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Ongoing debate.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 24 Mar 21 at 12:16
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Caught a snippet today about the Spanish Gov, saying that foreign tourists aren't going to be allowed in until 70% of Spain's population is vaccinated.
I wonder how long that rule will last as the summer gets nearer and nearer?
If they do stick to it, I would imagine it'll be 2022 before tourism is allowed.
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I hope to return to Spain early October. I’m not holding my breath, just grateful that here in the uk our vaccination programme is so much more advanced.
Plenty to see and do in the U.K.....Wales Coast Path by summer I hope.
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Just (half)heard a local radio news report that, I think, claimed the first injection of the Pfizer vaccine reduced hospital admissions by 80%, compared to the AZ that reduced admissions by 90%.
That's one in the eye for the EU and as for the French population not wanting the AZ, as far as I'm concerned, they can shove it up their arris.
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>> That's one in the eye for the EU and as for the French population not
>> wanting the AZ, as far as I'm concerned, they can shove it up their arris.
A fairly common means of delivering drugs in France......
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 22 Feb 21 at 12:25
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www.thetimes.co.uk/article/germans-are-turning-down-oxford-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-hpvh6rh6r
A similar story being run in the Times.
First they wanted the vaccine, now they've got it hardly anyone wants it. You couldn't make it up.
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"A fairly common means of delivering drugs in France......"
A fairly common means of delivering speech too.
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Quite remarkable given that the EU as a whole decided to group buy, and what Vaccines to have, and now nations are quibbling about picking and choosing what vaccines they want, buying them outside the union, throwing the whole thing into chaos.
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>>, as far as I'm concerned, they can shove it up their arris.
I take your point and sympathise, but unfortunately we're not back to whatever passes for normal until everybody is vaccinated.
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The Spanish quote above was in late January, that's not to say anything has changed
tinyurl.com/ycvupjt2
EDIT this refers to Sooty's post way up which mentioned that the Spanish Gov, said that foreign tourists aren't going to be allowed in until 70% of Spain's population is vaccinated."
Last edited by: smokie on Mon 22 Feb 21 at 18:22
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Good article. She seems quite honest.
I liked the line " I don't really understand politics.... "
Who does? (That's who not WHO!)
She certainly puts what she sees as political questions at arms length.
She even says "I wouldn't believe everything you read in The Guardian, there's very little that they've written that is correct. "
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That's the second reference to the fact that the UK has had to indemnify the vaccine manufacturers against claims arising from its use (and implicitly that the EU has escaped the latter).
I read a recent article (in the Guardian as it happens, but written by a French journalist) which claimed that the UK was paying a significant premium per dose, and had had to indemnify the manufacturers, as a result of being quick out of the traps in comparison with the EU.
Clearly in the case of the AstraZeneca contract (which had been published before either of these reports), the EU has comprehensively indemnified AZ for just about anything you could think of (and I expect the UK has as well). I doubt arrangements with other suppliers are much different for either party.
As far as price is concerned, AIUI AZ have offered the vaccine universally on a "not-for-profit" basis, and the EU contract seems to reflect this (and apply elements of "open-book" accounting to ensure it). My suspicion would be that the UK contract has similar provisions (and if it really is on a "not-for-profit" basis, it wouldn't be easy to hide differential pricing).
Whatever, at a rumoured cost per dose of around £2, even a 50% premium for the UK would represent a drop in the ocean alongside other Covid costs, and might well be offset by savings made by a faster/earlier roll-out anyway.
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> Whatever, at a rumoured cost per dose of around £2, even a 50% premium for
>> the UK would represent a drop in the ocean alongside other Covid costs, and might
>> well be offset by savings made by a faster/earlier roll-out anyway.
AZ have said publicly several times that the cost is between £2-3, the difference any country or block could buy it in, as you say is neither here nor there really.
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"She even says "I wouldn't believe everything you read in The Guardian, there's very little that they've written that is correct."
I've been trying to get this over to Brompt for years .......... oh well, he might learn eventually.
I read this piece a couple of weeks ago and, looking back, assumed it had been linked from here. It must have been linked from a comment in the Telegraph; I doubt that it would have been from the Daily Mail or the Grauniad.
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>>
>> I read this piece a couple of weeks ago and, looking back, assumed it had
>> been linked from here. It must have been linked from a comment in the Telegraph;
>> I doubt that it would have been from the Daily Mail or the Grauniad.
Yes it was here. I linked it a couple of weeks ago.
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"Yes it was here. I linked it a couple of weeks ago."
Ah, thank you; more confirmation (as if it were needed) that I'm not going mad ;-)
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>> She even says "I wouldn't believe everything you read in The Guardian, there's very little
>> that they've written that is correct. "
The Guardian have been at the forefront of covering the extent to which Boris's government has been giving jobs to mates. Whether Kate Bingham, husband of MP Jesse Norman, is part of that may be open to question. That it's happening is surely beyond question.
It was that point been questioned that resulted in 'I wouldn't believe' quote. Possibly, hers is an appointment purely on merit. For now, in this debate and given the results, I'll accept that.
Form the other point of view though seeing her reply as in the style of Miss Rice-Davis would not be out of place.
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Just noticed that Kate Bingham is the daughter of Tom Bingham, a man hugely admired in legal/judicial circles:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Bingham,_Baron_Bingham_of_Cornhill
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>>She even says "I wouldn't believe everything you read in The Guardian, there's very little that they've written that is correct. "
And I am sure she is quite accurate that the Guardian contains a lot of misleading rubbish.
The problem is, what's the alternative? Most, probably all, of the newspapers are no better. For each subject one more or less needs to read them all and make a judgement, while being very wary of confirmation bias.
It's irritating.
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>> >>She even says "I wouldn't believe everything you read in The Guardian, there's very little
>> that they've written that is correct. "
>>
>> And I am sure she is quite accurate that the Guardian contains a lot of
>> misleading rubbish.
I'm in no doubt about that. And like all the papers they've fewer and fewer specialist correspondents. All too often I read an article about stuff I know about and end up sucking my teeth and mentally composing a correction.
>> The problem is, what's the alternative? Most, probably all, of the newspapers are no better.
>> For each subject one more or less needs to read them all and make a
>> judgement, while being very wary of confirmation bias.
One of my A Level teachers told of a factory worker who read The Times and The Morning Star on the grounds that the truth would be somewhere in between.
Where I can (Parliament, Court Judgements, Academic Papers etc) I ferret for a source document but a lot of stuff escapes such research.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 22 Feb 21 at 21:02
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Great link, thank you Sooty.
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The rates have fallen markedly in the latest weekly stats. Down every day and 34% in the week. If it’s due, as I suspect, to the move to self-booking, then perhaps they should open bookings to a wider range of people. This would ensure that vaccinations were used rather than sitting in stock.
Those who can’t or won’t self book can still wait to be contacted by the surgeries.
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This would ensure that
>> vaccinations were used rather than sitting in stock.
>> Those who can’t or won’t self book can still wait to be contacted by the
>> surgeries.
I don't think there's an issue with unused vaccines?
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Sooty I am basing this on the assertion by suppliers that there are ample supplies. If supplies are ample, vaccinators are available but rates are falling then I think it’s reasonable to assume there is stock yet to be used?
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Stock may be held back to ensure people get their 12 week second jab.
Additionally roll out of the vaccine may as much to do with the logistics of staffing, venue capacity, administration in booking appointment times, and medical staff.
A free for all, turn up when you want, is a recipe for queueing and lack of social distancing.
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There are still new large sites being opened.
TV coverage today. Reading vaccine site opens at Madejski Stadium
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-56155755
3K jabs a day.
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>> Sooty I am basing this on the assertion by suppliers that there are ample supplies.
>> If supplies are ample, vaccinators are available but rates are falling then I think it’s
>> reasonable to assume there is stock yet to be used?
>>
I think it all depends on your/our understanding of the word 'ample'. The system can deliver 500k a day we know that much.
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I'd appreciate knowing if any of you have any interest in what's happening in Chile. I don't want to be boring you with stuff you don't care about.
Anyway, for the moment, here they are up to 15% or thereabouts. They have now suspended general population vaccinations so for the moment under 65s will have to wait. Instead they are now targetting teachers by age. It is their plan that by the end of next week all teachers will have been vaccinated.
Presumably this is preliminary to the start of term. In a normal year this would be around 01/03. MinEd have already stated that the return to school will be voluntary and students can elect remote learning if they wish.
It'll make my life easier if that continues since I have no intention of being within 8,000 miles of here and #2 daughter is still at school.
As an aside people here are issued a vaccination certificate tied to their ID card.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 22 Feb 21 at 17:57
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A friends' daughter was on a Zoom call with us at the weekend and she was saying that the mix of remote and classroom learning is a real strain on resources.
I'm quite interested in Chile but wait to see if any others are before going too mad on posting... I'm also interested in what my mate in Germany was telling me and how stuff differs - in particular the spin over the vaccine and the UK. I need to catch up with him soon...
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>>before going too mad on posting..
Don't misunderstand, I have no intention of writing more about Chile. I was just wondering if I should write less.
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>> >>before going too mad on posting..
>>
>> Don't misunderstand, I have no intention of writing more about Chile. I was just wondering
>> if I should write less.
Well as you haven bored me s***less about it yet. I guess you have it about right.
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>> I'd appreciate knowing if any of you have any interest in what's happening in Chile.
>> I don't want to be boring you with stuff you don't care about.
>>l
I'm always interested in what's going on around the world.
>> It'll make my life easier if that continues since I have no intention of being
>> within 8,000 miles of here and #2 daughter is still at school.
You leaving Chile?
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>>
>> You leaving Chile?
I'll start a just giving page to keep him there, wont be cheap mind.
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>> You leaving Chile?
My Mother has Alzheimer's, my Father has cancer. I should have been there a year ago. I need to get back, with the girls, to work out what I then need to do and where I need to do it.
#1 daughter is heading towards the Navy and #2 towards the Police. Next steps need to occur.
Where will I end up? I don't know. But I need some months in the UK. I am not selling up here.
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#1 daughter is heading towards the Navy and #2 towards the Police. Next steps need
>> to occur.
Based in the UK, I assume?
>> Where will I end up? I don't know. But I need some months in the
>> UK. I am not selling up here.
>>
Welcome back (well when you actually get here)
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>>Based in the UK, I assume?
Yes, RN & UK Police.
>>Welcome back (well when you actually get here)
Thank you, maybe we'll get a chance for a beer.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 22 Feb 21 at 19:25
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HAVE YOU HAD THE JAB - URGENT NOTICE !
This happened yesterday and is important information for our age group.
A friend had his 2nd dose of the vaccine at the vaccination centre, after which he began to have blurred vision on the way home.
When he got home, he called the vaccination centre for advice and to ask if he should go see a doctor, or be hospitalised.
He was asked to go back to the vaccination centre immediately as he had left his glasses behind.
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>>
>> He was asked to go back to the vaccination centre immediately as he had left
>> his glasses behind.
>>
I just told that to Miss Z and she said that it sounds like a normal day on the geri's ward :-)
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...you can have a bit of fun playing "spot/name the prison" using the interactive map at:
coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/interactive-map
On zooming in, often as not, the distinct "hot spots" that stand out from surrounding MSOAs will have a prison located within that MSOA.
Patently they have quite a problem within the prison service, with a form of lockdown that isn't managing to reduce infections.
(As you were; the options for new forms of entertainment have become quite limited).
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Vaccination rates have been dropping off, now seems a sustained drop. Only 192k yesterday vs 275k/392k on previous Tuesdays.
tinyurl.com/yy5l695l
could be due to supply issues or doses being held back for the coming wave of second doses, but on a quick trawl through the news I didn't see this being asked/answered directly.
Anyone else heard a explanation from the gov?
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I assume its the known drop in supply from the planned increase in production.
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Mrs B had hers today. Pfizer vaccine. Very efficient at the vaccination hub at Kings Heath. Only complaint was parking Marshalls treating her as though she was 90.
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We had ours this morning. Slightly odd setup that seemed a strange way of doing it to me, but of course pleased we had it.
We both got the card, but no mention of a date for a second appountment. I assume that's normal?
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My card had the 2nd jab date written on it.
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When we made put apt through the website we also had to make our 2nd date.
EDIT for better clarity (and accuracy!! )
=
When we made our appointment through the website we also had to make our 2nd date.
Last edited by: smokie on Wed 24 Feb 21 at 08:47
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There was no option to make a second date on the site linked in the text from the surgery. I guess we just wait for another text at some point then.
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>> There was no option to make a second date on the site linked in the
>> text from the surgery. I guess we just wait for another text at some point
>> then.
Same when I had mine four weeks ago. Several others I know who have had theirs more recently, are already aware of their second appointment.
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I got my first and second jab dates at the same time via a text message.
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I have a blank line next to the second date on my card......Perhaps there is something on my medical record they are not telling me?
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I just pulled up the link again, even though it's now in the past. NOW it says "your practise will contact you again nearer the time" for the second appointment.
Perhaps it always said that and I was too stupid to see it.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Wed 24 Feb 21 at 08:43
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>> it says "your practise will contact you again nearer the time"
>>
I hope it doesn't say that.
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>> >> it says "your practise will contact you again nearer the time"
>> >>
>>
>> I hope it doesn't say that.
>>
Why is that an issue?
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>> Why is that an issue?
>>
Duncan is in pedant mode again.
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Depends in which context you put 'The time' :S
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I blame autocorrect. Or no sleep whatsoever and distinctly under the weather, whichever you prefer.
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For the avoidance of doubt, Practice is the noun and Practise is the verb.
So doctors work in a practice, but they practise medicine
It's the same for Licence and License.
You have a driving Licence, so you are licensed to drive.
American usage is to use practise and license for both.
But who would want us to think they were American.
Deputy assistant pedant
8o)
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I don't usually get involved in grammatical discussions but I'm sure when I was a kid I used to do piano practice.
I.E. I think practice can be noun and verb whereas practise is verb only.
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In "piano [playing] practice", practice is a noun and piano is an adjective would be my parsing, but I was always rubbish at it.
On the other hand, you could "practise [playing] the piano" in which practise would be a verb and piano would be a noun
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I was no good either. It's something I intend trying again before I croak, but not playing scales and Greensleeves, I want to play some decent boogie or blues keyboards - for my own benefit - no intention of any public performances!!
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The difference between device and devise is obvious.
The difference between licence and license is the same. As is practice and practise.
Just choose an 's' or a 'c' using device/devise as a guide.
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Just had my jab.
As I arrived a nurse was standing at the door and directed me straight in so I never had to even break stride. Didn't even sit down while the needle went in and then walked straight back out again. Two minutes tops, all very efficient.
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Mine wasn't quite so quick but was really efficient. We were out 2 minutes before we were due in!!
I suppose they wouldn't have managed the volumes had they not been like that.
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Crikey.
We had the same 9:30 appointment, so went through the whole process together. Turned up at 9:15. Queued. At the door, a nice man asked us all the questions about having a temperature or anything. Answered correctly, so stayed in the queue.
Got to a desk with a nice lady who asked our names and addresses, nothing else. After a long time finding us on screen, she carefully wrote down some numbers on a sticky label and we attached them to ourselves. Queued.
Nice nurse took us into a bay. A young lad then asked for the numbers on the label, which he then typed in. Then asked Mrs C for name, address, ethnicity, emergency phone number and whether she gave permission for emails, and took email address. Nurse did jab, all of ten seconds. Then whole process repeated for me, taking the same details.
Told if we were driving then insurance would be invalid if we didn't wait another fifteen minutes, so we hung about.
Left at ten am, so 45 minutes from turning up to leaving.
All very pleasant and so on, but it didn't seem very streamlined somehow. But of course we are grateful to them.
We both felt a bit yukky about twelve hours later, pretty yukky overnight, quite yukky the next day, back to a bit yukky last night overnight, and now mostly ok today, so 48 hours, assuming it doesn't go downhill again. Nothing serious though.
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I'm lucky as Fishguard is a very rural place so you rarely have to queue at the very efficient and well staffed health centre. In nearby Haverfordwest however people say they had to queue for over half an hour before they were seen.
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Marlow was fairly labour intensive! The car park people handed us to some at the top of the entrance path who handed us to some on the door who handed us to the indoor team with the computer. Then to the waiting area then the jab. Each time out names were checked off on the clipboard and temperature was taken at stage 3, as we entered the building.
I'm pretty sure there are many volunteers at many of the centres. Our jabber said he was a pharmacist and had volunteered, and was doing about 10 an hour in a 12 hour day.
Last edited by: smokie on Thu 25 Feb 21 at 16:29
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>> I don't usually get involved in grammatical discussions but I'm sure when I was a
>> kid I used to do piano practice.
Hopefully you didn't mistaken tinkling on the ivories as something else?
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>>www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56202645
Oh I really, really hope that some anti-vaxxers wanted to go on holiday to Greece this year.
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Just booked both mine, via NHS website Fri coming and Friday 21-05-21. The website still says you need to be over 64 but I was given a tip off from my Sister who's involved in managing the system that they're now accepting bookings from 60-63 year olds.
Could have gone as soon as Tuesday but better on a non-working day.
Not had any communication beforehand. If they've got ahead of themselves then maybe that's why numbers are down.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 28 Feb 21 at 15:00
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Not much social distancing on the Sandbanks peninsula (Poole) yesterday. It was as crowded as in high Summer, all parking taken and the few retail outlets dense with closely packed customers. We got caught in a long one-way circular queue behind a police car, whose crew did not intervene.
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I think as the nicer weather is getting closer you'll see it more and more. Pretty low risk outside from what I've read. Similarly we were at the park yesterday, packed lots of people out and about, car park was full people were just making their own spaces on the grass. Very warm in the sun especially for late February.
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They were parking on every bit of verge and pavement at Tring reservoirs yesterday, reducing the road to one way traffic and causing chaos. I hope this stops when COVID disappears. We've lived here nearly 30 years and it's never been like this until lockdown started last year.
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You need to move to somewhere less popular ;)
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Second jab booked for Thursday the 4th.
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Just had my 2nd jab.
Definitely asked if I had had any other vaccine in the last seven days plus I still had to sit for fifteen minutes, maybe it's a P-B thing..
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>>Pretty low risk outside from what I've read.
Reports that the immense crowds on Bournemouth beach in the summer (2020) had no effect whatsoever on the rate of the virus.
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>> Reports that the immense crowds on Bournemouth beach in the summer (2020) had no effect whatsoever on the rate of the virus.
Likely to be true:
1. There were generally gaps between family groups (not visible when pics taken from ground level)
2. Congregating indoors is much better for virus transmission (always a breeze at the beach)
3. And most importantly in summer 2020 the actual case numbers of CV19 had fallen off a cliff thanks to lockdown 1.
Due to 3. If everyone had been rolling around naked it would have only led to a small number of cases.
Compare this with the tediously obvious rise through November/December followed by a ski jump after Xmas. WTF were they thinking about planning a 5 day free-for-all at Xmas.
It's not biology: it's maths - and pretty simple maths at that.
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Talking of the Christmas free for all...I flew home from Spain 20/12. Arrived in the evening and a friend kindly brought fish & chips to my place. Another neighbour had left a food parcel on my doorstep, and during my 10 day isolation I didn’t so much as venture past the end of my drive.
Talk about goody two shoes.
No phone calls or visitors to check up on me..I could have murdered a few pints with a meal at my local pub, then the day my isolation finished coincided with the start of lockdown.
One reason that illegal parties and large group gatherings really annoy me...some folks really are taking the P***.
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Compare this with the tediously obvious rise through November/December followed by a ski jump after
>> Xmas. WTF were they thinking about planning a 5 day free-for-all at Xmas.
>>
That people were going to (and did) visit family and friends over Christmas regardless of what the government said.
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>> >>Pretty low risk outside from what I've read.
>>
>> Reports that the immense crowds on Bournemouth beach in the summer (2020) had no effect
>> whatsoever on the rate of the virus.
How can anyone possibly know that?
A possible explanation is obvious. Most of them weren't from Bournemouth. In any case people on beaches don't all rub up against each other, quite the opposite. The etiquette of beaches is not to plonk one's towel down right next to a stranger, but to do it (say) a couple of yards away - coincidentally trying very hard to remain socially distant.
It's possible of course that it would have made made little difference whether the above speculations are true or not. With hindsight it seems clear that seasonality makes a big difference to the spread. I think we'll see the same this summer if it arrives, and the vaccine will probably get the credit but in this respect it seems similar to 'flu, which affects hundreds of thousands every winter and largely disappears in summer.
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Yeah that's one I was thinking of, I think there was some study or other.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 2 Mar 21 at 11:06
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www.itv.com/news/2021-02-17/no-covid-19-outbreaks-have-been-linked-to-crowded-beaches-mps-told
This is the study...
And I'm very much looking forward to my vaccination when my age catches up with the roll-out.
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>> www.itv.com/news/2021-02-17/no-covid-19-outbreaks-have-been-linked-to-crowded-beaches-mps-told
>>
>> This is the study...
I think calling it a "study" is stretching a point. That said, I can believe that sitting 2 metres from someone else on a beach is pretty safe. I probably don't think the same about a group of people queueing at a beach cafe/kiosk or similar.
Also people seem not to have been able to distinguish between "go out" and "don't go out". Consequently I cannot imagine them being able to cope with the difference between "you can go to the beach" and "you mustn't go anywhere else".
In retrospect it may seem likely that a beach is particularly dangerous place, but presumably we don't expect the Government to have known that or taken that risk beforehand?
Let's be honest the Government is only trying to make rules because the Daily Mail demands to have something it can ridicule and people are not able to make up their own minds about what they should or shouldn't do.
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I don't think you'll find anything new in here, but it is quite a good summary of the vaccination scenario in the UK & EU.
www.bbc.com/news/explainers-52380823
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What an enormous, massive, selfish fud this woman is - she really should know better:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-56262712
Plus whoever gave it should be given the shaft.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Wed 3 Mar 21 at 17:41
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Aside from the illegality, hypocrisy and immorality, how about the mind-boggling stupidity of putting it on Facebook? How did she see that working out? Did she think she would impress people?
>> whoever gave it should be given the shaft.
I am sure they will be, and I am sure they can see the train coming down the line. That'll make her even mo0re popular.
I hoper they don't wuss it and that they absolutely nail her to a wall.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 3 Mar 21 at 17:52
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That's if it's true of course. In my limited experience of the site not everytbing people say or claim on Facebook is actually true
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Just had a phone call form the NHS vaccination program.
Just a few questions
Did you get a lett from the NHS advising you about vaccinations?
Did you have the vaccination?
And the killer question
Why did you choose to have the vaccination?
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Can you even get a jab privately in the UK? Her age isn't mentioned but she didn't look as if she'd have to wait long.
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"Can you even get a jab privately in the UK?"
The implication in the article is that, if she did receive the jab privately, it might have been a vaccine that is not authorised for use in UK, and purchased "from outside the legitimate NHS supply route". It might even not have been a genuine Covid vaccine at all.
The woman is a fool many times over.
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US reckons they will have enough vaccine by end of May to vaccinate the whole adult population.
That's not so sale all will be vaccinated as there are hoards of anti-vaxxers in every state.
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My old mum had her 2nd jab today. Am I correct in thinking that it will be fully effective in 3 weeks time ?
Asking because I’d like to get her fortnightly cleaners back ! Saves me some time, although I don’t begrudge it as I visit most days, but the conversation with two cleaners does her the world of good...I’ve told her to distribute her disability allowance in the local economy.
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If there truly is a God then these two stories will be connected.
www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-56270243
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Labour suspends Oxford councillor for getting jab 'privately
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-56262712
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See above - Lygonos Wed 3 Mar 21 17:40
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We're all equal, it's just that i'm more equal than you ..
"Aside from the illegality, hypocrisy and immorality, how about the mind-boggling stupidity"
What else would you expect from a politician ?
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Got my first jab this morning (Sinovac / Coronavac) with a date of 01/04 for the second.
As I was leaving they said "no coffee or alcohol for 24 hours".
The b******s. Nobody told me that bit.
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>As I was leaving they said "no coffee or alcohol for 24 hours".
I think you misheard them.
For the Sinovac it's no coffee or alcohol between doses. So, in your case it will be 24 days.
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I'm thinking rude thoughts about you.
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No rude thoughts for 24 days either - though if you're unlucky with the side effects, it may be permanent.
(I though that, after having the Chinese vaccine, you wanted another one after an hour)
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I was expecting the call/letter/text from somebody to tell me to go and be injected to be at least another couple of weeks away, but this afternoon, got a text to log on and I'm being jabbed tomorrow afternoon.
I know of a few people who have felt quite poorly after the AZ dose.... Luckily I have two days of weekend to recover.
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>>
>>
>> I know of a few people who have felt quite poorly after the AZ dose....
>> Luckily I have two days of weekend to recover.
>>
Our local health centre is giving the AZ vaccine and no one I know has had any after effects, and that's knowing quite a few customers who come in the shop where the whole business is obviously a regular talking point.
Even Mrs O'Reliant who tends to suffer from everything going had no reaction (We considered moving to Ireland a few years ago, but the regularity of her surgery visits would have bankrupted us).
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I had the AZ three weeks ago. I felt a bit hungover about 24 hours later and couldn't face dinner. Anyway it might have been coincidence.
I did stop drinking for 2 days before and 10 days after the jab.
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I would say I had a reaction, rather than a side effect. I just felt a bit flu-ey and headachy the following day (nearly 24 hours later, too). I put up with it until tea time then took a paracetamol and felt better - I should just have taken one first thing.
Advice, have the paracetamol handy.
Last edited by: Manatee on Thu 4 Mar 21 at 21:37
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Yes. SWMBO has told me to take one even before I get the jab.
She had her jab a couple of weeks back and suffered a minor reaction for about 6 - 24 hours afterwards but felt a lot better with some painkillers.
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I had a reaction but it was mild.
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I/we had our second jab this morning. No reaction.
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I had the Russian vaccine and had the shot on Monday. I can assure you that it appears to be completely safe with иo side effects whatsoeveя, and so far I feelshκι χoρoshό я чувствую себя немного странно и я думаю, что вытащил ослиные уши.
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Kind of difficult to understand the EU's excitement about vaccine exports...
ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-travel-eu/coronavirus-response/safe-covid-19-vaccines-europeans_en
Bought -> 2.6bn
Delivered -> 51.5m
Administered -> 29.2m
It would appear that their issue is administering the jabs.
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>> Kind of difficult to understand the EU's excitement about vaccine exports...
>>
>> ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-travel-eu/coronavirus-response/safe-covid-19-vaccines-europeans_en
>>
>> Bought -> 2.6bn
>> Delivered -> 51.5m
>> Administered -> 29.2m
>>
>> It would appear that their issue is administering the jabs.
Worse give that they have gone out of their way to diss the AZ virus to the extent that people in the EU wont take it, and now they want to ban the export of stuff they dont want.
Madness.
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I haven't been following the UK Vaccination process, so if this is old news, sorry. Better safe than sorry though, I thought.
Book or manage your coronavirus vaccination
"Who can use this service
You can only use this service if any of the following apply:
you are aged 56 or over
you are at high risk from coronavirus (clinically extremely vulnerable)
you are an eligible frontline health or social care worker
you have a condition that puts you at higher risk (clinically vulnerable)
you have a learning disability
you are a main carer for someone at high risk from coronavirus
www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/book-coronavirus-vaccination/
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 6 Mar 21 at 13:08
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>> www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/book-coronavirus-vaccination/
>>
That was the link I used a week ago. At the time it said over 64 but my sister who is heavily involved in the planning logistics of this tipped me off that in fact the limit was, by then, 60.
The fact it's now down to mid fifties suggests excellent progress.
Had mine yesterday. All very well run and pretty similar to experiences of others.
Was told early on that they 'we're using Astra Zeneca today'. After being done, which involved removing my long sleeved outer shirt to allow access to the top of my arm, I was told to wait 15minutes. This could either on the distanced utilitarian wipe clean plastic chairs or in my own car. I was told that if I started to feel ill in the car I should sound my horn and open the door at which point the parking Marshals would summon help.
Little bit achey today but nothing serious.
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Get this. A 66 yo acquaintance of mine has been offered the jab, more than once, but refuses to drive 30 miles (52 minutes according to Google) to where it will be administered.
He wants to go to either his local surgery, 0.5 mile, or 13 miles down the road to a vaccination centre.
I’ve no idea why he’s not been offered a jab locally, but I’d be off like a shot anywhere it was offered me.
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>> I'd be off like a shot anywhere it was offered me.
I don't know how old you are, but that link above is >56yrs.
Or are you irritatingly young?
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State Pension for me later this year. See the Air Miles mount up ! I had my jab 3 weeks ago...still the possibility of a last minute trip to warm up the bones in Spain in June before the crowds arrive and it gets too warm.
My regular rental company are holding a lot of euros on my account and I don’t want them going out of date.
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Antibody test.
I had my first jab a month ago.
Today I did my antibody test with a kit supplied by Biobank.
The result indicates I have some anti bodies. Pleased something is working :-)
The same kits are available on line e.g. £107 for four
The instruction booklet has NHS or many other logos on it. ( my one has Biobank )
www.bristol.ac.uk/media-library/sites/alspac/documents/covid-19/COVID-19%20home%20antibody%20testing%20instructions.pdf
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Denmark is to stop using the Astra Zenica vaccine after blood clots are discovered.
This is on a news ticker. I cant find a link at the moment.
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IMO they are doing the right thing really (in fact I doubt they had much choice) but it will undoubtedly play into the hands of the anti-vaxers and the anti-AZ folk.
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Is it 20 odd million doses given in the UK so far? Against one case, possibly 2 in Denmark. I'd take the jab now with no worries. That's worse than your chances of winning the lottery.
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>>That's worse than your chances of winning the lottery
Or do I mean better? Or less? Or maybe even more?
~Anyway, the lottery is more likely to happen.
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Denmark's (and Iceland's, and Norway's) move is an over-reaction. A minute proportion of those vaccinated world-wide with the AZ shot have been affected by blood clots.
No causal link has been established or even suggested.
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more likely poor injection technique, air bubble?
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"more likely poor injection technique, air bubble?`"
This was what worried me when I entrusted my wife to give me the daily jab of anticoagulant after my nephrectomy; she could have done for me there and then and blamed it on poor technique :-(
She did once manage to cause a small contusion, but apparently that's about par for the course.
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>> "more likely poor injection technique, air bubble?`"
>>
>> This was what worried me when I entrusted my wife to give me the daily
>> jab of anticoagulant after my nephrectomy; she could have done for me there and then
>> and blamed it on poor technique :-(
>>
>> She did once manage to cause a small contusion, but apparently that's about par for
>> the course.
I have had this polava on three separate occasions. I did it myself, I had boxes of pre-prepared syringes with no air in - break off the protector over the needle, jab it in and push. The agro is finding new spots.
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" I did it myself,"
WHAT??? Married to a nurse and you had to do it yourself. Clearly, you should pay her more! My wife just did it out of a sense of sadism.
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>>My wife just did it out of a sense of sadism.
Ah, but look who she was doing it to.
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"Ah, but look who she was doing it to."
Yes, but I drew the line at letting her tie me up.
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>> " I did it myself,"
>>
>> WHAT??? Married to a nurse and you had to do it yourself.
It seemed safer that way.
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Why are significant percentages of certain groups of the population refusing to have the vaccine?
Yes, I realise they don't trust it, or they think there is something unacceptable in the vaccine, but WHY?
Why do they believe/trust some unknown bloke on the internet with no qualifications rather than a professor of medicine with a dozen degrees?
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>> more likely poor injection technique, air bubble?
There's no issue if there's an air bubble as it's an intramuscular injection. According to the training I got, anyway...
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>> Here's a couple of links
>>
>> www.independent.co.uk/voices/covid-vaccine-black-people-us-b1777680.html
>>
>> www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/youngreporter/19053410.south-asians-not-want-vaccine/
>>
One of those articles was published on Christmas Eve, the other six weeks ago. Haven't things changed since then?
If a politician I don't like tells me to take the vaccine, is that a sound reason NOT to take it?
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> One of those articles was published on Christmas Eve, the other six weeks ago. Haven't
>> things changed since then?
From what I've read no.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56361840
A bit of a look at the EU vaccination program.
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Had my first injection yesterday (the AstraZenneca) - no side effects so-far other than thirst after bedtime last night). Avoiding alcohol for a couple of weeks. My wife had both Pfizer injections at the start of the cycle in January as she works in a surgery and was admin in the vaccine centre. The local GPs are really on a roll here, my surgery started the over 60s on Saturday, whilst my wife's place is further ahead.
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My wife and I had our (Pfizer) jabs 4/5 weeks ago with no effect other than not wanting to sleep on that side for a couple of nights.
My son (39, slight asthma) received his AZ jab yesterday and is reporting feeling very cold with some flu like symptoms.
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>> My wife and I had our (Pfizer) jabs 4/5 weeks ago with no effect other
>> than not wanting to sleep on that side for a couple of nights.
>> My son (39, slight asthma) received his AZ jab yesterday and is reporting feeling very
>> cold with some flu like symptoms.
>>
Not doing so well here. Significantly older than 39 with asthma and other health problems that officially mark me as being at high risk but no sign of an appointment yet.
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"British Airways plans app-based travel pass"
www.bbc.com/news/business-56392570
In Chile they are saying that proof of vaccine is likely to be required by cinemas, bars, hospitals, airports etc. etc.
We shall see.
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"In Chile"
From the figures that I've seen, Chile continues to do exceptionally well with their vaccine rollout.
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>> "In Chile"
>>
>> From the figures that I've seen, Chile continues to do exceptionally well with their vaccine
>> rollout.
Kind of.
The problem is that the younger people in Chile, let's say 25 to 45, take little or no precautions other than those that they are forced to take in shops, bars and restaurants. Two weeks ago was the end of the holiday season when everybody flooded back to schools, work and the city.
So infections in that age group are through the roof and continuing. Consequently Chile is not seeing the benefits from the vaccination programme that one might hope, though the death rate is not rising as fast as the infection rate..
Chile has vaccinated;
'Ordinary' people down to age 59
Health workers and Teachers down to age 21
"At risk" people down to age 46
Certain professions (banks, airlines, transport companies, etc) down to age 21
Next week is "at risk" people down to 16
The week after, 22nd?, will resume 'ordinary people looking to do 2 or 3 years per day. So really that will be the larger beginning of the impact on infections. Well, subject to the lead time for immunity.
So they're getting there
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 14 Mar 21 at 19:03
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FYI, though it is in Spanish....
www.lareina.cl/vacunacion-covid-19/
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 14 Mar 21 at 19:05
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From what I've seen chile is vaccinating around 1% of it's population per day, which is very good. The UK is around 0.6/7 a day, I think the issue is vaccine production and supply, I believe the system could do more per day.
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Yet another advantage of our ID cards is that there is no need for any invitation system.
One can simply turn up at any vaccination centre assuming that one is both within that day's criteria and carrying one's ID card.
There are also mobile vaccination buses. b***** great luxury air-conditioned double deckers which tour their respective routes all day stopping at various squares or plazas
They also have these going around the streets doing the flu stuff
www.recoleta.cl/recoleta-contara-con-vacunatorio-movil-contra-la-influenza-para-grupos-de-riesgos/
Which are brilliant.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 14 Mar 21 at 19:31
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That all looks very well organised.
I think it was last October when a fellow bass and I in the choir were discussing when to call it a day with choir practices. As infection numbers were rising, he said that his critical point would be when the number of new infections in West Suffolk reached 100/100k. That number was passed in November, then peaked at 499 on 8th Jan, then has gradually come down since reaching 52, then staying at around 40 for the last fortnight. I have been nerdishly keeping a note in my diary.
While I am sure that more infections are being found as a result of more testing, I am perturbed that the number remains at 40 ....... covid is still with us and, unless great care is maintained, it will come back to bite us. I hope people understand the simple principle that the more virus that exists, then the more likely it is that mutations will arise.
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>> I am perturbed that the number remains at 40
I don't think you should be, those infections probably lie largely within the younger non-vaccinated.
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Our choir was suspended last March, not heard of any that have been doing anything other than on Zoom etc.
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>> Our choir was suspended last March, not heard of any that have been doing anything
>> other than on Zoom etc.
Mrs B's community orchestra resumed some distanced practice during the summer/autumn of 2020 but ceased by October.
Wales may well be different. My daughter in Connah's Quay keeps us updated on what they can do.
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>> Our choir was suspended last March, not heard of any that have been doing anything
>> other than on Zoom etc.
>>
I auditioned for the choir when I was at school. I was asked not to come back.
It was also suggested that I need not bother with music lessons after a session on the recorder.
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>> I auditioned for the choir when I was at school. I was asked not to
>> come back.
I tried to be a blood donor. They told me not to come back after the third time. They said I took up too many resources. I'd sweat, tremble and be a nervous wreck (I hate needles). Never did get a cup of tea and biccie.
I've a school report at eleven: "Tom has no artisitic ability whatsoever".
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>> I've a school report at eleven: "Tom has no artisitic ability whatsoever".
One of mine There will always be a job for zero in the circus once he has finished his clown of the class apprenticeship
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"Our choir was suspended last March, not heard of any that have been doing anything other than on Zoom etc."
After the start of the first lockdown we were only using Zoom. Things continued like that through the summer, then there was a brief period of a couple of months around September/October when we were allowed to to meet in an 'approved' hall with reduced numbers i.e. about 14 of us, with the windows open, chairs spaced at >2m, masks worn when not actually singing, strictly 'no mingling' instructions and one-way in/out.
Our choirmaster was taking serious advice from some national choir organisation - the name of which escapes me; he wasn't acting as a maverick.
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Back when the original SARS was a thing, we were on a cruise from Singapore to Malaysia and back and all of the staff had to wear masks - punters did not but everyone's temperature was checked on boarding/alighting the ship.
Was a bit odd watching a band playing and as soon as the finished they all popped their maks back on.
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"they all popped their maks back on."
Odd thing to do. Why didn't you aks?
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>> "they all popped their maks back on."
>>
>> Odd thing to do. Why didn't you aks?
Bad weather was due clearly
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AZ state the incidence of blood clots in the general population is higher than that of people receiving the AZ vaccine.
Does that mean the AZ vaccine can protect you from blood clots?
Last edited by: bathtub tom on Mon 15 Mar 21 at 14:13
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>> Does that mean the AZ vaccine can protect you from blood clots?
Probably not. But it might mean that the physical activity of going out for a vaccination can protect you from blood clots...
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>> But it might mean that the physical activity of going out for a vaccination can protect you from blood clots...
Or conversely that those able and willing to move are less likely to be subject to clots.
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>> Or conversely that those able and willing to move are less likely to be subject
>> to clots.
Then there would perhaps be no like-for-like comparison?
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"The Biella prosecutor's office has opened criminal proceedings against unknown persons for manslaughter after the death of Sandro Tognatti, the musician who died on Saturday night a few hours after the administration of the Covid vaccine produced by Astra Zeneca."
...
"It should be noted - continues the Public Prosecutor - that the precautionary measure has been implemented because, although at present there is no scientific evidence that allows to establish with certainty the existence of causal or concausal factors..."
From: torino.repubblica.it/cronaca/2021/03/15/news/astrazeneca_i_nas_sequestrano_in_tutta_italia_il_lotto_bloccato_in_piemonte-292332904/
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That is BAU for Italian legal proceedings, anyone dies in anything other than clear natural circumstances, legal blame is sought until proven otherwise.
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"EU agency says AstraZeneca vaccine is 'safe and effective'"
www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56440139
Bit of an oops for the countries that delayed and caused an increase in infection rates.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 18 Mar 21 at 17:50
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""EU agency says AstraZeneca vaccine is 'safe and effective'""
I watched the announcement on tv, but no one asked the obvious question - if clots can occur naturally, whether or not given the AZ jab - what level of clots occur after patients are inoculated with other vaccines e.g. the Pfizer one? Were other vaccines checked at the same time as the AZ study was carried out? Maybe they didn't want to open that can of worms.
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>>if clots can occur naturally, whether or not given the AZ jab - what level of clots occur after patients are inoculated with other vaccines e.g. the Pfizer one?
I can't remember where I read it, but apparently the frequency of clots is similar for AZ and Pfizer, which it should be if the clots* aren't caused by the vaccines.
*By 'clots' I mean thrombi, not anti-vaxxers.
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Coronavirus Vaccine - Volume 7 - sooty123
