www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57595913
I guess they'll all follow suit.
It's getting expensive to go abroad now, what with visas, test requirements, and now phone costs! :-)
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This was always going to happen, this is one of the things I used to bang on about.
However, financially it probably won't make much difference in the long run. What it will actually do is bring something that you have to pay attention to and think about, whereas within the EU it was something that previously could be safely ignored.
It will become another area where market forces will replace legislation. THe problem is that market forces take both effort and numbers.
Ultimately, with this and overall, I think we'll end up in much the same position as we were before, but with no recourse when we don't like it.
What the Telcos will *not* get away with, which they certainly did years ago, is springing it on you after the event. They are going to need to make sure that everybody fully understands the implications of using their phone and/or data abroad. Or at least to be able to demonstrate that they tried their best.
I expect loads more "wounded" consumers with their bottom lip stuck out in the Daily Mail as they gradually begin to understand the need to take personal personal responsibility.
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It's cheaper for me now to have a contract in the UK as well as abroad.
I've run up an eye watering bill in a couple of weeks.
But don't tell anyone. Let them find out when they get back home.
My kids also sent me a Father's Day pressie and that cost me £18 on import duty. I've heard a lot of people being 'stung' in the same way after shopping on Amazon. Didn't think about that either, did they?
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Bojo Specifically said they wouldnt. Of course we all knew they would and warned against it
It is- more or less - exploitation by the phone companies. Bojo should step in to stop it
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 24 Jun 21 at 20:06
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>> It is- more or less - exploitation by the phone companies. Bojo should step in
>> to stop it
They're following the schtick of increased rail fares; it's to fund investment.
If investment pays investors will stump up, no need to fleece the customers.
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O2 had already announced that it will charge for EU countries - EE followed
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No they didnt they announced a cap.
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I’m ambivalent about the charges for roaming…at a personal level I’ve benefited massively from free roaming, but on the other hand why should the (majority?) who roam less than me subsidise my travel? And as WiFi access continues to become more prevalent, in built up areas at least, it matters less and less anyway.
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>> I’m ambivalent about the charges for roaming…at a personal level I’ve benefited massively from free
>> roaming, but on the other hand why should the (majority?) who roam less than me
>> subsidise my travel? And as WiFi access continues to become more prevalent, in built up
>> areas at least, it matters less and less anyway.
In the EU it makes perfect sense to allow roaming between adjoining companies; people cross borders between their home and work every day.
If you're on the French side of the Rhine your phone may attach itself to a German network. Mine's decided to use Orange France on the White Cliffs and conversely a UK network whilst at Cap Gris Nez.
To what real extent is there a real subsidy anymore than between those on PAYG v Contracts. I suspect that like pre pay fuel meters that's a subsidy of the better of by those in straightened circumstances.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 24 Jun 21 at 21:42
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>> I’m ambivalent about the charges for roaming…at a personal level I’ve benefited massively from free
>> roaming, but on the other hand why should the (majority?) who roam less than me
>> subsidise my travel? And as WiFi access continues to become more prevalent, in built up
>> areas at least, it matters less and less anyway.
>>
That's a good point I hadn't thought of it that way.
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>> That's a good point I hadn't thought of it that way.
The flaw is that it is based upon the premise that the distance the phone call travels has a material impact on the cost. IXC services cause a cost, but it is minimal. And LDC in and out balance.
The actual cost of data services are not geography dependent.
The point about WiFi availability is well made though.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 25 Jun 21 at 03:57
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>> The flaw is that it is based upon the premise that the distance the phone
>> call travels has a material impact on the cost. IXC services cause a cost, but
>> it is minimal. And LDC in and out balance.
Can you explain the terms IXC and LDC?
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Sorry;
IXC - inter-exchange carrier - someone who links between a local network and an LDC and carries the data/call from one to the other.
LDC - Long distance carrier - someone who carries the call/data from one IXC to another.
LDCs and IXCs can be the same company or regarded as a single service but are not necessarily so.
So a call between us would be;
Me / local network / ixc / ldc / ixc / local network / you.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 24 Jun 21 at 22:35
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No I wouldn't think distance would matter costs wise, I know nothing about the mobile industry but would think costs increase the more companies that have to be involved in you making your call. More 'friction' more steps between companies therefore more cost to the customer?
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 26 Jun 21 at 22:22
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>> More 'friction' more steps between companies therefore more cost to the customer?
Pretty much, but distance does not necessarily mean more participants. It depends on the backhaul arrangements and the call.
For example calling another person next to you may be;
phone -> base station -> backhaul -> switch -> xxxxxxx -> switch -> backhaul -> base station -> phone
Where xxxxxx may be the main telephone network, the internet, data service or some other form of long distance provider, inter-exchange carrier, or others.
It is further complicated by the ownership in differing countries where various players own various servicers under various ownership arrangements in various countries and the financial arrangements between them.
We tend to judge simply by retail rates available in each territory, but given that it is difficult to know the make up of that cost/price then it is still difficult to judge. It may include different amounts of capital expenditure recovery, operational costs, profit and taxation.
I'm getting boring, aren't I...........................
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>> More 'friction' more steps between companies therefore more cost to the customer?
> I'm getting boring, aren't I...........................
>>
>>
No but you could have just written, yes you're right :-)
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>> No but you could have just written, yes you're right :-)
You're correct in that more links means more cost. That's just not necessarily proportional to distance.
I should have written that the first time. [sigh]
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 28 Jun 21 at 02:17
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According to this article, the UK introduced a cap of £45 per billing cycle for roaming charges unless you opt out.
www.theregister.com/2021/06/24/o2_reintroduces_data_roaming_charges/
The Beeb also does not make it clear that the "fair use" data clauses allow you to use ~25GB (depending on operator) of your UK contract allowance without charges. It's only once you've exceeded the 25GB that extra charges apply.
Mrs K and I spent 3 months in Spain before travel restrictions hit and my data use was probably less than I use in the UK. Every bar, eatery and even some beach areas had free WiFi.
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The WiFi point is fair, But that is no use to your Google maps on your phone
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>> The WiFi point is fair, But that is no use to your Google maps on
>> your phone
That's true but IIRC Google offers you the opportunity do download maps while route planning to avoid 'spotty' data. Mrs B stood outside our hotel in Austin whilst downloading maps of the chunk of Texas between there and San Antonio via the 'hill country'.
Involves thought, planning and time though
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You can download maps, but you still lose closures, live traffic and reroutes
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>> You can download maps, but you still lose closures, live traffic and reroutes
It's not much data though. I know it's Waze, not Google maps, but I used Waze all the way to Scotland from Cambridge (380 miles), then back, then up again, then back.
My phone tells me how much data Waze pulled to do that. Each run was under 10MB, and I pay 1p per MB on my PAYG tariff. Of course, on starting Waze to set the destination each time I was using WiFi.
So I had over 1000 miles of journeys with traffic and road closures and other Wazey info, for under 40p. Even if European data rates are triple that it would still be a couple of quid max.
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"The Beeb also does not make it clear that the "fair use" data clauses allow you to use " - that's O2. EE haven't said the same have they?
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It's in the link.
EE currently allows customers "with a domestic data allowance greater than 50GB" to use "up to 50GB while roaming in the EU" and "pay as you go or Flex" customers with "a domestic data allowance greater than 25GB" to use up to 25GB of the monthly amount while roaming in the EU. Anything above that portion is subject to a charge of £0.0036 per MB. For comparison, that's £3.60/GB*.
From January next year you can pay £2/day or £10 for a 30 day "Pass" to use ALL your UK allowance.
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>> From January next year you can pay £2/day or £10 for a 30 day "Pass"
>> to use ALL your UK allowance.
That's £10/month more than it costs EU citizens on an otherwise identical deal. And I'd bet £10 increases exponentially as time passes.
Still were an Independent Coastal State in control of our own fish, money and borders.
Brexit, the gift that goes on giving.
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To my mind it's right up there with what colour should our passports be. Neither data plans or passport colours are things that I can get worked up about at all. But I accept that they are more important to other groups of people.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Fri 25 Jun 21 at 06:51
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>That's £10/month more than it costs EU citizens..
It's peanuts and a minor irritation - that's all.
As mentioned above, free WiFi is ubiquitous and I'm pretty sure that live updates to Google Maps isn't gobbling up GB. It certainly wasn't when I was last in Spain. I used it a lot and never even noticed.
Brexit has caused much bigger problems for me so I am totally unconcerned by something that is unlikely to affect me, or indeed most folks.
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>> "The Beeb also does not make it clear that the "fair use" data clauses allow
>> you to use " - that's O2. EE haven't said the same have they?
Exactly that. It would be a pretty costly and perhaps unusual/minority interest contract that alloed >25GB/month, but nonetheless such contracts are no longer exportable.
I'd bet £1 to a pinch of peppermint that O2 would very much like to move the 25GB cap down in short order.
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OK I'll ask here rather than find out for myself!....
This affects data... so if I have 'unlimited' calls & texts will they be affected to an additional charge?
From what I've heard they plan to invest the money gathered in the UK infrastructure, would like to see physical evidence of that... bit like the work parking companies who haven't repainted lines or put up cameras and yet continually say they are reinvesting our daily payments.
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Do what I do when overseas, buy a local SIM from the equivalent of GiffGaff. I have a contract on a line that gives me 100GB of data plus unlimited calls and texts for under £8 per month. No need to worry when I arrive. Alternatively I could have a PAYG SIM which, as long as I use it once in 365 days, means I retain the number and simply top up as required. I haev done this for 20 years without problems.
So people used to visiting the EU on holiday, buy a SIM in the destination and have very cheap and easy time.
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Which means you need to have two phones carried about with you? If you are still wanting to keep in contact with your contacts?
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... or get a phone which can take two SIMS. I though many modern Android can, not sure about Apple. And of course if you are expecting to chat/text with your mates on your UK SIM without a foreign extension, that's gonna cost you!
Not all local countries have quite such easily obtainable short term non-contract as us. I remember trying to find a half-decent SIM in the US some years back and paying $80 for one with a month with modest data. OTOH in the few years I visited Egypt recently I was able to get a Vodafone SIM at the airport for about £8 with 10Gb data.
It's certainly worth doing the investigation before you depart!
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In many ways, I miss the days of being able to go away for a couple of weeks holiday with no one being able to contact me.
Same when working abroad, used to send a fax to head office once a week to report progress and get one back at the same interval with any comments/requests. Worked well at the time.
Feels now like you've got to let the world know when you've got to pee, and if you don't, you get asked by several people if you should need a pee by now.
I'm quite glad I'm old, I'm not sure I like it here.
;-)
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That reminds me of what a friend once told me...” Reality. A nice place to visit but I wouldn’t want to live there”.
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>> Do what I do when overseas, buy a local SIM from the equivalent of GiffGaff.
Why should I have to bother to mitigate the loss of a perfectly good service forced on me by a bunch of racist bigoted ingnorami.
Mind you I could send the bill to Dog like I promised
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 25 Jun 21 at 12:07
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It's a competitive world.
EE customers should vote with their feet. Companies which retain free roaming will be winners. It may be a get out for customers who are unhappy with EE but currently locked into a contract.
The costs and finances of the mobile and data networks are very largely fixed. Telecoms therefore need to maximise revenue - not look at the profitability of individual customers.
A little like airlines - flying a plane is largely fixed with the only variable costs largely related to baggage handling and airport charges. This is why seats will be discounted when there is lots of capacity on a flight and increase massively as the airline exploits seat scarcity.
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>>buy a SIM in the destination and have very cheap and easy time
Not necessarily.
www.cable.co.uk/mobiles/worldwide-data-pricing/
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EE to impose roaming charges across Europe - No FM2R
