Now that virus levels are rapidly declining and jabs are proceeding apace I felt I should support the High Street rather than online suppliers. I recently wanted a battery conditioner for my motorbike and checked online, Halfords were selling them at the same price as Amazon. i also wanted some cable ties to instal the connection that enables the battery to be charged without removing from the battery box.
I drove into town and popped into Halfords, couldn't find them on the shelf and enquired only to be told that they are only available online! I then went to Wickes to pick up some cable ties and the queue was very long. I gave up, went home and ordered from Amazon at the same price.
This morning I wanted a large tub of fertiliser for the garden, checked online and saw that a country store nearby stocked what I wanted at a sensible price. I drove there, only to find it was out of stock. Guess what, I ordered from Amazon at the same price.
Well, I tried. But I think there is theme here and in a competitive market experience, as ever, is a good teacher.
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Need to try a stop next door's cat getting in the garden so got chicken wire from the Garden Centre to fit across the wrought iron side gate so she cannot just squeeze through. Intention was to secure wire with cable ties which I thought I'd pop into Halfords for.
Found cable ties in the Garden Centre.
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>> Need to try a stop next door's cat getting in the garden
I was plagued by local cats leaving their turds. Bad enough when you find them with a mower, but a strimmer!
Found a recommendation they don't like different smells, particularly citrus. I now save all orange and lemon skins, chop them up small and scatter them around. I can currently see a couple of turds in my neighbour's garden, but none in mine.
Might also be because I got a water blaster and shot any cat on my property (recommended by a vet).
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The better shops allow you to see stock levels to see what's actually in the shop to save a wasted journey. Screwfix etc do that, Halford do as well.
Always worth checking beforehand.
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You could get a battery charger, cable ties and a tub of fertilier all at Screwfix. Order and pay click and collect from your local store. Best of both worlds. Great shop, huge ranger of products and good prices
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I've never visited a Screwfix store. There is one within striking distance of me so I think I'll grace them with a visit.
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>> I've never visited a Screwfix store. There is one within striking distance of me so
>> I think I'll grace them with a visit.
Thats the point, you dont Its not a shop.
If you need anything you order it and pick it up.
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"I've never visited a Screwfix store. There is one within striking distance of me so I think I'll grace them with a visit."
That's the only snag. Its not a place to browse and compare. You have to know what you want before you go.
I seem to regularly get in a queue behind someone who does not understand that model. To be fair the staff do try and embrace them.
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To be fair the staff do try and embrace them.
>>
With a 9413V
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The high street as we knew it 10 years ago is truly dead. Covid and lockdown were the final nails.
The public are responsible for this - and I include myself - forever chasing best value which usually means lowest price. Rent, staff costs and other overheads mean that high streets cannot compete with sheds and online.
Screwfix and toolstation are excellent examples of how businesses can run. Trading from sheds typically on industrial or commercial estates. Pricing very competitive against traditional DIY sheds (B&Q, Wickes etc) all of which need "consumer friendly" environments.
Also huge growth during covid in online food and consumables.
The real issue is how high streets can evolve to have a vibrant future. In more prosperous parts of the country high streets are already becoming social hubs - places to browse up market retailers, meet friends, coffee and restaurants.
The less prosperous may simply become streets pockmarked with closed shops, discount stores, £ shops, cheap takeaways. Councils will need to be very radical and inventive in their solutions as business rate income will fall and government funding is unlikely as they try to pay for Covid.
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"With a 9413V"
Had to check out the catalogue.
:)
Last edited by: Fullchat on Sun 4 Apr 21 at 19:40
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>> "With a 9413V"
>>
>> Had to check out the catalogue.
>>
>> :)
Me too - smashing.
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>>
>>
>> That's the only snag. Its not a place to browse and compare. You have to
>> know what you want before you go.
>>
A sort of Argos for blokes, you mean.
I get it.
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Screwfix is essentially a catalogue shop, like Toolstation where I got a nice solid aluminium 1200mm level last week. Checked stock online, ordered and paid, collected an hour later.
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And my grundfos CH pump. I wont bore you with the recent C/H tale of woe.
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Screwfix was opened in around late 70s and was bought by Kingfisher (AKA B&Q).
The original Screwfix founders then opened Toolstation 5 years later and sold out to Travis Perkins (Builder's Merchants)
Must be a "bright family business" - good idea and sold it on TWICE!
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>> And my grundfos CH pump. I wont bore you with the recent C/H tale of
>> woe.
Why break the habit of a decade?
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>> Why break the habit of a decade?
I wasnt going to, but I will, and its Duncans fault.
For the last 6 months, C/H pump has been getting noisier, but working.
Synchronous motor in three way valve failed, - replaced.
Then the low flow boiler lockouts started, just once every few days. Turned up pump speed, knowing pump was failing - to nurse into into spring when major choices* could be made.
Then the lockouts happened daily, moving to multiple times per day.
Sighed and had to lash out premature* money on a new pump from good old screwfix.
Last time I changed a pump, the isolation valve nuts were grimly hanging onto the pump body, and I had to chop the pipe off to get the pump out. So last time pump installed I put coppaslip on them - What a bright boy, pump changed in less than thirty minutes, with minimum agro. Old pump choked with hard sludge.
Fired it all up, pump spins - lockouts - no flow. Bottle vents are welded shut with scale, cant vent system.
Get new Bottle vents, (good old screwfix) start to drain down system
Wont drain at lowest drain point. check water in header, full but going nowhere.
Decide I will drain via pump isolation valves, water comes out at drip speed.
Stuff some thin wire in pipe towards boiler - goes 5 inches to where header feed pipe joins and stops. Blocked with hard sludge.
So much scratching of head, I fabricates a device out of thick stiff wire coathanger, heat up and make a corkscrew on the end, stuff it in the drill chuck, and start to drill along the pipe to feed join. Voila! water floods out, frantically remove new drilling device and shut isolator before bucket becomes overwhelmed with what looks and feels like crude oil.
Pump refitted, System filled with descaler and pump jury rigged to mains, bypassing boiler control, and circulated for several hours.
System drained and refilled (this is a 3 hour job each time due to lots of air traps) and now heating working better than it ever has. A full weekends work, aided by a screwfix less that 4 miles away open nearly all the time.
*Boiler is eleven years old, Domestic hot water flow to main bathroom has been pants for years,
called plumber, cant have a Kombi, poor mains water flow, so whole lot is going to be ripped out and replaced with an indirect pump assisted system - waiting for the quote.
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Zero, I am sure that I speak for all subscribers on C4P when I thank you for the generous length of your post?
Where would we be without you?
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>> Zero, I am sure that I speak for all subscribers on C4P when I thank
>> you for the generous length of your post?
That was the abridged version, I know I could of done a precis.
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My sister has a £100 Argos gift voucher. She decided to get her first portable DAB radio (she's 73)
She eventually chose a nice little Roberts jobbie. They didn't have it in stock at her local Taunton branch.
I suggested a nice little Sony jobbie that wakes me up to Steve Allen on LBC at 6:40 am every morning.
They didn't have that in stock either
She eventually got it from Amazon with next-day delivery (sterling service!)
Another fumbs up for Screwfix + Toolstation, and Tooled-Up.com
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Screwfix are good - we have one in the next town, all click and collect - wanted some number plate screws yesterday, there's a small indie motoring shop in the same town. Old school shout from behind a mask and they throw it at you ! It's actually a great little shop that has everything you need car wise.
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The demise of the traditional High Street in favour of edge of town retail parks and online ordering is the best thing that has happened to shopping in recent decades.
Who the hell wants to go back to a time when you had to spend nearly all day trudging from one little shop to another, laden with bags and having to deal with shop keepers who varied from excellent to ignorant psychopaths. I still remember the misery of being dragged round with my mother when I was a nipper, both of us short of temper as she hated it as much as I and everybody else did. Now you can pull up at your local retail park, get your weeks groceries and your new telly next door to one and other or even from the same shop and walk a few yards to load them in your car in the free car park.
The High Street has become a place to have a coffee and a sandwich and browse the smaller shops who still provide those goods and services for which there is a demand but does not suit the business model of the big guys.
And thank God for that.
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>> The demise of the traditional High Street in favour of edge of town retail parks
>
>> And thank God for that.
Agree mostly However. We are in danger of losing the town /village centre. The focal point, an attraction, a draw , without which there is no footfall so no smaller shops, delis, coffee shops. It needs careful planning, for which councils are abhorrently ignorant - able only to focus on rateable income.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 4 Apr 21 at 11:53
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SWMBO and I were taking about shopping the other day. We tend to get nearly everything delivered now, groceries once a week. But we both remember the pre-supermarket days, mother (usually, as often non-working, though mine started to work when I was about 8 or 9) shopping almost daily for perishables in the local grocery store and any shopping for household items etc (which really wasn't so frequent I suppose, with less disposable income) being done on a Saturday in the high St (shops not being open on a Sunday, or after normal work hours in the week).
For Zero, RR (and maybe others, was it CGN?) I recall Bodgers in Ilford and also Bearmans in Leytonstone quite well so they must have been regular visits. The Facebook group "Growing Up in the Ilford area (Redbridge, Gants Hill etc in the 60s 70s" has some great pics and people yapping which might be of interest.
Last edited by: smokie on Sun 4 Apr 21 at 12:30
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I remember Bodgers, Harrison Gibson, the pioneer market, my auntiy used to work in Macfisheries, before she got a job as a clippie based out of Ilford Garage.
Equally from the other - canning town - side of the family I remember rathbone market and a bloke there that would sell hot sarsaparilla,
The Market is dying a death, even the big ones - blackbushe has gone, Kempton is going is Romford Market still alive?
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 4 Apr 21 at 12:46
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Romford Market is still going. Queens Road market in Green Street, Upton Park was my regular trudge with my mum on a Saturday, now i believe a covered market if it is still alive. I remember the department store Chiesmans along there too.
Was it Fairheads in Ilford that was the department store along Cranbrook road?
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Ah Rathbone market, forgotten that. I still have some furniture from (I think) Harrison Gibson - proper teak stuff we were given when we married, not look-a- like. Bodgers was a good Father Christmas but Bearmans was better LOL
My Dad used to get Dad stuff (I'm thinking tools and gear not porn!!) from a shop at Stratford Broadway - Martins?
We also used to go to "the Houndsditch", which was more of a warehouse IIRC, but I can't remember why. I think you needed to be a member Also Gamages, which I'd place now somewhere up near Holborn but I could well be wrong. to see FC.
So back to topic (almost) - the parade of shops just on our street corner in Aldersbrook Road in the early/mid 60s consisted a baker/confectioner, hairdresser, grocery/butchers, newsagent, off licence, funeral director, taxi office and a photographic shop. Also a well used phone box - we didn't have a phone till probably the early 60s - and a pillar box.
I suppose you could survive without even going any further.
EDIT: also the Courtney Hotel was next to the parade of shops, my sister's wedding reception was there.
Last edited by: smokie on Sun 4 Apr 21 at 13:48
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Anyone remember Ilford Discount Stores (I think that's what it was called) on Ilford hill? I've still got an impact driver and a metric socket set I bought from there when I had to remove the engine from a CB200 mid seventies. The place was a goldmine for tools of all sorts at cheap prices.
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>>We also used to go to "the Houndsditch", which was more of a warehouse IIRC, but I can't remember why. I think you needed to be a member.
My MIL had a membership card and I can recall going there. “the Selfridge’s of the Jewish quarter.”
It closed in 1986
A familiar scene ?
www.shutterstock.com/editorial/image-editorial/shoppers-in-east-end-outside-the-houndsditch-warehouse-1639674a
hidden-london.com/gazetteer/houndsditch/
www.londonpicturearchive.org.uk/view-item?i=51670&WINID=1617548952576
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>>The demise of the traditional High Street in favour of edge of town retail parks and online ordering is the best thing that has happened to shopping in recent decades.
Not for me. I used to go to the town once a week on market day for fruit, veg, meat and eggs, have a pint and pub lunch (sometimes 'spoons).
I stopped going early in lockdown due to the number of folk at the market who weren't wearing masks and were picking up the produce and handling it. SWMBO's CEV (Clinically Extremely Vulnerable) and we were being very cautious
Our local edge-of-town retail park is accessed either by a road that's been made into a traffic jam by bus lanes, Morrisons, ALDI and pedestrian controlled traffic lights, or a traffic light controlled junction that has thirteen (yes 13) sequences. Fortunately I can get to a Tesco click-n-collect a couple of miles away without any hassle as long as I don't go near the school in or out times.
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bathtub tom said
>> Not for me. I used to go to the town once a week on market
>> day for fruit, veg, meat and eggs, have a pint and pub lunch (sometimes 'spoons).
Speaking of dear old Wetherspoons - I can't wait for them to re-open. I do enjoy a well kept pint of beer and good, well cooked food all at reasonable prices.
Neverspoons app shows all the 'spoons pubs and alternative pubs nearby - on a map. very 'andy!
neverspoons.app/
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>> Speaking of dear old Wetherspoons - I can't wait for them to re-open. I do
>> enjoy a well kept pint of beer and good, well cooked food all at reasonable
>> prices.
You can kiss that goodbye, your local spoons has closed, and a lot of them wont reopen now the cheap labour has roggered back to europe
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Maybe he'll get served by an ex pilot and baggage handler?
Or maybe not if you want the right drink on time...
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In support of 'spoons, I did some work in some of them. The ale was kept in good conditions and in date. OK, the grub wasn't up to much, but you got what you paid for. Any complaints seemed to be dealt with a refund. I've drunk in many worse pubs, but not many better. I've occasionaly heard the local 'ole scrotes' get voluble and use offensive language, but a loud 'keep it down please' brings a member of management quickly to the scene to threaten them with eviction.
Zeddo isn't a fan, obviously, but with his dosh he can probably drink Peroni wherever he chooses.
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Just a joke, I've no issues or hang up about spoons, been in plenty across the UK.
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>> Just a joke, I've no issues or hang up about spoons, been in plenty across
>> the UK.
Been to a spoons three times.
One to see what they were like, another to confirm what I found, the third was an emergency.
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>> Been to a spoons three times.
>>
>> One to see what they were like, another to confirm what I found, the third
>> was an emergency.
So, I am not likely to see you in my local Wetherspoons?
Well. it's not all bad news, then?
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OK pubs but the man who is their public face is an ass hole.
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"OK pubs but the man who is their public face is an ass hole. "
What do they say - 'one man's ass hole is another man's freedom fighter'?
He saved my beloved Corn Exchange for future generations and, better still, turned it into a pub.
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>> He saved my beloved Corn Exchange for future generations and, better still, turned it into a pub.<<
From what bleak future was it saved, Haywain?
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"From what bleak future was it saved, Haywain?"
Well, firstly, I should declare that my personal love for the building stems from the fact that our band played there many times between 1989 and 2004; it's not Wembley Arena I know, but we had some fun times. I moved to Bury in 1975 and got to know the Corn Exchange as the beautiful Grade 1 listed building at the top of Abbeygate Street and, as a concert venue, before I actually played there.
In 2017, I attended a lecture at Bury Record Office by Dr John Orbell, a professional historian who had just written a book titled "A Handsome and Substantial Building - a history of Bury St Edmunds Corn Exchange"; I have the book by my side at the moment. I learned that the present Corn Exchange was the second incarnation, built in 1862 - the earlier building simply wasn't big enough. Apparently, corn trading only took place for two hours on a Wednesday afternoon and, pretty soon, it was realised that the building wasn't earning its keep and therefore further uses had to be found. It was used for dances during the war, wrestling, roller-skating rink, concerts and private social functions. Its main use was as a concert hall, but the acoustics weren't brilliant and, when the purpose-built 'Apex' was completed in 2010 the future of the Corn Exchange was again called into question.
There had been an earlier crisis in the 1960s with the threat of demolition and replacement by a ghastly shopping 'block' but this was averted when some genius who came up with the idea of putting a floor in the building to make it into two stories with shops occupying the ground floor.
The 2010 crisis was settled when Wetherspoons took over and restored the building very tastefully (IMHO); at the time, there were objections, of course, but there were no viable alternatives. In his lecture, I wondered what historian John Orbell would make of the occupation of the building by Wetherspoons and, in effect, converting it into a pub ....... he was delighted that new life had been breathed into this wonderful building.
Whenever we get visitors, I give them a guided tour of Bury and we end up at the Corn Exchange where they can sample a pint of freshly-brewed, perfectly-kept GK IPA (£1.65) or Abbott (£2.25) ..... pre-covid prices.
www.jdwetherspoon.com/pub-histories/england/suffolk/the-corn-exchange-bury-st-edmunds
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>> "From what bleak future was it saved
Thanks for your response, Haywain.
I'm surprised that any organisation would consider demolishing such an iconic building as the Corn Exchange. Nice one, Tim, for stepping in!
I only remember being in the building a few times while visiting my insurance broker, who occupied an office there.
I lived in Bury St Edmunds for around three years, way back in the 60s and thoroughly enjoyed the experience.
For a young lad there wasn't a great deal in the way of Saturday night entertainment, so myself and others would head off to the bright lights of Ipswich and Norwich! However I did enjoy the many watering holes in and around the villages of Ixworth and Horringer.
I see that Purdy's cafe, where I used to have a good breakfast on a Saturday ( just a few paces from W H Smiths) and the Everards Hotel opposite the Corn Exchange, are no longer there.
I remember taking a holiday job for a couple of weeks or so at GK. It was thirsty work helping to fill all manner of wooden barrels from pins upwards, but there was also a barrel on hand for the staff to take refreshment when required.
A particularly generous feature was a taproom on the opposite side of the road, for GK pensioners to enjoy a free pint of IPA whenever they fancied whetting their whistle. I bet that's long gone.
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I guess the Nutshell has gone forever. Hard to see social distancing working there,
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"I guess the Nutshell has gone forever."
I haven't been in that part of town for a few months, but I imagine that the Nutshell will survive because of what it is. I believe there is some sort of relationship with Greene King and I doubt that they'd allow it to die.
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>> So, I am not likely to see you in my local Wetherspoons?
you dont have one.
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No chance of bumping into you at the Nonsuch then on one of my trips 'darn sarth'?
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>> No chance of bumping into you at the Nonsuch then on one of my trips
>> 'darn sarth'?
Only if you are traveling there by bus
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Thank you CGN but my motorbike is very selective and a battery charger doesn’t cut it, oh no. It has to be a conditioner, as much recommended by HJ to various long term travellers. Mine’s a Ctek, wired into a remote plug so that it can be conditioned in situ. With electric start you can’t take chances these days.
Talking of town centres, I well remember from the seventies a large shop in the centre of Chelmsford. Their large sign outside always amused me for some reason - “Get it at Grippers”. Where would you see that these days?
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>> Thank you CGN but my motorbike is very selective and a battery charger doesn’t cut
>> it, oh no. It has to be a conditioner, as much recommended by HJ to
>> various long term travellers. Mine’s a Ctek, wired into a remote plug so that it
>> can be conditioned in situ. With electric start you can’t take chances these days.
>>
>>
My cheapo Chinese 125 comes with a kick start as well as electric. Not tried to use it yet and it must be forty years since I last kicked a bike over, I'll have to have a go one day.
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I have a Royal Enfield Bullet 500cc Classic with electronic fuel injection and ignition. It does have a kickstart, but doesn’t have a decompressor to lift the exhaust valve. Kicking it over is a pain as you have to take it past top dead centre before giving it some wellie. Failure to do so can result in a spectacular backfire with risk to ankle/leg. I happen to know this.
Also if the battery is flat then the electrics don’t work anyway, so kicking it over won’t help. The old lead acid battery was struggling so I put a new gel one on. An amazing difference, a touch of the starter and she’s away. I do occasionally kick it over for old times sake. Funnily enough in the days when I had another 500 single, a Velocette Venom, they had a reputation for being notoriously difficult to start. Mine was never a problem, it had a valve lifter and fired every time despite the creaky electrics. I was tempted to buy another recently, but common sense prevailed and I settled for the Enfield.
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>> I have a Royal Enfield Bullet 500cc Classic with electronic fuel injection and ignition.
I've a problem with old bikes trying to remember which ones have 'slack wire advance', so knowing which way to operate the advance/retard lever.
The last time I got kicked back was a Sunbeam S8. There's a Goldie I approach cautiously and treat with the utmost respect. Colleagues have a problem with a Raleigh moped. I like to let them build up a sweat trying to start it, by which time it's nicely primed before I can usually get it going with one prod of the pedals. There's a Rudge which the owner seems to be intimidated by (it is evil), he gives girly little prods at the kickstarter, presumably because he doesn't want it kicking back. There's a burly guy who can start it, I think it cowers when it sees him approaching and submits meakly.
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>> Failure to do so can result in a spectacular backfire
>> with risk to ankle/leg. I happen to know this.
When kick starting a motor bike, make sure that the pedal is taken all the way down to the bottom of its range of movement. Keep the pedal down with all your weight on it with a stiff, straight leg until any movement in the engine has petered out.
This will ensure that any kick back is met by maximum resistance and the full weight of your puny seven stone frame.
I have some previous in this field. My first bike was a 500cc single cylinder Triumph Tiger 90. I used to pinch/borrow my brother's Vincent Rapide 1000cc.
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I do remember a chap who back in the 70s had a Panther 600cc single combination. Quite a beast and he used to almost leap in the air in order to put his full weight on the kickstart. It regularly used to knock out its big ends, hardly surprising I suppose. In those days oil under the fingernails was par for the course.
I felt I didn't need the hassle of the quirks of elderly iron and surrounding myself with oily bits on a Saturday afternoon so opted for a relatively recent if traditional style bike in the form of the Enfield. Mind you, I could make an exception for Duncan's brothers Vincent.
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I'm considering an Enfield as my next bike. They get good reviews and reliability doesn't seem to be a problem.
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What is it with all these knockoffs......
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>> What is it with all these knockoffs......
>>
Cheap.
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If it is Royal Enfield you are referring to as knockoffs then I am not quite sure what you mean by that. The brand goes back 120 years and the Royal Enfield Bullet goes back to the original 1930’s design and has been pretty much in continuous production through into the 90s. The Indian factory was established in the 1950s to supply the increasing demand of the Indian army. It carried on after the Redditch factory closed in the late 60s and now has a number of factories and technical centres around the world.
The Bullet is now no more, the latest 500cc unit construction version that replaced the old 350 in the UK for emission reasons was withdrawn in 2020. These last versions are now appreciating in value I am pleased to say. They now have an updated range topped off by the highly regarded 650cc Interceptor. Globally Royal Enfield sells nearly a million bikes a year, more than Harley, KTM, BMW, Triumph and Ducati combined. Not bad for a cheap knockoff.
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>> If it is Royal Enfield you are referring to as knockoffs then I am not
>> quite sure what you mean by that. The brand goes back 120 years and the
>> Royal Enfield Bullet goes back to the original 1930’s design and has been pretty much
>> in continuous production through into the 90s. The Indian factory was established in the 1950s
>> to supply the increasing demand of the Indian army. It carried on after the Redditch
>> factory closed in the late 60s and now has a number of factories and technical
>> centres around the world.
I know. And it was. Sorry its NOT a Enfield as any greaser will tell you. Its a knock-off.
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>>
>>
>> I know. And it was. Sorry its NOT a Enfield as any greaser will tell
>> you. Its a knock-off.
>>
That is it's best point.
It doesn't leak oil and can get from London to Brighton without breaking down. One of the reasons Rockers were outnumbered by Mods at the bank holiday seafront rumbles was that many of the Rockers never made it that far because the old Brit iron was so unreliable.
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Thats only a recent phenomena with Indian built bikes. Even then a 73 honda makes them look rubbish. If you are going to have a proper old bike, you buy a proper old bike.
Anyway, only an old Norton or Triumph will do. The only indian to do with bikes should carry a Sioux head with feathers.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 9 Apr 21 at 03:19
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Oh I understand, its because it is made in India that you don't like it. Well that's fair enough, but that hardly makes it a knock off in the sense of a fake or copy of the real thing. We don't all have to like the same things, but it does seem that across the range they are rather popular at the moment, and certainly as a sports machine the Interceptor stands comparison with the significantly more expensive Triumphs.
I can remember with sufficient clarity back to the 60s and 70s not to get too misty eyed about motorcycles of that era, including Hondas, and cars as well for that matter. There is no doubt that the Japanese took quality, reliability and performance to a higher level, but I happen to have a soft spot for more traditional thumpers of the classic english style. There is still a good number of "greasers" running around on them in their dotage judging by the forums.
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I owned two Triumphs - both made in the UK, some of the guys on FB seem to think that Indian or Philippines made Triumphs aren't worthy. They don;t realise that Triumph is a global brand and only a small proportion are made in the UK anymore. My wife's Street Triple is probably not UK made - I need to look, maybe, makes no difference to me. My Guzzi is made in Italy and is full of Italian charm !
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Why "save the High St."?
If it is not providing what the public want, it deserves to die.
Last edited by: Roger. on Thu 15 Apr 21 at 19:52
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I don't know that it "deserves" to die as such, but certainly it wouldn't die if it was used.
Saving the High Street means significantly changing it. And that probably starts with council parking rules.
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I don't think we know what todays high street is for - we may each have a different opinion.
The concept of the 1960-80s urban centre for retail, entertainment, offices, banking etc is dead. Retail started to move out of town to either retail parks or shopping malls with easy access and free parking. This worked as car ownership grew.
Existing high streets often became centres for £ shops, charity shops, coffee shops, travel and estate agents. Only the prosperous with high footfall thrived.
Since about 2010 transition to online has compromised both the remaining "proper" high streets and out of town stores. The pace has increased rapidly due to covid.
The drag on swifter changes is the commercial property market - it is difficult for a major store to get out of an existing leases. If buildings become empty it is (a) difficult to relet at the same rental, and (b) the value of the property will fall to match the reduced rental income.
The prize will go to whoever creates the high street for the future - it will look nothing like what has gone before. It needs planners to be very creative - difficult when they have spent a generation reinforcing traditional planning and zoning rules.
- it may not be predominantly retail,
- it may embrace meeting, entertainment, education, eating, experiences.
- it may be a far more "mixed" experience.
- more smaller "centres" could evolve serving currently large soulless housing estates
- zoning retail separate from worklaces separate from housing may need to change
- centres need to embrace new work life patterns as 9-5 may not be the norm
- transport infrastructures will need to change
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>> Saving the High Street means significantly changing it. And that probably starts with council parking
>> rules.
Parking is a massive factor. Tesco 'normalised' flat free off street parking decades ago and gained a lead it has never lost. despite all supermarkets and out of town retail following.
If a plan was needed to kill town centres, chargeable parking and creating fear of penalties would be at the heart of it.
The "demand" argument is a specious one because there are some other large moving parts, not least sticky rents and business rates. Tesco used this argument to justify or excuse the rapid closure of bakers and butchers wherever they opened an edge of town store. It ignores the fact that even if 80% of customers continue to prefer the smaller shops, the loss of 20% of their trade wipes a much bigger percentage off the profit or can eliminate it altogether. Much the same effect comes from any kind of parking deterrence.
If councils looked to the health of the town first, the rest might follow but when they just look for ways to suck money out of what's there, they kill it.
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Don't councils just collect the rates from business and central government sets the rates as well?
I think a few towns tried free parking and then went back to charging not so much for the money but to control the amount of cars. I don't think councils collect that much money from parking charges.
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What's that as % of council income, that'll give a much better idea of how much money it is in real terms.
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Parking charges are but only a small part of why the high street is failing. As a retail proposition town centres are simply inefficient and do not match customer requirements.
City centres have evolved over hundreds of years and are compromised by existing roads, public areas, older building etc etc. Store layouts are sub-optimal and car parking a discordant jumble.
Grocery shopping is the largest expense for most housholds. Out of town have adjacent parking, products and services under one roof, economies of scale, and capacity for easy delivery of stock.
Larger less frequently purchased items - furniture, diy, kitchen appliances etc also fare better out of town where the range displayed is not constrained by space availability.
For most (not all) people price and convenience is a major issue - independent butchers, bakers, greengrocers are delightful but minority interest.
Most traditional town centres are dying or already dead. Changing the balance of business rates and a tax on out of town parking spaces through extra business rates may delay but not eliminate the need for radical change.
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We live in a rural idyl (!). Aldi hve just built a lovely new store on the outskirts of the next town. It takes me ten minutes to get there, no need to negotiate town streets, the car-park i well laid out to suit modern cars. The shop is shiny and new. The veg and fruit i nice. What's not to like.
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What's not to like in Aldi?
The lack of choice.
No fresh fish or meat counter
Mostly dubious own brands
The check outs
Second grade fruit and vegetables
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>> Dubious? In what sense?
The products themselves are mostly excellent.
I am though surprised that the big brands being aped are not doing as M&S have done over the caterpillar cake and looking to the Intellectual Property Court.
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Yes, I've no problem with their products. We do the bulk of our shopping in aldi and lidl.
Just wondered what was dubious about them.
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Dubious? In what sense?
Have you tried their tomato ketchup or instant coffee?
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>> Dubious? In what sense?
>>
>> Have you tried their tomato ketchup
Yes
or instant coffee?
>>
No
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"Have you tried their tomato ketchup
Yes"
And you bought more?
Really really don't buy the coffee
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>> And you bought more?
Yes, I have the reduced sugar/salt one
>> Really really don't buy the coffee
I don't buy coffee anyway.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 16 Apr 21 at 19:38
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Never mind Aldi brands, what the heck has happened to Kellogg's cornflakes? Had a bowl in the first time for ages last week, inedible rubbish. Emailed them as there was so obviously something wrong here, they apologised, sent vouchers, tried another box. They're the same.
Some internet browsing later and it turns out they've completely changed every element of a cornflake that makes it a Kellogg's cornflake, pretty much. Utterly vile now. Many many complaints online.
So actually, mayhap, Aldi cornflakes (if there is such a thing) is now on the try list. Can't be any worse.
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"Really really don't buy the coffee"
The label was designed to resemble Nescafé Gold Blend. I bought a jar once ..... and only once.
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>> No fresh fish or meat counter
There's a good choice of both fresh fish and fresh meat. No butcher or fishmonger counter but those are disappearing in the big supermarkets too.
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>> What's not to like in Aldi?
>> The lack of choice.
>> No fresh fish or meat counter
>> Mostly dubious own brands
>> The check outs
>> Second grade fruit and vegetables
Which? magazine's guide to "The Best Supermarkets to shop in-store".
First two paragraphs.
"Overall, Aldi is the UK's best in-store supermarket for 2021, according to our latest survey.
Value seems to have been the deciding factor this year, as the discounter was the only supermarket to achieve a five-star rating on this measure. In fact both Aldi and fellow discounter Lidl have outperformed three of the 'big four' supermarkets (Asda, Morrisons and Sainsbury's)".
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I think Aldi and Lidl suffer from a bit of an ill reputation they gained in their earlier days, now much less deserved, and/or a prejudice against "cheap" shops (or supermarket snobbery, same difference!). Bit like (for instance) Skoda in the car world really. I won't ever try Col Sanders products because I had an absolutely dire one when I was 18.
It's very hard for them to shake off.
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All the main chains have different pros and cons. I go to the one with a petrol station, or the one with the best coffee, or the one closest to me, or the one next to another shop that I want to go into etc, etc.
I don't know why people care so much about which supermarket other people use. Most of the time I don't even know which brand of supermarket I am using at any given moment.
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>> Parking charges are but only a small part ... town centres are simply inefficient and do not match customer requirements..................….
All of the above yes, and the time to preserve the town centres we loved has passed, there's no turning back the clock or reversing the trend. But where there are bustling town centres (and there aren't many) a managed transformation is better than general dereliction. The solution I suppose will differ from case to case but I can think of small towns that remain a destination for many, where small shops still prosper alongside new residential development and small business. It's true that they generally have what seems to me like an excess of restaurants, coffee shops (isofar as they have survived Covid) and estate agents but they are changing whilst somehow retaining a critical mass. To be fair they do tend to be in reasonably affluent areas where house prices are high.
Nevertheless I think there is a case the slanting planning towards towns. A lot of what has grown out of town has done so because it's cheaper and easier to use virgin land than brownfield, but if money and market forces are left untrammelled then the result will be that we simply and stupidly consume and concrete all the most accessible places, and in addition to losing our countryside we will at the same time have the wreckage of impoverished towns and cities and all their attendant problems to deal with.
The crooks currently in charge will have no reason to deal with this unless it just happens that their friends and future employers can make money faster by doing so, sad to say.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 16 Apr 21 at 19:38
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Save the High Street - Bromptonaut
