Non-motoring > Brexit Discussion - Volume 91
Thread Author: VxFan Replies: 125

 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - VxFan

IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ

Before discussions start in this thread, I would like to point out that any petty arguments, personal attacks, or any other infringement of house rules, etc. will be deleted where we feel fit from now on.

We will not give notice that we have deleted something. Nor will we enter into discussion why something was deleted. That will also be deleted.

It seems that discussion about Brexit brings out the worst in some people.

Be nice, Play nice, and control your temper. Your co-operation would be appreciated.

620234
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 5 Jan 21 at 10:24
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 90 - Zero
Here we go, more good control

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55530721
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 90 - Rudedog
Probably the reason for the recent increase in postal costs I've experienced, especially from Germany.... I really hope it changes.


 Brexit Discussion - Volume 90 - Manatee
My e-bike, ordered from Germany on 21/12, hasn't come and hasn't even appeared on DHL's tracker, despite being despatched straight away. The only communication I've had was when France closed the Channel and they sent me a message saying it would be delayed.

Two days of stasis just before Christmas followed by public holidays has presumably created a massive backlog. I messaged them on Thursday asking what's happening and haven't heard yet.

Didn't anyone think it was a bad idea to have the transition end on New Year's Eve?
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 90 - Rudedog
I guess any new custom charges won't be applied for items bought before 31/12?

 Brexit Discussion - Volume 90 - Manatee
>> I guess any new custom charges won't be applied for items bought before 31/12?

I suppose DHL might be putting their carriage prices up and I ordered a couple of small items, frame lock and cable, that if treated separately could get tangled in the new VAT arrangement.

I should be safe as I paid by credit card, so I'm hoping the worst case is I get my money back if it's disappeared and isn't replaced.

It wasn't the best time to order but they sent me a 10% off nudge. I wouldn't be riding it much in these temperatures.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 90 - Terry
I agree that new years eve is a daft time for transition to end, particularly when the deal was only signed off a day or two earlier.

But with respect, buying something from the EU knowing that transition would end in 10 days time with no deal then signed, is hardly the actions of the overly cautious!
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 90 - Bromptonaut
>> I agree that new years eve is a daft time for transition to end, particularly
>> when the deal was only signed off a day or two earlier.

31/12/2020 was essentially a political deadline to 'Get Brexit Done'.

It was the final withdrawal date (ie end of transition phase) in the May era's proposed withdrawal agreement. The politicking over May's agreement ate up nearly half of the transition period but Johnson wasn't prepared to extend it. There was a process to do so before 3/06/2020 and no doubt a fudged month or two could have been achieved last month.

Agreement was always going to be last minute. Perhaps last minute when trade and leisure travel are at low ebb was, to some extent, least worst option.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 90 - Manatee

>> But with respect, buying something from the EU knowing that transition would end in 10
>> days time with no deal then signed, is hardly the actions of the overly cautious!

I quite agree, but that nice Boris said everything would get better:)
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 90 - Lygonos
According to an article in FT (paywalled) most of the EU priced shares* that were being dealt in London have been shifted to Amsterdam et al.

Bye bye to that stamp duty stream.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - No FM2R
UK driver has ham sandwiches confiscated at Dutch border

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55622331

Reality begins to bite.....

Somebody better tell Humph he can't take his haggis sandwiches on the road to Italy any more.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - sooty123
Similar to a lot of destinations when I travelling I think, I remember last time I went to the US and other non EU countries I'm pretty sure it was similar.



Of all the changes now post the UK leaving the EU, this sort of thing would be at the bottom of my concerns. I'm sure you could buy sandwiches on the boat that are OK to take into the EU.

I think it's a bit of scraping the bottom of the barrel from the BBC, looks like those stories that they used to publish with concerns about what colour our passport will be.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Manatee
At the moment it seems rather spiteful as we have the same standards. But of course it isn't - just the law, as negotiated by our finest, under Mr Churchill. Sorry, Johnson.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - smokie
SWMBO often has that Border Patrol program one as background noise (the Australian one). The most common offence is food smuggling and people often get fined a few hundred, not least because on their inbound journey they will have signed a declaration that they are not carrying any. Mind you, the amount some carry is ridiculous - whole suitcases of it.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - zippy
>> SWMBO often has that Border Patrol program one as background noise (the Australian one).

When Miss Z few to New Zealand for her elective, she had a stopover in Australia. (She spent some time there with SWMBO’s) uncle who lives in Sydney on the way back.)

Anyway, she had got on the outbound flight just after one of her D of E treks and stowed her boots muddy.

The lady at Austrailian customs was very nice about it apparently, having said no foreign mud allowed, helped her clean them off whilst chatting about what she was doing.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - sooty123
Mind you, the amount some carry is ridiculous - whole suitcases of
>> it.
>>

I know which show you mean, some of them have bin bags full of food.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - tyrednemotional
>> I'm sure you could buy sandwiches on
>> the boat that are OK to take into the EU.
>>

...you can't.

There is separate legislation covering food on board means of "international travel". It allows supplies for crew and passengers to cross borders into the EU on the means of transport, but only as long as it is not unloaded within the EU.

So, planes, trains and boats can carry supplies for use on board, but if they are unloaded they will be treated the same as any other "ham sandwich".

(Much discussion on motorhome forums, since it is common to carry at least a day or so's supplies into the EU - the EU directives are pretty clear).
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Kevin
>(Much discussion on motorhome forums,..)

A man calls the cops to report his wife missing and the cops send an officer to take a statement:

Husband: My wife is missing. She went shopping yesterday and has not come home!
Officer: Age?
Husband: I'm not sure. Somewhere between 50 and 60. We don't do birthdays.
Officer: Height?
Husband: I'm not sure. A little over five-feet tall.
Officer: Weight?
Husband: Don't know. Not slim, not really fat.
Officer: Color of eyes?
Husband: Sort of brown I think.
Officer: Color of hair?
Husband: Changes a couple times a year. Maybe dark brown now. I can't remember.
Officer: What was she wearing?
Husband: Could have been pants, or maybe a skirt or shorts. I don't know exactly.
Officer: What kind of car did she go in?
Husband: She went in my motorhome.
Officer: What kind of motorhome was it?
Husband: A HYMER B544 registered July 2019, Pearlescent white with beige leather, Fiat 2.8 jtd manual. 180 watt solar panels, Hab air con, refillable gas bottles, electric steps, led lights, rear camera, fridge freezer, Avtec pull out TV, electric windows, blown heating, superb shower...

At this point the husband started choking up.

Officer: Take it easy Mr TnE. We'll find your motorhome!
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - tyrednemotional
...it was a "ute" when I last heard it. ;-)
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - sooty123
I stand corrected, I can't say I looked into the legislation. It was more short hand for, suitable food purchased at point suitable close to the point of entry.



General point, not aimed at anyone.

Looking at that twitter post that the article came from, it's an interesting insight into people who hold strongly held beliefs on this issue. It's almost a total role reversal from the previous roughly 20 years. Issues like bendy bananas, food sold by the pound, colour of passports etc that were advanced by those who wanted to change the status quo highlighted them as everyday examples of a bigger issues and used as examples of what we've lost. . Of sorts they were a political insurgency. Their arguments were counted (by and large) by those who wish to remain as too small to worry about, overblown, irrelevant or factually incorrect.

Now those positions have been reversed, issues like this are advanced in the same way as those who wished to leave and their arguments are counted as too small to worry about, overblown, irrelevant or factually incorrect by those who are now arguing for the status quo.

Like I said interesting insight into those with strongly held views on this. I wonder if any of them are self aware to see it?
Last edited by: sooty123 on Tue 12 Jan 21 at 09:14
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - No FM2R

>> Looking at that twitter post that the article came from, it's an interesting insight into
>> people who hold strongly held beliefs on this issue. .................

I just went back and did that. Firstly I think the most striking thing is the low intelligence of many of the contributors. Some of them seem simply not to understand, others talk of saving them in WWII and others talk of revenge.

It's as if people didn't really understand what being a separate country was going to be like or how it was going to affect them on a simple, day to day level. It's going to be a proper PITA regular crossers. It's gone from looking for drugs and illegal immigrants to checking for ham sandwiches.

If the EU hadn't had ambitions of a comfortable superstate and if the British had put the right amount of effort into the EU over the previous 20 years we could have kept all the trade agreements and free movement and just dumped all the really problematic stuff.

One can only hope that future trade agreements will take us back to a Common Market type agreement yet steer clear of the other crap.

>>Like I said interesting insight into those with strongly held views on this. I wonder if any of them are self aware to see it?

Most people's strongly held views are driven by their day to day lives. They justify their opinions by how much it inconveniences them as they experience it or simply annoys them as they hear about it. They don't really seek to legitimise their position beyond that or see any need to do so.

Typically most people hang around with similar people leading similar lives and who thus have similar frustrations, and so reinforce each others' thoughts. People seek out echo chambers.

Consequently their views are rarely challenged. And, since the media targets groups of similar people, if they choose their outlet according to their position then they'll encounter a whole bunch of written or spoken reinforcement.

Very few people challenge or question their own position or are willing for someone else to do it to them.

 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Zero
>> UK driver has ham sandwiches confiscated at Dutch border
>>
>> www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55622331

Should have had sarnies with Edam shoudnt he.


Theres a point, there is clearly money to be made. I'll set up a stall down at Dover selling BR Travellers Fare cheese or ham sarnies. Lord knows what was in them but everyone knows it wasnt ham or cheese.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - tyrednemotional
I have an engineering drawing of a BR ham sandwich, on official BR drawing office paper.

It specifies, amongst other things, the quality of the margarine (not butter) to be used, the radius of the "apex" on the bread triangle, and the thickness of the filling down to the nearest micron.

;-)
Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Tue 12 Jan 21 at 08:50
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Zero
>> I have an engineering drawing of a BR ham sandwich, on official BR drawing office
>> paper.
>>
>> It specifies, amongst other things, the quality of the margarine (not butter) to be used,
>> the radius of the "apex" on the bread triangle, and the thickness of the filling
>> down to the nearest micron.
>>
>> ;-)

If you can convert that into an STL format, I could start turning them out on a 3D printer.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - tyrednemotional
>>
>> If you can convert that into an STL format, I could start turning them out
>> on a 3D printer.
>>

it's not as if anyone would notice the difference......

It dates from 1972, and amongst other things carries the words "All welding to be carried out in conformance to BR specification 528".

(The change from butter to margarine was an "in service" update).
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Haywain
"UK driver has ham sandwiches confiscated at Dutch border"

Would the same thing happen to a driver arriving in the UK from Europe? Or, are those drivers so convinced of the superiority of British food that they don't feel the need to bring any with them?

I should add that many countries have this sort of ruling ........ try arriving at Hobart with a long-forgotten apple core in the bottom of your rucksack - you will instantly garner the undivided attention of a small, friendly, waggy-tailed doggy.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - PeterS
>> I should add that many countries have this sort of ruling ........ try arriving at
>> Hobart with a long-forgotten apple core in the bottom of your rucksack - you will
>> instantly garner the undivided attention of a small, friendly, waggy-tailed doggy.

We seem to be taking a more grown up approach...the following was updated late December, though published in 2013, so probably reflects the post brexit world:

www.gov.uk/guidance/personal-food-plant-and-animal-product-imports

We still allow meat, dairy and plants in from EU countries but nor from elsewhere.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 13 Jan 21 at 13:53
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Bromptonaut
>> We still allow meat, dairy and plants in from EU countries but nor from elsewhere.

I should be mightily disappointed not to be allowed to bring back a week's shopping plus cheese etc back from France. I keep meaning to try Cheval but what's on the shelf in France seems mostly to be imported from Uruguay.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - sooty123
I keep meaning to try Cheval but what's on
>> the shelf in France seems mostly to be imported from Uruguay.
>>

Try Irish lasagne, same difference.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - zippy
>>Cheval

Can be a mare to digest.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - No FM2R
>>I should add that many countries have this sort of ruling ........

Not only the US itself, but also between States. I got told off between California & Nevada one time for carrying fruit.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - legacylad
I’ve never been stopped at any Stateline. Just as well then.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Ambo
My personal experiences of the new order so far: my French pensions payments have not been affected but my Canon inks order has been delayed by two weeks due to documentation problems - it turns out they are shipped from a Dutch depot.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Manatee
It's now over 3 weeks since I ordered by bike, and neither of two separate dispatches has actually appeared on the tracking yet beyond being issued a reference number.

I sent them a message around 10 days ago and received a reply this week which was "have you your bike received yet?"

.*******
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - tyrednemotional
...for you, Tommy, the bike is over!........ ;-)
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Runfer D'Hills
I guess you feel like you're being taken for a ride?
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Manatee
>> ...for you, Tommy, the bike is over!........ ;-)
>>

I made up the syntax, their English was actually a bit better than that, but you understood:)
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - tyrednemotional
...I speak enough German to get by (in Germany), at least once I get properly "into gear". Understanding is rather easier than responding, however.

And generally, I find the use of German is appreciated, even to the extent of it very politely (and quite unbelievably) being complimented.

I have to admit, however, that the ability across Europe many of its citizens' to converse adequately in English puts us, as a nation, very much to shame.

(Could of worded that last sentence better!)
Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Fri 15 Jan 21 at 14:39
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Runfer D'Hills
A piece of trivia I know, but back when the Brexit vote was a fresh thing in our minds, we had a straw poll around the office as to which way people had voted. A thing that emerged was that there was a 100% correlation between leave voters and those who who didn't speak any other European language, and a similar link between those who voted remain and their ability to speak at least one other European language.


 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - sooty123
>> A piece of trivia I know, but back when the Brexit vote was a fresh
>> thing in our minds, we had a straw poll around the office as to which
>> way people had voted. A thing that emerged was that there was a 100% correlation
>> between leave voters and those who who didn't speak any other European language, and a
>> similar link between those who voted remain and their ability to speak at least one
>> other European language.

I think that's quite interesting that people asked and answered the question. I wouldn't have the slightest clue for the majority of people I work with.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Runfer D'Hills

>> I think that's quite interesting that people asked and answered the question. I wouldn't have
>> the slightest clue for the majority of people I work with.

We have ( well, had, it's become a bit tricky of late ) a lot of EU customers and dealings with them both in writing and on the phone, so quite pertinent to us.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - sooty123
>
>> We have ( well, had, it's become a bit tricky of late ) a lot
>> of EU customers and dealings with them both in writing and on the phone, so
>> quite pertinent to us.
>>

No doubt, bit of a no go area at our place mind. You might say it's a bit of a 'don't ask don't tell' culture when it comes to voting and politics.

Mind you it was like that growing up, who you voted for or even if you voted at all was your business and nobody else's. So I guess I've never known anything else.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - No FM2R
>>And generally, I find the use of German is appreciated

I speak virtually no German, beyond ordering beer, but I'm ok in Portuguese and Spanish and can get by in Italian. I find the level of friendly service I receive is vastly higher than if I took the typical approach of speaking slowly, loudly with that weird accent Brits use when conversing with foreigners that sort of sounds like Tarzan communicating with a particularly stupid ape.

The secret is, of course, to simply not care about making mistakes and sounding stupid. Only the Brits are too embarrassed to try.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - CGNorwich
“The secret is, of course, to simply not care about making mistakes and sounding stupid. Only the Brits are too embarrassed to try.“

Unfortunately it’s not helped by the fact that the French tend to me filled with mirth at our attempts to converse in their language and assume a pained expression and cannot help correcting you whenever you try.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Zero

>> Unfortunately it’s not helped by the fact that the French tend to me filled with
>> mirth at our attempts to converse in their language and assume a pained expression and
>> cannot help correcting you whenever you try.

Throw this little phrase in then. Vous mangez du fromage, abandonnez le singe see if they correct that.

 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - tyrednemotional
>> Unfortunately it’s not helped by the fact that the French tend to me filled with
>> mirth at our attempts to converse in their language and assume a pained expression and
>> cannot help correcting you whenever you try.
>>

Myself and SWMBO visited a very quiet bar in Heidelburg one lunchtime, and entirely successfully ordered a drink and a meal each in German, with a bit of banter. It was a pleasant place to sit, and so we returned in the evening after a long walk around the town.

...it was an elastic walls job at night. The place was heaving, and the waiters weren't waiting for orders, simply filling a tray and looking for takers. Approached by a young Herr, I said "Ein großes und ein kleines Bier bitte". To which came the emphatic response, Ve haff only von size!

That's me identified and told, then! :-(

(And when I used to go out with friends who lived in Frankfurt, they would order in German and be replied to in English. I would order in German, and be replied to in German, with that look that said "I know you're not quite German, but I can't pin you down"). :-)
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - No FM2R
>> it's not helped by the fact that the French tend to me filled with mirth at our attempts to converse in their language

I've heard that a lot, I've never experienced it though. I don't know why that would be other than the fact that it would be very unusual for me to be a tourist there and thus very rarely would I go to a tourist place.

Also, I realise as I write, that when I am in France I am usually with French people which probably makes a difference.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - sooty123
Me neither in either tourist or non tourist areas.


>> I've heard that a lot, I've never experienced it though.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Zero

>> I have to admit, however, that the ability across Europe many of its citizens' to
>> converse adequately in English puts us, as a nation, very much to shame.

As American is the nearest thing to a universal language, we as a nation have never been required to learn it
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Manatee
What got my last paragraph zapped in the post above was a reference to a certain king who showed his piety by demonstrating that even he couldn't hold back the tide. I'll have to revert to the unfashionable spelling.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - bathtub tom
I was visiting a relly in a German garrison town. A man came up to me and slowly and loudly asked in plummy English if I knew where something or other was. I carefully listened to every word before replying "No idea mate, I only arrived here five minutes ago". His face was a picture and I suspect he was thinking wait 'til I see you in barracks.

The relly took me to Overloon tank museum, in the cafe he asked for a couple of drinks and was completely ignored. It was only when I spoke to him in English the staff apologised and explained they thought we were Germans!
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - zippy
My German is dreadful, but I try and have been told by those I worked with in Germany that they would prefer to speak English but that they appreciated the danke and bitte very much and being polite.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - No FM2R
In our group there are two natural Portuguese speakers, two French, a Swede and a German and the rest either English or Spanish speakers.

A couple speak little or no Spanish, a couple who speak little or no English and everybody else has at least conversational ability in more than one language .

Consequently the languages wander all over the place and confuses the crap out of bar and wait staff.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Runfer D'Hills
I suppose I'm competent in German, adequate in French, a bit sketchy in Italian and at best laughable in Spanish and Portugese. But, as others have said, I've always found that people appreciate you at least trying to do them the courtesy of using the language of the country you're in.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - No FM2R
>>I've always found that people appreciate you at least trying to do them the courtesy of using the language of the country you're in.

I *always* thank anybody who speaks English with me for doing so. And it's often the most surprising of people.

The concierge in apartment building a friend lives in is about 60, not the most educated of people and speaks horrible English. But he's very proud of it and insists on speaking it. If he gets stuck he'll ask me in Spanish how to say something, and then insist on saying it. Bless him.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Zero
I am pretty good with German,and Italian, ok-ish in Spanish, can order food and drink of various types for us both in France without getting fag ash in my Moules n Frittes and gob in my Bier Blanc (know all my French driving signs and warnings) Similar in Holland, useless with Portuguese.

 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - tyrednemotional
>>
>> Consequently the languages wander all over the place and confuses the crap out of bar
>> and wait staff.
>>

...that's just the beer talking. Happens in most drinking establishments as the evening wears on.....
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - No FM2R
A few drinks and I'm effluent in most languages.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Runfer D'Hills
Erm, drink a lot then do you?

;-)))
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Terry
Driving through France on holiday many years ago, wife asked the very obvious question - "why are so many villages called RAPPEL"
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Zero
>> Driving through France on holiday many years ago, wife asked the very obvious question -
>> "why are so many villages called RAPPEL"

They are twinned with Ausfahrt in Germany.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - No FM2R
& Salida in Spain.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - tyrednemotional
....and Deutsche Post get confused by towns that have so many streets called Einbahnstraße,,,,
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Lygonos
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55669168

And they thought somehow they'd get better access? Less restrictions? A more profitable scenario?

What's Brexitese for schadenfreude?
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - No FM2R
And you know the source of their catch problems?

Under the EU....

Scottish boats could:

1) catch quota that has been allocated to the Scottish industry
2) lease quota from other producers
3) swap quotas of fish that we have and still need but other countries want more of
4) transport their catch without restriction to the EU

Outside the EU

Scottish boats can:

1) catch the increased quota that has been allocated to the Scottish industry

Swapping quotas and quota leasing from the EU countries are no longer possible (one not allowed the other too expensive). The border/customs now in place isn't working very well.


"The Scottish Fishermen's Federation, which campaigned to leave the EU, also said the Brexit trade deal was the worst of both worlds for the industry"

Oh well done chaps. Though I am a little confused - Didn't that b***** awful woman say that all of Scotland wanted to stay in the EU and being forced out was a disgrace?
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - PeterS
>>
>> Oh well done chaps. Though I am a little confused - Didn't that b***** awful
>> woman say that all of Scotland wanted to stay in the EU and being forced
>> out was a disgrace?
>>

She’s even named after a fish...but maybe that’s why her position is the opposite of the fishermen ;)

I haven’t heard similar issues with fisherman down here in the south and Cornwall offloading their fish to France and Spain though. But then I guess there are fewer fisherman down here and the export markets are bigger, so if they have got increased quotas it’s easier to shift the fish? Or perhaps we just eat more fish down here :)
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Bromptonaut
>> I haven’t heard similar issues with fisherman down here in the south and Cornwall offloading
>> their fish to France and Spain though. But then I guess there are fewer fisherman
>> down here and the export markets are bigger, so if they have got increased quotas
>> it’s easier to shift the fish? Or perhaps we just eat more fish down here

I've no real idea what they catch in the Southwest or what proportion goes abroad though I recently saw a 'fly on the rigging' documentary suggesting Cuttlefish was caught for export.

My impression is that the Scottish fisherman have found a niche selling fresh, and in some cases live, shellfish to France. During the Single Market they'd got the obviously time critical transport down to a T.

Add in new paperwork, which one of them described as a reversion to 30 years ago, requiring vets to examine and certify at least samples of the product and then probable delays in Kent approaching the ports and the system is out of kilter.

The guy I heard interviewed thought they'd get better once the system bedded down but that the alternative was air freight which of course shifts the cost and competitiveness of the end product.

 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Duncan
>>
>> Add in new paperwork, which one of them described as a reversion to 30 years
>> ago, requiring vets to examine and certify at least samples of the product and then
>> probable delays in Kent approaching the ports and the system is out of kilter.
>>
>> The guy I heard interviewed thought they'd get better once the system bedded down but
>> that the alternative was air freight which of course shifts the cost and competitiveness of
>> the end product.

We've taken back control.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Zero

>> We've taken back control.

We have added our bureaucracy on top of the Eu's. The civil service must be delighted.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Rudedog
I'm sure I heard the same piece on the business news early in the morning..

Also caught part the recent Rick Stein Cornwall programme where he was talking to the Cornish fishermen, I guess this must have been filmed sometime last year (or before) but the common theme seemed to be they couldn't wait as it would mean all of the fishing quoters coming back to them, no fishing in British waters and an opportunity to control the supply of the catch (?better prices).... obviously that's the one thing that doesn't seemed to have come true, wonder what they would say now?

 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - smokie
Was it here that someone said they sold their quotes to foreign fleets some years back and made handsome profits and seemed to be expecting to be gifted them back?
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Bromptonaut
>> Was it here that someone said they sold their quotes to foreign fleets some years
>> back and made handsome profits and seemed to be expecting to be gifted them back?

I've certainly read more than once that when EU fishing regulations and quotas came in a lot of British fishermen sold their allocation to Dutch, Danish or French boats and retired on the proceeds. I believe there was a similar trade in milk quota where smaller farmers sold their quota but then complained of being forced out of the business and having to sell their milk cows for slaughter.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Zero
>> Was it here that someone said they sold their quotes to foreign fleets some years
>> back and made handsome profits and seemed to be expecting to be gifted them back?

Yes and at the time it made good business sense, the market for the warmer inshore fish had died in the UK, but was buoyant in the EU.

Now we are in the situation where we have control of the fishing grounds, but no fleet to catch those fish and no market to sell them in.

And this was the cornerstone headline benefit of getting back control. Utterly kin pathetic.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 16 Jan 21 at 13:12
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Lygonos
>>Didn't that b***** awful woman say that all of Scotland wanted to stay in the EU and being forced out was a disgrace?

The Fish federation didn't have any votes of course.

The populace who did voted 62:38 overall, with no region voting leave.

But I know you know that.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - zippy
>>The populace who did voted 62:38 overall, with no region voting leave.
>>
>> But I know you know that.
>>

So the Doctor gets the dose right, it wasn’t it 52:48 overall? :-)

 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Bromptonaut
>> So the Doctor gets the dose right, it wasn’t it 52:48 overall? :-)

Don't forget he's a Scottish Doctor.......
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - No FM2R
>>But I know you know that.

And I know that you know that I know that.

But sometimes I just can't help myself. It's like an illness.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Zero
>> >>But I know you know that.
>>
>> And I know that you know that I know that.

But thats known known. We know that we know you know. What about your known unknowns. That is to say, things that we now know we don't know. Lord above knows your unknown unknowns. - things we do not know we don't know.’
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - smokie
I don't wanna know!!
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - smokie
Inexplicably reminded of this from Vicar of Dibley

www.youtube.com/watch?v=37ficiqoE6U



(I only found out at Christmas that Emma Chambers, who plays Alice, died a few years back...)
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Haywain
"What's Brexitese for schadenfreude?"

Epicaricacy, dear boy.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - No FM2R
This is like Reader's Digest around here, that's another new word that I've learned.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Lygonos
Likewise: thanks HW!
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - legacylad
>> This is like Reader's Digest around here, that's another new word that I've learned.
>>
I always thought it was a French corner shop where you bought Gitanes and Loto tickets. You live n learn.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - legacylad
I read somewhere on the BBC website that Scottish fishermen weren’t very happy about the red tape post Brexit. Unexpected delays in delivering their product to market, spoiled catches etc. Am I wrong but weren’t they quite vociferous in voting for Brexit, or was that the English fishermen.
Selfish I know, but provided my very occasional fish n chips don’t increase in price I don’t give a stuff.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - No FM2R
A quote from one of the Cornish fishermen was something like;

"This is ridiculous, it's like we've gone back 30 years".

If I was the interviewer, I'd have had to say something.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Terry
They wanted to "take back control" of UK fishing areas. Understandable.

But in their enthusiasm they ignored the risks and possible fallout - getting inevitable new paperwork in order, and reaction from French and Spanish fishermen whose living has now been compromised.

Problems may be short term and capable of early resolution, or they may have shot themselves in the foot. Time will tell. Not much sympathy!

 Nissan are staying - smokie
They are happy with the BREXIT deal

www.bbc.com/news/business-55757930
 Nissan are staying - legacylad
Proves me wrong. I thought they’d be leafing.
 Nissan are staying - Clk Sec
Duly noted. Thanks, Smokie.
Last edited by: Clk Sec on Fri 22 Jan 21 at 08:49
 Nissan are staying - zippy
That’s just the cherry on the cake. What a sunny outlook.
 Nissan are staying - CGNorwich
They’re just in it for the cash guys.




Sorry:-)
 Nissan are staying - tyrednemotional
....are they going to build only for the home market, or will they be sending bluebirds over the white cliffs of Dover?.....
 Nissan are staying - Zero
Whats 10 x 24?
 Nissan are staying - Dog
>>Whats 10 x 24?

That Stanza good chance of being the Datsun model I had back in the 70's.
 Nissan are staying - Runfer D'Hills
Ok I'll bite, it's 240 Z...
 Nissan are staying - Bromptonaut
Or 24oz as auto-correct suggests.
 Nissan are staying - Runfer D'Hills
Blimey, wouldn't have had you down as an imperialist Bromp...
;-)
 Nissan are staying - Zero
>> Ok I'll bite, it's 240 Z...

Ker tisch
 Nissan are staying - VxFan
>> What a sunny outlook.

I thought it was raining Datsun cogs?
 Nissan are staying - Dog
Best not to rest on their Laurels though.
 Nissan are staying - Terry
You have to larf, it's all a big juke.
 Nissan are staying - VxFan
I can see even more jokes in the Skyline.
 Nissan are staying - Zero
More bluebirds over the white cliffs of dover?
 Nissan are staying - bathtub tom
How many more puns? 120? why?
 Nissan are staying - Runfer D'Hills
Dats un awful joke.
 Nissan are staying - smokie
Nissans customer service is only available by micraphone.
Last edited by: smokie on Fri 22 Jan 21 at 15:37
 Nissan are staying - zippy
>> Nissans customer service is only available by micraphone.
>>

Yes, but it's a primera service.
 Nissan are staying - smokie
Not if you inspect it under the micrascope it isn't
 Nissan are staying - Bromptonaut
>> Dats un awful joke.

Or an awful juke?
 Nissan are staying - Runfer D'Hills
I can't like Jukes. But I can't say why. They just annoy me. Which is of course irrational. I know they're very popular, but so is Lorraine Kelly and she annoys me too.


;-)
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Fri 22 Jan 21 at 17:26
 Nissan are staying - Rudedog
Me too... I call them the Puke, plagues of them all in that rusty red colour.

 Nissan are staying - PeterS
Nothing more of Note I suspect...
 Nissan are staying - smokie
Nope, let's give these puns a micrawave goodbye.


 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - No FM2R
Day after day we have to tolerate the BBC and other media trotting out more whining stories about how difficult it is to export to the EU, or import from the EU and then we listen to soundbites from business owners who I am surprised can tie their own shoelaces.

It is different trading internationally than domestically, and to all intents and purposes the EU previously counted as internal. It's different? WTF did you expect?

If you voted Brexit, GTF over yourself, you asked for this and so I assume you knew what you asked for and planned for what was coming..

If you voted Remain, then presumably you did that being aware of the consequences Brexit would bring and thus have had years to prepare so get over yourself and get on with it..

If you didn't vote then get over yourself, next time pay attention.

It is no more or less difficult than trading with any foreign country. You are simply dealing with matters that everybody else in the world shipping to the EU has been dealing with for years.

Business better find out a way of making it work, be they UK or EU, because the customers will. At the moment you're all dumping the problems on the consumers. Well beware, because the companies and businesses who make it work will put you out of business.

What a bunch of b***** princesses.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - zippy
>> Day after day we have to tolerate the BBC and other media trotting out more
>> whining stories about how difficult it is to export to the EU, or import from
>> the EU and then we listen to soundbites from business owners who I am surprised
>> can tie their own shoelaces.
>>
>> What a bunch of b***** princesses.
>>

I have a number of clients that were well aware of the rule changes and have set up processes to cope but then their goods still end up getting held at customs in France, Italy etc for the most stupid of reasons.

One client manufactures add-ons for CNC equipment. They sent a new control unit to a customer in Europe and it was held up. It was correctly described as an electronic CNC control unit which is accepted around the world but was rejected by customs in Italy because they said it should be classed as a computer. The end customer doesn't want the hassle of parts being held up so will use EU suppliers for the items in the future.
Last edited by: zippy on Sun 24 Jan 21 at 16:14
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Bromptonaut
I suspect that big business will find ways through. It might be getting the paperwork right or it might be cutting the UK out of the supply chain.

More concerned for smaller scale businesses, perhaps set up in the 30 years we were in the Single Market, who trade solely with EU so never needed to get to grips with paperwork.

Then there's the fishermen and the exporters of meat and cheese going off in transport. There is though a certain schadenfreude about those who enthusiastically voted for out being caught

 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - No FM2R
>>More concerned for smaller scale businesses, perhaps set up in the 30 years we were in the Single Market, who trade solely with EU so never needed to get to grips with paperwork.

It's tough on them to an extent, but FFS, it's not beyond the wit of many to use some of the intervening 4 years to ask. Though the Government [useless game-playing gits] could have been a great deal more assistance, a great deal earlier without a shadow of a doubt.

As for fisherman, I couldn't give a damn. A bunch of idiots akin to Longbridge workers. Got everything they've begged for over such a long period.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 24 Jan 21 at 16:45
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - No FM2R
>>It was correctly described as an electronic CNC control unit which is accepted around the world but was rejected by customs in Italy because they said it should be classed as a computer

Well your client is a dumbarse for making an assumption. I used to deal with exports and rule 1 is that you find out about the requirements of an individual country, not make a wild a*** guess based on "well it's ok for everyone else"

It may be a "stupid" reason, but the real idiot is the one who didn't check and who will eventually get beaten out by people who do

It's called business. And Business 101 at that.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - zippy
>> It's called business. And Business 101 at that.

Actually they checked, their freight forwarder checked as well. The device is unusable as a "computer" in that it's electronics are not programmable. It was correctly described. Customs were just being a***s.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 25 Jan 21 at 02:10
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - No FM2R
Well, they must feel blessed by their own innocence.

Sadly for them though, they will be beaten out unfairly by nasty mean people who achieve the desired result and give the victimised feelings of innocence a miss.

Clearly they should also punish and perhaps change their freight forwarder. This are not organisations paid to be victims, they are people paid for achieving delivery. They failed. Hopefully next time they'll put some effort in.

The customer is not paying for someone to have really really good excuses. They are paying for delivery. If this company is not capable of doing that, whoever they choose to blame, then they will fail.


Honestly, this is basic business.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - zippy
One doesn't expect an supposedly impartial official to stick his foot out and trip you up just for the sake of it, which seems to be happening in this case.

It's akin to sending a football and the customs official saying no, its an air container used for seating.

The firm is good at what they do and don't have issues with other countries around the world and other countries in Europe.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - No FM2R
>> One doesn't expect an supposedly impartial official to stick his foot out and trip you
>> up just for the sake of it, which seems to be happening in this case.

I may not expect it, but I absolutely check that it won't happen. That's how one gets a reputation as a reliable supplier.

Perhaps they should advertise as "reliable deliveries as long as everybody is nice and does their job the way we expect but if they don't it's not our fault".

>> The firm is good at what they do and don't have issues with other countries
>> around the world and other countries in Europe.

Well no, they're not, are they. If I wanted to contract a delivery in Italy I would do better to choose someone else.

Which is what will happen.

I speak as a person who used to export computers to Greece. Had I relied on being able to use the term "it's not my fault' I guess it wouldn't have gone well.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Zero
Puppy is now 5 months and has been upgraded to a larger cage indoors, one that folds up for use in the caravan.
Ebay supplied the goods cheaply

So her old transit box is now up on the bay for sale. Checking the manufacturers website for specs I find:

We are sorry to inform you that due to Brexit shipping to the UK is unavailable until further notice.

So, that comment goes on ebay listing description, and I doubled the starting price.

Brexit? love it to bits.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - Terry
The rules for trade with the EU have changed.

We knew this would happen a year ago - even if the detail requirements were available far too late and seem to have some problems embedded. The latter can be fixed over the next few months if required.

However we have imported and exported goods to all other parts of the world fairly seamlessly for decades. We made sure we got the paperwork and processes right.

Expecting customs officials to simply use a bit of judgement and let small deficiencies slip through is naive. The sooner importers and exporters are properly compliant with the rules, the sooner any problems will disappear.

In any event any change (Brexit or others) will force businesses to evolve accordingly.

If trade in small value goods (say <£250) is inhibited by the new customs rules it will ecourage change to distribution networks, locus of manufacturing, etc. Changes will emerge over the next year, not immediately, and should present opportunities as well as threats.
 Brexit Discussion - Volume 91 - PeterS
A lot of people in the press, either deliberately or through lack of knowledge are confusing two things I think.

(1) On January 1 we left the EU

(2) On January 1 the EU was supposed to introduce wholesale reform to the way VAT was treated for all business to consumer purchases from outside the EU. We were applying the same changes.

The second point above was part of package of measures to targeted at the likes of Amazon and eBay, to make them the tax collector rather than supplier. It meant that all non EU purchases would be subject to VAT, where previously a €150 exemption existed. It also ensured that all shipments into the EU that should have duty applied were caught, whereas previously many (most?) small purchases slipped under the radar. It was accompanied by the roll-out of a single EU VAT return and a One Stop Shop approach requiring VAT registration in just one EU country. It makes the platform responsible not the supplier. The supplier is still responsible for all product quality matters.

Howeve, due to COVID the EU has delayed their changes until July. I expect it’ll be pushed back further. We however ploughed on, reasonably given that we needed to change things anyway.

The net result is that B2C exporters from the EU assumed they’d have until July to implement the changes, not realising (or not realising the impact of) imports into the U.K. would be subject to the new rules from January. And in return B2C exporters from the U.K. (or at least those who’d given it any thought...) assumed they’d be able to use the One Stop Shop legislation to just register in one EU country for VAT.

That’s my take on it. Of course both in the U.K. and EU far too many companies have not done enough preparation and that’s confusing matters even more

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