| Non-motoring > Infrared heating | Miscellaneous |
Thread Author: smokie |
Replies: 69 |
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New Sun 3 Jan 21 17:49
Infrared heating - smokie
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I've just been reading about infrared heating and it sounds super duper. Very efficient and reasonably priced (but probably a bot more expensive than gas) - no maintenance though. Sites I've read have suggested that you only put it on in rooms you are using which keep the cost down, though I tend to turn off rads in unused rooms anyway. SWMBO feels the cold a lot and I'm just wondering if this might be better than rads as we get older. Even if I just put it in a few rooms. Does anyone have any experience of it? Or opinions? (Interestingly one hit I found when searching was on Moneysavingexpert from Cardew, who used to be a poster on HJ). |
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New Sun 3 Jan 21 18:07
Infrared heating - No FM2R
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There seems to be a big difference between how good the companies selling it say it is and how others say. To be expect I guess. Personally I wouldn't touch it without some sort of reference visit to a working installation or 10. greengarageblog.org/14-major-pros-and-cons-of-infrared-heaters |
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New Sun 3 Jan 21 20:14
Infrared heating - Bobby
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When I ran the shops we looked into this as a form of heating for some of the big warehouse type spaces. If memory serves me right the selling point was it would heat the person not the air? So if you had one focal point , like staff working around a sorting table it would be great, but if they then walked off to move stock they would then feel cold again. Not sure how it works in a domestic situtation? |
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New Sun 3 Jan 21 20:39
Infrared heating - Manatee
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Is this being pitched as a new thing? Does it differ at all from those electric 'fires' that were so common when I was young? i.e. a resistive heater that glows red, typically with a curved metal reflector behind it. My grandfather was a tech enthusiast and had an 'infra red' health lamp from the 1950's. Being mainly radiant heaters, they will be pretty poor at heating air. They'll heat things things that absorb the radiation, which will include a person sitting in the way, furniture, walls. That will I suppose result in secondary convective heating of the air eventually. Electric fires went out of fashion, presumably because space heating came in. If you inhabit warm air, you don't need to have your skin heated directly by radiation. My recollection of electric fires is of being hot on the side facing the fire and cold on the other. If you live in a cold house, maybe one with high ceilings that is difficult and expensive to heat, then maybe they are a good idea. Sit in the line of fire and you will feel warm immediately. The only places I know that have them now are two of the local community halls. They are big high spaces and can be very cold. Turn on the overhead radiant heaters and you soon feel warm. An hour later people are begging for them to be turned off, ten minutes after that they are muttering about being cold again! Last edited by: Manatee on Sun 3 Jan 21 at 20:41
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New Sun 3 Jan 21 20:41
Infrared heating - Crankcase
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| As i read your post, Manatee, I am sitting by just such an electric fire. So know you know of another place. |
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New Sun 3 Jan 21 20:44
Infrared heating - Manatee
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>> As i read your post, Manatee, I am sitting by just such an electric fire. >> So know you know of another place. And are you warm on one side and cold on the other? |
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New Sun 3 Jan 21 21:01
Infrared heating - Crankcase
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>> >> As i read your post, Manatee, I am sitting by just such an electric >> fire. >> >> So know you know of another place. >> >> And are you warm on one side and cold on the other? Yep. Hot one side, frozen on the other. Victorian house, single glazed. |
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New Sun 3 Jan 21 21:58
Infrared heating - Dog
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>>Hot one side, frozen on the other. Victorian house, single glazed. Blimey! .. I thought we were bad enough orf - 1930's owse, double glazed. Gonna open up the fire place and fit a peanut: www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/Saltfire-Peanut-8.html |
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New Mon 4 Jan 21 10:24
Infrared heating - Ambo
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>>Gonna open up the fire place and fit a peanut: There are a lot of criticisms of wood burners just now. It seems they are very high on particulate pollution, which floods into the room when opening the stove to clean it or to or replenish logs. Re bar radiators with reflectors, my memory of them is mostly of the smell of burning dust as it settled on the hot bars. |
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New Mon 4 Jan 21 11:17
Infrared heating - Dog
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>>There are a lot of criticisms of wood burners just now. It seems they are very high on particulate pollution, which floods into the room when opening the stove to clean it or to or replenish logs. I've used multifuel stoves for the 23 years we've lived in Cornwall, plus experience of solid fuel Rayburns for another 10 years - the answer is to fully open the primary & secondary air intakes before opening the door ... very slowly. |
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New Sun 3 Jan 21 20:50
Infrared heating - Zero
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> >> The only places I know that have them now are two of the local community >> halls. They are big high spaces and can be very cold. Turn on the overhead >> radiant heaters and you soon feel warm. An hour later people are begging for them >> to be turned off, ten minutes after that they are muttering about being cold again! I can vouch for that, at WVH we are always fiddling with turning some off, some on, at different ends of the hall. |
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New Sun 3 Jan 21 21:11
Infrared heating - Manatee
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| Ah, you have been inculcated into how to turn them on then. A closely guarded secret. |
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New Sun 3 Jan 21 22:28
Infrared heating - Duncan
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>> >> I can vouch for that, at WVH we are always fiddling with turning some off, >> some on, at different ends of the hall. >> What's WVH? |
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New Sun 3 Jan 21 22:52
Infrared heating - Zero
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| Wilstone Village Hall. |
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New Sun 3 Jan 21 22:56
Infrared heating - bathtub tom
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I see they seem to sold as outdoor heaters. Why would anyone want to heat outdoors? |
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New Sun 3 Jan 21 23:06
Infrared heating - hawkeye
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>> >> Why would anyone want to heat outdoors? >> Wetherspoons in Richmond has an outdoor smoking area with gas-fired IR parasol heaters so the smokers can feel comfortable as they, er, smoke. And ask a member of the caravanning community (Mr Z?) why they want to heat their awnings and play their TVs to the rest of the campsite. Beats me. I'm a simple soul; If it's too cold in the awning, I go inside. |
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New Sun 3 Jan 21 23:13
Infrared heating - Zero
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>> And ask a member of the caravanning community (Mr Z?) why they want to heat >> their awnings and play their TVs to the rest of the campsite. Beats me. I'm >> a simple soul; If it's too cold in the awning, I go inside. I share your bemusement. |
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New Sun 3 Jan 21 23:43
Infrared heating - No FM2R
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>> And ask a member of the caravanning community (Mr Z?) why they want to heat >> their awnings and play their TVs to the rest of the campsite. It's a simpler world in a less populated Third World Country. When it gets cold I chuck another log on the camp fire and refill my drink. And there's no TV, I just read my book in peace while the girls sleep in their tents. Happy days. It's not all crap here. |
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New Mon 4 Jan 21 09:24
Infrared heating - Bromptonaut
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>> I share your bemusement. So do I. |
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New Mon 4 Jan 21 09:36
Infrared heating - tyrednemotional
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>> >> And ask a member of the caravanning community (Mr Z?) why they want to heat >> their awnings and play their TVs to the rest of the campsite. Beats me. I'm >> a simple soul; If it's too cold in the awning, I go inside. >> ...that's not as bad as those that put an electric heater on in the awning, and then go out for the evening. (because the electricity is within the flat-rate fee). Seen it far too often. |
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New Mon 4 Jan 21 12:22
Infrared heating - Ambo
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Re portable electric heaters, I read that they should not be plugged in via extension leads, as "they" can be overloaded and may cause fires. I am nor sure if "they" refers to the appliance, its lead or the extension lead but, in any vase, why should overloading occur? |
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New Mon 4 Jan 21 12:29
Infrared heating - Zero
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>> Re portable electric heaters, I read that they should not be plugged in via extension >> leads, as "they" can be overloaded and may cause fires. >> >> I am nor sure if "they" refers to the appliance, its lead or the extension >> lead but, in any vase, why should overloading occur? "They" means the extension lead when it is coiled up. Put anything over 1kw onto a coiled up extension lead and it will melt in a matter of hours. |
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New Mon 4 Jan 21 14:00
Infrared heating - Bromptonaut
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>> "They" means the extension lead when it is coiled up. Put anything over 1kw onto >> a coiled up extension lead and it will melt in a matter of hours. Coiled EHU leads are a regular source of trouble on caravan pitches. As are campers who get arxey when the possibility of such overheating is mentioned. We've got several multi-gang trailing leads with 4+ sockets but only rated at 10amps - not sufficient for a 3kw heater. Whatever the rating of the lead once there's very little overhead for anything more than a heater at 13amps. We use them for PC's, USB chargers, LED desk lights etc. Probably fewer than 500watts altogether. Miss B worked for a time on a mobile team with the Blood Transfusion Service doing sessions in West Country village halls. Various kit needed to be set up including tea urns, microwaves, computers etc. She had a bit of a run in with an older male colleague after pointing out that 'daisy chaining' extension leads without calculating the total load was a risk. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 4 Jan 21 at 14:03
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New Mon 4 Jan 21 15:30
Infrared heating - tyrednemotional
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>> >> Coiled EHU leads are a regular source of trouble on caravan pitches. As are campers >> who get arxey when the possibility of such overheating is mentioned. >> ...that'd be me, then. In 30 years of motorhoming, I've only ever uncoiled enough EHU lead to make the connection.. Admittedly it is wound relatively loosely on an "H" type cable winder, and is 2.5mm, not 1.5mm cable, but I have never experienced even the slightest warming up. Given that the greater long term demand is in Winter, when the coiled length is quite often under snow, the effects of any warming would be obvious. (YMMV; mine is based on experience, and knowledge of what I have and how I use it. I would probably act differently with 1.5mm cable and a tightly wound cable drum - something, incidentally you see very often on the continent, and seldom, if ever, is it fully unwound). |
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New Mon 4 Jan 21 16:02
Infrared heating - Bromptonaut
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>> (YMMV; mine is based on experience, and knowledge of what I have and how I >> use it. I would probably act differently with 1.5mm cable and a tightly wound cable >> drum - something, incidentally you see very often on the continent, and seldom, if ever, >> is it fully unwound). I'm thinking of the standard orange open drum as supplied by accessory shops etc. Somebody used one of the fully enclosed drum types, as sold by Robert Dyas on Fleet St, to run a large (ie commercial size) coffee filter machine for meetings of the Quango. That certainly started to overheat but fortunately it tripped. Most people don't get the watts/volts/amps relationship. One place I worked had a power bar under the desk with each socket fused at 3amps. Staff member could not understand why a fan heater, supplied for days when the office heating was sub optimal, wouldn't work for more than a few seconds. |
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New Mon 4 Jan 21 16:33
Infrared heating - sooty123
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All the extension reels we have at work have a safety switch so that they won't work unless completely unwound, I'm surprised that it isn't mandatory item on all new ones.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Mon 4 Jan 21 at 16:38
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New Mon 4 Jan 21 12:30
Infrared heating - sooty123
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| Some electrical extensions aren't really designed for devices that draw a lot of current such as heaters. The ext leads can over heat because of that. |
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New Mon 4 Jan 21 14:27
Infrared heating - Manatee
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I only buy or make up 13A extension leads, because sooner or later somebody will use it for a 3kW load. Also use quality stuff. Even then I'd be checking the plugs on a high loading, it's not that unusual to have a poor contact in a socket and any resistance will generate heat. I don't like extension leads at all. We're using far too many in our rented house - the lounge has one double and one single socket in it, to which are attached 8 things. I've just done a quick spec for the new house - it has 78 double sockets on it! I'm not sure even that is quite enough! |
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New Mon 4 Jan 21 15:17
Infrared heating - tyrednemotional
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>> >> it has 78 double sockets on it! I'm not sure even that is quite enough! >> ...you didn't used to live here, did you? tinyurl.com/muchosocket |
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New Mon 4 Jan 21 12:50
Infrared heating - VxFan
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>> but, in any vase, why should overloading occur? Because you've put too many flowers into it. I'll get me coat. |
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New Mon 4 Jan 21 16:01
Infrared heating - Ambo
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| You'll be pleased to know that my annual eye test is tomorrow. |
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New Mon 4 Jan 21 17:05
Infrared heating - bathtub tom
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I've a home made extension lead on an old cable drum. I always 'loop' the lead, so there's an equal amount wound in each direction. Apart from making it less likely to twist and tangle, won't it make it less likely to heat up due to eddy currents? On a training course at ex-military accomodation in the '60s, the bedrooms were freezing. I took a 2Kw electric fire with me and managed to wire it into a 2A plug (one 2A socket was all that was in each bedroom). Nothing blew and it was the most popular brdroom in the block! |
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New Mon 4 Jan 21 17:25
Infrared heating - Mike H
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A couple of years ago we manage to topple over an old night storage heater while decorating the holiday apartment we own. Given that three of us couldn't even lift it off the floor, and reasoning that the elements and/or internal blocks would have been damaged we replaced it with an infrared heating panel. Although we weren't living there, only visiting the apartment to clean between guests, it quickly became apparent that the apartment felt much warmer than when we had the old storage heater. It warmed the uninsulated concrete floor (laid with parquet, unheated garages below) which always used to feel cold. The installation was a little awkward, because the only practical place to mount it was on the wall alongside the dining table pointing down the length of the c.5m long room, meaning that anyone sitting at the dining table got the full blast. However, it did seem to make a good job of warming the whole room, which was important for us as we had paying guests. The other advantage is that we didn't have any complaints about room temperature, nor we did have to second guess the weather which was necessary with the storage heater. The downside came with the power bill - up by 33% over a year. This is probably due to us being advised to run it 24/7, although we did turn it off during the few brief spells when we had no guests. It was a 1kw panel, which is relatively high for infrared panels. If we had been living in the apartment I would probably have installed a timer, but adding complexity to holiday lets is almost certainly going to end in tears! In retrospect, I think it would have been better with ceiling-mounted panels, although they would have looked unsightly, as it's possible that we could have placed two lower-powered panels in strategic places such as in the dining area and in the lounge area, rather than using one to throw the heat the length of the room. When we revamp the bathroom in our own house, I'm planning to find some way of using one to provide auxiliary heating in the room, as they are so quick and easy to install, and gave impressive results in our apartment, but I wouldn't leave it on all the time, as it warmed our room so quickly I don't think it's necessary. |
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New Wed 6 Jan 21 10:31
Infrared heating - Ambo
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| No mention above of the catalytic heaters such as the portable Super Sur, which used to be popular as space heaters. My own experience of them was limited to a miniature version that I plumbed in to keep a motorcaravan warm. The more common type, for house use, had a cabinet housing both the heating element and a gas bottle (propane, I believe). I don't know if, like halogen heaters, they switched off automatically if the cabinet was knocked over. |
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New Wed 6 Jan 21 11:01
Infrared heating - Manatee
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>> I've just been reading about infrared heating and it sounds super duper. Very efficient and >> reasonably priced (but probably a bot more expensive than gas) - no maintenance though. Back to square one. This is electric, right? And it doesn't involve a heat pump? Since all forms of electric heating are ~100% efficient, "infrared heating" sounds like the emperor's latest outfit. In certain circumstances perhaps it's more effective at making a person receiving the radiation feel warmer than if the same amount of energy were used to heat the [air in] the room. But you can't get something for nothing. Those 1/2/3 bar electric 'fires' went out of fashion. I'm guessing, but that's probably because gas CH is a lot better - gas is still about 20% of the price per kWH than electricity, so even at a lower efficiency you can heat the [air in] the room more cheaply and more comfortably than with mainly radiant electric heat. Even if you deploy enough infrared electric heating to get the actual air temperature up, you still have the disadvantage that, unless you get your person out of the firing line of the heater, you will feel a lot warmer on one side than the other. There's probably a clever way to arrange multidirectional arrays of these things that might even out the heat so you can feel warm enough all round to be fairly comfortable if you sit in the right place. But really, it's just an expensive way to heat a room. They are a quick way to feel warm, that's about it for me. I remember my father muttering about them "drying the air" unlike gas or solid fuel - he was right, but he was also Yorkshire so I suspect he was thinking more about the electric bill. In the bad old days when we had the electric fire, it was used as a supplementary form of heating - the main heat source was a coal fire but if heat was needed quickly, say on return to an empty house, it would be switched on and we would huddle round it. In my adult life, our first house had no CH, just a gas fire in the main room. We had a paraffin heater in the bathroom and electric fan heaters for tactical use elsewhere. Even then I think we had dispensed with the radiant electric. There is no super-efficient method of electric heating that breaks the first law of thermodynamics. Heat pumps can give you more energy as heat in your house than they consume only because they transfer it from outside. Have I overlooked a major scientific advance? Or has somebody really found a clever way to use simple resistive heating? |
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New Wed 6 Jan 21 11:11
Infrared heating - CGNorwich
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Electric panel radiators are just as effective as any other radiators in heating a room. They are smaller, less intrusive, easier and cheaper-to install and more easily controlled. I recently stayed in a house in Scotland that had them fitted an I was impressed by their efficiency. Everybody would use electric heating in som form if it hasn't for the running costs- around 3 to 4 times that of gas. |
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New Wed 6 Jan 21 11:25
Infrared heating - sooty123
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| That's the killer, I know someone who had a flat with all electric heating, cost a fortune to heat. Much cheaper to install though? |
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New Wed 6 Jan 21 11:29
Infrared heating - Manatee
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>> Electric panel radiators are just as effective as any other radiators in heating a room. Of course, they are doing the same thing in the same way, which is substantially convective. >>I was impressed by >> their efficiency. All electric heating is efficient. kW in = kW out for practical purposes. It just costs a lot. >>Everybody would use electric heating in some form if it hasn't for the running costs- around 3 to 4 times that of gas. Agree. And if the generation and transmission is efficient it would probably be better for the environment even if using fossil fuel. The bit I don't get about "infrared heaters" is that they are both inefficient (in terms of cost rather than energy input) and comparatively ineffective. In short, "rubbish!". |
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New Wed 6 Jan 21 13:12
Infrared heating - smokie
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Looks like I've been suckered (yet again LOL) doesn't it... In it's defence, they do seem to infer that it makes the walls and furniture warm which provides additional warmth to the room in general. I am persuaded by your comments but it does appear to me that being a large panel rather than a small bar they may heat in a less concentrated fashion. The one I've ordered is portable and I had in mind for short use e.g. when pottering in the garage - and maybe it would be something of a temporary solution to my daughter's condensation probs (see other post) Anyway it's not here yet. Once it is I'll provide a mini-review. |
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New Wed 6 Jan 21 13:14
Infrared heating - No FM2R
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>>they do seem to infer that it makes the walls and furniture warm which provides additional warmth to the room in general. Surely you infer, they imply? |
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New Wed 6 Jan 21 14:27
Infrared heating - Bromptonaut
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Where I've seen IR heating used/promoted it's been in open places where it has the capacity to heat people rather than air. Workshops would be one example. It was also used at the old station in Northampton where the barrier line was almost out on the exposed platform. Kept the inspectors warm. |
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New Wed 6 Jan 21 17:46
Infrared heating - bathtub tom
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>> Surely you infer, they imply? 'O' level English, I was taught I infer, you imply. |
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New Wed 6 Jan 21 17:51
Infrared heating - No FM2R
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| Agreed. I was clumsily replying in the context of Smokie's post. |
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New Wed 6 Jan 21 20:15
Infrared heating - smokie
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| Trying to make me feel better about my appalling grammar no doubt :-) |
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New Wed 6 Jan 21 22:02
Infrared heating - Duncan
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>> >> Surely you infer, they imply? >> >> 'O' level English, I was taught I infer, you imply. >> Depends who is the donor, who is the recipient. |
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New Wed 6 Jan 21 22:12
Infrared heating - Bromptonaut
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>> Depends who is the donor, who is the recipient. Can you expand? Not looking for awards but that and refute/deny were one of a few things I hang onto. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 6 Jan 21 at 22:14
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New Wed 6 Jan 21 22:31
Infrared heating - Duncan
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>> >> Depends who is the donor, who is the recipient. >> >> Can you expand? >> >> Not looking for awards but that and refute/deny were one of a few things I >> hang onto. dictionary.cambridge.org/grammar/british-grammar/imply-or-infer |
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New Wed 6 Jan 21 14:34
Infrared heating - Manatee
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>> Looks like I've been suckered (yet again LOL) doesn't it... Sorry, not trying to be a Nobby know-all. I have tried to figure out what's new. Certainly the presentation is if this is the sort of thing you meant www.infraredheatersdirect.co.uk/ The do say this Infrared heaters are a new and innovative form of electric heating. Radiant heat, combined with digital control from timers and thermostats... Central heating radiators, for instance... most of their heat comes from the circulation of hot air behind the radiator, which fills the room with warm air, raising the ambient temperature**... ...Convection heating is simple and effective, but it is also wasteful. Transferring heat to the air, which must then transfer it to the people in the room, is inherently inefficient. Radiation effectively cuts out the middle man, by transferring heat straight from the heater to the people in the room. **which seems to be a way of saying they don't heat the air. I'd say IR heating has a place, maybe where heat is required quickly for short periods and in vast or high spaces where aiming some heat at yourself is more realistic than getting the ambient temp up. One of those high up single bar jobs in a small bathroom is far better than no heat at all and pretty low cost too as if it's only used for a couple of hours a day. You really don't want portable electric heaters in a bathroom. What seems to be "new" in relation to IR is the mention of timers and thermostats. Like all heating systems, decent controls can presumably make them more cost effective. They seem pretty loose with the difference between efficiency and effectiveness. Generally I think I prefer convection with a radiant component you can feel. When the radiators go off here I notice almost immediately, even before the temperature drops materially. I'm slightly concerned that our new gaff with underfloor heating throughout won't 'feel' warm. I'm putting a stove in the sitting room as a back up! |
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New Wed 6 Jan 21 15:44
Infrared heating - Netsur
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Underfloor heating is wonderful. It does take time to heat up from cold but if you leave it on at a steady room temp of say 20C-21C, you will feel a wonderful sense of all enveloping comfortable heat as you walk in the house, without it feeling stuffy and with the benefit of floors that are warm and dry wquickly when you mop them. As they heat from bottom to top, they don't require huge amounts of heat to feel warm - a radiator system needs hot water at 60C to warm a house properly. A water fed underfloor system only requires about 40C I think. The one person I knew who didn't like it turned it off at night, and so he felt cold in the morning as it took a long time to warm the house up; which defeated the object. |
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New Wed 6 Jan 21 15:51
Infrared heating - No FM2R
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Totally agree, done properly and used properly underfloor is really great. |
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New Wed 6 Jan 21 17:15
Infrared heating - Manatee
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That's good to hear of course Netsur, Mark. 40 degree water circulation fits with what the heat pump should manage. |
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New Wed 6 Jan 21 16:29
Infrared heating - smokie
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| I was just reading a discussion on another forum about whether to leave underfloor on 24h and the consensus seemed to be that it's not a bad idea. The OP was using it in conjunction with an air source heat pump. |
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New Wed 6 Jan 21 22:24
Infrared heating - Manatee
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>> I was just reading a discussion on another forum about whether to leave underfloor on >> 24h and the consensus seemed to be that it's not a bad idea. The OP >> was using it in conjunction with an air source heat pump. It's a degree less responsive than ordinary rads so I guess you'd either leave it on, or have it going off sooner for a few hours and on earlier. I am also expecting much much better controls than I have been used to. The rental we are in at the moment is unbelievable, there is no room stat anywhere. The whole thing depends on thermostatic valves that mostly don't work so we just turn in on and off. The boiler is a Potterton Netaheat with a fanned flue, it sounds like a jet engine running up. |
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New Wed 6 Jan 21 23:25
Infrared heating - Kevin
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>The rental we are in at the moment is unbelievable, there is no room stat >anywhere. The whole thing depends on thermostatic valves that mostly don't >work so we just turn in on and off. The boiler is a Potterton Netaheat with >a fanned flue, it sounds like a jet engine running up. How does the boiler know when there is no longer any demand for heat? Just the boiler temp? All the installations I've seen have a thermostat in the busiest room with no TRVs on the rads to ensure that there is always some flow whenever the pump is running. Otherwise the pump cannot rotate. Other rooms can have TRVs set to whatever temp is wanted of course. My boiler is an ancient Potterton Netaheat. Damn good boilers and worth keeping until spares get scarce according to the last guy who serviced it. They are known for releasing Carbon monoxide tho' if the ceramic rope seal between burners and flue is damaged. CO should be tested whenever it is serviced and make sure that you have a CO detector in a suitable location. |
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New Thu 7 Jan 21 10:11
Infrared heating - Manatee
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>> How does the boiler know when there is no longer any demand for heat? Just >> the boiler temp? Yes, there don't seem to be any rads without TV's. I keep them all open anyway, trying to regulate the temperature with them is hopeless and far too complicated, perhaps because half of them are stuck. I have the boiler stat on minimum and it's plenty hot enough. >> My boiler is an ancient Potterton Netaheat. Damn good boilers and worth keeping until spares >> get scarce according to the last guy who serviced it. This is a Mk II F 10-16. The landlord's tame plumber says he won't take it apart but he tests and certifies it. I've made sure there is a CO detector and I test it. I think it will just conk out and then get replaced within a year or two. Every now and then it stops firing for no obvious reason. I just turn off the power, leave it for 10 minutes and then it works. The plumber can't find the reason. The kitchen window leaks air so badly that there's probably enough ventilation just from that. It sounds terrible but actually it's just a 60's semi in a quiet cul de sac that probably hasn't been updated for 30 years or more. It's a fairly warm house with decent sized rooms and we like living here as long as it's temporary! It's just generally worn out and due for a good refurb, and I think a lot of rental properties are probably in this category - things get mended when they break. |
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New Thu 7 Jan 21 12:12
Infrared heating - Zero
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>> >> >> How does the boiler know when there is no longer any demand for heat? >> Just >> >> the boiler temp? >> >> Yes, there don't seem to be any rads without TV's. There has to be one, or some form of heat loss loop for when the pump is on overrun. |
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New Thu 7 Jan 21 12:35
Infrared heating - Manatee
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>> >> Yes, there don't seem to be any rads without TV's. >> >> There has to be one, or some form of heat loss loop for when the >> pump is on overrun. Just walked round again, there aren't any. The cylinder is on a motorised valve. Not to say there isn't a loop of pipe somewhere - or maybe the boiler trips the overheat switch and that's why it cuts out? I just report things that leak or stop working, and pay my rent. I've told the agents that there is a bit of a maintenance deficit and there will be a steady stream of failures. So far we've had a replacement shower, a new washer, a new rad valve, a cooker repair (failed)and a roof leak, and a blockage to the bathroom water supply cleared (caused by crud falling into the then uncovered dead pigeon tank in the loft). I just hope the boiler doesn't die while the outside temp is stuck at zero (nothing personal). |
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New Thu 7 Jan 21 14:47
Infrared heating - bathtub tom
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Presumably there's a C/H tank in the loft that the system can vent to? Won't the pump circulate water there if all the valves are closed? I've an intermittent sticking thermostatic valve. Every couple of years it sticks shut after the Summer. All I do is remove the thermostat body and use a pair of pliers to pull up the pin in the valve. |
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New Thu 7 Jan 21 16:14
Infrared heating - Manatee
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| I did that with one of them and the pin came straight out, followed by a small fountain of hot water. I hammered it back in quick sharp. |
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New Sat 9 Jan 21 19:33
Infrared heating - Kevin
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>Every now and then it stops firing for no obvious reason. I just turn off the power, leave it >for 10 minutes and then it works. The plumber can't find the reason. Almost certainly a dry joint on the circuit board. (I was a nosey git when mine was repaired by this guy www.miketheboilerman.com/ ) |
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New Thu 7 Jan 21 16:17
Infrared heating - Mike H
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>> All the installations I've seen have a thermostat in the busiest room with no TRVs >> on the rads to ensure that there is always some flow whenever the pump is >> running. Otherwise the pump cannot rotate. Other rooms can have TRVs set to whatever temp >> is wanted of course. >> Our system has no room thermostat. There is an outside temperature sensor which tells the boiler when to come on. Presumably the intelligent controller is programmed to provide a certain flow temperature based on outside temperature and the insulation profile of our house. Every radiator has a TRV, which incidentally is not linked to the wet side of the radiator, so can be replaced if there's a problem just by undoing a knurled ring. Seems to work OK and I gather is becoming quite common. Last edited by: Mike H on Thu 7 Jan 21 at 16:18
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New Thu 7 Jan 21 20:32
Infrared heating - Kevin
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>Presumably the intelligent controller is programmed to provide a certain flow temperature based on outside >temperature and the insulation profile of our house. How does it know the 'insulation profile' of your house? Are you sure that the 'intelligent controller' does not also act as a thermostat - most of them do. They use the external temp sensor to work out when to switch the CH on. Earlier if it's cold outside, later if it's warm. I think current building regs state that central heating systems must have a thermostat in one room and may have TRVs in other rooms (as well as a timer). They must also be fully pumped and have a bypass if the boiler manufacturer specifies one. My TRV heads are attached to the valve body with a knurled ring. There is also the option for Zigbee controlled heads so you can change the temp in the bog from your phone, although in my house I think that is a solution looking for a problem. |
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New Fri 8 Jan 21 21:23
Infrared heating - Mike H
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>> How does it know the 'insulation profile' of your house? >> One of the control unit parameters I presume, equivalent to a graph, which decides how much heat is needed. >> Are you sure that the 'intelligent controller' does not also act as a thermostat - >> most of them do. They use the external temp sensor to work out when to >> switch the CH on. Earlier if it's cold outside, later if it's warm. >> That's similar to what I said but phrased differently. Definitely no thermostat involved with the controller, it's attached to the boiler in the utility room. >> I think current building regs state that central heating systems must have a thermostat in >> one room and may have TRVs in other rooms (as well as a timer). They >> must also be fully pumped and have a bypass if the boiler manufacturer specifies one. >> I don't live in the UK, so building regs don't apply. >>There is also the option for Zigbee controlled heads so you can change the temp in the bog from your phone, although in my house I think that is a solution looking for a problem. >> I can control our heating from a smartphone app, but not at room level. Couldn't see a need for room-level remote control, just extra expense. Last edited by: Mike H on Fri 8 Jan 21 at 21:27
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New Sat 9 Jan 21 19:20
Infrared heating - Kevin
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| This fascinates me. What make/model is the controller and boiler? |
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New Tue 12 Jan 21 16:12
Infrared heating - Mike H
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>> This fascinates me. What make/model is the controller and boiler? >> The boiler is a Junkers, sold in the UK as a Worcester (they are both part of the Bosch group), and the controller is the Bosch equivalent of the Worcester Greenstar Sense II. I can't remember the Worcester equivalent of our boiler. |
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New Sat 9 Jan 21 19:53
Infrared heating - tyrednemotional
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>> My TRV heads are attached to the valve body with a knurled ring. There is >> also the option for Zigbee controlled heads so you can change the temp in the >> bog from your phone, although in my house I think that is a solution looking >> for a problem. >> I experimented with a couple of these for a while, largely because the fire-sale price I got them for was considerably less than a replacement Drayton TRV4 head. (the latter tend to self-destruct over time) tinyurl.com/Progtrv Quite a neat idea (if not the neatest of implementations) if you have rooms with significantly different and predictable times when you require heating, I used for bedrooms to close heating down earlier, and open up later, than the overall house regime. Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Sat 9 Jan 21 at 19:55
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New Fri 22 Jan 21 12:52
Infrared heating - smokie
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This heater arrived the other day and now it's out of my personal quarantine I have set it up. So far it is hopeless. It gets really quite hot itself but there is not much range to the heat and little convection. It's only 400w so I oughtn't expect much. It might be more effective on a really cold day but today is not so bad, and I'm not holding my breath! On the upside, I can control it from my phone, over internet/by voice and using my Home Assistant. :-) At a different time, and if it hadn't come from abroad, I'd consider sending it back - but it only cost about 5 packs of fags (see my post @ 12:05 today in this thread if you don't get that www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?f=6&t=28553 ... :-) ) Last edited by: smokie on Fri 22 Jan 21 at 12:58
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New Fri 22 Jan 21 17:49
Infrared heating - Manatee
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I'm contemplating 2-4 of these for the loft space in the new house. www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/stiebel-eltron-infrared-radiant-heaters/ As you can see they are pretty cheap once you strip out the marketing. I remember people putting these in bathrooms in non-centrally heated houses. I've had attic trusses put in a section of roof about 9m long, which has made a big non-habitable space of about 25-30sq. m. The floor area is a bit over 3m wide excluding the unusable height at the eaves. I've had the joiner deck it with 18mm flooring and board over the rafters with 9mm OSB to make it slightly tidier/less chilly. It's really for storage, and a selling point if a future buyer aspires to make a room up there (the ceiling above the staircase has been done as a knock-out so the staircase can be extended upwards). It will be a cold roof space, the insulation is below the decking so there's no point heating the space as I'd be heating Hertfordshire, but radiants will make anybody who needs to be up there for a couple of hours in cold weather feel warm. Access will be a hatch and loft ladder. I don't intend to fill it with junk, just things like the luggage and Christmas decorations ideally, so if the grandchilder (or I) want a train set it will be going up there. Last edited by: Manatee on Fri 22 Jan 21 at 17:51
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New Fri 22 Jan 21 19:15
Infrared heating - bathtub tom
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>>I don't intend to fill it with junk I didn't either, but my worse mistake was flooring it and making it easy for SWMBO to access. There's a bookcase up there for chrissake! |
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New Sat 23 Jan 21 00:24
Infrared heating - smokie
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| Next door just had a free top up of loft insulation (he is well off and working) and his wife indicated nearly waist height when I asked how deep the lagging now was. They had to clear the loft completely. It's take me weeks and a few skips to do that, and the boarding would have to come up!! |
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