Thinking about moving house and looking at the legal side, I've come across a firm of 'conveyancing lawyers' that appear to have excellent reviews.
Anyone any views and experience of the difference between solicitors and conveyancing lawyers?
I recall conveyancing firms had bad press years ago, but seem to have disappeared.
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They are all appalling when it comes to conveyancing, all of them, without exception.
When I become leader it will all be done on line by the buyer and seller and anyone who has charged for conveyancing in the past will be used as landfill.
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What's a conveyancing lawyer?
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I'm taking a wild guess, maybe a lawyer who specialises in conveyancing? :-)
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>> What's a conveyancing lawyer?
bfy.tw/QmmC
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>> >> What's a conveyancing lawyer?
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>> bfy.tw/QmmC
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We could all do that, but this place would be a lot quieter :)
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>> >> What's a conveyancing lawyer?
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>> bfy.tw/QmmC
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I hate dopes who do that.
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>> I hate dopes who do that.
I hate dopes that have an opinion about it ;)
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I'm never quite sure what the message is supposed to be.
Is it "you could have used Google"? Well surely everyone knows that but would prefer to ask a 'friend'? Or at least chosen to do so.
Is it "this place is not for asking questions, gho to Google"? Then what is it for?
etc.
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>> Is it "this place is not for asking questions, gho to Google"? Then what is
>> it for?
I dunno - I'll ask Google
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Google's not talking to you either.
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>> Google's not talking to you either.
Dont be horrible about my imaginary friends
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One of us married up into God's people. It wasn't me. I was already there.
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>> >> I hate dopes who do that.
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>> I hate dopes that have an opinion about it ;)
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If we used Google all the time, then there would be no point in a forum. Isn't that what a forum is for? Asking questions? Giving answers? Expressing opinions?
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Conveyancing firms, as I understand it, tend to have a bunch of people that aren’t solicitors/lawyers do most of the work but refer to a qualified solicitor when needed. Whereas with a local firm of solicitors there’s usually a solicitor that handles your file until exchange, and then hands it over to someone else to do the Land a registry / Completion Statement / money stuff.
Pros of the conveyancing firm are that its lower cost as you’re not paying solicitor money for everything. But the major con, in my experience of dealing with buyers that do use these firms, as that the person handling your file won’t necessarily appreciate what is and isn’t important. Computer either says yes or no. And so anything non standard needed referring up and takes for ever.
I always use a local solicitor who I figure knows any oddities of the area, understands the local authority process/timelines and knows the local estate agents as well. They’ll still be difficult to get hold of, but when you do you can have a sensible conversation!
And if you’re spending 6 or maybe 7 figure sums I’m not sure that saving a few hundred quid on advice is necessarily a sensible move...
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I entirely agree.
Find a good Solicitor, someone who takes care and does the work himself, and stick with him.
Not a sensible area to try to save a few quid.
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In the early 80s I had dealings with lawyers - client accounting & conveyancing.
The conveyancing at that time, in Scotland, had 35 steps - 32 of which did not involve a lawyer.
A paralegal would fill in the blanks in standard text and print it & send it off. Await return and then send of the next ...................
The big difference between a good local solicitor was he knew the local market, he knew most things about most of the other solicitors, surveyors and could smell a rat.
I used a local man for my 3x sons' first houses - all went well with the builders and private sellers.
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Conveyancing firms are specialists and set up to be cheap. They use staff whose goal is to tick boxes as quickly as possible.
I nearly used one some years ago when buying a buy to let. The selling agent didn't tell me the lease precluded letting. The conveyancing firm didn't bother to mention it. Only because I read the lease thoroughly did I get alerted to the problem.
I would be disinclined even to consider using them in the future - paying a few hundred ££ to get the job done properly seems a good deal when 6/7 figures are at stake.
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I'd be inclined to go for the solicitor too but there is no guarantee that they would always do any better.
Mate just sold his £600k+ house through Rightmove who I had as a cheaper options (and they were, by quite a few thousand) but they did all that a "proper" estate agent would have done - vetting buyers, talking pics and doing write up, managing viewings and offers, but for something like £6k less. Maybe he just got lucky, in a sellers market.
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I'm 'in the market', use Zoopla and Right Move as my first choices for browsing properties. All the local agents seem to be on there, I'd assume anyone looking for a property would use it also.
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>> But the major con, in my experience of dealing with buyers that
>> do use these firms, as that the person handling your file won’t necessarily appreciate what
>> is and isn’t important.
We bought our house in '93 with planning permission for a house in the garden, which is where we now live. I renewed the permission every 5 years as required. We decided to build in 2012 and the planning notices for the changes we had applied for went up about 10 days after we got new neighbours. They were furious; and wrote some very childish stuff on the Council web site during consultation. The bloke invited Mrs H upstairs next door to show her that 'his' view of our garden would disappear, to be replaced by the planned house. The point being that Mr next door had used a conveyancing firm and was completely unaware of the planning permission that had been in existence for 20 years. The couple were so miffed they started house-hunting almost immediately and left the following year.
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I've used both, and I've heard stories of both conveyancers and solicitors mishandling things and failing to look after the client's interest properly.
On my last move, 20 years ago now, we bought a bungalow whose plot bordered an (unused) field access strip on one side. The vendor told me that he had, and I would have, right of access through it into the side of my back garden.
As the transaction was in progress, I asked the solicitor whether I did indeed have this right. She said yes.
19 years later I was to demolish to bungalow and build a new house, so I got the papers out and paid for a copy of the title record. It includes a note that in 1996 the then owner (before the one who sold it to me) asserted that he had this right of access. This didn't seem to me to be the same as saying the the title holder of the bungalow has right of access over the strip.
I consulted a local solicitor (not the one who did the purchase transaction) who said "You have a good case", meaning essentially that I don't have it. He suggested a couple of ways of approaching it, one requiring the cooperation of the land owner (why would they? I wouldn't) the other using adverse possession, which I am not prepared to do - not least because I would have to claim that I had had exclusive use of it for 10 years, which isn't true.
Because I want to have access for a vehicle / machine / caravan to the back garden, I have therefore ensured in the design that I have 3m. between the house and the boundary on that side. Good thing I checked. Fortunately that works very well for the street scene, the new house is actually about 6m. from each of the neighbouring houses.
Point being, the conveyancer let me down even though I used a solicitor. Rely on no-one and check everything yourself.
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Top tip - use a local firm. E-mails can't solve everything. It's a s*** system and needs a major overhaul.
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Once our house buying nightmare is over, I'll bore you with the details. I am never, ever, ever moving house again.
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I am
>> never, ever, ever moving house again.
I think loads of people say that ;)
Last edited by: sooty123 on Thu 22 Apr 21 at 20:34
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>> I am
>> never, ever, ever moving house again.
Think you said that last time.
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moved twice 36 years and 18 years ago. both times we did our own conveyancing. was inspired by a book bought at ideal homes show ,called, the conveyancing fraud. pretty much it's boxes with not to my knowledge tick. it all went quite smooth, no prob.
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It's become more complex to do it, but it can be done, there's a lot of reasons to do it through a professional. Not least you've got someone to sue if it goes wrong ! ;-)
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>> It's become more complex to do it, but it can be done, there's a lot
>> of reasons to do it through a professional.
I thought you were/are a solicitor? Surely you would do that yourself?
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>> I thought you were/are a solicitor? Surely you would do that yourself?
But then he has no one to sue... ;)
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 23 Apr 21 at 11:24
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ive nowt to do with solicitors. you might have guessed by my usual dodgy grammar. not saying you should do it yourself, but some houses are quite straightforward. best thing you could do is speak with neighbours before signing up
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I've been in the same place for the last 45 years and this is a steep learning curve, (think) I've settled on a local solicitor. Surprised to find some aren't taking on any new work at the moment because of the amount they've already got. I skirted those suggested by the estate agent after reading reviews. The reviews for the one I hope to be using are good, but hope they are, as it must be a good sign for others not taking on new work.
It seems the average to completion is 15 - 20 weeks. Doesn't bother me as I didn't expect to make the stamp duty cut-off date, although I may make the second as I'm a cash buyer.
Solicitors fees look to be in the region of £12K - strewth, just as well I'm sitting down. I've never paid that much for a car!
Last edited by: bathtub tom on Thu 22 Apr 21 at 22:42
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12k? I hope you're getting 1 to 1 through out for that much!
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>> 12k? I hope you're getting 1 to 1 through out for that much!
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Including stamp duty...
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In my current job I am on the other side of this - registering the properties for the Scottish equivalent of the Land Register. Some pretty mundane work but some of it quite interesting especially when you have to trail through old deeds to find the "rights and burdens". A farm that has a river running through it - farmer owns the land, someone else owns the fish in the river, someone else has the right to the water etc etc.
Also worth noting that a lot of effort goes into doing these knowing that 99.9% of the time, they will never be looked at and if you ever did want to do something about your rigts and burdens, you would be talking lots of legal costs.
As an example, where I live all properties have a long list of conditions relating to heights of fences, no commerical vehicles to be kept, no caravans etc etc. Obviously over the years, these have been totally ignored and no one has felt inclined to do anything about it.
There is also a huge reliance on solicitors doing their job properly as we mostly take at face value what they tell us. So if A has been left the house in the will by B and we get the paperwork to that effect from the solicitor, we will register accordingly.
If you have a bent solicitor, a bent mortgage consultant, you can run amok!!
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That reminds me of the "entrepreneurs" who buy up strips of land bordering houses / land. All legal - "useless strips of land maybe only a foot or 2 wide.
They then take the house owners to court citing that they are trespassing on private land as they take their car into their driveway. A few thousand pounds is demanded for access.
Locally a man built a new house, set back from the road and accessed by a lane - the owner had bought the land and built his house only for a cottage owner, nearer the main road, to perk up and demand a huge sum for access rights when the chap was moving into the new house.
Eventually solved, 3/4 years later, by the solicitor used in the land purchase paying up, or rather his professional indemnity insurer coughing up a 6 figure sum for access and "repair of the lane" caused by construction traffic
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>>That reminds me of the "entrepreneurs" who buy up strips of land bordering houses / land. All legal - "useless strips of land maybe only a foot or 2 wide.
Really the height of stupidity to either buy or build a house without checking for ransom strips.
That said, ransom strips are not what they once were. 20 years of uninterrupted use cancels them and in most cases the owner is only entitled to a fraction of its actual retail value. Also public authorities can compulsorily purchase them.
The real problem is the lengthy and expensive lawyer fight.
Don't forget, though, that ransom strips have a good side. They can be used to prevent unwanted expansion or building, for example. They often feature in agreements in land sale to ensure that the use of the land is controlled, etc. etc.
As I say, the stupidity is in not knowing that they are there.
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>> In my current job I am on the other side of this - registering the
>> properties for the Scottish equivalent of the Land Register.
Is that what they call Registers of Scotland?
When I was a new EO in 1979 they were constantly trawling for staff in that grade.
At the time all I wanted was to get home to Yorkshire. If I'd known more of Scotland at the time I'd have been tempted.
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Our chain (4) seem to be using local solicitor based conveyancing. Out of the blue yesterday got a call from a former colleague who is now in an independent practice. He's doing mainly family and employment, won't touch conveyancing - the indemnities/insurances are far too expensive.
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I don't think I've even been in a chain. Probably just as well I am not very tolerant about that sort of thing.
On the very rare occasions I might have been, I have sold, rented, bought in that order. No stress, much better chance of getting a good deal for exactly what you want at either end since I never need to sell and never need to buy. Time constraints are a bargain's enemy.
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We have an option if our's sells and our onward purchase falls through.
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>> We have an option if our's sells and our onward purchase falls through.
Thought you'd sold the camper van?
;-)
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Some bloke in a BMW thought it was a bus and pulled out in front of it.
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I’ve a surfeit of tents...both small and smaller.
Happy to help
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Real life - we have the following chain, A - the house we're buying, B our sale and purchase, C our buyers, D their buyers - first time buyer living with his parents. A&B are going fine - locally based solicitors. B&C bumping along with our local solicitor. D has a large internet conveyancers (who are either based in London, Cardiff or El Salvador for all we know) who get a major part of the contract wrong. Delayed another two weeks. There's a lesson there.
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Real life 2:
The property we're trying to buy is a probate sale. Heard the seller has only just applied for probate. Told that can take twelve weeks at the moment.
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I applied for probate at the end of January and got a response within eight weeks.
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Why somebody selling as an executor waits for a buyer before applying for probate is
>> a mystery.
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Probably because lots/many/some of the population have no understanding of probate, including never heard of it before.
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>>Probably because lots/many/some of the population have no understanding of >>probate, including never heard of it before.
I expect most people will be aware of probate, but perhaps not of how long it might take.
We saw a few such properties before our recent move, and in each case probate applications had been made before for sale boards appeared.
Last edited by: Clk Sec on Sun 16 May 21 at 16:05
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Depending on the estate, getting probate can take some time. Not just waiting for the probate office approval, but agreeing and settling tax liabilities, investments (eg: private company valuations), simple collection of all data and bank accounts now so many are online.
Given the time taken for the average house sale to go through, it can make sense to start the house sale process before probate is actually granted. Particularly if the beneficiaries want their hands on the money quickly.
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Our (reasonably) simple transaction will complete in just under three months. In fairness the last 2 weeks are delayed for non conveyancing reasons (holiday and availability of house removals) - I can't imagine anything having taken a much shorter time to proceed - searches have taken ages, ours took over 8 weeks to obtain. Our buyers had slight advantage in having being able to obtain our previous (failed) sale searches to hand. My father's home is going on the market soon and should sell very quickly, I'm toying with buying in our own searches as soon as it goes on the market to save time for a cash buyer.
House market is red hot around here. One estate agent on Anglesey have no bungalows on their books, our small local selling agent had fewer than 16 houses in total on his books and is punting for available sales. We found our new house by asking on the town that we wanted's Facebook page and got it before it was referred to an agent.
We had a survey on our purchase - one company said they were so busy that it would take three weeks to do the job. Another surveyor took it on and we had the job done in three working days at half the price of the first company...
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It took me over a year from application to receipt of probate on my mother's estate, recently.
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>> It took me over a year from application to receipt of probate on my mother's
>> estate, recently.
Thanks a lot for that, I was hoping to be in by Christmas.
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Must be a staffing issue then, 4 years ago ti took me three months.
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Why somebody selling as an executor waits for a buyer before applying for probate is
>> a mystery.
>>
In the case I am dealing with at the moment, the Council Tax has been waived until March31 2022, or the Grant of Probate, which ever occurs first. With few buyers in prospect during lockdown it seemed sensible to delay for a little while.
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>>With few buyers in prospect during lockdown
Ha ha. Have you seen the market?
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Ha ha. Have you seen the market?
Depends where! Depends on property! Depends on target market!
Do you want to make a quick few grand - you can buy it from me!
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I’m assuming that the property market is overheating in certain areas...probably out in the country, provided it has decent transport links.
On a monthly basis I get A4 flyers through my letter box from private individuals wishing to buy in the area. Local estate agents have reduced stocks, any new builds are being sold off plan, often by word of mouth without even being advertised.
If I could find somewhere half decent to rent locally I’d take the money and run
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Whereabouts is the property? Any reason its not likely to be popular?
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 17 May 21 at 10:40
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March. House goes on RM on the Sunday....Tuesday 4 viewings booked - sold to the first who saw it for the asking price. They were a diverse bunch. Local people (who bought it) Cheshire people who wanted a second home etc etc.
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South Devon, 'retirement' flat,
Ex McCarthy Stone but no current leasehold problems!
Very good location. Competitively priced.
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Five properties just up the road from mine sold STC over the past few weeks. Three almost overnight, two within a couple of weeks.
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There's a 4 bed bungalow near my house, big garden and all but gone on for half a million quid!
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Just exchanged contracts !
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We were STC up until 29 January 2021 when we were supposed to move house. Our buyer (no chain) pulled out through no real fault of his own, due to an unavoidable set of circumstances (although forseen as early as September 2020) it was a big disappointment - equally disappointing was to lose the house that we wanted. The house went back on the market on 1.3.21 and was STC on the 3.3.21, and that's where we've been until today. In the meanwhile we had an offer accepted on a property that hadn't yet gone on the market 9 weeks ago. Very few hiccups along the way, we missed two completion dates due to our buyer's buyer, but all the ducks got in a row last Friday and a completion date agreed seemed achievable - so we move home in two weeks. Got a week's holiday booked from Friday....
This has been a real journey but we got it done !
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>> Just exchanged contracts !
>>
Cool. Hopefully all will go through smoothly now.
Property prices round here are certainly up. A two bed terrace (what Miss Z is looking for) last September was £230k and is now £260k. There is just a shortage of properties which is pushing up prices IMHO.
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The mate I mentioned upthread who sold his £600k+ house has bought one which was up fro £700k IIRC. He paid £770k. They were one of two who offered over the odds and rather than ending up as an auction the agent said to both to give their full and final offer. My mate did abut once the other party found himself outbid he wanted another chance.
Last edited by: smokie on Tue 18 May 21 at 20:34
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Typically, a holiday we'd booked last summer was booked for the week before completion (we complete on 1.6) - thanks to excellent pre-contract work from our Solicitor we were able to exchange on just before we left for our break. Some minor problems with my bank in transferring money to our solicitor in advance of completion...questions as to how long we'd known him, how did we get the account numbers etc etc, all to avoid scamming, money was finally transferred this afternoon - now good to go on Tuesday next week.
Never moving again.
in
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>>
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>> Never moving again.
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Everyone says that ;-)
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A couple of houses in this village gone up for sale and board changed to sold inside 48 hours.
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>> >> Never moving again.
>> >>
>> Everyone says that ;-)
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My folks moved in to a very nice bungalow 11 years ago now. Large enough to have visitors stay, modern enough not to require a lot of maintenance* and a decent sized low maintenance garden.
They are now looking to move to one "nearer the shops". Though they are only 10 minutes from the town centre.
On moving day, their solicitor transferred the life changing payment for the bungalow to the wrong account effectively losing £350k, then went to the pub for the afternoon.
Luckily it was all sorted and they were able to get the keys at about 17:00ish. The moving company wasn't too pleased though.
*3 meters of flashing on the roof connecting the UPVC porch has recently failed. Quotes have varied from £300 (quite reasonable) to £8,000 (thieving b**t*r*ds).
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I er..forced an entry to a property with a friend when the estate agents failed to deliver the keys when we arrived with his stuff. Both sets of solicitors were on board. It added a little adrenaline to proceedings ! Our estate agents haven't asked for our house keys...they were excellent at the outset in March - only heard from then once since, but for what we're paying them, I don't really care.
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>> I er..forced an entry to a property with a friend
>>when the estate agents failed to deliver the keys when we arrived with his stuff.
>> Both sets of solicitors were on board.
Many moons ago inlaws moved from just south of LHR to the Worthing area on the South coast.
Removals guys packed the contents, parked locally overnight and set off the next morning.
I arrived at 11.30 in time for keys at 12:00 completion time
95% of the van was already in the new place. " Oh we know how to gain access. We cant wait for these legal AAAAs to get their act together !"
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There was quite a satisfying clunk when the door lock came off.
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>>Some minor problems with my
>> bank in transferring money to our solicitor in advance of completion...questions as to how long
>> we'd known him, how did we get the account numbers etc etc, all to avoid
>> scamming,
I only transferred a few hundred quid initially, the hoops I had to jump through. Found I can only transfer £100k and if I want to move more, it'll cost me, with no guarantee of protection - thieving ************s.
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>> I only transferred a few hundred quid initially, the hoops I had to jump through.
>> Found I can only transfer £100k and if I want to move more, it'll cost
>> me, with no guarantee of protection - thieving ************s.
>>
Most banks offer the facility to transfer in lots of £100k. So if paying £700k, that's 7 x £100k and no fees.
We have clients transferring £x millions like that. It's a right pain to save £20 and must cost them more in time to do it.
There are anti money laundering rules that the bank probably needs to follow as well as protecting customers from fraud perpetrated against the customer.
When we moved in 2018, I transferred £1 first and checked that the solicitors had it before transferring the remainder. Crazily from the sort-code I knew I would be able to check it went to the correct account - but it's not worth my job for the cost of a phone call. I could have mistyped the number for the transfer so it's still worth me sending a small amount first.
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>> When we moved in 2018, I transferred £1 first and checked that the solicitors had
>> it before transferring the remainder.
I've done that a few times too, including transferring a large sum to my sister as an insurance policy paid to me on our Mother's death.
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Not sure how the Co-oP handled our transfer (32k) but it was a process - in fairness there was a load of questions about our Solicitor, how long I'd known him, asked whether I was lying to them or I'd lied to the Police (!), how I;d had the account details. In fairness the latter was personally handed to me by the Solicitor in his Office ! Co-oP have a ceiling of 19999 by online transfer..maybe would have been easier to do it that way. Interesting info zippy....not that there is going to be a next time
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>> in fairness there was a load of questions about our Solicitor, how long I'd known
>> him, asked whether I was lying to them or I'd lied to the Police (!),
>> how I;d had the account details.
>>
The banks are under huge pressure re financial crime - both from the criminal aspects - the bank can be fined, the staff can be fined and go to prison and the obligation to repay funds to customers in the case of fraud.
When I transfer money from an account at one bank to another I am amazed at the speed that it happens considering the hundreds of checks that need to be done for AML and sanctions checking, fraud checks etc.
I don't work in a branch but I see from our banks internal chat room that customers still come in to transfer life changing sums to people they have only just met - including so called police turning up at the door to tell the customers there is a crooked banker that they need help to catch or a dodgy builder marching an elderly customer to the branch to withdraw their life savings for a job that should be a couple of hundred Pounds.
When this happens the branches call the police on 999 and say "Banking Protocol". The police are supposed to turn up and explain to the customer that they are being scammed. Of course the branch staff and manager will do this as well, but if they have been told not to trust the bank staff....!
Solicitors and other professionals are targeted by crooks who intercept their emails and send new account details to customers, which is probably why the Co-op were asking questions as well as their AML obligations.
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We moved your yesterday...no thanks to our solicitors or estate agents ! Expected contact from the estate agents as regards dropping off keys form Friday last week. Nothing. Left a message with them on Monday (yes I know it was a Bank Holiday but their contact centre answered and yes they were working) no response from them - they finally returned mystery call on yesterday afternoon....2 hours after we'd moved, in the meantime our keys had been dropped off at the solicitors' office on Tuesday morning. 1230 - Money still had not moved. 1pm the branch shut up shop for an hour, during which our buyers turned up with their trucks. Ours trucks had departed...in the end I contacted our sellers' solicitors (also shut up shop for lunch) and confirmed the money had arrived and got the keys. Our solicitors finally phoned after 2.30pm, we'd been in our new house for an hour....
Estate agent can now whistle for another sale that was lined up in the area by a family member, we'll go elsewhere.
BT have predictably been awful - spent hours on the the phone with their useless call centres - three "orders" placed and cancelled - complained in the end and finally a "manager" dealt with the matter - will take at least two weeks to get internet from the useless bunch. At least they sent mea little mobile hub thing (which is currently MIA - but will turn up I'm sure) House is great - living in a town for the first time in 40 odd years, but it's nice.
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Oh, the joys of moving owse! .. I've done it 15 times in all, and that's not including 2 remand homes, 2 'approved' schools, and 1 detention centre.
:-(
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BT finally connected us yesterday 13 days after we moved in ! What a shambolic company.
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>> BT finally connected us yesterday 13 days after we moved in ! What a shambolic
>> company.
OI! Nothing to do with me, probably Open Reach.
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Openreach were, as far as I know just fine, BT's shambolic call handlers were to blame. Had a call from a named resolution person..Totted up a £146.00 compo and 10 quid discount a month for the 24 month Halo 3 contract. This guy has been very good, regular phoned and text updates.
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That’s pretty poor. When I moved in March, despite having a 6 week gap (in a holiday cottage) between moving out of my old house and completing on the new, the BT line was active on the day of completion. The new router was delivered the day before completion. And that was despite the confusion caused by the vendors initially refusing the takeover request as they had nowhere to move to and didn’t want to pay the exit penalty on their package! SSE was also a seamless move, but, needless to say, both councils were pretty slow...
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Council has been spot on, as has Sky and Octopus and the Royal Mail, who successfully intercepted the range extender disc and redirected it, that BT sent to my old address nearly two weeks after we moved....the second mini-hub is still in limbo though
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Conveyancing lawyer - Zero
