Many years ago when we had the solar panel put in they weren't the best or tidiest workmen. I don't know how they made the holes in the tiles for the retaining brackets, but they just tore through this papery stuff which was on the inside of the roof.
I did just put some card over the gaps a few years back (just gripping between the rafters) which were finds, but are falling out now. I had cause to invite SWMBO into the loft and she wants it done a bit more tidily, though we don't want to spend too much on it. And she thinks it's causing dust to come into the loft.
It's a 60s tiled roof and is generally in good shape. Where the holes are, it doesn't appear to leak as there are panels above it. And anyway any places we can see the sky are few and far between.
The loft already has a fair bit of insulation over the floor but I'm just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on the best way to cover the gaps, and whether there are any d-i-y products which might add to the insulation, if it's worth it. I am not prepared to spend a lot of time or money on it and will probably only do the central buts of the roof which I can easily reach.
I have had a bit of a scan round and I can see there is some blown foam but I guess that's a pro job.
Given this is more of an appearance job than anything, I'm thinking maybe just getting some hardboard and cutting it neatly then tacking it up somehow might be easiest. Any other thoughts?
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The 'paper' stuff is what we would likely call roofing 'felt' or membrane. It is not designed to be a barrier to water although if one does have ingress then it is obviously useful with particular reservations. It's primary purpose is to keep the majority of the air in the roof space to resist the tendency for the tiles/slates to be sucked off by the wind.
If it's not leaking walk away and ignore the woman.
If you try and 'seal' the gaps the tendency to thermal movement will win the battle and gaps will re-appear.
I have a personal hatred of solar panel companies. In my experience they pay NO ATTENTION to roof condition and here in North Devon where natural slate is prevalent and often already well worn and suffering from nail rot, these companies happily install their equipment on their new shiny brackets, paying no attention to the possibility of loose or slipping slates. If one 'loses' a single slate under a solar panel then disaster looms, especially in the ££££ department.
MD
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Not sure what the best solution is but make sure that the wood (rafters etc) has reasonable airflow around them or you may start to create damp problems which could lead to rot.
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When solar panels are fitted the mounting brackets for the rails are slid up under a tile and then pushed through the underfelt and screwed to a truss. This will cause the tile to be lifted slightly.
Underfelt is fitted purely to stop draughts that will come from between the tiles. Providing the tiles are in good order no water should come through. Severe wind may push some rain upwards from the lower tile edge. The underfelt will keep that out of your loft space but it will be minimal.
I'm presuming the holes and daylight you can see are on the lower edge of the tiles?
Shes right dust from the tiles may blow through the holes in the felt.
I wouldn't recommend that blown foam as an insulator that sticks to the underside. But I'm not an expert. The roof need to breath.
You could try some black roofing felt and fit it a bit more tidily around the brackets and stick it with some proprietary adhesive. Basically you are trying to repair the underfelt. New roofs have a white breathable membrane now which allows the loft to breath but keeps out moisture (and dust :) )
MD beat me too it but he explains it well. Trouble is I'm going to need a new roof now :
Last edited by: Fullchat on Sat 3 Jul 21 at 20:16
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My roof felt had a hole where something quite heavy must have punctured it. I was mainly concerned about the draught coming through. I made some small holes in the tears with a leather punch and sewed it together with string. It's quite effective.
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>>It's a 60s tiled roof
I'm in a '65 Wimpy built house. Around that time,it seems regulations were relaxed on pitch and overlap of tiles. I can't stand up in my loft. Last year my neighbour had a leak through their roof (I'm one of a pair of semis). Problem identified as failure of rotten battens. My roof was also affected as some tiles were laying on the roofing felt, as the rotten battens underneath had collapsed.
£3.5K bill for scaffolding, removal of tiles, felt and all battens (you should have seen how rotten they were). New treated battens, felt and an additional row of tiles to increase the overlap. The old (probably untreated battens) lasted nearly fifty years and I suspect the repair will see me out.
Unfortunately, there's no way you can check the state of your battens without removing tiles on top, or felt from underneath.
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I really didn't look closely FC but I think you're right about the daylight is just where tiles are have been lifted.
Thanks folks, I get the feeling this doesn't need over-thinking - I just need to get something easily applied to make it cosmetically acceptable, and make sure I don't prevent airflow.
Maybe a just large roll of strong brown paper would do the trick - I can just tape or glue it.
Mine is a Wimpey too Tom. Not seen any on the state having a new roof yet, let's hope it stays that way eh?!!
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Tiled roof - 50 years old and has been 100% apart from 1 tile that moved for some reason.
Neighbours have had the moss cleaned off by power washer and painted - some of those houses were done say 10/12 years ago - now needing re-tiled as the tiles have become porous.
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>> Neighbours have had the moss cleaned off by power washer ...
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I've always thought that was probably counterproductive in terms of making the roof last a long time. Anyone like to convince me otherwise?
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Of that I have no doubt. They should weather naturally + climbing all over slates is bound to create some casualties.
I do see the benefits of moss removal using specialised long reach scraping equipment working from gutter height followed by an appropriate biocide.
Serious falls of moss soon clogs up gutters and strains.
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Interlocking concrete tiles 'shed' their surface over time (more so the granular flavour) and this with the addition of leaves, moss and other crap, eventually fill the drainage channels slowing the passage of water and this can let that water back up and enter the roof space. It will generally be more noticeable on the lower courses say 1-3. This combined with old bituminous roofing felt that splits under its own weight behind the Fascia board, allowing water to appear through the soffit. This is a nuisance when for example the property has a wide soffit, however where a narrower soffit is employed that ingress can appear in the top of the wall, cavity or otherwise or worse still around the perimeter of the ceiling/s.
Specifications for the fitting of concrete tiles to modern properties have in the past been sadly lacking. I.E. Fitting to a minimum overlap on roof pitches that are too shallow. In sheltered areas one may get away with it, but the highlands and within 40 miles of a westerly coast is deemed susceptible. Architects and Building control have a lot to answer for.
MD.
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As MD says this is exactly what is happening in daughters end terrace house. Under felt which did fold over into gutter has rotted and now hangs into soffit. Not much fall on gutter which eventually hits down pipe 2 houses away. Fair bit of moss and leaves in gutter. During severe rain gutter has overflowed and water has gone into soffit and appeared running down inside upstairs window.I must get some of those plastic trays fitted to support the felt and bring it back outside again into the gutter.
I have the ladders. The property with the downpipe is rental and tenants don't really care. So its down to me to keep the 3 houses gutters free flowing.
Could do with deep flow guttering really with better fall.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Sun 4 Jul 21 at 18:13
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>> As MD says this is exactly what is happening in daughters end terrace house. Under
>> felt which did fold over into gutter has rotted and now hangs into soffit. Not
>> much fall on gutter which eventually hits down pipe 2 houses away. Fair bit of
>> moss and leaves in gutter. During severe rain gutter has overflowed and water has gone
>> into soffit and appeared running down inside upstairs window.I must get some of those plastic
>> trays fitted to support the felt and bring it back outside again into the gutter.
>> I have the ladders. The property with the downpipe is rental and tenants don't really
>> care. So its down to me to keep the 3 houses gutters free flowing.
>> Could do with deep flow guttering really with better fall.
>>
Don't assume the refurbishment trays will perform without additional works. When using them it is 'normal' to also replace the bottom row of felt for a breathable variant, which of course entails removing or pushing back several courses of tiles. (Am I correct in assuming concrete tiles here?)
One cannot just insert the trays and hope to get them under the existing felt. I wouldn't do this off of ladders. A scaffold is required and I'm in the trade! Scaffolding is cheap for what it allows you to achieve. NOTE:- Scaffolders will likely try and take you for a ride if they think that you're a know FA homeowner.
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Thanks MD.
Yes concrete tiles. I did manage it on my garage but that was only single storey :)
I slid up the bottom row of tiles. Interesting what you say about putting in breathable membrane at along the bottom. Never considered that. Of course I'm assuming the bottom batten will also require lifting to get the membrane under?
First time I've seen it but there are some lightweight metal brackets screwed on the top edge of the soffit presumably to stop them lifting.
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Hi FC. The soffit should be supported at its outer edge by a rebate in the Fascia board and at its junction at the wall (inner) side by ideally a continuous batten fixed to the masonry.
In my extensive experience *annying around with this type of work is hopeless. Get a scaffold up (I will offer my opinion (not advice) on that subject) and get it 'ripped' out and replaced toute suite. 2 guys (with knowledge) will have it back in the dry in a day. Pick a weather window and go for it.
Mail me if you need to.
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Luckily my next door neighbour is fearless and will happily trot about doing stuff on the roof if necessary. He and I renewed the guttering and all the other gubbins about 5 years ago (I did the ground level stuff!!) , and he goes up on the ladders each year to clean it inside and out, also while I stand and watch :-)
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My neighbour's garage roof used to be full of moss. Every time there was a decent downpour, the moss would come scuttling down the tiles, bravely leap the gutter like green lemmings and camp out in my yard. After polite representation in 2019, some chaps with yard brushes swept the roof and (I wasn't prepared for this), cleaned the yard up after them.
I still clean the gutter for the neighbour though. Out of sight, out of mind.
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>> cleaned the yard
>> up after them.
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Give me their details....................NOW :-)
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I found I already had a roll of brown parcel paper so this afternoon I am going up into the loft to paper over the cracks :-)
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That should wrap the job up...
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>>I am going up into the loft to paper over the cracks
SWMBO got her way then ;)
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Nothing changes....
Mind you she did come up to watch, and I put her in charge of taping the stuff up cos she would moan if I had any creases in the tape.
And I've left her up there with Henry now. She loves her special moments with Henry.
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A roof question - MD
