www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56897186
This is simply grotesque and makes me wonder what these POSs do when noone is watching.
If I was in charge I'd sack those involved in the arrest, whoever didn't promptly arrange medical attention, and also these fist-pumpers after the event, and then resign.
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So would I. In general, I'm amazed at what some people in authority will do in the full knowledge that they're on camera. Either they're thick or they believe that they can behave with impunity. In this case, it would appear to be the latter.
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Pond life and nasty with it. It's clear that a lot of police in the US are out of control and those in charge are equally to blame if not more so.
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Law enforcement in the US needs a root and branch review. As far as Policing is concerned it's the land that time forgot.
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Struggling for words to describe that interaction.
i believe there is an underlying attitude in the US as regards the enhanced use of force which goes right up to the use of the military internationally and the belief that it is perfectly ok. The stoical belief of the right to bear arms and carry them in public is just part of that mindset.
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There have been hundreds of US cases of armed intervention at nation level since before the first civil war, with the persecution of native Americans, and present day predisposition to violence probably stems from them. The US now often behaves like a colonial power, with some measure of control over about eight offshore territories, Puerto Rico being the best known.
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The US had a lawless and vicious beginning glorified and romanticised by Hollywood to the point that emotionally it replaced reality.
As a Nation they believe that characters played by Willis, Stallone and Schwarzenegger et al are real and somewhere between aspire to be like them and believe that they are them.
One only has to watch any Reality TV about American Authorities, police, customers or whatever, and listen to their speech and watch their behaviour. Their self-image is beyond belief. I rarely watch US Reality TV, but on the occasions I do they are unreal. I saw one where they had stopped a young lad on the US/Canada border who wanted to go by bus to meet his internet sweetheart on the other side.
THey terrorised the lad before ending with "Well, we didn't find anything this time but it'll be a lesson for him so he doesn't try anything next time".
Derek Chauvin wasn't some crazed killer, he was just a US cop behaving with all the righteousness and entitlement that they all behave with. And don't be thinking the non-white police are any better.
I've lived in the US a lot over the years and they've always treated me well and respectfully. At one point I was living in a nice house in Palo Alto next to a Black American working at the same place as me. Great chap, VP Sales.
The s*** he used to go with was unbelievable, and I witnessed it. Just endless hassle of being stopped, questions, bothered in front of his wife and kids often.
There are many non-white in the US who deserve everything they get. There are many, many more who do not and who are abused.
And my experience their bosses will think them totally in the wrong for doing it in front of people and getting caught. Not for just doing it.
Even the good ones can get caught up in it all.
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And in London parents will need to think twice before telling their children to go find a policeman if lost...
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-56950484
Policeman sacked but CPS declined to prosecute.
Last edited by: zippy on Sat 1 May 21 at 16:13
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>>And in London parents will need to think twice before telling their children to go find a policeman if lost...
What an utterly ridiculous comment.
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>> >>And in London parents will need to think twice before telling their children to go
>> find a policeman if lost...
>>
>> What an utterly ridiculous comment.
>>
Yes, because it worked out so well for the girl in this instance didn't it.
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Yes, and because that's what happens every time, isn't it.
A ridiculous extremist comment entirely driven by your deeply unhealthy anti-police obsession.
Indeed by devaluing all police you are part of the problem causing conflict between the Police and the public by driving away mutual respect.
Attack the one copper with any language, feeling and vitriol that you feel and I'll be right there with you. Use it to fund your obsession with and hatred for all coppers and I'll do my best to tear it down.
And in a minute you'll say how some of your best friends are coppers, how you know it's not all coppers, blah blah blah. Doesn't stop you saying it though, does it.
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>> Indeed by devaluing all police you are part of the problem causing conflict between the
>> Police and the public by driving away mutual respect.
>>
Bent coppers are doing it to themselves and have been for generations.
Spoiling it for all the good ones.
And, all those coppers that don't report their colleagues actions - the same goes. In this instance none did. It was the nurses at the hospital treating the girl that put in a complaint.
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>>Spoiling it for all the good ones.
So are you.
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>> >>Spoiling it for all the good ones.
>>
>> So are you.
>>
What, little old me, in a forum with a couple of hundred contributors, by positing a one line comment has more impact than an actual cop beating up a girl. Wow, get your perspectives in order.
I am wondering if you will blame the BBC, Mail, Standard or many other news organisations for spoiling it for the police by daring to run the story.
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Are you really that dense?
Whereabouts exactly did I comment on the running or not of the story? Where did I say it shouldn't be reported?
I referred to yet more of your anti-police hate speech.
And if you don't think attitudes start with a single person, wtf do you think they do begin?
And yes, if the BBC, Mail or anybody else posted such a puerile comment, I would indeed blame them.
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You can be obnoxiously rude sometimes.
Wondering... thinking about what your thought process may be, not stating that is what you said, inferred or implied.
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>>You can be obnoxiously rude sometimes.
Yes, I can. Sometimes unwittingly, mostly on purpose. Usually when I am responding to a comment which I find so wrong, and that offends me so much, that I feel it deserves no respect whatsoever.
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>> >>You can be obnoxiously rude sometimes.
>>
>> Yes, I can. Sometimes unwittingly, mostly on purpose. Usually when I am responding to a
>> comment which I find so wrong, and that offends me so much, that I feel
>> it deserves no respect whatsoever.
>>
Actually, too quick to jump on a deliberately placed trigger IMHO. After all, I have been away for about a month and anticipated the reaction I got - though I had hoped it wouldn't be taken too seriously. After all, if I said your favourite goalie should be shot for letting in an obviously easy goal would you comment in the same way? I would hope not as whilst there is clear annoyance about the performance of the said goalkeeper, no one really expects him to be shot - we are not in Columbia after all.
Do you actually believe that the comments made here are 100% serious and reflect the actual person posting? We are all complex people, living in a complex world with views that are not black and white. So in one breath, I can say the cops stink because of this or some other incident easily found on the interweb and in another, that cops deserve medals because a squad of them ran towards the danger, have to clear up after a murder etc.
I support wholeheartedly increased public sector spending on the NHS and the Police to raise standards. I think stop and search is an overstep of powers, but approve of it because the knife murder rate among young, predominately black kids in London is disastrously high etc.
I also believe there should be better phycological vetting of the police and a more open complaints process that includes more prosecution of wrong doing, because police are not treated the same way as members of the public (take two recent cases of TWOCing by police officers who were disciplined but not prosecuted or the case of a cop caught with a crowbar and other similar equipment late at night but not done for going equipped) and the failure to be open, fair and equal in legal consequence damages the fundamental tradition that the police are the public and that the public are the police.
I support the The Peelian Principles and believe that in some areas the standards are not being met, for example, "The police earn public support by respecting community principles. Winning public approval requires hard work to build reputation: enforcing the laws impartially, hiring officers who represent and understand the community, and using force only as a last resort." has not been met in some communities for some time.
Complex beings are we. Just don't judge us by one line comments made here.
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Gosh, this'd be done better over a beer.
>>Actually, too quick to jump on a deliberately placed trigger IMHO.
I am too quick to jump on a deliberate trigger? Why place a trigger deliberately? I entirely don't get that. Is it like an amusing spectator sport or something? Don't you feel that must devalue everything you say if you are prone to that sort of thing? That is not a behaviour I understand.
Neither do I try to second guess it. These comments will stand long after you and I have lost interest. Who knows what impressionable person will come mooching along, not knowing either of us, not knowing the group, not being a member, but still read the comment. That one thing is why I dislike, and rarely actually do, leave comments standing.
I am not a "whatever" chap, or someone who ignores stuff. If it is is wrong, then it is wrong. Whether you posted it sincerely, cynically or as part of a game does not change the fact that the comment is standing in view..
>>Do you actually believe that the comments made here are 100% serious and reflect the actual person posting?
Actually yes, I do. I've not really ever thought about that before, but now you ask me that is exactly my assumption and exactly what I think.
I assure you it's always the case for me. If you judged my character solely by what and how I post here, you probably wouldn't be too far from the truth. Good or bad.
>>So in one breath, I can say the cops stink because of this or some other incident easily found on the interweb and in another, that cops deserve medals because a squad of them ran towards the danger, have to clear up after a murder etc.
Not my approach. The s*** cops aren't wonderful because a good cop did something and the great cops aren't s*** because a bad cop did something.
To take it toward the other post we're in at the moment, would you dream of saying "black people are...." because a black person did something bad? I seriously doubt it. You would realise how ridiculous that would be.
And that was my objection to your comment, and previous similar comments.
Be clear, I judge you by them as you no doubt judge me by mine. If you don't like the judgement, then don't make the comment. The responsibility for the comment is yours, not mine. Ditto the other way around had I said something, of course.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 1 May 21 at 19:38
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>> What an utterly ridiculous comment.
The girl was lost, distressed and mentally ill. She found a policeman and got tazered, CS'd and had the s*** beaten out of her with a baton.
Not exactly an advert is it?
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>> Did you miss my point?
No. Zippy makes a reasonable point.
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Sorry guys, but what happened to this girl at the hands of the Met is nothing short of criminally shocking. Arguing over the semantics if this is a good advert or not diminishes the point.
A vulnerable girl sought assistance from a London Policeman, was beaten, tazered, gassed and all that happened was the copper was sacked.
Zippy point is valid, If those parents had told their daughter to seek help from a policeman if needed, they are more than regretting their guidance.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 1 May 21 at 19:59
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>>what happened to this girl at the hands of the Met is nothing short of criminally shocking
It's worth than criminal, it's inhuman. I care not a jot what happens to the guy beyond that I hope it's awful.
>>Zippy point is valid, If those parents had told their daughter to seek help from a policeman if needed, they are more than regretting their guidance.
If I tell my children to wait at a crossing when the light is red, and they are killed standing there, that does not make the advice to wait at a red light bad. Nor does it mean that they should no longer wait at red lights.
That is why the point is not valid.
That does not mean we should not fight to make it the way it should be and to improve it beyond where it is, but our comments, and the thoughts they represent, matter.
Had I given the "ask a copper" advice and it gone this badly wrong I would not regret my advice. What should I have said "If you're in trouble you're on your own"?
My desire for punishment and improvement would be boundless, but I would still understand what I was dealing with.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 1 May 21 at 20:24
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>> If I tell my children to wait at a crossing when the light is red,
>> and they are killed standing there, that does not make the advice to wait at
>> a red light bad. Nor does it mean that they should no longer wait at
>> red lights.
False comparison alert.
The light is an inanimate object, the copper was not.
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False comparison alert?? Pretentious much?
The subject was the advice, not the copper. Do try and keep up.
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I was left speechless when I heard this story yesterday...
I hope really that the CPS's refusal to prosecute isn't the end of this, has they been a reason given for them not to go forwards?
The PC would have had a body-camera surely that would be pretty good evidence plus wouldn't he have been with a colleague who would have witnessed the crime? or are they saying this isn't classed as some kind of crime?
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>> I hope really that the CPS's refusal to prosecute isn't the end of this, has
>> they been a reason given for them not to go forwards?
It would be interesting to know/see more of what exactly happened but there's not a lot in the public domain.
The Police Complaints Authority only publish anonymised 'learning points'.
The Disciplinary Tribunal was, unusually, heard in private - probably to protect the young woman's interests. As of now I cannot locate an outcome report on the Met's website.
I agree with Rudedog that it is, at its mildest, surprising that the CPS didn't proceed. I wonder if that was also a public interest thing related to the victim's welfare.
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>> www.policeconduct.gov.uk/news/met-officer-dismissed-without-notice-after-using-excessive-force-teenage-girl
>>
>> Unfortunately no real detail about failure to prosecute.
Thanks Zippy, I was looking in the wrong part of the IOPC website.
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I would suspect, no hope, that the failure to prosecute was to shield the girl from going through medical reports, and giving evidence in court.
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>> I would suspect, no hope, that the failure to prosecute was to shield the girl
>> from going through medical reports, and giving evidence in court.
As stated above that would be consistent with the approach of the Police Discipline Tribunal. The normal expectation is that Tribunals will sit in public but the guidance allows that the press or public may be excluded from all or part of the hearing in the interests of morals, public order, national security, where the interests of juveniles or the protection of the private life of the parties so require
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 2 May 21 at 14:56
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I know a small number of police personnel. In particular one (a female) quite high ranking and another, 25 years in service (male). He's transport based and moves around the country, but mainly the City of London on escorting duties. I respect them both enormously as they are straightforward, approachable and are both realists. They state that they are surrounded by 'Snowflakes' as colleagues, not all, but most. They also say that it is impossible to get sacked from the force today for being lazy. Neither is impressed with their lot. The article that is being referred to here nearly brought a tear to my eye this week and I have to say that Zippy makes a fair point. The calibre of officers needs to be raised by a fair margin, but then so does the behaviour and attitude of the average 'Joe' on the street. I could go on but......................
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And in other news...
In the same week that a member of Joe Public was given a £2000 fine for breaking Covid regs in Basingstoke (serves him right).. Hampshire plod closed the A33 at Micheldever for two days over the Bank Holiday weekend after 200 "travellers" turned up and held pony and trap races on the roadway. Plod also provided 'advice' to the manager of Basinsgtoke Crowne Plaza Hotel after a "drunken and aggressive" crowd arrived, drank the bar dry and abused the bar staff.
£$%^ing cowards.
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Police Abuse - John Boy
