Non-motoring > Cummings Miscellaneous
Thread Author: bathtub tom Replies: 76

 Cummings - bathtub tom
Who would ever employ this man again after being so spectacularly unfaithful to his previous employer?
What do we think of his new excuse for dashing home and going off to Durham? A group of people were outside his house, threatening. In that case, surely as a senior government advisor he would have a hot line to the police who would have been far better equipped for dealing with the problem far more promptly.
 Cummings - Fullchat
In the first instance I believe he's got delusions of grandeur.
 Cummings - Terry
I agree with you on his employment prospects, but some of what he had to say rang true.

In particular I can very easily believe that we were woefully ill prepared for a pandemic with limited untested contingency plans and inadequate supplies of PPE. Jeremy Hunt must take responsibility for this having been health secretary for most of the Tory reign since 2010.

Having worked in the public sector, in my experience many senior people are intelllectually and academically first rate. But the public sector gives greater rewards to those who avoid controversy over those who tread on toes to get things done. Hence poor processes for emergency procurements etc.

The rest of his testimony seemed along the lines of "everyone is an incompetent apart from me". He is clearly angry and bitter and may prioritise revenge against his former colleagues and masters over objective and honest evidence.
 Cummings - smokie
Lots of what he said were easy to say with hindsight. Easy pickings.

I don't like Cummings but I believed quite a bit of what he said about Boris and I think I like him even less.

I don't believe it's realistic to expect the govt can reasonably be expected to be completely prepared for every possible crisis. E.G. I can imagine the outcry when the Mail sees the bill for replacing all the stockpiled and unused PPE every 5 years.

Not every crisis is going to be a pandemic, which they will no doubt be better prepared for for next time.

I don't particularly trust this govt and his comment about donkeys leading the lions seemed entirely believable. Very few of the senior ministers really deserve their position IMO, or have proved themselves worthy of it. I like Hunt, Dishy, and to a lesser extent Gove. The rest are sub standard.

I will likely vote Tory next time again because they are the best fit to my own views, but the gap is narrowing al the time.
 Cummings - Manatee
>>Very few of the senior ministers really deserve their position IMO

>>I will likely vote Tory next time again because they are the best fit to my own views, but the gap is narrowing al the time.

And there you have it. There have always been scandals and sleaze in governments but it seems impossible for the these serial liars and incompetents to do anything career-ending or election-losing on current polling. Johnson must feel he could walk on water.

What was the game changer? Populism, Trump, 'social media'.

Doesn't say much for the opposition, or the electorate, or maybe both.

I haven't had time to watch or read all of Cummings's revelations yet but the comment about the choice offered in the GE was sadly too true.
 Cummings - RichardW

>>
>> The rest of his testimony seemed along the lines of "everyone is an incompetent apart
>> from me". He is clearly angry and bitter and may prioritise revenge against his former
>> colleagues and masters over objective and honest evidence.
>>

I saw a brief excerpt, seemed very similar to me to Alex Salmond's spat with the SNP (notwithstanding the different basis of course)!!
 Cummings - Zero
Much of what he siad may be true, he failed to say however he was at the centre of it all pulling strings, so bears much of the responsibility. If he things Boris is a fool, he attached his apron strings to him for a long time for a reason, and now only complains when he is pushed out.

The sheer volume and manner of his complaints however sounds like a spoiled child.
 Cummings - smokie
The whole affair, all sides of it, are a mess and should be an embarrassment to all concerned. But it'll be like water off a ducks back I expect, they'll just carry on as they have been doing.

The odd thing is, while I obviously didn't know the detail, none of it really surprised me.
 Cummings - Zero
The question is, would any recent UK government in power done any better, and the answer is almost certainly NO. Many countries were similarly in headless chicken mode. And some have been so later in the pandemic waves even with the benefit of previous examples. Those that haven't have been authoritarian examples with subservient populations.

The only time a government in the UK could have coped with this would have been in the ten years after the war, when leadership, a led population and existing (or recently experienced) command and control was in place.
 Cummings - smokie
I absolutely agree with that, it's what I've been saying all along, and still do, when people have been criticising the govt. And of course they were handed a double whammy with trying to organise Brexit at the same time.

Nevertheless I reckon they could have done just as well (or badly, depending on your pov!) without some of the less pleasant behaviours.
 Cummings - maltrap
He's a treacherous, lying b*****d.

Not necessarily in that order.
 Cummings - smokie
Which one? :-)
 Cummings - maltrap
The one who drove his car to test his eyesight.

With his wife & child in the vehicle.
 Cummings - VxFan
>> With his wife & child in the vehicle.

Only because his guide dog was at the vets getting his bits done.
 Cummings - No FM2R
Johnson is being saved becaus enot only is Cumming and unpleasant little worm, the media had done such a good job of convincing their readers of that fact that he has no credibility.

And Johnson is, perhaps, slightly less awful than Cummings.

Equally Johnson is riding the wave of successful vaccination, gradual opening and crap opposition with both Brexit & Covid should he need scapegoats..

It may have been the only time in history he could have been a successful PM.

 Cummings - Zero
Its probably the only time he would get elected.
 Cummings - Netsur
>>>It may have been the only time in history he could have been a successful PM.<<

The same could be said of Winston Churchill. But he is feted as one of the greatest Britons ever.

* Cometh the hour, Cometh the man..

* There is no one in this world who does only good and never sins - biblical quotation.

* Let one who is without sin cast the first stone - I don't usually quote from him being a heretic in my religion's opinion...

But I don't care that Johnson has his faults. They are clearly visible but nevertheless if he guides us through this pandemic so that by 2023 it can be seen that we ended up in a far better position than equivalent countries he will also be feted.

Anyone who slags him off had better show that they could and would have done a better job. That means being in the position of a possible Prime Minister and the technical capacity to make the decisions needed. The only person who was in this position was Corbyn (ha ha ha ha - good luck with that one)

In reality the only person capable of doing a better job would be a scientist able to grasp all the techanical details of virology, sociology and economics and I suspect no one exists in the world who meets those criteria.

Cummings is a sore loser. Yes, some things of what he said may be correct but like everything in politics; it's how you dress it up. He failed on every count this week.



 Cummings - Manatee
>>Anyone who slags him off had better show that they could and would have done a better job.

That's a bit silly.

 Cummings - No FM2R
>> >>Anyone who slags him off had better show that they could and would have done
>> a better job.
>>
>> That's a bit silly.

But my cat is up for the challenge.
 Cummings - Zero
I thought your cat had a job as Trumps hairpiece?
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 29 May 21 at 21:18
 Cummings - No FM2R
He did and was doing quite well, but then chickened out after hearing about some of Trump's habits.

"Trump said. “When you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab ’em by the pussy."


www.vox.com/2016/10/7/13205842/trump-secret-recording-women
 Cummings - Bromptonaut
>> Anyone who slags him off had better show that they could and would have done
>> a better job. That means being in the position of a possible Prime Minister and
>> the technical capacity to make the decisions needed. The only person who was in this
>> position was Corbyn (ha ha ha ha - good luck with that one)

That's risible. Do you need to suggest a better team and manager before being OK to slag off (or just criticise) a footie performance?

Boris has been lucky with vaccination. That does not ameliorate for:

Care Home deaths and lies around them

Deaths and transmission in hospitals; mess ups and lies over PPE and lack of hospital capacity which lead to people being triaged for treatment or death last Spring

Utter failure of Test and Trace

Late lockdowns

Faffing with herd immunity

Corrupt deals for mates

Jobs for mates (Dido H in particular).



No wonder he's 'frit' of a full public inquiry
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 28 May 21 at 21:11
 Cummings - Zero

>> No wonder he's 'frit' of a full public inquiry

And the labour party would have made a better job of it? Dont forget the government is only the shop window for the civil service. Blame them
 Cummings - smokie
Z raises a good point there. MPs are even less expert on most things than civil servants, who are the specialist advisers to the MPs. In turn maybe they get specialist advice from elsewhere but the ministers are really only articulating what the civil servants tell them.
 Cummings - zippy
>>That's risible.

Just to add to the total lack of proper PPE in hospitals for several weeks.
 Cummings - Lygonos
Likes Israel = good guy

Likes Palestine = bad guy

QED.
 Cummings - sooty123
I wouldn't say he came across as bitter, more like a general dislike of politicians.
 Cummings - smokie
Zippy, there was a pandemic on and the PPE was hard to come by. You can't just magic it up. They did try to, it went wrong and they got pilloried for that.

I know some out of date stuff was provided. If I'd been in charge I think I'd have done that if I had nothing else, in the circumstances.

Would one not moan like a moany thing if you found the govt had been spending millions a year on refreshing the PPE just in case something like a pandemic came along? I don't think may people could have foreseen anything quite on this scale. By the same token there must be other potential major disasters which they should stockpile for. I can't think of any except a nuclear war maybe, but who expected a pandemic that would quickly cripple the world?

With hindsight it's too easy to criticise what happened.

btw I don't particularly like or trust Boris so this isn't defending him. It would have been the same for anyone, and was, in many other countries.
 Cummings - zippy
I think we will have to disagree on this one.

There have been warnings of an overdue pandemic for years. Some emergency back up stocks should have been available.

You manage the short date ones by releasing them for sale as needed and buying replacements.

Or, you mandate the companies selling them to keep a proportion in stock for the authorities in much the same way that there is a mandate for fuel suppliers to keep 10% of all fuel in stock for the authorities in case of emergency.
 Cummings - sooty123
I guess it depends on your attitude to risk.
There's warnings of all sorts, famine, global warming through to war with Russia. Do we start revaluating those threats and start stock piling all manner of things? Food mountains, ammunition stock piles etc.
 Cummings - Kevin
One thing I haven't heard mentioned is what NHS procurement's responsibilities were with respect to pandemic planning and PPE supplies?
 Cummings - Manatee
Essentially, yes if it's feasible.

Europe (with the notable exception of Germany) didn't prepare for WW2. If Britain had, it might not even have happened.

Governments (especially where there are fair elections every few years) aren't very good at distinguishing the critically important from the simply urgent. Given our direction of travel, it seems unlikely that the planet will be habitable in 1,000 years.

Arguably a pandemic was a certainty and I'm pretty sure that was an assumption underpinning the contingency plans that did actually exist but were allowed to slide into a position of non-readiness.

Contingencies such as the sun exploding would be so disastrous that there is no prospect of recovery. No point in trying to make preparations. Yet what humans are doing to the planet is just as serious

The work, or at least the aims and purpose, of Extinction Rebellion is somewhat more important that Getting Brexit Done. But is it really on the to-do list?

 Cummings - Terry
I am coming to the conclusion that criticism of the government handling of the pandemic is skewed to support a preconceived political view - we don't like Boris!

Some criticism is justified - in particular the lack of contingency plans and equipment which meant that the first phase of the pandemic was poorly handled.

In the absence of a pandemic, how much criticism would have been levelled at the government of the day for the huge costs of maintaining such a contingency (warehousing, staffing, maintenance of kit, surplus capacity for oxygen, drug production etc etc. We may have now learned that it would not have been money wasted!

The assertion that care homes deaths are down to elderly being sent home from hospital is not wholly supported by analysis. Most infection was through care home staff - reported by Jenny Harries at the press conference 2 days ago.

Germany is held up as some sort of example of how to manage the pandemic - they did far better than the UK in the first lockdown having acted much more quickly, but since June 2020 have recorded 77,000 deaths vs 88,000 in the UK. Still better but hardly an outstanding success and their vaccine rollout lags the UK.

Italy Belgium, Hungary, Czechia, Poland have done worse than the UK in covid deaths per million. Spain, Portugal, France are not far behind.

None of this makes the outcome good - but reinforces the need for more balanced reporting and opinions of events. A full report on the pandemic is required - although I suspect if things follow the normal course of such things it will take 10 years or more.

Far better would be to breakdown the task into manageable chunks and deal with each more quickly - eg: contingency planning, vaccine funding and rollout, did government follow scientific advice, how was SAGE established, procurement processes etc.

 Cummings - Manatee
I've come to the conclusion that a lot of people don't want to see anything wrong with Johnson's conduct in relation to just about everything despite mountains of evidence of his dishonesty and incompetence.
 Cummings - smokie
I think you may be right. Yet even before becoming PM he had his moments, plenty of them.

I know someone who won't hear a word against the govt in general. In his case it's because they have delivered Brexit for him.

SWMBO likes Boris because he's been faintly amusing on HIGNIFY once or twice. She also liked Ken Livingstone for the same reason, though Diane Abbott failed to make an impression!
 Cummings - Zero
The man is a fool, unfit for office. He was out of his depth with respect to pandemics. As we all were. As most of the world was. To judge him and blame him for that is ridiculous, specially when there is so much more other non pandemic stuff to beat him over the head with.
 Cummings - Manatee
>>He was out of his depth with respect to pandemics.

But he didn't know what he didn't know. Dunning Kruger. There were experts.
 Cummings - Zero
>> >>He was out of his depth with respect to pandemics.
>>
>> But he didn't know what he didn't know. Dunning Kruger. There were experts.

In the early days the experts were practically useless AND contradictory, because they had no experience of a global pandemic either.

Sure they may know about virology, but they had no idea of how the sociology in a 21st century global environment would pan out with the virus.
 Cummings - No FM2R
>> The man is a fool, unfit for office. He was out of his depth with
>> respect to pandemics. As we all were. As most of the world was. To judge
>> him and blame him for that is ridiculous, specially when there is so much more
>> other non pandemic stuff to beat him over the head with.


I agree entirely with that, there is so much to criticise that trying to pin coronavirus on him is ridiculous.

And that is Cummings problem. He{s accusing Johnson of stuff that people fundamentally don{t care about. And he{s also trying to drag them back to the hell of 12 months ago when they are trying to enjoy the more optimistic time of today.

I know that deaths in care homes are awful and a terrible thing, but the truth is it doesn{t really get under people{s skin, even if it should. How many times have care home residents been referred to us forgotten people, long before COVID'19 was invented.

I read an article this week, in the Times I think but maybe not, that suggested that it would be normality that would bring Johnson down, not the pandemic. Once the scapegoats of Brexit and the Apocalypse are past then Johnson will be faced with usual business, usual audience and usual media and I think that is likely to be his downfall.

He may be able to carry a crisis, but day to day normality is quite beyond him.

 Cummings - Manatee
Ian Hislop nailed it on HIGNFY. Cummings is an arsonist pretending to be a firefighter.

IH also noted Gove was left out of the 7 hour evidence.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sat 29 May 21 at 23:12
 Cummings - Lygonos
My presumption was, like Sunak, Cummings thought they were competent (ie more capable than he was) and left them alone?

 Cummings - Manatee
>>My presumption was, like Sunak, Cummings thought they were competent (ie more capable than he was) and left them alone?

You might be right but, such is the level of scepticism I have been brought to by the whole odious gang, I thought it was more likely that Cummings has decided to help Gove* knock Johnson off the top perch.

* and/or Sunak - I think he actually gave Sunak an upvote at one point, saying he had committed some COVID support when Johnson opposed it.
 Cummings - Robin O'Reliant
The view from the mean streets of Clacton -

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/30/cummings-is-just-bitter-clactons-residents-dismiss-attacks-on-pm
 Cummings - sooty123
>> My presumption was, like Sunak, Cummings thought they were competent (ie more capable than he
>> was) and left them alone?
>>
>>
>>
Fairly unlikely on either, I would have thought.
 Cummings - Zero
>> My presumption was, like Sunak, Cummings thought they were competent (ie more capable than he
>> was) and left them alone?

A: I dont think Cummins thinks anyone is more competent than him

B: "leaving alone" is not a phrase he has even considered.
 Cummings - No FM2R
>>A: I don't think Cummins thinks anyone is more competent than him

Or righteous.
 Cummings - Bromptonaut
>> IH also noted Gove was left out of the 7 hour evidence.

Cummings entree into government was as a SPAD to Gove whilst the latter was wreaking havoc on education.

Sacked at insistence of PM (Cameron) who thought Cummings an Industrial Psychopath.
 Cummings - sooty123
Having watched a couple of DM's lectures on yt, he comes across as someone who has a total disinterest in many that don't share his point of view or at least not at his level of interlect. He seems to me to be an intelligent person but quite obviously can't play nicely with others.

He must have known it would all end in tears, he made far too many enemies, not least in the ERG during the brexit campaign. Perhaps he did know how it would end but was drawn into government like a moth to a flame.
 Cummings - No FM2R
DM?

Sorry if I'm being dense.
 Cummings - sooty123
Sorry my fault should have been DC, ie Dominic Cummings.
 Cummings - No FM2R
That's a relief, I thought I was losing it.
 Cummings - Rudedog
We need a phase for BJ equal to 'Teflon Tony', it seems absolutely nothing will stick to make some people open their eyes to him.
 Cummings - Terry
Blaming the Tories because they achieved government through somehow bad or unfair tactics is a little like coming second in an athletics race and blaming the winner for running too fast.

Blaming the public for voting Tory is to suggest they are foolish and stupid. Not a recipe for winning their support next time they are confronted by a ballot paper.

The Tories won power and maintain a poll lead as the opposition fail to present themselves as a credible alternative. Their perfomance was and (sadly) continues to be inadequate.


 Cummings - Zero

>> Blaming the public for voting Tory is to suggest they are foolish and stupid.

Yes quite, they are.
 Cummings - No FM2R
>>they are foolish and stupid.

That's regrettably often true whichever party they vote for.
 Cummings - Manatee

>> The Tories won power and maintain a poll lead as the opposition fail to present
>> themselves as a credible alternative. Their perfomance was and (sadly) continues to be inadequate.


I can but agree, all the have to do is contrive to look credible and wait to pick up the pieces.


Separately, I deplore the attacks on the BBC and demands to defund it, a trap set by the Conservatives. For all its faults it is a treasure, a pearl beyond price. Apart from the news, who is going to do all the current affairs, science, arts, natural history, documentaries etc., not to mention the glory that is BBC radio - already damaged by cuts? Nobody, that's who. Amazon, Netflix, Sky won't do it in anything like the quality and quantity and they all cost the viewer more than the BBC for what they deliver. I can't believe there are very many households who genuinely never watch or listen to BBC output.

However - whatever else the pandemic has done for the government, it has given it 100's of hours of free airtime to make its case in those almost daily 'updates'. It shouldn't be a surprise that it still has a lead in the polls.
 Cummings - No FM2R
>>Separately, I deplore the attacks on the BBC and demands to defund it

Demands to defund it are ridiculous. Aside from anything else how will it be controlled if a handle is not kept on the cheque book? Ofcom? My a***.

THe main point is, though, that a funded PSB is essential. Otherwise you will only be shown stuff that someone can make money from showing you. You won't be shown stuff you need to see, or that a smaller group are interested in seeing, or that is higher quality just because or anything else.

You will see only enough to make a profit from you. Consider a village bus service relying in ticket sales.

The BBC's output should not be budget controlled. Their corporation overheads and running costs should be very tightly controlled, but not their content output.

A good quality FTA PSB is about the most important thing one can have in the media world.

I do think the BBC needs slapping back towards it's charter somewhat, and Bashir needs a good clubbing, but that shouldn't doom an entire concept.

Zero often says that it can't be biased overall if everybody is complaining about it, and I think that is a good point. I dislike its sensationalism, particularly in its headlines, but the information is there. A bit dumbed down these days, but there nonetheless.

I am not sure the Conservatives are after the BBC particularly, they just love righteously ganging up on stuff, as do most politicians. However, they know they can gang up on the BBC whereas Sky, for example, would simply tell them to pss off.
 Cummings - sooty123
>> We need a phase for BJ equal to 'Teflon Tony', it seems absolutely nothing will
>> stick to make some people open their eyes to him.
>>

I wouldn't say that, the government's lead has been reduced to 6 points in the opinion polls. His personal approval rating is now down to 3 points ahead of SKS.
All seemingly down to Cummings revelations.
 Cummings - Duncan
His personal approval rating is now down to 3 points ahead of SKS.
>> All seemingly down to Cummings revelations.
>>

Will it last?
 Cummings - sooty123
>> Will it last?

Dunno, who knows what is around the corner.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 1 Jun 21 at 11:44
 Cummings - Terry
That approval ratings and polls can vary by so much or over so short a period is evidence a large part of the electorate are either thick, or influenced by the superficial and immediate, or both.

People respond to hope and positivity in precisely the same way as they respond to ads which promise to make you 20 years younger, banish wrinkles, make hair and skin glow etc etc.

Boris has an excess of charm and positivity. It matters not that you dislike his policies or you think him incompetent. He has managed to persuade (or fool) sufficient of the public to believe in him consistently for the last 3 decades.

KS strikes me as a decent individual - intelligent, balanced, fair, thoughtful etc. But he does not inspire. He may have, but does not communicate a vision. He seems reluctant to take bold action to eradicate the far left of the party for fear of alienating a part of his support.

The reality of political leadership seems more about marketing, promotion, creating a brand, communicating a vision, motivating and energising. KS does not have this.

He will only succeed if BJ fails more profoundly than he has already:

- the Cummings revelations have barely scratched him,
- multiple covid failings are neutered by an effective vaccine rollout
- funding of the refurbishment of No11 is inconsequential despite a media spotlight
- a half baked brexit deal sold as the answer to the nations prayers has failed to derail him

Rational debate will not unseat him. It needs a truly radical change in the labour party to get any traction at all.
 Cummings - No FM2R
>>It needs a truly radical change in the labour party to get any traction at all.

It is certainly true that The Labour PArty needs to sor titself out, both from a message/marketing point of view, but also in real terms. Where do the unions, the radicals, the extreme and the moderate fit together?

However, as I said before, I think that the tedium of day to day reality will do for Johnson. He won't go out in a storm of disaster, but more likely in a cloud of ineffectual confusion and inefficiency.
 Cummings - Robin O'Reliant
The Labour party no longer understand who the working class are. The Islington crew who have taken the party over still think of them as dockers, miners and car workers, very few of whom still exist.

The present day working class are the shop workers, carers, cab drivers, couriers etc. But the great and good still aspire to marching along Whitehall with 10,000 striking miners, their banners flying high as they yell "Torys out".

But of course many of the new working class are self-employed, something those well to the left of centre have always despised.

Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Mon 31 May 21 at 18:08
 Cummings - No FM2R
I entirely agree

The Labour Party got all the Labour voters and it wasn't enough. They now need to work out how to get the Conservative and Liberal voters as well.

And I think that inevitably means ditching the "striking miners" and "Longbridge" image. But it means more than ditching it for an election campaign, it means convincing the voters that it is ditched full stop.
 Cummings - Bromptonaut
>> That means being in the position of a possible Prime Minister and
>> the technical capacity to make the decisions needed. The only person who was in this
>> position was Corbyn (ha ha ha ha - good luck with that one)

So of two people one is a lying narcissist with zero grasp of detail and zero willingness to engage in it and a proven record of shifting to the winds and the other is Jeremy Corbyn but you imagine the first to be better suited. I think you are allowing your own prejudices and Corbyn's alleged Antisemitism to colour your view. We have no idea how 'Team Corbyn' would have done. Even if you assume Diane Abbott to be as stupid as some here say, and I vehemently disagree, the rest of his Cabinet, based on their shadow roles, were far more able people than Boris's current crew. It was mentioned a couple of times over the weekend's political reviews that they were chosen for the advocacy of, or at least willingness to accept, a hard Brexit, now out of their depth in a national crisis of near wartime proportions. A Narrow Gauge cabinet in a Broad Gauge crisis as on observer put it. Gove and Sunak are probably the only ones with any real skills to match the demands made of them.

It's nonsense on stilts to try and blame advisers as though the PM and Cabinet are just the public face. The fact is that they've repeatedly ignored advice from the Whitty/Vallance team to the point that there were times last year when they were on 'Resignation Watch'. Late last Summer the government was under a lot of pressure from a cohort on the back benches to put business recovery ahead of public health and ease up restrictions and/or avoid a circuit breaker lockdown. Opting for the former, in the teeth of scientific evidence that numbers were replicating those in early March, cost thousands of lives to add to those lost as a result of being late locking down in Spring.

The shambles around Christmas was all of Johnson's making.

If he's doing as well as can be expected then some people's expectations are astonishingly low!!
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 1 Jun 21 at 16:05
 Cummings - sooty123
He's hardly on his own in that thought. The last election told us that.

The fact is that they've repeatedly ignored advice from the Whitty/Vallance team to the point that there were times last year when they were on 'Resignation Watch'.

Depends who you ask, people I know think the PM is run by Scientists in SAGE etc who are obsessed with lockdowns.
The bulk of people unhappy with him fall into two camps, unhappy for very different reasons.


Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 2 Jun 21 at 02:34
 Cummings - Terry
It is abundantly clear that individual attitudes towards Boris are driven more by political identity as much as reality. An example - the SAGE minutes in March 2020 confirm he largely followed the advice he was given, not ignored it as many would incorrectly argue.

He is completely amoral, opportunistic, and egotistical. This is not something new, he has been consistently successful deploying the same behaviours for the last three decades.

It is speculation as to whether a Corbyn lead alternative would have done better had they won in 2019. But as they would have had precisely the same problems with completely inadequate contingency plans in place, the start would have been no better.

What the last 5 years has reinforced in my mind is that elections and public opinion are not won by perfect human beings. The public reaction to the Cummings revelations thus far has been underwhelming, despite their seriousness.
 Cummings - No FM2R
>>It is speculation as to whether a Corbyn lead alternative would have done better

We don't have to guess what Johnson would do, we know.

He listened to scientists and their advice, I think, but kept trying to spin it or present it to make it palatable, justifiable or supportable in an political environment. He was prone to delaying decisions until the path became unavoidable or self-evident more than he was prepared to take a flyer. He seems to try to avoid betting on his own opinion.

I do not accept the whole "needless deaths" s***e. If the last year has proven anything it is that the virus cannot be prevented from spreading and once you're infected then your death or survival is out of Johnson's hands.

For every person whining about lockdown being delayed there is another whining about lockdown happening at all. For every person whining about restriction there is another whining that a restriction wasn't in place. All s***e.

On the other hand the vaccination approach and program has worked extremely well, and if we're going to hold him responsible for everything else then we probably need to largely credit him with that.

It makes no sense to find excuses/reasons to blame him for bad stuff and then work equally hard to exonerate him from good stuff.

The UK has ended up in a reasonable place and Johnson was nominally in charge.

Would Corbyn have done any better or worse? I have no idea. Corbyn seems like an honest man, but also seems like one the opposite of Johnson and prone to knee jerk decisions without thinking them through, and certainly without any interest in compromise or negotiation..

I'd have expected restrictions to be more draconian, welfare payouts to be higher, and a refusal to trust private entreprise restrictive in the vaccine arena.

I'd trust Corbyn with the economy like I'd trust Johnson with the NHS - Not.

Overall, I am sure that Corbyn would have done a different job - better or worse is impossible to know and typically the stance on that balance depends on party allegiances.

This insistence on hating, or loving, everything a politician does depending on party politics is ridiculous, tiresome and very shortsighted.

Honest judgement on motivation and results, not subjective opinion based on political position would be a far better approach.

I'm not holding my breath,
 Cummings - Bromptonaut
>> He listened to scientists and their advice

But didn't follow it.
 Cummings - No FM2R
You may have missed the larger point, I think.
 Cummings - No FM2R
>> I think you are allowing your own prejudices and Corbyn's alleged Antisemitism to colour your view.

WTF??? How did you get anti-semitism into this? Did I miss something?

 Cummings - Bromptonaut
>> WTF??? How did you get anti-semitism into this? Did I miss something?

I was responding to Netsur.

If you still need me to expand then I will.
 Cummings - No FM2R
I guess I don't, but I think you might have been better to skip over that bit.

Not that I am one to give advice on such behaviour.
 Cummings - Kevin
It seems that Cummings was supposed to submit written evidence to the committee to back up his claims that Hancock repeatedly lied in cabinet meetings and to Joe Public. The deadline for him to submit that evidence was yesterday.

Err, I guess he must have forgotten.
 Cummings - Bromptonaut
>> Err, I guess he must have forgotten.

That or he's been paid off or promised something.
 Cummings - Kevin
Promised something?

Don't think so. He knows exactly who he's dealing with.

"Wire transfer to this account in Grand Cayman" if he has any sense.
 Cummings - No FM2R
>>That or he's been paid off or promised something.

Not likely, really. Aside from anything else I cannot imagine anybody taking the risk of offering a bribe to such a mouth, already rpoven to be loose.

But he's done his worst, I can't really see that proof, even had it appeared, would have caused it to have any greater or more significant impact.

In the absence of new stuff, I'd say his bolt is shot. No real need to take the risk of trying to silence.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 9 Jun 21 at 21:00
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