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Ongoing debate.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 10 Sep 21 at 10:54
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Thought for the day ? Get jabbed !!
Woman aged 90 died with double variant infection
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57761343
Meanwhile has arrived.he report on my latest blood test.
"SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus antibodies resulting from infection were not detected in your blood sample.
This indicates that you are unlikely to have been infected with SARS-CoV-2 in the last 6 months.
However, it is possible to have been infected and still receive a negative antibody result.
This can happen because a person's antibody levels are too low (especially if the infection was several months ago) for the test to detect them"
I will cntinue to keep away from as many folks as possible.
As I am once again needed to stay at home on SWMBO duties it will not be difficult.
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>> will cntinue to keep away from as many folks as possible
Friends in London (both out-and-about peeps) have this week tested positive for Covid19.
Both had their Tizer jabs some months ago and both are now feeling a tad ill with the infection.
Last edited by: Dog on Sun 11 Jul 21 at 11:45
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Is it the jabs what made them ill? It did me after the second jab.
Also the test is not worth the paper it is written on.It was never designed for mass testing in the first place Dog.
People round here still wearing muzzles in the fresh air and all the S they breath in from their own mouths.
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>> People round here still wearing muzzles in the fresh air and all the S they
>> breath in from their own mouths.
Wish someone would muzzle you. The S is only coming one way from you.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 13 Jul 21 at 12:54
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>> Wish someone would muzzle you.
I just have done so. His trolling of this forum is getting too much.
Vx.
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>> Is it the jabs what made them ill? It did me after the second jab.
A reaction after this jab is possible just as with flu or tetanus. Being inoculated doesn't stop you catching symptoms but your immune system is primed and ready to go.
>> Also the test is not worth the paper it is written on.It was never designed
>> for mass testing in the first place Dog.
Did Dog even say what test? The LF one has more error margin. It may, in part, be down to the user being less than robust with the swab. On the other hand it's quick, easy and cheap.
>>
>> People round here still wearing muzzles in the fresh air and all the S they
>> breath in from their own mouths.
You really are a prize chump.
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>>Did Dog even say what test?
Good point, and I don't know the answer to that one, but I'll find out.
Update on their condition .. they have both lost their sense of taste and smell, plus feel quite poorly as if they have a bad cold.
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>>I'll find out.
They do LF bi-weekly. Tested positive and had it confimed with a PCR at their local test centre.
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Two weeks on now from contracting the Chinese virus and still no sense of taste or smell.
Hoping to visit their friends in the sowf of France at the end of August, but starting to give up hope with that one.
My suggestion of hopping over via Spain and coming back to UK on a dinghy didn't go down too well
:D
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I see the moderators in here remain comfortable with lies and misinformation.
Dutchie, why don't you and the rest of your family p*** off and infest somewhere else with your disease? You are worthless.
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>> I see the moderators in here remain comfortable with lies and misinformation.
See comment above.
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>>
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>> Dutchie, why don't you and the rest of your family p*** off and infest somewhere
>> else with your disease? You are worthless.
>>
What makes you think it's Dutchie?
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I was curious about that too. Dutchie's not posted here for some time.
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A tested guess, language, writing style, lack of intelligence, age, friendship with doggie, process of elimination, and a gut feeling.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 12 Jul 21 at 21:17
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>> A tested guess, language, writing style, lack of intelligence, age, friendship with doggie, process of
>> elimination, and a gut feeling.
Dutchie's last post in their own name was in December 18.
Given their accounts of their own health and that of their OH I'd assumed that like Armel Cousine they were on the C4P roll of honour.
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So believe I'm wrong if you prefer, maybe I am wrong. I will not be defending my opinion.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 12 Jul 21 at 21:46
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As ever, I'm thinking evidence.
I'm still inclined to the view that, in the absence of a link via logins or IP address, that the Smurf is fluffy as well as blue and is the sick puppet and wind up tool of an established regular poster.
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Any idea what the dutch translation of schtroumpf is?
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>>an established regular poster
The only person of sufficiently low intelligence is doggie. Doesn't seem like it would be worthwhile for him to impersonate someone so similar.
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>>Is it the jabs what made them ill? It did me after the second jab.
No, they had their jabs some time ago. They are always out-and-about somewhere or other.
She's late almost 70 and he is in his early 60's. He tested positive the day before her, so it's possible they both contracted the Chinese virus at the same time.
Plenty of psychologically-controlled sheeple (muzzled) here in Cornwall - wearing masks out-and-about walking in the fresh air.
Best to let them get on with it IMO. The government/MSM has instilled fear in them, poor souls. I actually heard someone refer to face masks as 'comfort blankets', yeah, I can go along with that :(
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"Chinese virus"
It seems that all ignorant racist t***s use such terms to try to paper over their own low intelligence and social inadequacy.
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There is a go/no go meeting this week for a local village show, provisionally scheduled for 7th August.
I fear the only 'safe' decision at this stage will be no-go. 'Go' means starting to rack up costs and whilst I don't feel especially worried for myself or the boss (double-jabbed and almost certainly had it) I can envisage Johnson coming unstuck here with 35,000 new cases a day and rising. The 'football boost' won't help. Or will. depending on your views on herd immunity!
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>> There is a go/no go meeting this week for a local village show, provisionally scheduled
>> for 7th August.
>>
>> I fear the only 'safe' decision at this stage will be no-go. 'Go' means starting
>> to rack up costs and whilst I don't feel especially worried for myself or the
>> boss (double-jabbed and almost certainly had it) I can envisage Johnson coming unstuck here with
>> 35,000 new cases a day and rising. The 'football boost' won't help. Or will. depending
>> on your views on herd immunity!
having run the first full dog show since covid lockdown recently, I can say it went very well and the attendees very appreciative. I can also say you really dont need all the extra agro and expense that covid precautions bring so if you can, dump it off to next year
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The village shows near the house I'd say were 50/50 in terms of already having cancelled or ploughing on, all due in the next 2-4 weeks. We shall see.
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www.france24.com/en/europe/20210712-follow-live-france-s-macron-addresses-the-nation-as-covid-19-delta-variant-surges
In France you'll need a proof of vaccination to do all sorts of things such eat out, go to the cinema, long distance train ride etc.
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I have just discovered the perfect Coronavirus sport...
Fencing!
You wear masks.
You wear gloves.
You get to stab anyone who gets closer than 2 meters!
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You are 100% wrong and I know why.
Daughter #1 has been fencing for years, though in later years it's mostly been only once a week. IT's given way to the Muay Thai mostly.
However, she practices regularly but for the last 18 months all the gyms have been closed. So she has wanted to practice at home, for which she borrowed extra masks, gloves, and body-pad thing in big adult size.
"I'll be gentle", "It won't hurt", "I just need someone to wave around in front of me to practice movements against, not stabbing", "It's easy", "you'll enjoy it".
All lies.
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I will miss social distancing. I've rather appreciated that people have been required to stay out of my space.
;-)
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Oh 100%.
Chileans are no respecters of personal space and I've been fighting for my space for years. Now I don't need to.
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>> 2 meters!
Gas, electric, or AN Other?
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Now here's a thing.
Felt a bit off on Sunday. Felt rough as s*** Mon/Tues, drained, aching, highish temperature, diarrhea and a cough.
Had to do a long drive on Wednesday which I couldn't easily avoid. Still felt rough, but less so, and did the drive, it wasn't pleasant.
Got up this morning feeling quite a lot better, not perfectly better but mostly so. I just thought it was a particularly s***ty cold but I suddenly realise I have absolutely no sense of taste or smell.
I know I did last week on Tuesday because one of the daughters was making marmalade and the orange smell was through out the house. I am now thinking that stuff wasn't tasting properly towards the end of last week but I might be retrospectively imagining that.
I did feel very ill, much worse than a normal cold, but only for 2 or 3 days. I didn't think much of it until this taste/smell thing.
I am vaccinated as is everybody around me, and getting tested would be difficult, but I do wonder.
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Talking to my sister yesterday. She's not a medic but is involved at a fairly senior level in managing the vaccination programme in the East Midlands. She will have good sources from the Doctors etc.
Says the vaccine does not prevent you catching or spreading. What it does do is prime the immune system to react and deal with the infection. You still feel s***ty, like flu, but are far less likely to require hospitalisation or ICU treatment.
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>>Says the vaccine does not prevent you catching or spreading
I don't think there are strong figures yet to say how much it mitigates milder or asymptomatic infections.
I have seen a few patients with Covid despite 2 vaccines, but the rates are low, and hospitalisation/death is very low compared to the Jan/Feb surge.
Most of the ICU Covids are unvaccinated patients.
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It would appear that the younger are absolutely right not to worry about dying from COVID-19.
Their risk would seem to be what happens after surviving it.
www.bbc.com/news/health-57840825
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 16 Jul 21 at 19:32
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>Their risk would seem to be what happens after surviving it.
Natural Selection for antivaxers?
www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210513/coronavirus-lingers-in-penis-and-could-cause-impotence#1
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>>Natural Selection for antivaxers?
You'd hope so. COVID-19 isn't half as IQ sensitive as I wish it was.
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If I was young and even more stupid, even if I didn't really believe in the value of population vaccination, this article would scare me into it.
www.bbc.com/news/health-57833394
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And visited a care home last week IIRC.
www.bbc.com/news/uk-57874744
Double jabbed too...
Only one of those unreliable LFTs so far but if confirmed I sincerely hope he just remains "a bit groggy", I wouldn't wish the whole shebang on anyone.
Well, not many anyways......
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>>Double jabbed too
Let's say he had AZ. I think that is something like 75% effective against symptomatic COVID-19. That means that 25% of people are still going to get it. Media headlines are going to be pretty busy reporting each one of those.
I am reasonably sure I just had it myself, I still have no sense of smell or taste. But I was only properly ill for three days. That's what the vaccines are supposed to do.
It's also why the media obsession with case rates is excellent tabloid headline material but otherwise meaningless.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 17 Jul 21 at 18:38
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It's also why the media obsession with case rates is excellent tabloid headline material but
>> otherwise meaningless.
>>
I think the media became so addicted to reporting the daily figures they don't know when to stop.
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Their audience is much the same. But they'll have to stop one day.
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Boris and Rushi were pinged but will not isolate. They are going to be part of a trial allowing them not to.
Last week my son got married outdoors, with a COVID plan in place. Had he or his now wife been pinged the ceremony would have been cancelled at huge emotional and financial cost.
Our politicians are unbelievable. If it’s vital that they work on then let them say so but to dress it up as part of a trial is ridiculous. I don’t subscribe to the “if they can do it so can we” but surely huge numbers will now ignore being pinged. Many of course already have turned it off.
What a contrast to Mrs Windsor and Philip’s funeral. I am not a huge fan but her example puts politicians to shame.
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In early June Gove also took advantage of a "new" scheme to avoid isolation on return from a trip to watch a match in Portugal.
They are quite a cynical bunch really, seeming to make up rules as they go along - not just on this either.
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>> Boris and Rushi were pinged but will not isolate. They are going to be part
>> of a trial allowing them not to.
Times Radio is reporting that both have now said they will self isolate.
The PM is at Chequers so no great pain for him.
Astonishing though that both thought they could get away with being in a scheme for which people are selected at random. It seems to have taken a public backlash over the last few hours for them to 'get it'.
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Of course, the figures are still relevant as they are a barometer of how the country is doing. I don't think they should bother drawing conclusions, allow the general public to reach their own. Half the population doesn't read any proper news anyway.
Interesting that the Beeb have still got a BREXIT tab on their Home news page, I wonder how long that will be there? www.bbc.com/news
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>> Interesting that the Beeb have still got a BREXIT tab on their Home news page,
>> I wonder how long that will be there? www.bbc.com/news
We may have exited but the consequences continue; reports on that tab include the NI protocol and Lord Frost's ongoing negotiations.
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>>Of course, the figures are still relevant as they are a barometer of how the country is doing
Not exactly.
Do you know how many cases of bad colds there were last year? Of course not, the number of people who catch a cold has no relevance. It lacks relevance because the link between catching a cold and ending up in hospital, or dying, is very, very low. Though not nil.
If there were to be a relevance to the number of cases of colds it would be when they started to impact the health service.
With COVID-19 the ration between cases, hospitalisations and deaths has entirely and significantly changed - a combination of vaccinations, improved treatments, and the age & health of people catching it.
So number oi cases is of much less importance or relevance now, and as a standalone figure it is of no use.
What matters are hospitalisations and deaths.
Any comment saying "The second apocalypse is coming because cases are now n per day" is ridiculous. There will probably always be hundreds of thousands of cases of COVID-19 every year. And that simply doesn't matter per se.
We have to now become accustomed to living with COVID-19, because it is NEVER going to go away. Every years loads and loads of people will get it. It will become normal. The vulnerable will learn to avoid it and many will regard routine and probably annual vaccinations are the way to go.
The number of cases is irrelevant.
And unless the relationship between case and death becomes more solid, then it never will be.
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Well I still find it useful even if only to know whether it's getting better or worse overall. I have a suspicion the WHO, government and NHS are also interested in that.
I'm sure you are right longer term but we (the world) are still not in a great place with it yet.
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>>if only to know whether it's getting better or worse overall.
Whether what is getting better or worse overall?
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The spread of the infection.
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But that isn't important and will be, at some point, 100%.
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If you like stats, here's some in what I believe is a trustworthy report t.co/jnkGDbReWB?amp=1 , for anyone who can be bothered reading in this hot weather!
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There's an article in The TImes today headlined...
"Tourists on Balearic Islands pay thousands for flights to beat quarantine"
But you don't have to quarantine on return from an Amber Country if you are either under 18 or fully vaccinated!
So I can only assume the panicking people travelled abroad when not fully vaccinated.
"Holidaymakers paid thousands of pounds to return home from the Balearic Islands tonight to avoid quarantining for ten days"
Good. Serves the stinking planks right. Pity it wasn't 10s of thousands.
t***s.
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And the weather here is plenty warm at the moment:/
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The point here is the way the rules keep changing with little notice.
The Balearics were put on the UK Green list a couple of weeks ago and so of course people naturally assumed it was safe to travel , not just the young and unvaccinated.
The change back to Amber at short notice within a further couple of weeks means that those who booked ahead in good faith cannot afford to lose 10 days wages are rushing back.
Travel companies are tearing their hair out at the lack of a consistent policy.
Last edited by: helicopter on Sun 18 Jul 21 at 22:25
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I wouldn't have assumed that. I would have understood the potential implications of travelling unvaccinated. And I would have considered the implications of a country changing level.
Anybody who didn't is a t***.
Pity it didn't cost them 10s of 000s.
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>>The point here is the way the rules keep changing with little notice
Ohhh, it was compulsory to travel unvaccinated, I didn't realise.
We should have made vaccinations compulsory as well for dedicated rule followers.
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Read one report of a woman who went to Ibiza for a long weekend!
Tested positive for COVID out there so had to isolate for 10 days or something. Then when she comes back she has to quarantine again !
All for a long weekend in Ibiza!
Why would you?
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It has been abundantly clear for the last year that the rules can change rapidly - anyone booking overseas travel should understand and simply accept the risk.
In a wider sense I think "Freedom day" is becoming a shambles:
- rules are inconsistent
- those who are naturally cautious will continue to act cautiously
- those who think it is all a big joke are already largely ignoring restrictions
- people are deleting the app at record rates - no app and you can't be pinged
Cases are no longer relevant - it is mainly the young being infected in large numbers as they mix unconstrained by the rules, and with generally minor consequences.
Over 50% of those being admitted to hospital are unvaccinated despite being of an age to have been offered. Society should not have to stop to protect the stoopid.
And to put current risks into context. In a typical year flu apparently kills 10-20,000 pa. 15,000 pa is an average across the year of ~40 a day. At a guess during the winter flu season this rises to ~150-250 per day.
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Why do the Brits both need and hate rules?
It's not my fault because there was no law telling me not to do it!!!
It's so unfair, the Government is telling me I can't do it!!!
Why do people not take responsibility for themselves? Is that no longer a thing?
Thank Christ I taught my children the old way.
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Flu deaths (like Covid deaths) are common in people with other underlying problems.
Weakened immunity, multiple medical problems then along come flu/covid and it is curtains.
I am almost 75 and it is quite common for me to read the local rag and know someone in the deaths page. Recent deaths, I know the causes of, in the last few months
cancer+pneumonia, cancer & dementia+pneumonia, dementia+pneumonia
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The change back to Amber at short notice within a further couple of weeks means
>> that those who booked ahead in good faith cannot afford to lose 10 days wages
>> are rushing back.
Have these people been living under a rock for the past 18 months?
>>
>> Travel companies are tearing their hair out at the lack of a consistent policy.
They knew the government reviews all the countries every 2 weeks, some go up some down. Its been happening for quite a while.
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>> Travel companies are tearing their hair out at the lack of a consistent policy.
Well I am really sorry that covid screws up an industry who are almost entirely responsible for the rapid spread of the virus in the first place. Isn't just very bad of covid to be inconsistent.
As for the PAX, well rank stupidity at work here, have they been completely oblivious to what's happened in the past? Anyone goes abroad at the moment and gets screwed up a bit deserves EVERYTHING that happened to them.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 19 Jul 21 at 10:23
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Well here we have the Jock government being ridiculously pedantic and separatist
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57893582
So people who have spent three hours crammed up with one another have to separate when they cross the border.
That will a: work and b: ensure no transmission of CV through the train, cos it cant have happened in the previous part of the journey can it.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 19 Jul 21 at 20:34
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>>Well here we have the Jock government being ridiculously pedantic and separatist
They do come across as very petty and small. Like petulant children guarding their own sand pit.
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>>Well here we have the Jock government being ridiculously pedantic and separatist.
Only if you don't accept/recognise the concept of devolution.
If LNER were really saying we're operating in Scotland but on English rules that's quite remarkable. I suspect a junior spokesperson who, like a lot of English people, doesn't get what the last 24 years has actually changed.
You're operating between two different legal jurisdictions. You need to deal with the practical issues. London rules don't trump Edinburgh's
Similar issues crossing into Wales.
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Ah of course its about Devolution not CV
Thats what I said.
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>> Ah of course its about Devolution not CV
>>
>>
>> Thats what I said.
It's about both.
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No its not because of the lack of rules on the MAJORITY of the journey - CV has nothing to do with it.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 19 Jul 21 at 21:48
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>>Only if you don't accept/recognise the concept of devolution.
I couldn't give a FF for devolution one way or the other.
But, if it is as reported, it absolutely is an example of the Scotch Government being ridiculous and pedantic.
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If they were serious about CV they would insist on tests or isolation upon arrival.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 19 Jul 21 at 21:57
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Exactly. Insisting a crowd stand apart for just the last part of their journey and then maintaining that makes everything ok is ridiculous.
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It's the current rule in Scotland.
Don't like it? Alight in Newcastle.
Or maybe we shouldn't have rules at all and Smurf was right all along.
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If we stopped all trains at the border, then Fishwoman would be apoplectic.
Which is the logical CV prevention step
There are rules based on science and there are flexing your muscles just to try and prove you have a valid role.
In this case Science means more than rules for the sake of self importance
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 19 Jul 21 at 22:15
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Oh that makes it ok then not to follow the rules in a country?
July 19th "Freedom Day" in England is a Boris fantasy - sure as hell isn't science based.
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Fishwoman has the same fantasy, but it has to be a different day "because of devolution"
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>>Oh that makes it ok then not to follow the rules in a country?
No, certainly not.
But does having a rule make it sensible and workable?
I did not, and ever have, say anything about her/their rights to make a rule/law. I just said this one was ridiculous and pedantic. (if it is as reported).
Do you think it is not?
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If you join the train at Dunbar you can reasonably expect Scottish rules based on science to apply rather than those of another country based on its leader's ego.
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>> If you join the train at Dunbar you can reasonably expect Scottish rules based on
>> science to apply rather than those of another country based on its leader's ego.
Except of course science does not back her up here, Because the train started and ran mostly under "english rules" Thats ego. Pure and simple.
Anyway what about UID C91443, identity 1S07
TSC 21700001, headcode 6120 , which has no stops in scotland?
Do you have to shuffle the pax around at Berwick?
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 19 Jul 21 at 22:45
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Unfortunately, I suspect it's just another side effect of everything that has happened in recent years. It's wrong I think to see it as an example of deliberate antagonism, on the contrary, it's more of an indication of the lack of willingness to care much what Westminster thinks or decrees anymore.
Many I know, who were once fiercely loyal to the union, now feel that "these are not my people".
Which is a bit sad really, but I suspect, is increasingly inevitable.
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>> Unfortunately, I suspect it's just another side effect of everything that has happened in recent
>> years. It's wrong I think to see it as an example of deliberate antagonism, on
>> the contrary, it's more of an indication of the lack of willingness to care much
>> what Westminster thinks or decrees anymore.
>>
>> Many I know, who were once fiercely loyal to the union, now feel that "these
>> are not my people".
>>
>> Which is a bit sad really, but I suspect, is increasingly inevitable.
It doesn't seem very trendy these days to like anything. I find that very sad.
I think often it's because liking something is harder to do, harder to justify, and harder to own.
Disliking something is usually just a matter of hating. And fault is always easy to find. Often it seems that people bond more easily in mutual dislike of something.
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>> Disliking something is usually just a matter of hating. And fault is always easy to find. Often it seems that people bond more easily in mutual dislike of something.
"The power of bad" I read somewhere that it is multiple times easier to dislike or mistrust something than to like it. A flaw in the human condition.
Scotland has its fair share of knuckle draggers like everywhere else, and yes, some of them have extreme views. But the real worry is the "normal" people and their increasing apathy towards the south.
A bit like a marriage that has run its course, it's not the shouting that needs to be feared, but the silence.
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>>Many I know, who were once fiercely loyal to the union, now feel that "these are not my people".
The feeling is mutual south of the wall. I'll leave you to ponder what percentage of English folk would happily vote to bring the union to an end.
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Do many English people really have a strong feeling about it? On balance I'd sooner we remained a Union but if Scotland decided to go I'd find it less disappointing than the BREXIT outcome.
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>>Do many English people really have a strong feeling about it?
I think many 'English people' get a bit peed orf with fishface keep whining on.
I reckon she cares more about her 'pet project' than she does about the Scottish people ... bit like the €U :)
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>> On balance I'd sooner we remained a Union but if Scotland decided to go I'd find it less
>> disappointing than the BREXIT outcome.
About sums up my feelings as well.
Difficult to imagine the mindset of an English person who would vote to kick the Scotch out.
Unless they were thick, bitter, ignorant, bigots who thought the Scotch might be foreign.
But we don't know anybody like that, do we?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 20 Jul 21 at 15:33
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>> If you join the train at Dunbar you can reasonably expect Scottish rules based on
>> science to apply rather than those of another country based on its leader's ego.
Pull your skirt down, Bromp, your bias is showing at the back.
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I think this mantra that all the politicians keep repeating about, follow the science or lead by science is abdecating responsibility. Its the politicians that make the decisions and no one else. Seems a bit of an easy way to say we'll it wasn't really my call.
I can't say I'm particularly keen, I think it'll become a millstone for more than one politician in the near future. It's not as though there is a set view on all scientific areas of this anyway, remember the great Barrington decleration.
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>> Pull your skirt down, Bromp, your bias is showing at the back.
That gibe is beyond wearing.
The irony, when others are getting away with references to the Jock or Scotch government and Fishwoman is jaw dropping.
Which bit of my reference to Boris's ego is subject to any doubt whatsoever?
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>> The irony, when others are getting away with r
>> and Fishwoman is jaw dropping.
She's a politician, they are deserving of scorn and name calling, Just as Buffoon Bojo is. None of them deserve the smallest iota of respect.
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>>She's a politician, they are deserving of scorn and name calling, Just as Buffoon Bojo is. None of them deserve the smallest iota of respect.
Indeed, although I think Sturgeon genuinely tries to do the right thing (while shackled by her centre-left Indy ideology), while Johnson finds the "right thing" a massive pita that gets in the way of his self-aggrandisement and feathering his nest for the future.
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>> I think Sturgeon genuinely tries to do the right thing (while shackled by her centre-left Indy
>> ideology),
Probably fair. I also think her time was passed. At one time I think her style and drive was needed by the SNP and she was an asset. I'm not sure she's quite a liability yet, but it's certainly coming. If she leaves soon she'll probably go down very well in history. Hanging on for too much longer might undo that.
>> Johnson finds the "right thing" a massive pita that gets in the way of his self-aggrandisement
>> and feathering his nest for the future.
Johnson is a funny sod, not at all easy to understand. I think he does try to do what he thinks is right, but he's often wrong. He doesn't appear to listen and doesn't appear to worry too much about behavioural guidelines which makes being wrong even more problematic.
He certainly doesn't seem to be any level of team player and certainly it seems that he sees what he wants as outweighing any other consideration, personal or professional.
As I have said before, the day to day detail of normal life is what will bring him down, he's simply not good at it nor suited to it.
Surely they've realised by now that COVID is simply not the right hammer to hit him with. Not at this time, anyway. If I was his political opponent I'd stop trying to go for the big headline win and I would just bring up an atmosphere of day to day incompetence.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 20 Jul 21 at 16:17
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>> >> Pull your skirt down, Bromp, your bias is showing at the back.
>>
>> That gibe is beyond wearing.
As wearing as your blind bias, I wonder.
>> The irony, when others are getting away with references to the Jock or Scotch government
>> and Fishwoman is jaw dropping.
Unless you're particularly hard of understanding, there is no irony.
I think "Fishwoman" was said by Zero. He's rude about all politicians - no bias, you see. "Scotch" was said by me, and I certainly dislike all politicians without bias. "Jock" was probably Zero also but I don't remember. Sounds like him though.
You, on the other hand, are biased by party politics.
See? No irony at all.
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Like this, kinda sums up my position and thoughts
If you see me wearing a mask in public and in the stores, I want you to know that...
I'm educated enough to know that I could be asymptomatic and still give you the virus.
No, I don't "live in fear" of the virus; I just want to be part of the solution, not the problem.
I don't feel like the "government controls me". I feel like I'm an adult contributing to my security and in our society
Wearing a mask doesn't make me weak, scared, stupid or even "controlled". It makes me sensible
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Ditto
I’ll still wear a mask in most shops, although I rarely go into shops. Hate shopping.
My local butcher always has the door open, and a max of 2 customers any one time so when in there I won’t wear a mask.
Supermarkets, which I visit maybe once a week ( small Booths as CooP is closed for a refurb) I’ll continue to wear a mask.
Local baker, two customers at a time, door permanently open, I won’t wear a mask.
Local bus is very quiet so no mask
If the train is busy I shall wear a mask
And once the warm weather disappears, I’ll continue to avoid all pubs which are busy indoors.
Even if very thirsty.
I can’t understand people being happy mixing in crowds, whether it be any sport, indoors or out, shoulder to shoulder.
It’s far easier being unsociable away on the hill, far from the madding crowd.
Last edited by: legacylad on Wed 21 Jul 21 at 11:40
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How our attitudes have changed. Yesterday, we found ourselves driving past Bolesworth where we saw the signs directing traffic to this weekend's Car Fest North ( the Chris Evans thing )
I'd always kind of fancied going to one of those, but tickets were always sold out within a short space of time and we've never got around to it.
Anyway, I checked online yesterday and there are, or were then, still tickets available.
Nearly clicked on buy, but then we both decided that we were just a bit uncomfortable about putting ourselves into a situation where we'd be potentially in long term close proximity with other people.
Think we'll go mountain biking again instead.
;-)
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I have a mate who's being going to the southern Carfest since it began, he camps at it and loves it - takes SWMBO and has had the grandkids stay in the tent for a couple of nights too. He splashed out (a lot) on VIP rickets one year but he found it not that worthwhile for the extra cost.
On the whole, those really large events have never appealed much, I prefer smaller events. Off to a modest blues weekend in Aug, Covid permitting!!
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At least now there's less need to listen to the usual idiots prattling and whining abut how Australia has survived without all the precautions the UK insisted upon.
14% vaccinated and with the prospects of borders continuing to be closed and incessant lockdowns until that reaches something a lot more reasonable.
www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-57911032
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>> At least now there's less need to listen to the usual idiots prattling and whining
>> abut how Australia has survived without all the precautions the UK insisted upon.
>>
>> 14% vaccinated and with the prospects of borders continuing to be closed and incessant lockdowns
>> until that reaches something a lot more reasonable.
Internal borders as well as international. Various States/Territories have closed their crossings.
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I'm not sure what was behind their strategy,
If it was to avoid the virus until vaccinated then you'd have thought they'd have gone berserker on a vaccination campaign.
It surely cannot have been based on any hope that if they hid long enough it would go away?
Quite a lot of the Anglo American people here are Australian, and many of them friends of mine. They tell quite some stories about how Australians in Australia that don't travel themselves see no problem with borders being closed forever.
They also don't see why they should take a foreign vaccine to deal with a foreign virus when none of it is their fault and shouldn't be trusted.
They apparently have a very insular attitude resentful of foreign stuff. Especially towards the Asian countries.
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If it was to avoid the virus until vaccinated then you'd have thought they'd have
>> gone berserker on a vaccination campaign.
>>
>
I think that was the plan, but as infections were low no-one was in any sort of rush to get a jab.
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They screwed up the Astra Zeneca thing badly, now no-one wants it.
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>> Internal borders as well as international. Various States/Territories have closed their crossings.
Some states dont need borders, 500 mile deserts do that quite nicely.
State Border closures and controls pre existed Coronavirus. The border between WA and SA has always had border posts to stop the transfer of plant and animal pests and diseases.
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assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1003027/Weekly_Flu_and_COVID-19_report_w28_v2.pdf
The whole doc has some interesting graphs and stats but I was particularly caught by figure 18, "weekly positivity (%) for RSV ( by age, England" where you will see a near vertical trajectory of positivity or 0 -4 year olds
"Respiratory syncytial virus, or RSV, is a respiratory virus that infects the lungs and breathing passages."
In other news, there's also some data coming from Israel that is leading their Ministry of Health to think that the Pfizer vaccine is waning in those inoculated in Jan- they are 4 times more likely to get a positive test than those done in May. Not touted as conclusive though, and maybe no real surprise there.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57937342
No surprise here, I think the government has been caught on the hop. Pretty poor, this can't have come as a surprise. Needed to have a plan in place.
I think they'll be being fwd the date that everyone who is double jabbed can then not self isolate.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 23 Jul 21 at 16:02
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Or change the way it works. Scotland’s version is apparently pinging about 1000 people a week versus 500000 in the version used in England. And yet Scotland are not apparently at any disadvantage on the stats.
Instead the government are talking about case by case exemptions in England for a few thousand workers. I can’t see this working. Another u turn is coming for sure.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 23 Jul 21 at 16:02
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The app is simply no longer fit for purpose (if it ever was)! It can work only in two circumstances:
1. Where levels of infection in the community are low, the number of contacts needing to isolate will be low
2. Where a high level of lockdown is in place the number of interactions will be low, even if the infection levels are high
There is currently no real lockdown although some folk are sensibly being cautious. We also have high levels of infection.
Making limited exceptions may reduce public concern over shortages in the shops and reduce panic buying. But given the numbers either ignoring or deleting the app, trying to retain it as some sort of final brake on transmission is futile.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 23 Jul 21 at 16:03
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A cheery indicator that the govt are taking contingency planning seriously...
www.find-tender.service.gov.uk/Notice/013120-2021?origin=SearchResults&p=1
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It's a local gov function, they've been doing it since the start of cv19 outbreak. We've on opposite us at work. About 1/10 of the size it had been, various large tents and iso chiller units.
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The Aussie have called out the Army to enforce lockdowns in Sydney.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-58066389
They are losing the plot on this pretty quickly, civil unrest is not far away
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Their approach of total isolation need to be either absolute and permanent or relieved with an aggressive vaccination campaign. Seems they went with plan A.
Many of my mining friends are Australian and the stories they tell of Australians at home being comfortable with country isolation and not intending to get vaccinated are quite surprising.
"Why should *we* get vaccinated against *their* virus?" was one apparently common sentiment.
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I, well Idris has much family IN WA, not just Perth but out of the way spots like Kalgooriie, and Broome, And others in SA - Broken Hill. They even blame the rest of Australia,
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Much the same for my branch as well.
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Cousins in Perth of same mentality.
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>>"Why should *we* get vaccinated against *their* virus?" was one apparently common sentiment.
That almost sounds reasonable until you try to works out what it means.
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I genuinely don't understand this.
Briefly the story is that schools will be refused funding if they make masks compulsory because that infringes on the parents' rights.
Aside from the sheer stupidity of the whole thing, how does this infringe on parental rights anymore than saying, say, that children must wear clothes, must turn up on time, etc. etc.
Are they upset because they wanted to tell their child to wear a mask, or because they don't want their child to wear a mask? Masks are a pain to wear but ffs, it's no big deal. (other than the microscopic number of people with a genuine medical reason).
I'm not even talking of whether or not wearing a mask actually helps, but why is a school rule infringing on parents' rights?
Give the patents right to homeschool, which they have in the US, and to stay at home if they don't like it.
People seem to think that having civil rights mean being able to do wtf you like. And that is NOT what it means.
www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58162329
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The answer I think is Ron de Santis:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_DeSantis
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Not entirely following your point; do you mean one obsessive nut job using any means to justify himself is all that's behind it, and it's not actually the parents objecting?
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Though reading that wiki link you gave for him is eye opening. I don't think "nut job" quite covers it.
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>> Not entirely following your point; do you mean one obsessive nut job using any means
>> to justify himself is all that's behind it, and it's not actually the parents objecting?
My reading was that the parent's rights stuff was the self justification of a raging Trumpite.
I may of course be wrong.
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Got you.
To be honest, that's even more depressing than a few ludicrous parents.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-58164833
TBH, I think I the zombies has more smarts! :-O
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I don't know if it's the "pingdemic" or bad resource management and I know it has been a couple of months since mentioning a several hour wait for our neighbour after a stroke.
Our God Daughter (age 35) had to wait nearly 20 hours for an ambulance earlier this week, called on 999 by her hospice's in house doctor.
She has cancer (stage 4) and is still fighting. The hospice doctor wanted her at hospital due to complications from recent surgery which left her in great pain and unable to digest any food further weakening her.
Both her family and I offered to take her in our cars but were not allowed because of all the machinery she is plugged in to.
We even offered to pay for a private ambulance but again there was no availability / capability.
It's so damn unfair and certainly puts small unfortunate personal events in to sharp perspective.
Last edited by: zippy on Fri 13 Aug 21 at 02:30
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Is it because it is so difficult to get to see your own GP nowadays? Perhaps understanably, GPs are doing almost anything to avoid face to face consultations, so patients are going into A & E, or are ringing 999.
Over the past two years i have had basal cell carcinomas, and unstaunchable nose bleeds. I have been to A & E several times with rides in ambulances in the middle of the night, but I still haven't seen my GP.
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Mt doctor is working a very good system. You phone up at 08:30am, explain your need and you are given a one hour time slot, that day, where the doc phones you. If required you get an appointment that evening or the following morning. The waiting room at the surgery is pretty empty, which is what they are trying to achieve.
Three weeks back I got a UTI, Phoned surgery at 08:30, by 10:30 I had had a consultation and a prescription was winging its way off to the chemist.
I went to A&E off my own bat last year in the midst of one of the peaks, and the place was empty - rows of ambulances outside with Virus patients inside them but A&E itself - empty. I was seen quickly and given meds.
In Zippys case, upsetting as those circumstances are to all involved, there was no immediate threat to life, and with crew numbers being short, priorities have to be made. And crew numbers are short because of Isolation requirements after contact - the pingdemic. To be trumpish about it, we should now just get on with life, take your own precautions, Its not like you dont know whats happening, and if it happens to you then who do you blame.
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>> Mt doctor is working a very good system. You phone up at 08:30am, explain your
>> need and you are given a one hour time slot, that day, where the doc
>> phones you. If required you get an appointment that evening or the following morning. The
>> waiting room at the surgery is pretty empty, which is what they are trying to
>> achieve.
Pretty much the same with my surgery. Last week I contacted them regarding a somewhat painful but relatively minor problem. Doctor or my choice 'phoned back a few hours later, and I was given an appointment for the appropriate treatment later that afternoon.
I was the only patient in the waiting room.
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The only success I've heard of round here with people "seeing" a doctor is using Push Doctor, which is a remote doc who you video conference with on your phone (- I remember mentioning it here way before the pandemic).
Apparently we have a shortage of GPs in the medical centre and they are having trouble recruiting/retaining them.
The support staff don't seem to be helping. I'm supposed to have an annual blood test for some drugs I'm on. This had slipped to nearly 2 years then they let me know by text that I was to contact them or go online and book an appt at a local centre. The latter is always more efficient so I chose that. When I turned up the lady asked if I'd eaten., which I had. No-one had bothered to tell me it was a fasting one, which I've not done for a few years, wasting my time, her time + an appointment, and SWMBOs time driving me to the place.
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Does anyone else's surgery use the garbage "econsult" system? Designed to deter you from seeking medical help.
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Oh yes, we have that option too...
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>> Does anyone else's surgery use the garbage "econsult" system? Designed to deter you from seeking
>> medical help.
No we still have the older human resource based autonomous system called Harridan
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 13 Aug 21 at 12:55
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>No we still have the older human resource based autonomous system called Harridan
Stick with the Harridan system.
If you gave a class of 5yo kids an hour to build an online medical appointment/triage system the result would be far superior to "econsult".
Of course I'm being a bit silly and exaggerating - If you gave them half an hour it would be far superior to "econsult".
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>> Does anyone else's surgery use the garbage "econsult" system?
Yes, unfortunately.
As well as a terrible phone system that is either constantly engaged, or gives you the impression you've been cut off by the line going totally silent after pressing the relevant button to get put through to the "right" department.
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A close relative has no inhibitions about playing the 'cancer card'. Reckons it works.
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>> A close relative has no inhibitions about playing the 'cancer card'. Reckons it works.
I use it, with no shame but with no abuse of it either. At the end of the day to get the best out of the NHS you have to manage it.
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There's a book called Staying Alive on exactly that (getting the best out of the NHS), probably mentioned here years ago, by Dr Phil Hammond (who also happens to do stand-up gigs but revolving around medical stuff and also writes the MD column for Private Eye). I found it a bit boring to read from cover to cover but a good one for casual reading.
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Playing the diabetes card also works.
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>> Does anyone else's surgery use the garbage "econsult" system? Designed to deter you from seeking
>> medical help.
>>
Yes, but it's not mandatory you can just book an appointment. Usually a telephone appointment that day or the next, then the Dr decides if you need a face to face which is usually only a day or so wait.
Last time I needed a bit of physio again a telephone consultation and then in for face to face. From first call to face to face physio session was about a week.
The one the wife used until very recently is dire, you can't speak to anyone it's just an answerphone and you have to wait for someone to ring you back about any form of appointment. The system for repeat perscriptions is daft, you have to write it down on a bit of paper and then leave it in a box on a chair in the doorway. They won't do any form of online perscriptions.
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We use patientaccess.com. I had a message that appointment booking online has just been reinstated and all appointments by default are phone, but if you think you need a face to face you can book it. They say unless you are sure you won't need a face to face you should book one as the GP won't be able just to tell you to come in. However on checking the only typ of appointment I can book is a blood test. I don't think think they really know what they're doing,
We also order our repeat prescriptions on this website - however I have noticed that I can also do that on the NHS phone app, so I'll try that next week. I can also book a blood test on the app, but not a GP appointment.
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>> We also order our repeat prescriptions on this website - however I have noticed that
>> I can also do that on the NHS phone app, so I'll try that next
>> week. I can also book a blood test on the app, but not a GP
>> appointment.
>>
Can you order your prescription stuff direct from the chemist? That's what we do.
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>>
>> Can you order your prescription stuff direct from the chemist? That's what we do.
On patient access you have your repeat meds listed, you re order as you need, and pick them up at your chosen chemist two days later. Ditto NHS app.
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>>On patient access you have your repeat meds listed, you re order as you need, and pick them up at your chosen chemist two days later. Ditto NHS app.
I could only dream of that. My surgery states I can pick up repeat prescriptions from my chemist after three working days, the chemist says they need at least a week. I tried online deliveries, but the first one never turned up and I had to convince the surgery to re-issue the prescription, so I gave up with that.
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At my parents GP/pharmacy repeat prescriptions are online and they also drop them off as they have a full time driver.
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Bad management would be my call, as in August 2019 I managed to break my femur, which in turn caused what the surgeon described as a minor nuclear explosion, destroying my left hip. I waited from 9.25 nearly three hours for an ambulance. I must admit that I was screaming by then.
Part of the problem in this area was that they closed the local A&E, making it a privately run Minor Injuries day time only. That means every elderly person who has a fall or other problem, now has to go to Southampton or Bournemouth/Poole. The ambulances are then unavailable for new passengers for nearly three hours … and that’s pre-Covid cleaning etc. Plus, of course, A&E are saturated.
I might have been a little unhelpful when, after being left on a trolley until morphine (no gas and air since transfer) wore off and radiologist tried to move my leg. Fun times.
Bad luck if you have an accident or heart attack around the time carers discover their client had a problem overnight.
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Lockdown protesters laid siege to Edinburgh Castle yesterday. Sort of...
www.theregister.com/2021/08/18/magna_carta_edinburgh_castle/
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58281665
Seems some ambulance services are under pressure already.
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There were a million ambulance 999 cars in July. So on average roughly one in sixty-six people called an ambulance that month.
Who is making these calls at this astonishing rate? They can’t all be real emergencies surely?
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>> They can’t all be real emergencies surely?
>>
Miss Z reports that people are leaving problem until they become emergencies.
She has just moved hospitals and changed departments to general surgery and she said it true of her last and current placements, basically things that could have been dealt with simply are often now needing admittance and often emergency surgery and on a couple of occasions last week the hospital put out a call for locums and paid big £££ as they had to open the mothballed operating theatres.
Miss Z is loving her new job and even on long days when she is on call, where she comes home exhausted, she invariably comes home very happy.
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Some of the 999s may be less urgent calls that have been unable to be dealt with timeously.
If I request a "1-hour" or "4-hour" ambulance and it is going way past this time it is sometimes necessary to upgrade to a 999 to make sure the patient actually gets to hospital that day.
Due to the lottery I suspect I am more likely to ask for a 999 ambulance now than previously.
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What?? Closing the borders to the world, tourism and trade, pretending the virus doesn't exist in your bubble and taking your sweet time about vaccinating?
What could possibly go wrong with that?
www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58297895
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Over 5000 new positive cases today in Scotland and apparently there is also a backlog at the testing labs. This is a record figure up here.
Can't help but think this is herd immunity in progress and as long as the hospitals dont get overwhelmed then we will continue on this road. Although I am sure every single hospital covid patient is ultimately denying space to another patient somewhere along the chain.
I currently know of 12 different people with Covid (not linked). Never since the outset have I ever known of more than 2 people at any one time to be positive.
It really does feel that there is a certain air of inevitability that we will all catch it. Having said that, one of the above 12 is a wife. Her husband is still working as has not tested positive or had any symptoms so it does seem, in some cases, to be totally random as to who catches it.
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>>
>> every single hospital covid patient is ultimately denying space to another patient somewhere along the chain.
>>
As is every cigarette smoker who developed cancer.
As is every cyclist and motorcyclist who has fallen off their bike.
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>> As is every cyclist and motorcyclist who has fallen off their bike.
Specially those who wont get in the hedge on narrow lanes.
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I see no reason why vaccinated and unvaccinated should be given the same access to everything as a human right.
However this, assuming the BBS report is accurate, is surely a step too far?
www.bbc.com/news/business-58335109
- Only unvaccinated have to wear a mask
- Unvaccinated must pay a $200 surcharge to go to work
- Weekly COVID tests for the unvaccinated
- Sick pay only paid to the vaccinated in the event of contracting covid (I don't have a problem with this one)
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Interesting that they imply some sort of calculation has been done as to the extra costs of hospitalisation to their employees medical cover. That goes a long way to countering the argument that they are unfairly penalising people exercising their yuman rights not to be vaccinated.
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A new Israeli study (preprint) suggests that "natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger
protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant."
www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1.full.pdf
A comment about it said "I think it was a mistake to rely on mRNA vaccines, which target only the spike protein. Traditional vaccines, which use deactivated virus, induce antibodies that target the entire virus. The spike protein is what has been mutating. Sinovac may have had a better strategy."
Herd immunity anyone?
Last edited by: smokie on Wed 25 Aug 21 at 23:37
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Astra Zeneca is not an MRNA vaccine. Pfizer is. Effectiveness (as preventing infection) is ~70% (Z) and 95% (Pfizer), mutations aside.
Perhaps vaccination will turn out to be a good way of reaching herd immunity through infection - if you catch COVID, perhaps you won't be too seriously ill, but you get some extra immunity. That's a bit of a leap, just musing.
Last edited by: Manatee on Thu 26 Aug 21 at 08:50
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But unless our hospitals are overwhelmed, this appears to be the way we are going and the world will need to go to return to some form of normality in terms of mass gatherings and international travel.
The Israelis are putting their faith in a third Pfizer jab whereas the scientists in the UK reckon a different vaccine is better for further jabs.
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As the vaccine seems very effective in preventing (not eliminating) severe outcomes, the issue is rapidly becoming related to the consequences of infection not number of cases.
The reproduction rate of the Delta variant is ~6.0 vs ~2.5 for the original strain. This makes herd immunity more difficult to achieve and outbreaks are likely due to asymptomatic transmission.
There is also a statistical conundrum which those more able than I may resolve. Assume:
- 100% of people are vaccinated, and
- the virus may be asymptomatic, and
- vaccination is less than 100% effective in preventing infection & severe outcomes.
The question is whether Covid is the reason those who are hospitalised or die with Covid. Or is it simply a statistical probability that some deaths will be "with covid".
We don't measure it, but conceptually this would be no different to counting the number of people who die infected with a common cold virus. It is statistcally correct to say they died with a common cold virus, but in very few cases would the common cold be the cause of death.
This is why we don't worry abot the common cold virus!
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Its not a leap, its learning to live with and cope with it. Its not going anywhere, it or its derivatives are with us for life now. Herd immunity clearly wasnt the thing to aim for in the early days, but its certainly now the near term goal and only long term solution.
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>> Herd immunity clearly wasnt the thing to aim for in the early days
We couldn't let it run rampant because the health services couldn't cope, but herd immunity has always been the goal. The only goal, in fact.
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It's not funny - just very sad.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-58376709
Last edited by: Lygonos on Sun 29 Aug 21 at 18:07
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It is sad. Very.
He stuck his head in the sand, he encouraged others to stick their heads in the sand and he both believed and circulated the anti-vax and conspiracy stuff.
Entirely stupid, but the punishment both for him and for his family is enormous. Especially sad when you think how he would have felt both knowing his life was going to end, that he was going to leave his loved ones, and that he could probably easily have avoided it. I feel genuinely sorry for him and his. What a very, very stupid way to die.
You'd like to think that his case would be a caution to others, but it won't be. It'll just be filed under the huge title of "State conspiracy" and fake news only to be believed by the sheeple, not by the enlightened ones who research everything on Facebook and YouTube.
The only spec of light in the whole thing is that one can hope that it disproportionately kills stupid people.
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"You'd like to think that his case would be a caution to others, but it won't be."
I think it might just shift the thinking of those whose brain has not been completely mushed by the conspiracy stuff. This case, and others, like:
"Florida radio host who called himself ‘Mr Anti-Vax’ dies of Covid-19" - www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/29/conservative-radio-host-anti-vaxxer-dies-covid-marc-bernier
"Nurse issues warning against Covid misinformation after her anti-vaxxer mother dies of virus aged 57" - www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/nurse-mum-dies-covid-misinformation-b1906536.html
"Anti-vaxxer dies of Covid after mocking ‘experimental vaccine’" - www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/antivaxxer-dies-david-parker-durham-covid-mocking-experimental
There is in fact a steady drip of such cases being reported in the media and one can only hope that some good comes of it.
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I am on a round trip involving 4 countries. The level of documentation, authorisation and certification required is beyond belief.
My head may explode.
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Coronavirus - Volume 36 - henry k
