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Ongoing debate.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 23 Feb 21 at 03:08
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If you are 65-70 you can probably book a vaccination on this link.
www.nhs.uk/book-a-coronavirus-vaccination/do-you-have-an-nhs-number?fbclid=IwAR120is6d-pWKFkel4non6sd-_6yxYHl3u2LzVbDTE4Jk2iJT99xY5AHE9I
Just worked for me, but I don't know what postcode differences might be.
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I got to the date and time choice and it was offering me 10+ miles away but SWMBO wants to wait till we are invited.
I suppose we don't get invited to much these days so she's missing it! :-)
Friends elsewhere in the country - she got a text or phone message the other day inviting her for her jab in two days time (today). He's one of those who "prides himself" in not looking at his phone much and thereby missed out....and will get done at a different time, presuming the invite will come by post. I'm not really sure why people are like that in this day and age.
Last edited by: smokie on Fri 12 Feb 21 at 17:50
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...locally, the over 65s have started. I was going to wait for the invite, but the eligibility criteria linked to on the appointment system states that you don't (subject to eligibility) have to wait to hear.
So, I've just booked 19:20 tonight about 20 minutes minutes away, and shall go clutching my passport (I only look about 40!).
They can only turn me away.
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>> They can only turn me away.
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..entirely frictionless. Booked online at the timestamp of the above post; Had dinner, did 45 minute round trip; queued for a short while awaiting a fresh batch of vaccine, and back home at 19:40.
Most embarrassing thing was being shown to the next free vaccination station by someone who greeted me by (shortened) first name, who I didn't recognise. It was the mother of my daughter's best friend right the way from childhood to now. Mind you, she was wearing a mask, had died her hair, and, as she normally lives in Cyprus, was rather unexpected (even though she's a highly-qualified nurse).
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>> So, I've just booked 19:20 tonight about 20 minutes minutes away, and shall go clutching
>> my passport (I only look about 40!).
If photo id is required, Mrs C will never be able to get the jab as she has none.
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I took it because I didn't wait for a letter (having checked the advice said that, as long as you were eligible you didn't need to).
Largely for if I got challenged though I suspect the bus pass would have sufficed.
As I'd booked on-line and was "in the system" I suspect I'd have been processed even I were 40! (especially as there was no queue).
The letter/text will trump everything if you waIt for it, but having your NHS number seems to be the main thing.
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>>I'm not really sure why people are like that in this day and age.
Because I don't need to be picking up the 'phone every couple of minutes to see if I've missed some completely inane message. Neither do I jump up at every beep, bing and other tone.
I'll switch it on when I want to. In the meantime I've got a landline and a tower PC that I'll look at a few times a day.
How on earth do you think we managed before t'interweb and mobile 'phones?
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Had a late call this afternoon from my tame GP hitting the reserve list.
'Get your harris down here.'
Had the dregs of an AstraZeneca bottle at the nearby vaccination centre.
I hit the big 65 shortly so almost in that 65+ group.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Fri 12 Feb 21 at 20:21
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>> Had the dregs of an AstraZeneca bottle at the nearby vaccination centre.
>>
My appointment was last of the shift before closure. Judging by the "heightened presence" a number of your erstwhile "colleagues" were lined up for the same treatment.
(I had a short wait whilst they broke out a new batch, so I suspect there would be sufficient to ensure that, and why let it go to waste?)
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I suppose its how they manage the 'no shows' and make the most of every last drop so as not to waste. Lets face it if you've got blues and twos you can get there before closing time :)
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It's the right thing to do, but remember the drama and righteous, group hand-wringing, virtue signalling and drama a month ago when it happened at an Irish hospital?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 12 Feb 21 at 20:56
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Went to my local Vacc centre today to see if my 2nd jab could be brought forward for some radiotherapy that I am going to have.
The centre was very quiet, loads of people in yellow hi-viz standing around. I got talking to one of the people, he said 'we have no one coming in'.
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What you having the ole Neutrons aimed at Duncs?
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Basal Cell Carcinoma on the boat.
Last edited by: Duncan on Sat 13 Feb 21 at 08:59
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FFS, dont move, you could lose an ear or a nose.
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Bathtub Tom - probably the same way as people managed before cars, and electricity, and houses, landlines and tower PCs. :-)
Your choice then - but if you are asked for contact details by an "authority" don't give it as your means of contact. (I doubt you would but the person in my tale absolutely did)
SWMBO relates a tale about a local car park where (maybe for a limited time due to some fault) you could only pay parking by phone. She ended up a couple of times helping out people who manage without. Others might have suggested they park elsewhere.
It isn't obligatory to use it for messaging and you can just give the number to those who you want to hear from.
And lastly I don't get why people seem so proud that they don't use phones. Personally I find it the opposite of impressive :-)
Last edited by: smokie on Fri 12 Feb 21 at 20:57
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>> Because I don't need to be picking up the 'phone every couple of minutes to
>> see if I've missed some completely inane message. Neither do I jump up at every
>> beep, bing and other tone.
Normally, neither do I. And I do think people are obsessed with them.
But half way through the apocalypse with vaccination opportunities in the air then I most certainly do
>> How on earth do you think we managed before t'interweb and mobile 'phones?
Same way we managed without cars, electricity, clean water, TV, cinemas, trains, aeroplanes, vaccines and the rest - we had no choice and so managed as best we could.
I have no plans to manage without that lot either.
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Arm is just a little bit sore this morning. I was fine when I went to bed then started to feel ever so slightly chill like. Other than that fine. Had the same reaction to the standard flu jab.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Sat 13 Feb 21 at 11:10
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My arm was fine, just had a "wooly head feeling" about 24 hours later.
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Fortunately no reaction to my Pfizer jab on Wednesday night.
In fact I had a much longer walk than normal the following day which I wouldn’t have done had there been any ‘after effects’.
My best pal, exact same age as myself, but living 30+ miles away is having his jab this Sunday @ Skipton hospital. He has an LS postcode, mine bring BD. Different health authorities possibly but were both surprised to have had such early invites.
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Felt fine after mine, missus was ropey for about 12 hours.
Have bee. Seeing a few patients test positive after a single vaccine but so far all have had trivial symptoms.
Not enough 2-dose patients out there to comment on the benefit of thd booster dose.
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>> How on earth do you think we managed before t'interweb and mobile 'phones?
you would manage to miss your vital coronavirus jabs.
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SWMBO changed her mind so we have booked for next Friday, albeit 10 miles away. If offered a local one we may cancel, although I'm not inclined to mess the system around too much.
Thanks Manatee for the link!
Last edited by: smokie on Sat 13 Feb 21 at 12:01
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Sod's law, my letter came this morning. No matter, I'm booked already for 0955 tomorrow, second dose booked for early May. Going the the same pharmacy as the boss did on Wednesday, she got the Oxford one.
She's had no ill effects - proves nothing, but might make sense if we have already had COVID as my heart consultant thinks, and she already has a trained-up immune system.
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I suspect it means hee-haw: my colleague had CV last easter and felt awful after their Pfizer jag. Another was absolutely fine (but has a history of poor response to Hep B vaccine - after 4 booster still had a minimal antibody response)
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Son got a formal invite locally.
He queried it but they confirmed it and there were several immediate slots today.
So he has been jabbed.
So what ? He has no idea why him ? Is there something back in his medical history that says he is in a vulnerable group ? We are baffled. He 40 years old.
My daughter has had her second jab but she is a medic exposed it it.
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Quite possibly its a records error.
I used to get offered a flu jab each year from my mid 50’s onwards. I queried this with my doc, when I was there on another matter, and he looked at the screen and said he could see why the system was doing it but it was wrong. As my appointment was about something else I didn’t ask more about it and the invites stopped until I reached the proper age.
More worryingly my pregnant daughter was identified as vulnerable and must shield in the first phase of the COVID outbreak. She queried it and was told it was due to her (non-existent) heart condition. It turned out an entry on her records had been crossed with someone else. She tried to get it resolved as she was worried that the other woman wasn’t getting the right advice but it never was clearly resolved.
These are different surgeries and I guess with all the keying of manual records onto new systems over the years errors are inevitable.
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The thought occurs to me that I may end up being overlooked. We moved to this town 19 years ago and registered with a doctor's practice. My wife has been to them so often that she should be invited to the office parties, but since registering in 2002 I've never had occasion to go back. They gave me an MOT type examination at the time, said I was in excellent order, and I've never felt sick enough since to feel that I needed their attentions.
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>> The thought occurs to me that I may end up being overlooked.
>>
...seeing as, being eligible, I managed to book without a personal invitation (and I was told that would have been quite valid even several days beforehand) I doubt that's going to be an issue if you don't want it to be.
As above, I had mine Friday; since that I've had a letter from the NHS (national) inviting me, a text from my GP doing the same, and today a text from Notts CCG doing the same again. (The first using one booking system, and the other two using a different, local one).
The impression here (reinforced by someone who is volunteering at a large centre) is that they currently have more capacity than takers, and are desperately trying to remedy that.
(Sore arm/stiff neck, and a little tired and listless today, but not really any other ill-feeling - still managed to get out for today's exercise walk).
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Don't think I'm eligible at the moment (62 with apparently good health ) but maybe I'll prod them when my age group is being done.
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>>Don't think I'm eligible at the moment (62 with apparently good health )
There's a whole category of people who are classified as highly vulnerable who don't make the cut for accelerated vaccination - quite understandably as they realised along the way that there are about 17 million of us with chronic heart disease and a few other things so we aren't abnormal at all and we qualify for the vaccine just by age.
Until the heart thing at 64, I assumed I was pretty normal in not taking any pills but I have since realised that nearly everybody in their mid-60's has got something chronic they are medicated for, many of them more than one thing!
Last edited by: Manatee on Sun 14 Feb 21 at 14:12
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I hardly visited a doc when at work, though I am not and have never been especially fit.
When I stopped work I went in for an MOT and they identified my thyroid wasn't working, and a bit of high blood pressure and cholesterol so I went from having no tablets a day to three. Now it's five!!
Still they are all free and (hopefully) largely preventative and at 65 I can still say I've never had to spend a night in hospital since I was three days old. Long may it stay that way...
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>> I hardly visited a doc when at work,
At the age of 62 My doctor sent me a letter to confirm I was still residing at this address or if I was still alive as they hadn't heard from me since i registered in 1983. I have kinda made up for it since then. (tho to be fair I am still bypassing the doctor, fast tracked to the engine drivers not the grease monkeys.)
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 14 Feb 21 at 15:29
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>..(tho to be fair I am still bypassing the doctor, fast tracked to the engine
>drivers not the grease monkeys.)
My GP has been brilliant (except for the PITA E-consult system). It's the specialist I was referred to who is a complete waste of time.
I've actually seen him face-to-face for about ten seconds when he apologised at my first appointment with him and said he had just been bleeped and disappeared. I've had three telephone 'appointments' with him where it's obvious that he wants to end the call as soon as he can. I had to remind him during the last call that a follow-up blood test might be a good idea. When I asked him for a prognosis on our first call he replied "Morbidity is 50% at 5 years". That was it.
I've had a CT scan, an MRI, an endoscopy and the blood tests and heard nothing from him, neither has my GP.
I got so P'd off with my requests for info being ignored I jumped through the hoops to get copies of all my records. There is some interesting stuff in there that should affect my treatment but he hasn't told me.
Our next appointment is another call at the end of April and he'd better have his 'arris in gear or I'll be looking at making a formal complaint.
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Kevin, when BB sold you to L, did your medical insurance go with you?
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 14 Feb 21 at 21:58
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Lenovo had their own medical cover with Vitality. Slightly better cover than the BB scheme IIRC.
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Nope.
I left two years ago. There was a round of redundancies and I managed to wrangle a very good package out of them.
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Had my Astra Zeneca one this morning. I also got a text from my GP and the NHS letter the following day!
Get it booked when the site lets you Humph.
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A friend of mine had the AZ jab yesterday lunchtime at his doctors surgery. By evening (8pm) he was feverish and sweaty, heart rate up, and spent a very uncomfortable night.
He’s now up and about, feeling better, but not 100% ( to be fair he’s not very fit. Needs to drag his ass out the door and take exercise)
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Similar to my OH, who was jabbed Saturday lunchtime, felt fine until evening, then got the chills, didn't want to eat, went to bed early, temperature 38 but blood pressure normal, had a bad night and spent a good deal of yesterday in bed, fatigued.
Today all seems back to normal.
She had the AZ jab, whereas I had the Pfizer three weeks before. For me, no side-effects except a very slightly sore arm muscle for one day.
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Wales is staring on the over sixty fives this week so I should be getting a call soon.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-56061145
Slight delay at the local centre we visited on Thursday.
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>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-56061145
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>> Slight delay at the local centre we visited on Thursday.
>>
That's the one I had my jab at and went back to on Friday to see if i could have my second.
NO! I did not set fire to the place on Saturday.
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New centre for jabs
tinyurl.com/1lv4b4jz
Just across the green from the previous site.
Froms Jags to jabs
The site now vacant awaiting OK for a LIDL to replace it.
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I nearly bought an XF sportbrake from there, I guess they have moved to the giant LRJ at Sunbury.
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>> I nearly bought an XF sportbrake from there
.....might only get an Astra now.....
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About 400 yards up the road is a guy I knew from CB days, he had a fantastically shabby Citroen DS Safari.
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>> New centre for jabs
>> tinyurl.com/1lv4b4jz
Apparently it's moved again, now in Mercer Road, Thames Ditton.
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>..since that I've had a letter from the NHS (national) inviting me, a text from
>my GP doing the same,..
I received a text last week and Mrs K received a letter the next morning and hit the roof! There was a leaflet in there "COVID-19 vaccination: guide for older adults".
"Who are they calling old!!?"
We're booked for Tuesday afternoon and my arm is still sore from my first-time flu jab last weekend.
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>>We're booked for Tuesday afternoon and my arm is still sore from my first-time flu jab last weekend.
I think you may have to delay it. IIRC you have to leave it for a couple of weeks after the 'flu jab.
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...I wondered about that. I think originally at least 7 days was the deadline, but I can find hits saying that SOP now allows there to be zero wait (You could have both at the same time).
Maybe worth a check, but it now seems to be considered OK.
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We both had our vaccine on Saturday.My wife was getting more and more worried she is disabled and wouldn't leave the house.
I had a bit of a headache and a temperature on Saterday night but I feel fine now.I got caught up in so much misinformation and I admit went in the wrong direction.My daughter who is a mental health nurse put me right.You never to old to listen.
The next vaccine is in three months.
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You spread your damaging lies misleading goodness knows how many people with your ridiculous conspiracy theories right up until until you were offered the vaccine.
You spineless, ridiculous, lightweight Muppet.
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>> You spread your damaging lies misleading goodness knows how many people with your ridiculous conspiracy
>> theories right up until until you were offered the vaccine.
>>
>> You spineless, ridiculous, lightweight Muppet.
Its so heartwarming to see there is always a warm welcome and redemption for a reformed sinner in the Church of Mark.
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>> I admit went in the wrong direction
Hardly a case of whole-hearted repentance so wasn't really eligible for forgiveness.
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Pretty sure the guidance is still to leave at least seven days between vaccinations... if you did have a reaction how would they know which one caused it?
I still have a strong feeling that my wife and I will still both receive a letter from our GP when the time comes even though both of us have had the jab via our NHS roles, from my experience I don't think the central register and communication is as well greased as it might seem, that's probably why some of you are getting more than one invite from various sources.
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>> ...I wondered about that. I think originally at least 7 days was the deadline, but
>> I can find hits saying that SOP now allows there to be zero wait (You
>> could have both at the same time).
Shirley if one could have both at the same time, that would be one jab?
My arm is a bit tender now, and I feel achy-eyed, as if I am getting a cold. But nothing serious.
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>> Shirley if one could have both at the same time, that would be one jab?
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....or two jabbers.... (one in each arm?) ;-)
I can still find reference to revised guidance to GPs that says it can be done "at the same time").
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Frau Zee has been called up for the Jab, she is 63 so they are cracking through the groups here.
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Other than actually being called, is there anywhere you can find out where your area is up to?
Last edited by: Crankcase on Mon 15 Feb 21 at 18:08
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Local surgeries in my area have a linked Facebook Covid hub for them to share information and spread the news of who is next group and when they are likely to be called
Check your own surgery website or facebook page but currently I believe most areas will be working on the 65 to 70 age group and the Clinically Extremely Vulnerable.
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Ah, thanks, Helicopter. I was wondering if there was some national site I'd missed as people online seem to know what their areas are doing.
Our surgery doesn't say anything useful and their Facebook page needs a Facebook account to see, so that isn't going to happen.
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Crankcase have you tried your local trusts website, they might have a bit more info?
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Thank you sooty. I'd not thought of that because I don't know anything about trusts, so had to google. I found what seems to be the "trust" for Cambridgeshire, where it says:
If you are not over 70 years old or clinically extremely vulnerable please wait to be contacted
So now I know I guess. I wait. That's ok, we are both group 6, and there are millions in that group. I'd just have liked to have some idea how fast or otherwise they are progressing locally, but obviously it doesn't really matter.
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>> Thank you sooty. I'd not thought of that because I don't know anything about trusts,
>> so had to google. I found what seems to be the "trust" for Cambridgeshire, where
>> it says:
>>
>> If you are not over 70 years old or clinically extremely vulnerable please wait to
>> be contacted
>>
My experience is that both provision and information is very fragmented. That is not an overt criticism, as I'm in awe of what the (largely un-interfered with in this case) NHS has achieved so far, and the situation is changing rapidly.
In my particular case in Notts, the provision and invites seem to be taking two separate routes:
1. Via the national NHS initiative, which is, I think, represented by the link already posted above, and which I'm assuming will give you an option of the larger, "national" centres (certainly, one of my neighbours who was quick out of the traps using this had the offer of locations in Leics and Derbys, rather a long way away).
2. Via the Clinical Commissioning Group's initiative, which is running its own booking system, and offering sites in Notts only. SWMBO took an early slot around 13 miles away, whilst I got one later within 2 hours of booking only 6 miles away.
Notts have been doing over 65's for over a week now (even though headline news is that it started today). Initially via invitation, but very quickly the local booking system was thrown open (to all eligible) without invitation. The documentation as to whether you should wait for an invite, or just go for it, varied (even from the same underlying source) depending on by which route you accessed it. (without an invite, I waited until there was both a clear directive just to book, and an obvious surplus of slots anyway). Apocryphally, experiences like this are fairly common elsewhere.
I had a letter inviting me to the "national" booking site the day after I'd been done, and texts from the CCG and GP inviting me to the other booking site over the next two days. Here, at least, there isn't just a single route available.
I think the secret to staying on top of it is to understand just who is organising the delivery in your area. National and by CCG is one option, but in other areas I believe individual GPs have retained elements of control - there may be 1, 2, 3 or more overlapping sets of provision.
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"Frau Zee has been called up for the Jab, she is 63 so they are cracking through the groups here."
I'd have thought that, as a returning nurse, she would have already been jabbed as a priority.
My wife is in for her (first) jab tomorrow; she's 67.
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Letter came today but I'd already booked thru the link supplied by Manatee. The letter seems to prefer you to go to the link rather than wait for a call. I think this is a change of strategy. The suggestion I saw was that GP and local centres were going to concentrate more on the younger with underlying health conditions
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Received a letter today about how to go about getting a jab. Had one 5 days ago after a phone call from my local surgery. I hate needles so threw the letter away. They’re my pet hate.
Needles
Not letters
Last edited by: legacylad on Mon 15 Feb 21 at 20:21
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>>so threw the letter away.
I wonder if that is then counted in the numbers of those who have not taken up the vaccine? But you'll also be counted as someone who did take up the vaccine.
If so, one assumes that they'll realise when they run out of population that some must have been double counted.
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My nhs offer of first jab arrived today, just over a week water the one from my surgery, and 6 days after I had the jab. I assumed this was planned as a belt and braces approach to see that nobody missed out on the offer.
Maybe I am just naive.
Anyway it will all work out in the end.
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>> My nhs offer of first jab arrived today, just over a week water the one
>> from my surgery, and 6 days after I had the jab. I assumed this was
>> planned as a belt and braces approach to see that nobody missed out on the
>> offer.
The number of people reporting multiple approaches suggests a belt/braces/twine etc approach.
And that must be right.
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>>And that must be right.
Agreed. Far, far, far better than than one missed.
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>> The number of people reporting multiple approaches suggests a belt/braces/twine etc approach.
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...all controlled/collated by NHS number...
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It wasn’t a letter with a specific invite..date, time. It was about how to apply for a jab.
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Of course it was an offer to apply, general invitations to specific times and places with no consideration of transport, clash of dates etc., would surely result in a high number of refusals
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Miss Z said lots of Army staff at the trust today helping out with general duties like porters, food and drug distribution and she had a military lad do reception work for her. There are some medics as well.
They're there because the hospital is running out of healthy staff. (South Coast large hospital in a town with a significantly improved rate.)
She is currently seeing outpatients so not on a Covid ward.
One of her colleagues, a 30 year old Asian make is in intensive care.
Apparently the Army staff are very polite.
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>> "Frau Zee has been called up for the Jab, she is 63 so they are
>> cracking through the groups here."
>>
>> I'd have thought that, as a returning nurse, she would have already been jabbed as
>> a priority.
She had to can that when I was diagnosed with bladder cancer and went on chemo then immunotherapy.
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I have very impressed up to now with the vaccine rollout. However there seems to be a risk of a hiatus. The first categories were all but finished yesterday but the promised letters for 65-69 years (and others) haven’t been received here according to local social media. I have heard nothing from NHS.
Even then it seems from other articles that the letters are not an actual appointment but direct you to the NHS self booking site where I found the earliest appointments are four days hence. If this typical vaccination rates will drop this week while there is a slack period. They should have opened the booking earlier so that the flow was maintained.
More positively I have booked my tests online at a location 9 miles away, the first available being Thursday.
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>>
>> Even then it seems from other articles that the letters are not an actual appointment
>> but direct you to the NHS self booking site where I found the earliest appointments
>> are four days hence. If this typical vaccination rates will drop this week while there
>> is a slack period. They should have opened the booking earlier so that the flow
>> was maintained.
>>
I rather interpreted that the other way round. The non-availability of immediate slots being accounted for by one or the other of:
i) those formerly available having already been filled by demand, and/or
ii) a lack of availability of a supply of vaccine (AIUI, supplies are being targeted to ensure differences in demographic across the country don't overly skew the performance) and/or
iii) similar to the above, a deliberate pause to allow re-alignment.
In reality, a surfeit of available appointments is more likely to lead to a hiatus (and I believe that is why, locally, With supplies, logistics and staffing available, the advice to await invitation was (temporarily, for over 65's) withdrawn, with an exhortation to just "go for it").
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My letter came yesterday but I'd already booked using the link.
I would say that the post in some areas seems distinctly iffy - we seem to be getting most stuff in the usual timeframe but things we've posted to Birmingham daughter over the past few months have often been delayed by many days, and sometimes never arrived.
I prefer T&Es conclusions to MAs.
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Smokie, you both might be right. Let’s see how the figures go.
Meanwhile local official communication is poor hereabouts. My surgery hasn’t updated its online advice for about a week. They don’t mention the current new target groups at all so people are relying on local social media info (which seems unusually reliable) and taking the initiative to book online via the central NHS.
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>> Smokie, you both might be right. Let’s see how the figures go.
>>
>> Meanwhile local official communication is poor hereabouts. My surgery hasn’t updated its online advice for
>> about a week. They don’t mention the current new target groups at all so people
>> are relying on local social media info (which seems unusually reliable) and taking the initiative
>> to book online via the central NHS.
Its probably the long planned reduction in the supply of vaccines. I noticed the number of vaccinations on Sunday were down quite a bit.
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>> Its probably the long planned reduction in the supply of vaccines. I noticed the number
>> of vaccinations on Sunday were down quite a bit.
Not round here its not, all Frau Zeds cadre of friends (age mix from 60 to 65) have all been contacted over the last 4 days, and all are being done this week. Cracking on full pelt here.
Frau Z's invite was by email from some central Surrey contact centre, mine was a phone call from my doctor surgery and I just got a letter (from an NHS source in Bristol) inviting me as well.
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I used the link last Sat am and earliest appt at Marlow was a week away. We could have gone to Fleet a little earlier but decided we haven't been to Marlow for a while.
Had no contact from our local surgery yet which doesn't really surprise me as they seem to be hibernating :-)
Last edited by: smokie on Tue 16 Feb 21 at 11:12
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There'll be regional variations of course but I'm talking nationally.
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>> I would say that the post in some areas seems distinctly iffy - we seem
>> to be getting most stuff in the usual timeframe but things we've posted to Birmingham
>> daughter over the past few months have often been delayed by many days, and sometimes
>> never arrived.
Royal Mail has been troubled by both increased demand and staff absences (ill or isolating) throughout the pandemic. We sent my son a package of stuff in October in plenty time to arrive in Liverpool for his birthday. Eventually turned up a fortnight late. His sorting office is round the corner so he inquired; as above, number of posties both sorting and delivering well down on what was normal, never mind needed.
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I see the government has set its next target of 32m vaccinations by the end of April.
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Are they trying to align everything nationally? I believe we are ahead in my area but my centre sent 800 of their allocated doses down to the Midlands.
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There is a plan where vaccines are moved about the country to areas where they are behind the national average numbers.
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>> If you are 65-70 you can probably book a vaccination on this link.
>>
>> www.nhs.uk/book-a-coronavirus-vaccination/do-you-have-an-nhs-number?fbclid=IwAR120is6d-pWKFkel4non6sd-_6yxYHl3u2LzVbDTE4Jk2iJT99xY5AHE9I
>>
>> Just worked for me, but I don't know what postcode differences might be.
>>
Which option did you choose, health care or social care worker?
Only reason I ask the OH is now included in the extra lot of people that are now classed as extremely vulnerable, just wondered if people had just clicked through and got it without any issues?
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>>Which option did you choose, health care or social care worker?
I'm pretty sure I didn't see either of those options, presumably because I qualified on age.
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>> >>Which option did you choose, health care or social care worker?
>>
>> I'm pretty sure I didn't see either of those options, presumably because I qualified on
>> age.
>>
OK, thanks seem to have got it sorted and it's let me book it. Got booked in tomorrow morning.
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Chile has taken a somewhat more simplistic approach - age & ID card with schedule announcement posters emailed and nailed to lamposts.. Bear in mind that this country loves bureaucratic rules and the populace is happy to follow them. There's only ever trouble here if they fear someone is getting an advantage that others are not.
There are a vaccination stations everywhere. There are 5 in my comuna (small borough). Plus there is a special large double decker coach that is mobile and travels a circular route of plazas each day. There are 34 comunas in Santiago and they'll all be similarly equipped.
There are 312 comunas in the rest of Chile which will be equipped according to population density.
They issued a time table
3rd Feb Age 90+
4th Feb Age 89 - 87
5th Feb Age 86 - 85
8th Feb Age 84 - 81
9th Feb Age 80 - 78
etc. etc.
So far out to 02nd March Age 50 - 52
On March 3rd second doses commence on a similar timetable.
You can turn up to any vaccination station at any time and present your ID card (which shows your age). You'll be jabbed there and then.
Queues seem to be running at 10 or so per station all day, so quite manageable and quick.
Special cases need to present themselves at a hospital with a doctor's letter.
As I have said before, this lot may not know s*** from a shovel, but their vaccination infrastructure is second to none. They started 2 weeks ago and their current progress is 7th in the world at 12 per 100 pop.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 16 Feb 21 at 13:04
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The local Health Centre phoned Mrs O'Reliant this morning and she is booked in for Thursday afternoon. I'm a year older than her and haven't heard anything yet.
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www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-56078511
Ignoring all the BBC emotional s***e, I know a loophole when I see one....
Since Monday, all passengers arriving in Scotland on international flights have to enter "managed isolation".
However, this does not apply to those coming from within the Common Travel Area, including the UK and Ireland.
Now to check up on South America / Ireland flights, or possible Chile / US / Ireland....
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 16 Feb 21 at 19:54
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On the one hand, SWMBO was telling me earlier about people from red zones joining non-red flights to avoid hotel isolation.
On the other hand she was also telling me about how the separated queues are only a few feet apart.
On the next hand she was saying that you're not allowed out for a smoke from the hotels. But you are allowed out to walk. So the smokers go for a walk./..
Whilst on the other next hand a couple of people got fined £10k when they got caught dodging the quarantine.
And on the last hand some of her news comes from the Mail Online so any of it could be suspect.
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>> Now to check up on South America / Ireland flights, or possible Chile / US
>> / Ireland....
The hi-lighted case was in Scotland where ALL arrivals except those from the CTA are subject to quarantine. The rules in England are different as they only apply to Red List countries but the Red List covers pretty much all of South America.
I suspect that the family subject to the BBC article has arrived in the CTA before the quarantine regs kicked in at 00:01 on Monday.
I'm pretty sure that if you complete the pre-arrival form accurately you would need to show that your journey originated in Santiago. Now how that works if, say, you arrive via Dublin (or the US or Paris/Amsterdam) and fly on to London (or Birmingham) and fail to declare I don't know but I suspect a fine and/or the slammer beckon.
However I do wonder how you'd be picked up if you travelled overland from Dublin to Belfast and flew domestically to UK, perhaps arriving via a regional airport like Leeds or East Midlands, whether you could slip under the radar. Same if you flew to the EU and arrived back in Dover or Portsmouth on a ferry from France or Spain.
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As there is no passport control (yet) on hadrians wall there is no way to check travel record, so you can say WTF you like in transit between England and the untamed north.
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>> I do wonder how you'd be picked up if ..............
I wouldn't actually try, not my thing, but England charging people £1750 and forcing them to stay in a hotel is merely giving people increased incentive to try.
It is a ridiculous approach of no particular value beyond quietening the baying lemmings.
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>> What makes you say that?
Let us suppose their is a diabolical Chilean variant, only existing in Chile.
The UK decides to protect itself from this and so insists that people from Chile spend two weeks in a hotel. Readers of the Daily Mail are thrilled and the Daily Mail can find no other outrage simple enough for its readers to grasp.
All good.
Assuming of course that the only international traffic involving the UK and Chile is between each other, no third country is ever involved and no traveller has any contact with anyone else from anywhere else.
Sadly of course there were two people arriving in Heathrow that day, and they spent time in the same corridor. The one from Chile then went off on a connecting flight to Glasgow and was interred in a hotel. The one from safe country X entered the UK and since he was from a safe country, escaped internment.
Or any of a gazillion other possibilities.
The whole hotel thing fundamentally ignores how viruses spread and thus is only there to keep the whining hoards happy.
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I thought that was what you meant, thanks.
I guess it's either don't bother or just go the whole internment camp jobbie.
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>> I thought that was what you meant, thanks.
>>
>> I guess it's either don't bother or just go the whole internment camp jobbie.
I think that sometimes a precaution doesn't need to be 100% watertight and simply slowing stuff down can help. But giving people 1,750 reasons to dodge a rule is just plain stupid. Fortunately for the Government the knuckle draggers it's targetted at aren't smart enough to work it out. [probably little different in principle to Bromp's issues with ben. caps].
And I know people who have dodged internment using Paris, the tunnel, a UK train journey, and then quarantined at home; saving loads of money and having a much more pleasant time with a no less effective approach.
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I guess we could go the Aus route and have a really strict internment in certain hotels, although I know the tennis open is causing a faff as they are seen to be skipping ahead of Ozzies who are trying to get back home.
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>> I guess we could go the Aus route and have a really strict internment in
>> certain hotels, although I know the tennis open is causing a faff as they are
>> seen to be skipping ahead of Ozzies who are trying to get back home.
And worse, while Aussies are trapped abroad the tennis is causing outbreaks. Much admired they may be for their covid stance, they sold it down the river for money.
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>> I wouldn't actually try, not my thing, but England charging people £1750 and forcing them
>> to stay in a hotel is merely giving people increased incentive to try.
>>
>> It is a ridiculous approach of no particular value beyond quietening the baying lemmings.
I should perhaps have use 'one' rather than 'you' but slipping in via a transit in Dublin seems particularly glaring as a loophole. Obvs one would be ticketed from Red Zone to Dublin via (say) US and then book a standalone single to UK.
As you say, like so much of the stuff at present, it seems framed more for press value than as effective policy.
That's nothing new though. I've spent the morning navigating the technicalities of Benefit Cap that leaves somebody £200/month short of basic living expenses and market rent based on 30th centile for the area they live in.
It looks good in the tabloids as skivers v strivers but the reality is that it penalises you for renting privately and living outside of cities with very low rents.
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"As you say, like so much of the stuff at present, it seems framed more for press value than as effective policy. "
O.K If it's not an effective policy and is simply designed to appease baying lemmings what would be and effective policy?
If we take as as starting point that:
1) The exspert view is that It is vitally important that we prevent the arrival of potentially more dangerous variants of Coved 19 as far as is possible
2) People cannot be trusted to observe home quarantining procedures . Large propotions of people have been shown to fail to comply with the rules
3) Home quarantiing cannot be effectvilvely policed
4) We need to maintain fllights into the UK for absolutely essential requirements.
If we accept these criteria then hotel quarantining policy seems the onlly real option open to the Government.
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>
>> 1) The exspert view is that It is vitally important that we prevent the arrival
>> of potentially more dangerous variants of Coved 19 as far as is possible
What on earth makes you think there is anything special or more dangerous about variants that mutate in nasty foreign places and need to be blocked, by travellers given that
a: We mutated the most worlds most transmissible version ourselves, home grown in the UK (I guess because Brexit gave us more control)
b: Everyone else shut their borders but still got our Kent variation.
c: There are 65 million people in the UK, with one of the highest transmission rates going, that are perfectly capable of mutating and replicating any variant found abroad.
d: Most of the traffic coming into the UK is vital lorry drivers with goods from those nasty foreign places.
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"What on earth makes you think......."
If it is a fact that we have no chance of stopping or slowing down the import of the South African variant or other variants then of course all quarantining is useless and we might as well let everyone in to the UK without quarantine or checks, However the Government and its scientific advisor obviously think otherwise. They might be wrong but if they are right then we would be making a huge mistake in abandoning controls. Perhaps best to to default to the cautious view?
Yes of course other more variants might arise in the UK. It doesn't really change the argument about keeping out the S African variant.
I doubt any visitors arriving from the counties listed as red zones,and thus requiring quantine, are lorry drivers
Perhaps you might clarify what is your view. Should we abandon all controls from all countries?
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>> "What on earth makes you think......."
>>
>> If it is a fact that we have no chance of stopping or slowing down
>> the import of the South African variant or other variants
You missed the point. We dont import them, the name is simply where the mutation was first spotted. We will or already have mutate(d) the South African variant here all by ourselves. And others.
And to close the borders you need to shut down all the Europe/Uk lorry crossings. The traffic there is far higher than Heathrow or Gatwick. You prepared to do that? No I thought not.
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"And to close the borders you need to shut down all the Europe/Uk lorry crossings. The traffic there is far higher than Heathrow or Gatwick. You prepared to do that? No I thought not."
So if I am understaning you correctly you would abandon all Quarantine either at home or in Hotels? Should other conutries all abandon their regulation and travel return to normal do you think?
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>> So if I am understaning you correctly you would abandon all Quarantine either at home
>> or in Hotels? Should other conutries all abandon their regulation and travel return to normal
>> do you think?
No you tell me, you claim its effective, you explain how a greasy lorry who pees in a tizer bottle and craps in laybys is safe and a Businessman from Durban flying into Heathrow is not.
What you need to stop of course is hundreds of thousands of holiday makers a week
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 17 Feb 21 at 18:33
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you explain how a greasy lorry who
>> pees in a tizer bottle and craps in laybys is safe and a Businessman from
>> Durban flying into Heathrow is not.
>>
As long as no one touches the tizer bottles for 72 hours, it's all good.
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>No you tell me, you claim its effective, you explain how a greasy lorry who
>pees in a tizer bottle and craps in laybys is safe..
>What you need to stop of course is hundreds of thousands of holiday makers a week.
Can I go on holiday if I take a tizer bottle?
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>> >No you tell me, you claim its effective, you explain how a greasy lorry who
>> >pees in a tizer bottle and craps in laybys is safe..
>>
>> >What you need to stop of course is hundreds of thousands of holiday makers a
>> week.
>>
>> Can I go on holiday if I take a tizer bottle?
Of course, its a prereq for a Basingstoke resident.
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Brilliant. I finished the Duty Free tizer ages ago.
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Well I had my jab 2 weeks ago. Only 55-60 band but pre-op for the big C so Marsden offered me slot at their in house clinic as soon as they had finished the staff and I jumped at it.
hot and cold sweats that night, sore arm for a day and then fine.
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Thank you
I have been a lurker and very occassional poster for years. The mix of topics discussed is unusal amongst other forums (fora?), and the back and forth spats can be strangely addictive.
When I finally got around to having something to say found I had misremembered the password and never changed the email from an old work one, so I am back as a whole new me...
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>> Well I had my jab 2 weeks ago. Only 55-60 band but pre-op for the
>> big C so Marsden offered me slot at their in house clinic as soon as
>> they had finished the staff and I jumped at it.
>>
>> hot and cold sweats that night, sore arm for a day and then fine.
You had the AZ one then most seem to get some effect if thay have that one. Mrs Z had the Pfizer one and just had a sore arm, probably because she was jabbed by a firewoman, more used to using the jaws of life or a crowbar.
Good luck with C, I'm on my second different variant in two years and still kicking about.
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>You had the AZ one then most seem to get some effect if thay have that one.
We had the AZ one yesterday afternoon. I had a slight headache early evening but weirdly today I have the same symptoms that I did last May when I had the virus. Dry cough, tight chest and general fatigue.
Mrs K has a sore arm.
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Yep it was AZ for me.
As for the cancer op, seems they have caught it very early so chances are good.
Well done to you for being a 2X survivor.
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>> "As you say, like so much of the stuff at present, it seems framed more
>> for press value than as effective policy. "
>>
>> O.K If it's not an effective policy and is simply designed to appease baying lemmings
>> what would be and effective policy?
>>
>> If we take as as starting point that:
>>
>> 1) The exspert view is that It is vitally important that we prevent the arrival
>> of potentially more dangerous variants of Coved 19 as far as is possible
I don't see how we achieve that by only quarantining from countries with a mutation or others close to them. Mutations can arise anywhere and the probability of them arising in France isn't that much different to them arising in Chile.
In that sense the Scots have got it right.
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"In that sense the Scots have got it right".
OK so you think quarantine all visitors. You want more control not less
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>> "In that sense the Scots have got it right".
>>
>> OK so you think quarantine all visitors. You want more control not less
Not a question of what I want just about the making of policy.
In my mind you first look at the mischief you want to prevent and, based on evidence, how/why the threat arises and what is the evidenced basis upon which you tackle it.
If you want to remove/significantly the possibility of importing a new mutation how do you do that. It's not at all clear why saying that Brazil and South Africa, because they have mutations that have kicked about since late 2020, threaten us with new variants whilst the USofA or the EU or Russia do not.
If the objective is to stop/identify new variants then rationally ALL arrivals need to be subject to whatever regime is set up to deal with the mischief.
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>> In that sense the Scots have got it right.
In your argument, no they havent. And they cant The English border is still open, and can not be closed. Its Rhetoric for local consumption, the same way that absolutely NO rules from the rest of the UK can be used without change, after all thats not independence is it.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 17 Feb 21 at 17:52
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>It looks good in the tabloids as skivers v strivers but the reality is that it penalises
>you for renting privately and living outside of cities with very low rents.
So,
If I claim benefits and want to live somewhere I can't afford I can just rent privately and you'll sort out the extra cash for me?
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>> So,
>>
>> If I claim benefits and want to live somewhere I can't afford I can just
>> rent privately and you'll sort out the extra cash for me?
No. There are limits on what's paid for private rentals based on the 30th centile for market rents in the area concerned.
For a 2 bed in Basingstoke that's £192/week.
A single Father with two kids and paying that per week would be £200+/month down due to the cap.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 17 Feb 21 at 22:05
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Am I being thick here? (It wouldn't be the first time)
The limit a single father with 2 kids could claim for a 2 bed place in Basingstoke is £192/week?
Where does the £200pm come from?
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>> Where does the £200pm come from?
Monthly Universal Credit would comprise an amount for the living expenses of father and the children plus a Housing Element based on £192/week. In old benefit language that's the amount a family in that scenario needs to live on - £1758.
The cap reduces that to £1515.
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>> Monthly Universal Credit would comprise an amount for the living expenses of father and the
>> In old benefit language that's the amount
>> a family in that scenario needs to live on - £1758.
>>
>> The cap reduces that to £1515.
For clarity those are monthly figures. Universal Credit pays monthly by design so as to replicate salary.
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Some numbers on how vaccinations are going world wide
ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
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From the BBC earlier...
"A three-month gap between the two doses of the Oxford-AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine results in higher vaccine efficacy than a six-week gap, a new study suggests.
The research indicates that with three months between the first and second dose there was an overall efficacy of 81%, compared to 55% for a six-week interval.
The first dose offered 76% protection in the three months between doses, according to the University of Oxford research published in The Lancet."
Whether Boris and his advisors are that good or that lucky, who cares, the country is on a roll at the moment.
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Had my first today and I'd have one every week if necessary, certainly wouldn't be unhappy with every 3 months..
No biscuits though.
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Mrs B, born March 58, has been called for hers. Born December 59 I'm still waiting.
Other than perhaps BMI she has no health issue that could move her up the pecking order.
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>> Mrs B, born March 58, has been called for hers. Born December 59 I'm still
>> waiting.
>>
>> Other than perhaps BMI she has no health issue that could move her up the
>> pecking order.
BMI alone wont cut it in the vaccine lottery, its more likely her NHS number is lower than yours in the over 60's pile so hers came out first,
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A BMI over 40 is clinically "extremely obese" and the last of your worries is Covid, you would be suffering from lots of other underlying health conditions.
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At 6ft ish I'd have to be 21 Stone ish to have a BMI of over 40.
Clearly that is significantly over weight, I'm actually 13 stone exactly. So it'd be 160% of my current weight. It is beyond me how people get that over weight.
Why don't they get to, say, 18 stone and think "Well, this isn't going very well, I should stop over eating".
I know, I know, all sorts of illnesses and conditions. But the biggest majority is surely just people who eat far too much and do far too little?
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>>
>> Other than perhaps BMI she has no health issue that could move her up the
>> pecking order.
>>
...it's a brave man that will post that....!
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>> >>
>> >> Other than perhaps BMI she has no health issue that could move her up
>> the
>> >> pecking order.
>> >>
>> ...it's a brave man that will post that....!
Yes I think brompy now has an underlying health issue.
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I had another reminder yesterday. That's two letters and two texts, all of them after I'd actually been jabbed.
Postie handed me the latest one as I was washing the car, and I dropped it on the back seat for later retrieval, having clocked the return postcode on the rear.
I then forgot it until quite a bit later, but ultimately retrieved it expecting a missive from the DVLA (since the postcode was SA99 1DU - and I have a minor query outstanding with them).
Turns out it was a "local" vaccination reminder (from the Notts CCG, not NHS national).
Odd really; given that Swansea are hardly responding to their normal workload, I can't believe they're using them as a mailing house (though I'm not sure that their outward mail is "in-house" any longer). Maybe it simply came from the same (outsourced) mailing house, and they were being "imaginative" with the envelopes and the mailing contract. :-)
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I've got mine next Thursday.
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I see the government are now saying all adults will be offered a vaccination by July several months early than previously announced.
I guess they must be pretty confident on the delivery of vaccines in the next few months
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>> I then forgot it until quite a bit later, but ultimately retrieved it expecting a
>> missive from the DVLA (since the postcode was SA99 1DU - and I have a
>> minor query outstanding with them).
>>
>> Turns out it was a "local" vaccination reminder (from the Notts CCG, not NHS national).
DVLA was known in other government departments for having one of the largest automated mailroom operations in Europe. A former colleague of mine involved setting up a similar, albeit much smaller, operation in her department spent some time there seeing how it worked.
Her interest was the incoming side where mail was opened and scanned but the outgoing side was pretty big too.
Whether it's now contracted or still in house it has the facility to envelope and dispatch tens of thousands of items in a standard format every day at low cost. Using it for covid letters would be an excellent example of cross government co-operation.
The issue of their being insufficient staff on site to process and decide on (eg) vocational licences is completely separate to the small number of folks in mailroom grades needed to supervise machinery.
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>> ...it's a brave man that will post that....!
It's been an issue for her most of her adult life.
She's one of that significant group where eating is comfort thing that goes along with depression. She's actually lost quite a lot in the last few months but her medical records must still show a BMI that's a concern.
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Gaffer went from BMI 30 to 22 in 6 months.
I wouldn't recommend the leukaemia/chemo fast plan though.
Having thighs about as thick as your knees isn't a great look.
Doing well now fortunately.
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From the Telegraph....
In talking down AstraZeneca's success, the EU has sacrificed lives for the integrity of the European Project
Vaccine uptake in the EU is only poor because their leaders spread misinformation about the jabs
Ross Clark
19 February 2021 • 12:39pm
As the EU and its larger member states have just amply demonstrated, there is no problem that cannot be made worse through pig-headed leadership. Last month, when it became clear that Covid vaccines were being rolled out in Britain much faster than across the EU, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen blamed AstraZeneca for not delivering enough shots, and threatened legal action – as well as potentially blocking all vaccine exports from the EU, thereby punishing Britain as well as AstraZeneca.
How is it going now? AstraZeneca has upped production, delivered more doses and announced that it will construct a new factory in Germany to roll out the drug faster. Yet the gap between vaccination in the EU and in Britain grows ever-wider. In Britain, 23.9 per cent of the population has now received at least one dose, with the government achieving its target of offering the vaccine to all over-70s and the most-vulnerable younger groups by the middle of February. And in the EU? Just 3.2 per cent of the population has received a jab. In France and Germany it is 3.4 per cent, and in Slovakia – which is now the furthest-ahead of all EU countries – it is 4.4 per cent.
The problem now, though, is not just the much-criticised EU vaccines procurement programme – although that remains a huge issue. Vaccination-rollout has been hampered by foolish efforts by EU leaders to undermine public faith in the AstraZeneca vaccine. The German magazine Spiegel reported this week figures from Germany’s Robert Koch Institute which show that of 736,000 doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine delivered to Germany, just 64,869 have actually been used. Why so few? People have not been turning up at their vaccination appointments. In France, too, people refusing the vaccine; a website for healthcare workers to book a vaccination this week was reported to have hundreds of slots going begging, while staff at one hospital in Perigueux had written an open letter asking to be given the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines rather than the AstraZeneca one.
This is hardly surprising given their leaders’ efforts to trash the AstraZeneca product. The German government’s vaccine committee pointedly declined to allow the AstraZeneca vaccine to be administered to the over-65s on the grounds that there was not enough data on the efficacy of this group (although the European Medicines Agency has granted it a licence to be used in all ages). In France, President Macron, citing no evidence at all, declared the AstraZeneca vaccine to be ‘quasi ineffective’ in the over-65s.
False claims now abound in France and Germany that the AstraZeneca vaccine has awful side-effects beyond those reported in the trials – something which has been debunked by Germany’s Paul Ehrlich Institute, which has been analysing the rollout of all vaccines. It is true that trial data – as well as real-world evidence – suggests that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are more efficacious than the AstraZeneca one. But the same data show that all three vaccines are very effective, and well above the 50 per cent threshold that regulators considered would make them worthy of approval. Moreover, when you have a raging epidemic, the priority is surely to get as many people vaccinated as soon as possible, not to fuss that one might be a few per cent more efficacious than another.
It wasn’t so long ago that Trump’s White House was seen by many as leading to way in pumping out misinformation on the Covid pandemic, threatening public health in the process. That torch has well and truly been handed to the Elysee Palace.
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And in answer to the obvious question....
"Results demonstrated vaccine efficacy of 76% (CI: 59% to 86%) after a first dose, with protection maintained to the second dose. With an inter-dose interval of 12 weeks or more, vaccine efficacy increased to 82% (CI: 63%, 92%)."
www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2021/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-confirms-protection-against-severe-disease-hospitalisation-and-death-in-the-primary-analysis-of-phase-iii-trials.html
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Interesting bit of a knock from that several countries in east/central europe are buying in Russian vaccines, Hungary and Serbia. I don't think several months ago they'd be looking east for vaccines.
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"From the Telegraph...."
Was anyone surprised to read that report? I certainly wasn’t, but then I spent 28 years of my life working for a major, Europe-based, multinational chemical manufacturer.
"Vaccine uptake in the EU is only poor because their leaders spread misinformation about the jabs."
Whilst the EU leaders have indeed been spreading misinformation for political purposes, it has been falling on the ears of peoples who have already been brainwashed by the green lobby into being highly suspicious of science. The problem now, as described in the article, will be to haul those people back – without admitting to them that they have been purposefully misled.
It’s not difficult to turn the uneducated masses against scientific advancement – whilst the rest of the world has moved on, Europeans have been fed a diet of Frankenstein food stories - and GM technology languishes on the shelf.
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>>already been brainwashed by the green lobby into being highly suspicious of science.
I don't think the green lobby is the problem, where did that come from?
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"where did that come from?"
It came from the post above ...........
"I spent 28 years of my life working for a major, Europe-based, multinational chemical manufacturer."
It's called personal experience.
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>> "From the Telegraph...."
That alone tells us all we need to know.
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>> >> "From the Telegraph...."
>>
>> That alone tells us all we need to know.
>>
That it's factually incorrect?
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>> That it's factually incorrect?
The facts are one thing.
How they're interpreted and reported is another.
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>> >> That it's factually incorrect?
>>
>> The facts are one thing.
>>
>> How they're interpreted and reported is another.
>>
They've put a spin on it? Much like most newspapers.
But you don't need to be a life long reader of the DT to agree that many leaders in the EU have handled this vaccine role out badly and continue to do so.
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>> >> That it's factually incorrect?
>>
>> The facts are one thing.
>>
>> How they're interpreted and reported is another.
You are 100% correct. And the Telegraph in general has an agenda which can quite clearly be seen in that article. That doesn't mean that there is no validity in that article, that there is no illuminating perspective or no informative points, but most definitely one must read it with a weather eye.
However, I would genuinely ask why you don't apply that perspective to articles from The Guardian, or anywhere else for that matter.
It is exactly the same thing.
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This is 'the unbiased truth' that Brompt prefers to read .....
www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/coronavirus-vaccine-delays-brexit-ema-expensive
Has the Grauniad published an update to this story yet?
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I bought the guardian and the telegraph this Saturday as well as the times because I had guests who read those papers. We were all entertained by the chasm between the telegraph and the guardian in particular in the reporting of the same stories. Funnier still when it came to what Borris might and should say this evening. But the clear pro teacher bias (despite the facts and opinion of those far better qualified than your average teacher to comment) in the guardian when it came to whether and when schools should open was worrying.
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>> I bought the guardian and the telegraph this Saturday as well as the times because
>> I had guests who read those papers.
Guests? I hope you reported yourself to the appropriate authorities. If you're not sure which one, just give zippy a shout.
g. But the
>> clear pro teacher bias (despite the facts and opinion of those far better qualified than
>> your average teacher to comment) in the guardian when it came to whether and when
>> schools should open was worrying.
>>
I think teachers are their biggest reader group, bound to appeal to them. The teachers union have probably got various journalists there who can print stuff they leak to them. Mind you, like I've said before the teachers unions would only be happy if the schools were closed completely for about 18 months.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Mon 22 Feb 21 at 08:41
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>> Guests? I hope you reported yourself to the appropriate authorities. If you're not sure which
>> one, just give zippy a shout.
If Peter lives on his own, he is allowed to form a bubble with another household.
We bubble with our son who comes to visit about once a week. We could visit him but he would have to tidy his flat.
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>> It was just a joke.
I did wonder. I'll tweak the sensitivity of the humour detector.
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>> >> It was just a joke.
>>
>> I did wonder. I'll tweak the sensitivity of the humour detector.
The covid lockdown update feature is still in beta pre release testing.
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>>The covid lockdown update feature is still in beta pre release testing.<<
VW released ID3 beta quality material on the public, surprised Boris is not equally cavalier! :)
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".......Mind you, like I've said before the teachers unions would only be happy if the schools were closed completely for about 18 months."
On full pay of course.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Mon 22 Feb 21 at 11:05
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>> However, I would genuinely ask why you don't apply that perspective to articles from The
>> Guardian, or anywhere else for that matter.
What makes you think I not?
Just because I post a link it doesn't mean I'm blind to the Guardian's left/liberal leanings.
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>> However, I would genuinely ask why you don't apply that perspective to articles from
>> The Guardian, or anywhere else for that matter.
>>
>> What makes you think I [do] not?
Because for a smart man your sight and hearing are surprisingly and consistently selective. As is the varying credibility with which you treat reports, articles etc. depending on their stance.
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To get back to the original point*, its pretty clear that that after the appalling way they handled the AZ issue the EU was on the back foot with the populous, and the only way to deflect flack and save face was to rubbish the effectiveness of the Vaccine they say they couldn't get.
Ok maybe its not as effective as the others, but in a situation like this you dont allow any crack to appear in the larger picture vaccination armour, and by so doing they have further screwed themselves in the foot by now having poor take up to go with chaotic supply.
*as for news, people read what fits their own preconceptions.
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Coronavirus Vaccine - Volume 6 - Manatee
