Non-motoring > Dealing with condensation	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: smokie	Replies: 27

New Mon 4 Jan 21 13:39   Dealing with condensation - smokie

Daughter's house in Birmingham is probably about 30s terrace. It had been extended downstairs before she bought it to include a loo, which is on the back corner and is fully tiled. It has no heating and no extractor. It's sort of off the kitchen. She said the walls are absolutely dripping at the moment, and is really cold, so was asking about how easy it'd be to put a rad in. The boiler is the other side of a wall so possibly not so bad, depends where the CH piping goes I said. But I'm not sure that is the answer - would she do better spending on better extraction/circulation? Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 4 Jan 21 13:46   Dealing with condensation - Bromptonaut

Ventilation alone would probably help in the short term. Is there a window that can be cracked open, can the loo door be left ajar when the smallest room is not occupied? A bit of heat would be good though. A small rad as suggested? If not how about some sort of fan heater timed with the light (like a run on extractor)?. What's the construction/insulation situation? Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 4 Jan 21 13:46   Dealing with condensation - No FM2R

It's not an either / or. If it's cold it needs heating. If it's damp it needs ventilation. Adding a radiator is not necessarily so easy, it's not like tapping in an electrical spur. One has to consider how the entire circuit(s) flows. If it is small and insulated, perhaps an electrically heated towel rail would be sufficient? Still need to put a fan in though, especially as it's a toilet. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 4 Jan 21 14:37   Dealing with condensation - Zero

>> It's not an either / or. But it can only show if its both. > The old part of my 1930's bungalow has no cavity wall, simply double skin bricks. The North facing corner (ie two external walls) is very prone to damp if its cold. The answer everyone has found that works is to install low powered (ie 60 watts) "cupboard heaters" near floor level. They promote a circulation of warmer air up the wall. www.amazon.co.uk/Hyco-TH02B-Sahara-Tubular-Heater/dp/B07NHY5W4T and/or line the walls with this. uk.rs-online.com/web/p/thermal-insulation/7248906 Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 4 Jan 21 15:12   Dealing with condensation - smokie

First I should have added she has to live on a bit of a budget - partner has been furloughed more or less since March. Thanks for comments so far, all noted - I've suggested she leave the window open a crack to get some airflow. There's no power into the room but I'll ask her to look what's in the next room to guess how easily she could tap in. That might be easier than adding a rad/towel rail to the CH, as you suggest Mark. My neighbour plumber added one here on the wall outside the boiler cupboard last year but it isn't in the CH circuit and is on whenever the boiler fires up, which is fine for what I want but probably wouldn't be for her (or maybe it would be...?!?!?). I think she needs a plumber and an electrician to take a look really as they'd come up with the best solution (you'd hope so anyway!) along with an idea of cost. Also get someone to give her an idea of what an extractor (or just a vent) would cost (keeping the window open is cheapest but she'd be reluctant as it's not a massively secure area). Those tubes Zero - just on one wall or on as many as poss? Last edited by: smokie on Mon 4 Jan 21 at 15:23 Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 4 Jan 21 15:29   Dealing with condensation - No FM2R

>>(keeping the window open is cheapest but she'd be reluctant as it's not a massively secure area). Get a glazier to cut her a hole in the window and put a small manual vent in it. It won't need more than that if you're also going to put some level of heat in there. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 4 Jan 21 15:34   Dealing with condensation - maltrap

Probably does need both heating & ventilation, i'd start with heating. Does you neighbor/plumber live far from your daughter, he might fit a small radiator in there, the parts would be about £50. Ventilation is a bit trickier an extractor fan with timer connected to the lighting circuit probably one way of doing it, but probably expensive and complicated. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 4 Jan 21 16:00   Dealing with condensation - smokie

Yep we're 120 miles from her unfortunately.... Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 5 Jan 21 15:41   Dealing with condensation - maltrap

Why not consder an electric heated towel rail. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 5 Jan 21 16:35   Dealing with condensation - smokie

That'll be one of the options. From responses here I'm coming to the conclusion that it needs at least some draught as well as heat. The solution is unlikely to be a perfect one as she has limited funds. Someone below suggested trying out a bit of heat on an extension lead which seemed a good idea, I have portable heating she could use but what with this lockdown... I'm grateful to all for their comments :-) Last edited by: smokie on Tue 5 Jan 21 at 16:36 Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 4 Jan 21 17:21   Dealing with condensation - Zero

>> Those tubes Zero - just on one wall or on as many as poss? The areas that feel dampest. It wont be the whole wall, just areas where the air refuses to circulate, the corners mostly Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 4 Jan 21 16:18   Dealing with condensation - Falkirk Bairn

60watt heater - my parents put one in the downstairs toilet (off the back of the kitchen) in the renovation of a 1900 house - that was in the mid 1950s.. It kept the air circulating and sorted condensation and was just enough to stop freezing of the pipes - single brick / no insulation. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 4 Jan 21 19:44   Dealing with condensation - Fullchat

Just thinking slightly laterally here? Would it be possible to route some of the boiler pipes via the small room to get some warmth into it. Not a radiator as such. Its a matter of getting some warmth into the walls. Last edited by: Fullchat on Mon 4 Jan 21 at 19:44 Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 4 Jan 21 19:56   Dealing with condensation - smokie

That's an interesting thought... Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 4 Jan 21 22:46   Dealing with condensation - bathtub tom

Wouldn't putting any heat in just raise the dew point, meaning the water vapour is still in the room ready to condense on any cold surface? I like the idea of a (small) extractor fan, with a little heat. Perhaps chopping a little (a few mm) off the bottom of the door to allow air in from outside the room? Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Tue 5 Jan 21 01:12   Dealing with condensation - Fullchat

We have 2 bathrooms. Main and En Suite. The En Suite is situated on a corner of the house and has 2 outside walls. The Main has 1 outside wall. Using the bath or prolonged showering in cold weather the En suite suffers from terrible condensation on the walls facing outside and the Main very little. I'm assuming that the the En Suite colder walls cause the condensation and the warmer walls in the Main reduced condensation. Hence why I thought getting some warmth in the wall would assist. However creating a gap under the door and increasing air flow I'm sure would assist with maybe a vent brick in the top of the wall. Ultimately it is warm and quite damp air which is causing condensation, warm air alone would not. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 5 Jan 21 08:44   Dealing with condensation - legacylad

FC, I’ve an identical layout to you. When modernising the 20yo bathrooms I did away with the old wall mounted small extractors and installed a centre ceiling fan extractor. The two fan units were located midway in the loft between the bathroom ceilings and outside gable end. Using insulated trunking as I was told water collects in the trunking if not insulated. Vastly improved extraction, combined with only half tiled walls almost eliminated condensation, but I don’t know if installing vinyl aquaplank flooring to replace tiled floors made any difference.....fewer cold surfaces maybe ? Last edited by: legacylad on Tue 5 Jan 21 at 08:47 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 5 Jan 21 11:19   Dealing with condensation - Fullchat

LL. Do the two extractors exit via two points or do they join at some point? I have the wall extractors and vents above the showers likewise using insulated 100mm pipe. I have to go out through 2 roof tiles as the roof is hipped 4 ways. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 5 Jan 21 13:03   Dealing with condensation - Bromptonaut

OP message refers to the loo as being effectively off the kitchen. IIRC building regs require 2 doors between a kitchen and toilet so perhaps some sort of passage/back hall. Given proximity to the kitchen is it possible increasing extraction in the kitchen to dispose of steam etc from cooking would help? Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 5 Jan 21 13:10   Dealing with condensation - VxFan

>> IIRC building regs require 2 doors between a kitchen and toilet ….. My sisters downstairs bog is basically in the kitchen, separated by one door and wall from it. No room for a hand basin or sink either. Nearest sink is the kitchen one. Not very hygienic at all IMHO. The council however thinks it's fine. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 5 Jan 21 13:50   Dealing with condensation - Netsur

The two door policy was abandoned a few years ago (more's the shame). Condensation can really only be tackled with improved heating and ventilation. Heat raises the temperature of the walls so condensation is reduced, and forced ventilation removes the moist air and hopefully replaces it with dry air. I deal with this stuff on a regular basis in a professional capacity carrying out reports in connection with the Homes (Fitness for Human Habitation) Act 2018. In reality, in a toilet, the more important of the two is heat. If it was a shower room, then ventilation (extraction) would be more important (but I would want both). The tube heater idea is probably the simplest solution and as they are only 60W, using an extension lead on a temporary basis, should make things a let better. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 5 Jan 21 13:59   Dealing with condensation - Bromptonaut

>> The two door policy was abandoned a few years ago (more's the shame). Thanks for that clarification. Our house in Watford has the bathroom off the kitchen in a single storey extension. The room was divided in two to separate the toilet which our survey told was a good thing as it complied with regs. That was in the mid eighties. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 5 Jan 21 13:57   Dealing with condensation - smokie

Her kitchen is quite large and I think there are two doors between but if so one is always open and it's a very small "lobby" (with the fridge freezer in) - and that whole area is well off to the side of the room and it's never struck me as unhygienic. I don't think she cooks that much tbh, and if she does I don't think it's be like steaming a pot of carrots or whatever - I'll ask. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 5 Jan 21 18:16   Dealing with condensation - legacylad

Fullchat. The two extractors are individual. My electrician pal suggested I buy two Manrose MF100T in line extractors, with variable timer, which accommodate flexible 100mm insulated ducting. They vent through two adjacent exits on the gable end. Each has an on/off isolator fixed to a piece of old board , which in turn is screwed onto roof spars. All very accessible in my semi boarded out loft area. I bought everything online and he did the electrical stuff, then emailed me a certificate . Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 7 Jan 21 17:09   Dealing with condensation - hawkeye

>> It has no heating and no extractor. It's sort of off the kitchen. >> Does the kitchen have an extractor? That and the downstairs loo may be where some of the moisture is coming from and the loo should have an extractor if the extension was being built today. Other suggestions to do with heat and ventilation absolutely valid. IMO you shouldn't worry about adding another radiator in a terrace house even if the flow ends up a bit convoluted; a good plumber will be able to balance it with the rest of the house after fitting. We have mercilessly messed around with the plumbing over the last 20 years. One can always turn the pump up or fit a more beefy one to get the water flowing well Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 7 Jan 21 17:12   Dealing with condensation - No FM2R

>>a good plumber Unfortunately since Brexit they've all left. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 7 Jan 21 17:41   Dealing with condensation - hawkeye

>> >>a good plumber >> >> Unfortunately since Brexit they've all left. >> Still a couple out here in the sticks. And radiator balancing shouldn't be too daunting as a DIY proposition. If you've got the time, and for those with teens still at home, got access to all radiators. Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 7 Jan 21 18:25   Dealing with condensation - smokie

Yeah we've done the same here, adding rads and changing sizes... but for her it's more about how complicated ( = expensive) and disruptive the pipework will be to tap into the existing system properly. I don't think there is an extractor in the kitchen (unless a cooker hood counts but I doubt that goes outside). But the kitchen must be about 15' x 10' so not too enclosed. I think the condensation is exacerbated by tiles on two outside walls, and no venting. She's not local enough for me to go and have a nose around... Reply to this message | Report message