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Anybody know what is going on? All that was said here was a "major, non-terrorist-related, incident with multiple victims".
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I've read more comprehensive reports. Still, no doubt it'll get updated.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-58197414
Including a child. Never trust men with beards, specially unkempt scruffy ones.
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Where did he get the gun from?
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Relevance? Perhaps he had a legitimate ticket.
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Early news reports last night mentioned a shot gun, might therefore be licensed. I would hope that explains the death of a child as a result of scatter, I cant imagine anyone killing a child with a rifle or handgun.
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>> I cant
>> imagine anyone killing a child with a rifle or handgun.
>>
I can't either. But unfortunately it has been done (Dunblane and others).
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>> I cant
>> imagine anyone killing a child with a rifle or handgun.
>>
Reading the news paper reports it seems he did deliberately target the young girl.
Part of me wishes he didn't kill himself so he could rot in prison for the rest of his life.
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>>Part of me wishes he didn't kill himself so he could rot in prison for the rest of his life.
They don't 'rot in prison' though, at least not in this country. They get 3 meals a day, prompt medical care, free dental treatment, protected from other inmates who would do 'em, and are helped to 'rehabilitate'.
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Last year there were 408 deaths in prison, 80 of them were suicide. There were 55,542 incidents of self-harm from 11,843 inmates. There were 21,489 assaults on inmate and 7,979 assaults on staff 2,328 of the assaults on inmates and 748 of the assaults on staff were serious. All of those figures are a significant decrease (improvement) on the year before, up to 40%.
And what is wrong with rehabilitation? Other than it mostly not working, that is.
Prison is neither a good or successful thing. Making prison a worse experience would cause it to be considerably less successful in anything other than revenge.
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>>
>>
>>
>> Prison is neither a good or successful thing. Making prison a worse experience would cause
>> it to be considerably less successful in anything other than revenge.
>>
I'd not only like to see votes for prisoners, but the votes to count in the constituency of the prisons themselves. It would make those MP's who would be effected lobby for a massive reform of the system, something they don't bother with now because there are no votes in it. A prison term looks to be a dangerous nightmare for many who end up there, and as drivers we are all just a moments inattention away from a stretch ourselves.
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There are "hard" prisons, and there are "soft" prisons, and of course there are even open prisons, so it depends on what type of prison one spends their sentence in as to what sort of experience one will have while locked up.
Due to staff shortages, crims spend longer in their cells, which can lead to depression, hence the higher incidences of self-harm, suicide, plus the assaults
Experience has shown that if prison officers take a hard line with the inmates, then the inmates correspond similarly, so a "soft power" regime has been in place for the last 10 years or so. No doubt the prisons in South America are very hard compared to our penal institutions.
I met a Polish chap in Plymouth some years back, who said "you've got to put me in your prisons now" - he was alluding to the fact that Polish prisons, of which he had obviously 'visited', were somewhat very tough, compared to our prisons.
>>And what is wrong with rehabilitation?
= Colin Pitchfork.
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>> >>And what is wrong with rehabilitation?
>>
>> = Colin Pitchfork.
>>
Meaning no-one can rehabilitated?
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>> Meaning no-one can rehabilitated?
I think there are some people that will benefit from rehabilitation.
I also think there are people that will always be a danger to the public and should never get out.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 16 Aug 21 at 03:48
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Grab yourself a coffee and a few digestive biscuits and read this fascinating tale of failed attempts, later justified to get parole on claims of being "rehabilitated"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Bronson_(prisoner)
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 16 Aug 21 at 03:48
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I was aware of 'Bronson' he having spent some time in Hull prison. But it was interesting reading his full antecedents.
I pushed the boat out with chocolate oaties :)
Last edited by: Fullchat on Sun 15 Aug 21 at 10:35
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>>Meaning no-one can rehabilitated?
Monsters like Pitchfork shouldn't be - IMO.
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>> Monsters like Pitchfork shouldn't be - IMO.
How do we know that until we try?
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 16 Aug 21 at 03:49
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>>How do we know that until we try?
What I'm saying, sooty, is that because of the absolutely awful crimes he committed, he should never be released.
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>> What I'm saying, sooty, is that because of the absolutely awful crimes he committed, he
>> should never be released.
If he were sentenced today he'd probably get a whole of life tariff. There's no way of imposing that retrospectively and he's convinced the parole board he's fit for release.
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>>If he were sentenced today he'd probably get a whole of life tariff. There's no way of imposing that retrospectively and he's convinced the parole board he's fit for release.
It's amazing to learn how he was eventually caught: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Pitchfork
"On 1 August 1987, one of Pitchfork's colleagues at the bakery, Ian Kelly, revealed to fellow workers in a Leicester pub (The Clarendon) that he had taken the blood test while masquerading as Pitchfork. Pitchfork had told Kelly that he wanted to avoid being harassed by police because of prior convictions for indecent exposure. A woman who overheard the conversation reported it to police".
The Lord Chief Justice at the time of his sentencing said: "From the point of view of the safety of the public, I doubt if he should ever be released."
Nuff sed.
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>> What I'm saying, sooty, is that because of the absolutely awful crimes he committed, he
>> should never be released.
What is prison for?
- Deterrent? Doesn't work.
- Rehabilitation? Doesn't work often.
- Revenge? A waste of time and a pretty awful motivation.
- Punishment? Perhaps, but there are better punishments which would be a benefit to society rather than a pure cost.
- Removal of a danger from society? Reasonable and perhaps practical. But what if that person no longer represents a danger?
The bar should be pretty high and any benefit of doubt given to remaining imprisoned, but if the person is no longer a danger, is perhaps rehabilitated, then for what purpose should they remain in prison?
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>>- Removal of a danger from society?
That one.
I also think of all the relatives of killers like Pitchfork - imagine if he had 'taken' one of your or my daughters, how would you feel if you knew he was going to be released back into society.
Ian Brady and Myra Hindley. Fred and Rosemary West. Robert Black. Ian Huntley. Roy Whiting (Sarah Payne) I have a BIG problem with any of these child killers ever being released back into society (4 are dead, I know that) How can anyone ever forgive someone who rapes and kills a child??
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>> That one.
You say "that one" and then give two paragraphs of vengeance and revenge.
How I would feel is not relevant, it is about what is right, wrong and, to an extent, what is effective. I could not forgive someone who raped and killed any child, never mind my own. But that doesn't make me right.
Why would they be kept in prison beyond the point when they are any danger to anyone? What are you doing? Just having revenge?
There are various quotes from various people, including Jesus, Mandela, MLK jnr, Ghandi and others, no doubt containing some that is apocryphal, covering everything from "do unto others..." through to the judgment of a society by the way it treats those that wrong it.
Do you support the death penalty? If so, what purpose do you think it serves?
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 16 Aug 21 at 03:50
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We have no chance of an effective prison system, when rapists get 3 years, and train robbers get 30. When people with lazers on cars get prison and muggers get probation.
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>>We have no chance of an effective prison system, when rapists get 3 years, and train robbers get 30. When people with lazers on cars get prison and muggers get probation.
It is utterly ridiculous.
For anti-social and 'minor' crimes I'd start with a default of wearing an orange jump suit and cleaning up streets, scrubbing graffiti, garden care for those who need it, litter picking etc. etc.
Let's see how clever they feel when they're cleaning up s*** in the streets. At least then we'd be getting some benefit from them.
The crime, the criminal record and the attitude should determine the length of their service.
Prison is not a deterrent, it's not really a punishment, it's certainly not rehabilitation. It's more like college.
Prison should serve just the one valid purpose, keeps those people who are threat to others off the streets until they're not.
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>>You say "that one" and then give two paragraphs of vengeance and revenge.
Basically, I get very upset and angry at men who rape and kill children, it began with Sarah Payne 21 years ago so I'll leave this subject alone for now if you don't mind.
>>Why would they be kept in prison beyond the point when they are any danger to anyone? What are you doing? Just having revenge?
Probably revenge, I've not analysed my feelings fully.
>>There are various quotes from various people, including Jesus, Mandela, MLK jnr, Ghandi and others, no doubt containing some that is apocryphal, covering everything from "do unto others..." through to the judgment of a society by the way it treats those that wrong it.
Yup, I know all that, and more, it doesn't stop me thinking the way I do, alas.
Ah ... An eye for an eye (see above) :)
>>
Do you support the death penalty? If so, what purpose do you think it serves?
Well, I have a mental conflict with that one .. on the one hand I deplore the taking of any life for whatever reason but, in some circumstances, I would be prepared to be the one who 'pulls the lever'. It wouldn't necessarily be for revenge on my part, I can't in all honesty say what it serves, you'll have to come to your own conclusions on that score.
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Well, your answer is honest, and typifies the conflicts that most people feel, including me.
There is no answer which will emotionally suit us. Thus the only possibility is a logical and effective answer.
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Ruddy mess. They've named the idiot now.
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I assume he knew the victims, pretty rare to kick down a strangers door.
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Seems it started with a domestic argument with his mum killed her, he then went into the surrounding streets and a park firing, it seems, at random.
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Now seems he had his firearm seized as result of an earlier allegation of assault and subsequently returned . Oh dear! Referred to IOPC.
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>> Now seems he had his firearm seized as result of an earlier allegation of assault
>> and subsequently returned . Oh dear! Referred to IOPC.
It has happened in the past, this fairly local
www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/john-lowe-puppy-farm-murder-16475121
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All the talk on the London radio talk shows this afternoon went about him being some kind of 'woman hater'??? and going on about an underground cult against females rather than it being a domestic conflict.
Please can someone tell what on earth is this is relating to... seems many of the commentators were blaming the majority of recent mass killings of men hating women..
Really don't understand the link with these killings?
Also talk of why this is not being classed as a terror crime.
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He apparently hated his mum because she was a single parent and had posted on various sites that held incel views.
There's a school of thought that people who hold such views may go on to commit crimes based on these views.
Might become described as a hate crime?
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>> He apparently hated his mum because she was a single parent and had posted on
>> various sites that held incel views.
An incel, an abbreviation of "involuntary celibate".
Perhaps better known as 'onan'?
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>it crimes based on these views.
>>
>> Might become described as a hate crime?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel
Beginning in 2018, the incel ideology has increasingly been described as a terrorism threat, and a February 2020 attack in Toronto, Canada became the first instance of allegedly incel-related violence to be prosecuted as an act of terrorism
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>>He apparently hated his mum because she was a single parent and had posted on various sites that held incel views.
The Incel movement is all part of the belief that if anything in one's life is not how one thinks one deserve it, then it is essential that effort is put into identifying thee people to be blamed.
Recognising that there is any chance that one's own sad inadequate t***ness is to blame and that one should take responsibility for one's own behaviour and appearance is no longer accepted as a viable approach.
How these sad little inadequate nothings can conceivably believe that it is the female's fault for not finding them attractive is beyond me.
One can only thank the females for not helping them breed and multiply.
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>>sad little inadequate nothings
Sad, yes. Inadequate, quite clearly, but he's certainly turned out to be more-than nothing.
I'm sad to think that he was so deeply troubled in the head department, which people, including his Mother, knew and attempted to seek help for him, that he resorted to taking the lives of these innocent people - including that of a 3-year-old child.
Can I liken it to suicide bombers who kill innocent people who just happen to be there when he/she explodes.
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Not really Dog: suicide bombers have a deluded belief they are doing something for the greater good/their cause (like many IRA murderers for example).
This isn't an act to help the Incel community - it's naked hate and vengeance against those who "are at fault" for their own nothingness.
More akin to Thomas Hamilton in Dunblane.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Sun 15 Aug 21 at 08:45
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>>Not really Dog: suicide bombers have a deluded belief they are doing something for the greater good/their cause (like many IRA murderers for example).
Yup, you're right, Lygonos. Cheers.
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I fully expect that part of the public reaction to this will be more calls for tighter control or a complete ban on firearm ownership which will be a pity.
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If you didnt know.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-44053828
I prefer the old title. Sad Gits. Why does everyone have to get trendy with titles.
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>> I fully expect that part of the public reaction to this will be more calls
>> for tighter control or a complete ban on firearm ownership which will be a pity.
I dont see a requirement and therefore license, sporting or otherwise, for a pump action shotgun.
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Neither do I. It isn't a sporting gun, but unfortunately most non-shooters don't differentiate between a pump action and Over/Under or Side by Side.
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>> Now seems he had his firearm seized as result of an earlier allegation of assault
>> and subsequently returned . Oh dear! Referred to IOPC.
>>
Seems he went on some anger management course and had them returned.
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>> Seems he went on some anger management course and had them returned.
>>
We are all now very annoyed about that.
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It looks like he was into bodybuilding, i wonder if he was taking steroids.
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Wouldn't be surprised.
His pathological self-loathing was the bigger issue though.
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When someone applies for a shotgun licence the Police have to prove good reason for them not to have a licence rather than they good reason and justification to have a licence. Previous convictions can assist in that the argument. If there are none then the objection becomes more difficult.
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>> When someone applies for a shotgun licence the Police have to prove good reason for
>> them not to have a licence rather than they good reason and justification to have
>> a licence. Previous convictions can assist in that the argument. If there are none then
>> the objection becomes more difficult.
>>
When it comes to the medical bit, it varies from force to force. Some want to see a full report saying you've no issues, some are happy with no response from the gp (for whatever reason) and assume no response means all good.
Some like in Scotland, if they don't get the medical report in time, remove weapons into police temp ownership or hand them over to a dealer.
There's national guidelines of course, but it's seems its widely ignored.
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I'd loathe myself if I had a taliban beard and haircut like that.
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I hadn't heard in 'incels' until about a week ago when I saw it in a news feature. It just sounds like organised misogyny to me, and very much a thing of our times when hating is all the rage.
I have started to see the chosen implementation of Brexit as becoming part of that too.
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>>Now seems he had his firearm seized as result of an earlier allegation of assault and subsequently returned . Oh dear! Referred to IOPC.
Of course, because we insist on perfection. We don't want people interfering in our lives, or using intrusive methods to monitor us, but we insist that absolutely nothing bad happen.
The lot of the Police. Fckd if they do, fcked if they don't.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58226072
I see we are in the we must be seen to do something, how an earth trawling people's social media profile is going to work I've no idea. I can't see how that is going to work.
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>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58226072
>>
>> I see we are in the we must be seen to do something, how an
>> earth trawling people's social media profile is going to work I've no idea. I can't
>> see how that is going to work.
Well it would be criminally negligent to give a gun license to someone who blames women for all his woes and says he hates his mother and blurts it out all over social media.
I dont see how we can not trawl social media to judge the fitness of someone to have a gun license.
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How do you go about that? How long would it take to look for anonymous SM accounts and link it to the people you are checking on?
Not even vaguely practical.
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Of course its practical. You have a name, social media channels have search facilities. You are not search the web for an unknown, you have a name and location. If you gave me your name and location its the work of about two minutes to find out loads about your internet presence.
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... and not only is there the stuff you may have knowingly published about yourself but also a ton of stuff they can impute, using stuff like the time you spend looking at a particular site or page, your friends and whatever they may post (may give away your hobbies/political leaning etc) page, where you spend your time and a raft of other info.
Here's a demo of obvious stuff they can find. clickclickclick.click/#394b259c2dbb793c1e56d9457cc740c4
This site tells me that my "browser fingerprint appears to be unique among the 217,225 tested in the past 45 days" coveryourtracks.eff.org/ (and explains your computer's fingerprint)
Last edited by: smokie on Mon 16 Aug 21 at 14:07
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I don't get what this site is supposed to do.
It tells me things like "You opened in Firefox. You opened in Chrome." Neither is true.
The rest of it how I've supposed moved my mouse in the last few minutes etc, apart from two mysterious statements: "Subject has zigzagged. Subject has tried to drag the body."
WTF?
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I noticed some glitches after posting it - but it's demonstrating how much of what you do at your screen can be (and probably is being) monitored.
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>> Of course its practical. You have a name, social media channels have search facilities. You
>> are not search the web for an unknown, you have a name and location. If
>> you gave me your name and location its the work of about two minutes to
>> find out loads about your internet presence.
>>
Did if they don't use their real name?
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>> Did if they don't use their real name?
That struck me too. I use my own name on Facebook and Twitter, though I only follow people on the latter, but on forums I'm pseudonymous. Usually but by no means exclusively the name I use here.
The Plymouth shooter seems to have posted on You Tube under his own name. Did he use that in incel forums?
I'm not saying a quick check of internet presence has no value but it may only be of limited use.
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>> >> Did if they don't use their real name?
>>
>> That struck me too.
Bright is not usually their middle name. There are usually clues and links from real names to monikas, and viccy vercy.
Seriously, its not hard, And it needs to be done if you are giving someone a firearm ticket.
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OK, I'll believe it when I see it.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 16 Aug 21 at 20:03
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>> OK, I'll believe it when I see it.
>>
Well it seems like my post showing you has been removed
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I did mail you to explain, also Sooty to see if he wanted it to stand. To the emails you are registered here with... :-)
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>>I'm not saying a quick check of internet presence has no value but it may only be of limited use.
I'd suggest it should be like interviewing for a job; a reference or two, a search or two, and a meeting face to face.
However, we need to understand that it can never be perfect. Either we will not allow a licence to someone who should have had one, or we will allow one to someone who should not.
The trouble is that either will result in wails of indignation from the tabloids no doubt much to the joy and resulting clamour from their readers.
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All they are saying is that someone's online history should be part of the background checks that are carried out before a license is issued.
If there is no obvious history they tick the box that says "No online history discovered." If the applicant is posting hate/violence related stuff they tick the box that says "Nutter - more checks needed."
Reading someone's social media posts is NOT "Invasion of privacy" as the Chief Constable purports to believe and would have caught this one out.
Personally, I think that when plod sees a firearm transfer of a pump action to an individual living in a 3 bed semi it should start alarm bells ringing.
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>>Personally, I think that when plod sees a firearm transfer of a pump action to an individual living in a 3 bed semi it should start alarm bells ringing.
For all you know they may live next door to Zero.
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Well, we could have a different alarm to send a car around to make sure that he has plenty of cartridges.
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>> >>Personally, I think that when plod sees a firearm transfer of a pump action to
>> an individual living in a 3 bed semi it should start alarm bells ringing.
>>
>> For all you know they may live next door to Zero.
Is there a group of madmen who have been radicalised by lack of hair? Inbalds or something?
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 16 Aug 21 at 23:25
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>>Personally, I think that when plod sees a firearm transfer of a pump action to
>> an individual living in a 3 bed semi it should start alarm bells ringing.
>>
I recall an episode of "The Thin Blue Line" when Rowan Atkinson's character refused an application for a fire arms licence on the premise that anyone wanting a gun must be mad.
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>> I recall an episode of "The Thin Blue Line" when Rowan Atkinson's character refused an
>> application for a fire arms licence on the premise that anyone wanting a gun must
>> be mad.
>>
Which, more or less, sums up the way I feel about it.
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Lot to be said for that view in a town or city. My next door neighbour is certainly quite sane and has legitimate use for his shotgun.
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>> Lot to be said for that view in a town or city. My next door
>> neighbour is certainly quite sane and has legitimate use for his shotgun.
>>
Of course. Farmer, game keeper etc. Fine.
Crane driver - no. If you want to shoot then join a club and leave the weapon there.
Last edited by: zippy on Tue 17 Aug 21 at 18:43
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The only use for a gun is to shoot. If you cannot explain what you will shoot, where you will shoot it and why you will shoot it then you shouldn't have a gun at all.
And your answers should inform not only the decision about what, if any, gun you can have but also where you must keep it.
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>Crane driver - no. If you want to shoot then join a club and leave the weapon there.
And that is the typical reaction of someone who knows nothing about the sport. Never seen it, has no interest in it, but wants to punish tens of thousands of people because of one nutter who should never have been granted a certificate.
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>> And that is the typical reaction of someone who knows nothing about the sport.
There are a number of places locally where folks shoot clays, probably pigeons too. What would you use for rabbits?
I doubt there's any sort of facility to leave the guns anywhere; that's more a feature of target shooting.
If the reports that he used a pump action shotgun are correct AND that was what he was licensed for then AIUI he'd have needed a full firearms certificate, not just a shotgun permit.
I guess a relatively minor assault charge (which lets face it some of us here will have a record for) disposed of informally would not be enough to do anything more than suspend a licence until the charge was disposed of.
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>> If the reports that he used a pump action shotgun are correct AND that was
>> what he was licensed for then AIUI he'd have needed a full firearms certificate, not
>> just a shotgun permit.
>>
It depends on how many cartridges the pump action shotgun can hold. Up to 3 =Shotgun certificate. Above 3 = Firearms certificate.
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If the reports that he used a pump action shotgun are correct AND that was
>> what he was licensed for then AIUI he'd have needed a full firearms certificate, not
>> just a shotgun permit.
>>
>
All depends on what type, think it's all around capacity. 3 or less cartridges and you can put it on a shotgun certificate, i believe.
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>>
>> ...I guess a relatively minor assault charge (which lets face it some of us here will have a record for) ....
>>
...something you'd like to say, Bromp....?
(maybe Mark will have to be a bit more restrained ;-) )
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>> I guess a relatively minor assault charge (which lets face it some of us here will have a record for)
You mean Zero I guess. I agree, he's a stroppy b******.
Not calm and pleasant like the rest of us.
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Mistaken Identity guv, honest.
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>There are a number of places locally where folks shoot clays, probably pigeons too. What
>would you use for rabbits?
I shoot clays, not critters, so I've no experience of real (not clay) pigeon or rabbits. However, I think that pigeon are mostly shot over farmland with the largest daily numbers being shot just after grain has been harvested. Locally, rabbits are shot at night with a .22 and a strong lamp. I doubt that a shotgun would be much good since their range is only about 40m and they make too much noise. You would need to give the rabbits ear defenders before shooting 'em.
>I doubt there's any sort of facility to leave the guns anywhere; that's more a feature of
>target shooting.
Some ranges have storage facilities but they are invariably the big shooting schools who cater for corporate days and official events like The Royal Berks. The average shoot is a small operation that only holds a shoot once per fortnight, usually Sunday mornings. They do not have the facilities (permanent building with strong room, alarms, dealer certificate etc.) or income that would be needed for safe storage of multiple guns.
>If the reports that he used a pump action shotgun are correct AND that was what he was
>licensed for then AIUI he'd have needed a full firearms certificate, not just a shotgun permit.
Already answered but I would add that pump actions are almost universally frowned upon by clay shooters and probably not even allowed at the majority of shoots. Reasons being that: a) It is more difficult to see that the gun is safe. b) There's no real 'sporting' purpose for a pump action unlike the alternative semi-auto which is often used by smaller folks or those with a disability because of reduced weight and recoil.
IMO, members of the public who buy pump actions are Rambo wannabees but maybe I'm a snob.
>I guess a relatively minor assault charge (which lets face it some of us here will have a
>record for) disposed of informally would not be enough to do anything more than suspend a
>licence until the charge was disposed of.
I was under the impression that even a minor assault charge would need a damn good explanation before being granted a certificate and is good enough justification for revoking one. I suppose it might depend on circumstances.
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>> >Crane driver - no. If you want to shoot then join a club and leave
>> the weapon there.
>>
>> And that is the typical reaction of someone who knows nothing about the sport. Never
>> seen it, has no interest in it, but wants to punish tens of thousands of
>> people because of one nutter who should never have been granted a certificate.
>>
To be fair, I did add etc. which suggest there are other groups of valid owners.
Even shooting clubs aren't safe though. An ex-soldier stole an automatic rifle from a local club and killed his estranged wife, mother in law and their dog by shooting in to the house from outside (was <1 mile from where I used to live).
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>> An ex-soldier stole an automatic rifle from a local
>> club and killed his estranged wife, mother in law and their dog by shooting in
>> to the house from outside (was <1 mile from where I used to live).
>>
Are you in the UK? If so it wasn't an Automatic rifle that was stolen from a club.
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>>Even shooting clubs aren't safe though
Nowhere on the planet Earth is 100% safe from anything anywhere.
Guns exist. That's a fact. You can make that existence pretty safe but there is no way of guaranteeing that a nutter never shoots somebody. Banning guns is impossible. Bear in mind the war on drugs, prohibition etc. etc.
But we increasingly live in a society which thinks other people even being annoying should be banned, anybody doing something that they don't want to do should be banned, but that they should be allowed to do anything they want as it is their right.
We have politicians and other public figures that have become terrified of saying the right thing with the tabloids and their baying crowds desperate for the opportunity to gang up n them when they do but who will cry immediately for their rights of free speech if anything they say on social media is deleted.
Everybody wants the law to deal with everything they don't like but insist that it doesn't intrude on their lives.
I've never been a big fan of society, even less so these days.
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The authorities need to address the illegal guns (which they can't do) and stop having knee jerk reactions against legitimate licence holders pursuing their chosen sports.
Given the fact that nearly all small crimes don't get any attention then the stuff that matters really don't matter does it!
Example: A local shop to here got broken in to. Several of the locals knew who the perps were. Plod not interested. They never visited site. Plod called the young lady proprietor some 4 weeks later to say that they had closed the file. 'eefin marvellous she said considering the fact that you've never opened one! The whole situation is pathetic with the young yobs basically running the show.
AND remember that this is rural Devon.
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There is no real "gun issue" per say in the UK, shootings here are rare and considerably rarer than most other countries. Nothing to fix, move on, nothing to see here.
Knives however. Ironically thats because we dont have a gun issue.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 20 Aug 21 at 20:05
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>> I've never been a big fan of society, even less so these days.
Never join a club that would have you as a member
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>> Never join a club that would have you as a member
Caravan club? Working dogs club?
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Keyham, Plymouth - Manatee
