Non-motoring > Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: zippy	Replies: 44

Fri 12 Mar 21 11:52   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - zippy

Niece is at Uni, end of her first year. She's studying for a degree that will lead to a decent profession - not a whimsical course. She is looking to move in to private accommodation and needs a guarantor for the rent. My wealthy a*** of a brother refuses to guarantee the £4k rent, despite having a very good job, an almost mortgage free £800k house and £250k in the bank. She doesn't get the full student loan because of his earnings and has to work to live as he refuses to contribute (despite advertising on facebook that he has booked a £20k holiday to the Bahamas later this summer.) Says he managed through life with no qualifications and so should she! Refuses to discuss the matter. Can't chose family. Looks like I am going to have to be the guarantor. Rant over! Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 12 Mar 21 12:03   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - Lygonos

I'd give her the £4k assuming she's a good 'un. Of course I'm in the position to be able to do that, but I'd not want the stress of having me being a guarantor adversely affect her studies. I'd also put it on Facebook. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 12 Mar 21 12:48   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - R.P.

I'd give her the £4k assuming she's a good 'un. And me. I wouldn't do the FB thing personally though Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 12 Mar 21 12:24   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - Manatee

So he's never had any help from anybody? It would take a surgical procedure to separate me from £20,000 for a holiday, but one of my greatest joys has been being able to help my children in what they want to do with their lives. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 12 Mar 21 12:26   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - Zero

I have helped bankroll my niece through her first two years at Uni. Its been a tough first year for her tho in and out of student halls, lockdowns, course disruption. I wouldnt be a guarantor tho, but I would certainly socially shame her father. Last edited by: Zero on Fri 12 Mar 21 at 12:28 Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 12 Mar 21 12:43   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - Bromptonaut

There have been a lot of students in 20/21 who've been liable for rent under Shorthold Tenancies signed in 2020 but who cannot occupy. I'd guess that defaults, and therefore recourse to guarantees, will be a lot higher than (say) 2014/15 when I was guarantor for The Lad. While we hope that everything will be back to normal for the next academic year there are still risks that new variants may cause another lockdown. Risk to a guarantor will be higher than it was historically. Make clear your guarantee is limited to her share of the rent and there's no question of putting yourself in line for the debt of others for which she is technically jointly liable. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 12 Mar 21 12:39   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - sooty123

Seems an odd stance your brother has taken, especially since there's no money to pay unless it goes a bit wrong. What's the point in having the money if not help your own children? I guess it balances on how much 4k is to you, for some it's years of saving for others a bottle of wine. I guess it depends where you sit on that scale. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 12 Mar 21 12:54   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - Manatee

Guarantees are always problematic if things go wrong. I've dealt with loan guarantors and a common response is that they shouldn't have to pay because they wouldn't have signed if they thought it would go wrong. They seem to think it is some sort of reference, or at least pretend they do. Rent's more difficult, and you need to watch out with student accommodation. I was asked to stand as guarantor once for my daughter and when I read it, I would have been guaranteeing the rent for all four students sharing the house. Can't remember how we solved it now. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 12 Mar 21 13:03   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - cosec

I am guarantor for my eldest daughter at Leeds uni. Did not think twice about it. Their contract is clear that each student needs their own guarantor who is only liable for that portion of the rent. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 12 Mar 21 13:18   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - martin aston

I would do it without hesitation. If that's the only financial help she needs she is doing very well. I have blocked from memory how much support our daughter needed when she was a student. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 12 Mar 21 13:21   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - No FM2R

>>I would have been guaranteeing the rent for all four students..... That is more usual and certainly what I am encountering. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 12 Mar 21 13:25   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - No FM2R

I'd be very careful if I were you. I wouldn't do what your brother is doing, but that's his call. If my sister interfered between me and my daughter I would become irked. Whatever his reasons, he no doubt has some. I would become vengeful if someone interfered were it me. You might wreck things between her and her Father, never mind between her Father and you. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 12 Mar 21 14:03   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - martin aston

Good point FM. Maybe the brothers need some mediation. I believe there is an older lady in the Windsor area who may help? Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 12 Mar 21 14:22   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - Falkirk Bairn

My 3 sons all left University with zero debt. I paid everything in term time as long as they had a part-time job to pay their nights out and clothes. In the mid-June to mid- September they all had summer jobs which built up their bank balances - they lived for free during their holidays at home - warehousemen, postman, barman, summer placements etc. Leaving university debt free allowed them to get their first flat quite quickly. I paid their deposits and when they sold the flat I got the 10% of the flat back after 5-8 years when they bought a house. Better, if you are able, to give your kids a good start to life rather than see them struggle. IMHO hoarding your cash to leave it to them when they are in say their 50s or 60s is not the best - the 6 x grandchildren will see the house & other assets when we depart - their dad had their share when they were 17-22. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 12 Mar 21 14:41   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - legacylad

My mum helped me with the deposit for my own house when I was 21 ( my father had died). I’m so grateful...it was a dump in Bradford and DIY was a steep learning curve. After some unpleasantness with an ex LL, having lost half the house and half the surrender value of my small private pension, resulting in retaining a quarter value of the house, she helped me again. Monies were paid back in double quick time and I like to think I’ve repaid her kindness by taking her to Spain twice a year until recently ( friends got a free holiday in exchange for lengthy conversation with her and wheelchair duties). Much better to help folks financially when they need it rather than leaving them a bunch of money when you croak. They’ll only fritter it away on fancy wheels.... Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 12 Mar 21 15:49   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - henry k

I too supported both my two. I said to both " I want you to enjoy things so no work that detracts from that " Some finace was involved but it was not abused. Son replied that he was not aiming for a first as he did not want to be a swat. He was earning good money when still at school so I knew he was not skint. He earned good money during the long " holidays " so all was well. My daughter, six years at med school but in London got extra support. Two years of DIY on two rented flats ( in a good part of Notting Hill ) for a couple of years. She cleverly chose her elective and garnered £1000s from many organisations to pay for her elective in the Pacific. She was a lifeguard and Medical secretary to boost funds. I was happy to ferry things back and fro and move them many many times. The last support for my daughter was first an emergency prep of her flat for letting prior to returning to UNI. An out of the blue invite to a to an already funded Dphil. She was also teaching / coaching med students. Quite a few more car trips to help moves and also minor car servicing. We enjoyed those times and both of them used their contacts to enable us to also enjoy many events with them. I am more than happy to use my funds to help them rather than hoard it. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 12 Mar 21 18:22   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - BiggerBadderDave

"I too supported both my two." That's four people. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Sun 14 Mar 21 10:09   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - The Melting Snowman

>>They'll only fritter it away on fancy wheels.... I've seen that time and time again. Parents lived frugally, then when they died offspring inherit a nice chunk and either argue over it and/or blow it on extravagances such as new cars, fancy holidays etc. They are free to do what they like with it of course but my advice to more mature people is enjoy it yourself! Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 12 Mar 21 15:19   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - sooty123

IMHO hoarding your cash to leave it to them when they are in say their >> 50s or 60s is not the best - the 6 x grandchildren will see the >> house & other assets when we depart - their dad had their share when they >> were 17-22. >> That's a good point, I wonder how many people save up when times are harder with young children but then can't/won't switch to spend any or give any away as they get older, then end up as you say. I can think of a few going/gone that way. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 12 Mar 21 15:24   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - Lygonos

Aiming to leave nothing to HMRC via inheritance tax when I kick the can. Problem is knowing when that event will happen of course. Last edited by: Lygonos on Fri 12 Mar 21 at 15:24 Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 12 Mar 21 15:32   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - smokie

Likewise, but you also need to know whether/when you might need expensive care and how inflation might eat up your savings. Less of a problem if you have a "proper" pension rather than a pot you draw down on I suppose. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 12 Mar 21 21:29   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - Mapmaker

>> Aiming to leave nothing to HMRC via inheritance tax when I kick the can. >> >> Problem is knowing when that event will happen of course. >> People always fear they will live longer than they ever do. Friend who is a private client tax bod reckons she's pretty good at guessing how old people will be when they die. And can she make her clients give the money away whilst they're still active but hopefully more than seven years from death? Not very often. But she does bully them. They still all pay IHT that they didn't need to. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 13 Mar 21 00:48   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - Fullchat

Care home fees will wipe substantial savings out very quickly. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 13 Mar 21 08:36   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - Zero

>> Care home fees will wipe substantial savings out very quickly. Unless you have spent them all...... Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 13 Mar 21 09:49   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - sooty123

People always fear they will live longer than they ever do. Friend who is a >> private client tax bod reckons she's pretty good at guessing how old people will be >> when they die. And can she make her clients give the money away whilst they're >> still active but hopefully more than seven years from death? Not very often. But she >> does bully them. They still all pay IHT that they didn't need to. I'm sure it's pretty common, probably related to having to face the fact about dying. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 12 Mar 21 15:38   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - zippy

Re funding the kids, I agree with the sentiments here. Help them as much as possible - I haven't been on a foreign holiday (not even a city break) because I paid the kids rent whilst they were at uni. I also had to drive an unspeakable Vauxhall Cappuccino for a while to be able to afford it. Been on the phone to Brother and our parents today about this. He is intransigent. So mum and dad have said they will pay her rent for the next two years but will change their wills. It was 50% to my brother and 50% to me. Now it is going to be 40% to each of us and 5% to each of the grandchildren. Solicitors booked for Monday apparently. Mum is canny and says it will be payable out of the future value - so she gets 5% but has to refund the 2 x £4k to the other beneficiaries. Brother isn't happy. I am happy, especially knowing that she will be secure. Now need to get back to the day job. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 12 Mar 21 15:44   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - sooty123

Glad it got sorted. Inheritances can be funny things. Well they can turn people funny anyway. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 12 Mar 21 17:00   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - Lygonos

>>It was 50% to my brother and 50% to me. Now it is going to be 40% to each of us and 5% to each of the grandchildren I really hope you have 3 kids and your brother only has one. That would make me larf. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Sun 14 Mar 21 04:23   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - zippy

>> >>It was 50% to my brother and 50% to me. Now it is going to >> be 40% to each of us and 5% to each of the grandchildren >> >> I really hope you have 3 kids and your brother only has one. >> >> That would make me larf. >> It's almost worth having another one or two! :-) Last edited by: zippy on Sun 14 Mar 21 at 04:23 Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 12 Mar 21 20:29   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - Fullchat

"I also had to drive an unspeakable Vauxhall Cappuccino for a while to be able to afford it." The ultimate sacrifice! Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 12 Mar 21 16:37   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - bathtub tom

>> My 3 sons all left University with zero debt. >> I paid everything in term time as long as they had a part-time job to >> pay their nights out and clothes. >> In the mid-June to mid- September they all had summer jobs which built up their >> bank balances - they lived for free during their holidays at home - warehousemen, postman, >> barman, summer placements etc. Similar with my two, although we added an allowance for food and clothing. Eldest looked at the figures and complained "it wasn't enough to go out clubbing every night". They both left with student loan debt, which they regretted as they admitted they didn't need. They both realised how lucky they were when working and talking to other graduates who had no family support resulting in massive debts. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 13 Mar 21 10:04   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - sooty123

IMHO hoarding your cash to leave it to them when they are in say their >> 50s or 60s is not the best - the 6 x grandchildren will see the >> house & other assets when we depart - their dad had their share when they >> were 17-22. >> Reading that again reminds me of a friend of the family, (I think I might have mentioned it before) he retired from a well paid job with a really good public sector pension, mortgage long since paid off. No need to do a days work again etc. Anyway he started working 3 days a week which rapidly turned into 6 sometimes 7 days a week, as he figured he could save all of his work pension this. Then he got his wife a part time job so they could save even more. They were left a big lump sum (6 figures) from a friend, all that got chucked into savings. Anyway health issues caught up with them and their golden years were tbh wasted. Now they've stocked piled lots of cash to give to HMRC. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 13 Mar 21 10:18   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - smokie

I get that some people HAVE to work after their first "retirement" from their main job and I also get the some people choose to work (often p/t) to give them a reason to get up, and maybe pay for some "extras" but I don't get doing it just for the money if you really don't need it. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 13 Mar 21 10:38   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - sooty123

>> I get that some people HAVE to work after their first "retirement" from their main >> job and I also get the some people choose to work (often p/t) to give >> them a reason to get up, and maybe pay for some "extras" but I don't >> get doing it just for the money if you really don't need it. >> In the case I mentioned I think they just got hooked on saving and it became such a habit it was very hard to break. I bet there's loads out there like that, my grandparents were like that. A coach trip once year their only holiday, clothes from the charity shops etc died with plenty in savings. Just couldn't bring themselves to spend it. Last edited by: sooty123 on Sat 13 Mar 21 at 10:38 Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 13 Mar 21 11:32   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - Terry

Part of the reason why retirees save when they probably don't need to is that fear of reaching later years and running out of money far exceeds the pleasure gained through spending money in the early years of retirement. The other reaason is habit. Most people develop expenditure habits and expectations through their life dictated by financial circumstances. The saving for a rainy day "gene" is part of that. This is not the case for all of us - imagine you are Mr Average income winning £1m on the lottery - you decide to treat yourself to a new car. Do you spend £20-30k - or £100k+ on something fancy to park outside your 3 bed semi? Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 13 Mar 21 12:08   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - smokie

Ah ...a "what would you do if you won the lottery"... :-). Maybe it should be a new thread but In terms of cars, I'd like a big gas guzzling 5.0 convertible something for a summer season but then I'd chop it in for a top of the range Polestar or Tesla. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 13 Mar 21 12:13   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - sooty123

>> Part of the reason why retirees save when they probably don't need to is that The other reaason is habit. Most people develop expenditure habits and expectations through their life >> dictated by financial circumstances. The saving for a rainy day "gene" is part of that. I think that's a big part of it. That and perhaps not really being comfortable spending money, a mentality of only rich people buy xyz and they never think they are in that group regardless of how much money they have. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 14 Mar 21 08:22   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - legacylad

I’ve retired friends with considerable assets...they both own two rental properties bringing in lots of money. They’ve no interest in cars, no children, don’t like expensive foreign trips. Decent private pensions, state pension, no debts. There’ll be no IHT payable as one couple are leaving it all to charity, like myself. But I hope to have spent most of mine. The other couple are leaving it all to one surviving relative. She’ll become a millionaire overnight if she’s still on top, even after IHT has been paid. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 14 Mar 21 08:53   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - Lygonos

>> one couple are leaving it all to charity, like myself My mother is doing the same. In Scotland you can't legally remove a child's right to inherit with a will so if myself or my siblings wanted to, we could claim our slice of the pie. Prevents weaponising of wills by vindictive parents. If you really don't want a surviving child to get a payout you can always give it away while you're alive I guess. ps. My mother isn't being vindictive - she just thinks the money would be more help to the PDSA than her reasonably well off offspring. Last edited by: Lygonos on Sun 14 Mar 21 at 08:56 Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 14 Mar 21 09:04   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - sooty123

I think there's cases in england that have gone to court about being cut out of a will. One that I remember, a mother objected to her daughters choice of husband, all the cash went to the rspca. Spent years in courts but eventually she got the money and the rspca got nowt iirc. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 14 Mar 21 10:17   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - Bromptonaut

>> I think there's cases in England that have gone to court about being cut out >> of a will. There are at least two routes of challenge. The first is 'reasonable provision': www.aprilking.co.uk/contesting-a-will/reasonable-financial-provision/ The second is to challenge whether the testator had the mental capacity to make a will: www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices/content/100844 Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 14 Mar 21 10:54   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - sooty123

I don't remember the ins and outs of why or how it was challenged, not really my thing. But I think the rspca sent a fair few quid on legal fees appealing it through the courts though. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 14 Mar 21 09:22   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - legacylad

>> ps. My mother isn't being vindictive - she just thinks the money would be more >> help to the PDSA than her reasonably well off offspring. >> Lygonos For many years I’ve supported SPANA and had collection boxes for Hearing Dogs for Deaf People in my shops. At a local level I support animal charities staffed primarily by volunteers..the folks who operate from home premises. Last edited by: legacylad on Sun 14 Mar 21 at 09:23 Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 14 Mar 21 04:21   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - zippy

>> I'd be very careful if I were you. They had a bad enough relationship before she went away. Since, going she has refused to talk to him all this year for refusing to help one iota, despite him having more than enough resources to do so. She does not go home to them at end of term. As to me & him, we are very different people and save for our parents have absolutely nothing in common. We speak perhaps once a year if unlucky. Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 14 Mar 21 at 04:25 Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 12 Mar 21 17:51   Student Accommodation Choices / Guarantees - Mapmaker

As has been said elsewhere, just be sure you're not guaranteeing the rent of all her housemates. You quite likely will be. I'd quite likely rather give her the cash than end up guaranteeing her housemates. Same point on damage. There will (likely) be joint and several liability amongst the guarantors when it comes to any damage. So the landlord will go for just one of the guarantors - the wealthiest - and get it all from him. Reply to this message | Report message