the one working from home? |
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New Sun 12 Sep 21 10:53
Working from home - sooty123
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I suppose it depends on what we mean by WFH, 1 day a month, 1 day a month or totally from home. The term covers quite a wide range. |
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New Sun 12 Sep 21 13:31
Working from home - Falkirk Bairn
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A son works for a Norwegian company who have offices in the UK. He has been WFH for 18 months. Recently 2 days per week in the office and 3 days WFH. Change of job, same company - all "the team" are Norwegian but he will be WFH 95+% of the time for the next few years - commuting to Norway is actually quicker than London but a bit expensive. |
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New Sun 12 Sep 21 13:56
Working from home - No FM2R
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Those desirous of a career are likely to find their progression related to how much they are in people's minds, how well they build relationships, how quickly they perceive opportunities or openings and the speed they learn work skills not directly related to their current job, their ability to learn from other peoples experiences and their instant availability to seize opportunity. Good luck doing that from home. Were I in that position I'd never take the home option I guess if I had a job, no hope of or wish for advancement, wasn't scared of headcount cutting and was happy to focus on simply not being fired, then I guess it wouldn't matter much. |
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New Sun 12 Sep 21 15:11
Working from home - Terry
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Jobs come in all shades - standard WFH policies cannot be applied to all companies. There are negatives to WFH - developing informal relationships, embedding new starters, being alive to wider corporate developments etc etc. 5 day a week WFH may be damaging for most businesses if extended indefinitely. Equally many WFH benefitted from savings in time and money on commuting, and the ability to be far more flexible in integrating personal and work commitments. They are likely to want jobs that offer at least some WFH flexibility. A lesson taught through covid and lockdown seems to be an increasing value attached to non-job related considerations - family, social, health etc. Some remain ambitious for financial and career progression - but for some this is no longer the over-riding priority. Employers who want the best staff will have to accept they will need to find a compromise solution. Insisting on a 5 day office week will reduce the pool of potential recruits. With largely full employment (at present) job security is no longer a threat. A hybid arrangement will depend on the nature of the job, but may typically involve 2-4 days a week WFH. Meetings and colleague interaction will be scheduled for days in. This will not all happen as a "big bang". Large offices with dedicated personal desks will decline as leases come up for review and make cost savings possible. Not all staff will have home arrangements which make WFH easy, and need alternative solutions. A dogmatic view of the outcomes is probably the biggest mistake - what happens will be determined by the economy, markets and events. |
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New Sun 12 Sep 21 16:05
Working from home - sooty123
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>> Those desirous of a career At first I read that as delirious. I had this mental image of mad men stumbling about the place. >> I guess if I had a job, no hope of or wish for advancement, wasn't >> scared of headcount cutting and was happy to focus on simply not being fired, then >> I guess it wouldn't matter much. >> You been peaking at my assessments? :-) |
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New Sun 12 Sep 21 16:40
Working from home - No FM2R
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>>You been peaking at my assessments? :-) Not saying for one moment that it applies to you. But as a society we are very bad at valuing people who have reached a place they are comfortable with. WE should focus more on that. |
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New Sun 12 Sep 21 16:45
Working from home - sooty123
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Not saying for one moment that it applies to you. I know, I was just messing about. But as a society we >> are very bad at valuing people who have reached a place they are comfortable with. >> >> WE should focus more on that. >> Funny you should mention that, there is a whole set of work looking at that in my lot. How do we reward people who want to stay in specialised jobs but have found their career path blocked off because they didn't/couldn't be a generalist. |
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New Sun 12 Sep 21 16:54
Working from home - No FM2R
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>> Funny you should mention that, there is a whole set of work looking at that >> in my lot. How do we reward people who want to stay in specialised jobs >> but have found their career path blocked off because they didn't/couldn't be a generalist. In consulting we faced that problem given that the usual career path revolved around management and sales. We came up with a new career path and called them SMEs (Subject Matter Experts). A whole different path where the success criteria were quite different and designed to encourage people to stay in that role but take their subject knowledge to the very highest level that they could and to become subject mentors for others. |
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New Sun 12 Sep 21 17:00
Working from home - sooty123
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In consulting we faced that problem given that the usual career path revolved around management >> and sales. We came up with a new career path and called them SMEs (Subject >> Matter Experts). A whole different path where the success criteria were quite different and designed >> to encourage people to stay in that role but take their subject knowledge to the >> very highest level that they could and to become subject mentors for others. >> Pretty much looking the same way it's heading, however we are trying to deal with the short career/the whole up or out, which is proving tricky. |
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New Sun 12 Sep 21 17:23
Working from home - No FM2R
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| We did it to exactly avoid the up or out. It works very well. A side effect is that one begins to develop a centre of excellence which attracts other similar experts which eventually becomes an asset and sales tool in it{s own right. |
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New Sun 12 Sep 21 19:57
Working from home - Manatee
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>> Funny you should mention that, there is a whole set of work looking at that >> in my lot. How do we reward people who want to stay in specialised jobs >> but have found their career path blocked off because they didn't/couldn't be a generalist. It's a problem for technocrats also that they are not seen as people who can be generalists. The generalists in charge sometimes seem to resent the specialist for his or her deep subject knowledge and put them in a box that they can't get out of without moving. Equally you get people who are very valuable in a specialist role and actually worth more than their manager, although they don't always get paid more. |
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New Sun 12 Sep 21 16:22
Working from home - Bromptonaut
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>> I guess if I had a job, no hope of or wish for advancement, wasn't >> scared of headcount cutting and was happy to focus on simply not being fired, then >> I guess it wouldn't matter much. I am in that group as I have no wish for advancement. If I wanted it the opportunity is there. I have previously been 'tapped up' for a Supervisor post which was subsequently advertised. I'm well qualified and would happily take on formally the role of 'go to guy' for technical stuff. I've an absolute red line though at case checking the work of others. I had enough of that sort of thing in my previous role for a lifetime. I've simply not got the personality type for any form of man management. Been bad enough this week trying to help a colleague who was upset at what seemed to me to be sharply worded but reasonable 'tasks' given by another Supervisor. You cannot give good advice without first doing a through exploration. There's a five letter mnemonic to help with this and all five had not been covered; bang to rights as it were. If I were doing it though I could work at home with no disadvantage but I'd like at least a day a week in the office. I've worked before in places that were Viper's nests. I'd not have wanted to be outside the office then; a fortnight's holiday resulted in return with trepidation. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 12 Sep 21 at 16:24
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New Sun 12 Sep 21 16:38
Working from home - No FM2R
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>>I am in that group as I have no wish for advancement. Kind of. I mean, I can quite see why you think that way now but this is like your second go round, if you see what I mean. So your priorities are different. I totally understand and support where you are. But if you were 25 on your first time round I would hope that you had thought it through very carefully and understood the implications.. Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 12 Sep 21 at 16:40
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New Sun 12 Sep 21 21:26
Working from home - Bobby
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I have been working from home since coming off furlough a year ago. My work purely consists of sitting in front of a PC working through "cases" so when I used to work in the office, I commuted in to do exactly what I am doing at home. My civil service employer is very definitely planning on having WFH as a long term option. They have made modifications to the two offices and plan to allow some staff back in that need to for work purposes or personal (health / home environment) reasons. But after that they are talking about "hybrid" working and my personal preference would be to WFH ongoing and maybe have a couple of days in the office each month. However, that may change when the pendulum swings to a point that I feel that it may be detrimental WFH. If I start missing out on things "oh we got an update on that process in the office the other afternoon" or "anyone fancy hitting the pub after work" type of thing then that might convince me to head back. However the message currently, from the very top, is that WFH is definitely a long term plan. I am not currently looking to climb the career ladder so my whole work/life balance just now is absolutely fantastic. I also work flexi-time so WFH means I can walk dog, hang the washing out, not need to worry if any tradesmen coming etc. However, my son who is 22 and works for the Council has also been working from home since start of covid. He wants a career, he wants development and he is not getting either. He has no chance of being "recognised " at work, meeting folk from other departments round the coffee machine, hearing word of mouth about vacancies or anything like that. So we are both WFH, we are working next door to each other but we bith have totally opposing views on the WFH principle! |
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New Sun 12 Sep 21 22:15
Working from home - legacylad
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I know 4 people who WFH three days a week, then either go into the office or site visit the remaining days. It seems to work for both them and their bosses. I’m considering building an office over my 20’ x 20’ detached stone built garage. Not for my own use, but I’ve two friends who own timber/joinery shops and they can’t keep with demand for expensive wooden home offices aka posh sheds with power, light and water. Obviously it will bump up the price of my place when I come to sell, thus reduce the size of the potential market, but will be a positive selling point. I need to do a serious cost/ benefit analysis before progressing the matter. |
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New Sun 12 Sep 21 23:03
Working from home - Bobby
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My next door neighbour has had one of these "garden rooms" built. Built from scratch from wood and has PVC type external panelling. Watched the guy build it and he was obviously a serious talented and experienced craftsman (I can see why these guys use nail guns rather than power screwdrivers!) Anyway the room is so big, it is literally about 2m from the edge of the house decking, and has about 1m space around the other 3 sides to the boundary. No room now in back garden for a washing line or even a table and chairs. Yes it looks good and works for them but longer term, not sure if it is a selling point for the house. Me, on the other hand, when I got the extension built, I had to cut my concrete panel garage down in size and brick up the end that was cut (which had the garage door in it). So I currently have a man cave which has wood burner, dart board, beer fridge and some other odds n sods in it. But I am seriously thinking of giving myself a DIY project of lining it all out properly with stud, insulation, gyproc etc. I have seen some local trades guys advertising either garage roof replacement or, in some cases, they actually put a new roof pover the exisiting corrugated roof. I would hate to spend money kitting the place out only to get leaks from the corrugated (looks like asbestos but apparently isn't). I do quite often get condensation dripping, especially if I have had the woodburner (whose chimney goes straight up through the roof) but I have been told that this would stop if it was properly insulated. I would just need to decide what the end result was to be - was it to be a home office that I could work from or will it be an entertaining "garden room" (in which case why would I bring folks out the back through our extension with dormer windows and patio doors to sit in a garden room?) |
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New Mon 13 Sep 21 00:07
Working from home - Fullchat
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If you search Oakwood Garden Rooms on Youtube you will see garden rooms erected from start to finish. Quite interesting. The guy who builds them is a dynamo. If you could bottle his enthusiasm and sell it you'd be made. Get worn out just watching him on a project :)
Last edited by: Fullchat on Mon 13 Sep 21 at 00:08
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New Mon 13 Sep 21 11:01
Working from home - smokie
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| Nothing like as complicated I know but I had a new 8 x 6 shed earlier this year, onto an existing concrete base, and two blokes had it up, complete with roof, within 20 minutes of turning up - so including offloading etc. Quality bit of kit too! |
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