Admittedly I’m not up to speed with what you can and can’t do moving between tiers, but I’m out of my 10 day isolation soon so better get up to speed....
I’m pretty certain I’m in tier 2 here in rural N Yorks, but chatting to various friends in W Yorks they’ve just returned from 3 night stays over the border in N Yorks.
They all live in outlying villages and hamlets in WY, take extreme measures ( by my standards) having food delivered, no car sharing etc but I thought they weren’t allowed to go on holiday to a lower tiered area ? the respective hotels didn’t seem to mind, and from what I can gather the hotels had plenty of residents from tier 3.
It’s all very confusing. I’m more focused on getting back to Spain early February on the first Ryanair flight. Currently, al least until 05/01/21, it’s Spanish citizens and holders of residencia only. Which chucks a spanner in the works..
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Not sure the rules are confusing. They are all clearly set out and no if you are in tier 3 you shouldn’t be travelling to go on holiday.
www.gov.uk/guidance/tier-3-very-high-alert
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Thanks CGN. I’ve confirmed I’m in tier2. So I can go walking outside my immediate area...south Lakes, M Bay Area, Bowland fells. Happy days.
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>> Not sure the rules are confusing. They are all clearly set out and no if
>> you are in tier 3 you shouldn’t be travelling to go on holiday.
>>
>> www.gov.uk/guidance/tier-3-very-high-alert
It's should not rather than must not but that was enough to scupper us (Tier 3) meeting The Lad and his g/f (Tier 2) for an outdoor get together at a suitable halfway(ish) point between Northampton and Liverpool.
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...judging by behaviours around here, everyone is an acolyte of Aleister Crowley.
‘Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.’
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'Ordinary morality is only for ordinary people'
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“Having to talk destroys the symphony of silence.”
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Weren't the restrictions lifted for a 5 day period over Christmas for all but Tier 4, which we've recently entered?
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No. The 5day period was amended to Christmas Day only.
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Complete lockdown here in Wales. At least there is no confusion.
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There is no confusion , just a wilful determination to ignore simple instructions that have been widely promulgated.
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>> There is no confusion , just a wilful determination to ignore simple instructions that have
>> been widely promulgated.
All the while maintaining that the rules are evil and that only their dodging of the rules is truly virtuous.
May the fleas of a thousand camels infest their a***holes.
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>> There is no confusion , just a wilful determination to ignore simple instructions that have
>> been widely promulgated.
I am too simple to understand what promulgated means.
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Don’t you mean ‘thick’ Z ?
I’m intelligent enuff to have looked up the meaning of the word. Just now.
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>> I am too simple to understand what promulgated means.
>>
That’s why you never win at Scrabble.
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...dyslexia would be a bigger issue...
You don't need to know what a word means to use it in Scrabble, only that it is a word. You do have to be able to splle ti, though.
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>> There is no confusion , just a wilful determination to ignore simple instructions that have
>> been widely promulgated.
Not sure I'd agree with that. It's fairly straightforward to find out what area you're in and which rules apply albeit with some scope for wiggling over should rather than must. That does however assume access to the internet and the IT skills and literacy to make sense of what's written.
The project I'm currently employed on is predicated on approx 20% of the potential claimant cohort for Universal Credit lacking the means, in one way or another, to claim on-line.
In some areas the Covid rules have changed twice in less than three weeks.
Even intelligent people holding responsible jobs fail to understand stuff. A friend seemed convinced that her 20yo son and his 18yo girlfriend could form a 'bubble' and move between each other's homes.
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You don’t need the internet. There are newspapers, radio TV available to all. There is no excuse for anyone who has received at least 11 years of compulsory education not understanding simple instructions.
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>> You don’t need the internet. There are newspapers, radio TV available to all. There is
>> no excuse for anyone who has received at least 11 years of compulsory education not
>> understanding simple instructions.
Is what's in the media reliable even where comprehensible?
There are plenty of folks out there who exit their 11th year of education still unable to understand stuff or read even simple instructions.
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I bet they manage to find the lottery results, the football and Love Island though.
Funny that.
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>> I bet they manage to find the lottery results, the football and Love Island though.
>>
>>
>> Funny that.
A considerably lower bar than the differences between Tiers 2 & 3 I think.
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> Even intelligent people holding responsible jobs fail to understand stuff. A friend seemed convinced that
>> her 20yo son and his 18yo girlfriend could form a 'bubble' and move between each
>> other's homes.
>>
I'll bet more likely trying to convince you.
I'm always surprised the faff people go to kid others and themselves about what's OK and not. Either do it or don't, I don't really care but don't waste time trying to kid anyone or themselves.
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>>I'm always surprised the faff people go to kid others and themselves about what's OK and not. >> Either do it or don't, I don't really care but don't waste time trying to kid anyone or themselves.
I am in a Tier 4 area. On Christmas day I traveled to the coast for the day. I have no idea what tier they were in nor do I care, nor do I know or give a jot if any rules were relaxed on Christmas day.
I know what the CV is, I know how it spreads, and I know how to assess risk and take precautions. My Bubble traveled directly there, my bubble did not come into near proximity with anyone else, no services were used there, and my bubble came directly home.
Tier rules merely exist in my world to adjust my risk profile, I care not what they say you can or can not do, If I need or want to do anything they say can not be done, I will still do it, albeit in a safe manner that other people seem incapable of so doing.
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For once, Zero, I am right there with you.
I suspect though that the difference between us and the neanderthals is that we wish to lead our life safely, but still lead it, with the intelligence to be responsible.
The idiots have no life so resort to waving their willies at authority irrespective of the right thing to do.
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Glad you enjoyed the coast, like I said if people don't want to follow every rule all the time, that's fine (genuinely). I'm not seeking to criticise or pretend I've followed every rule to the letter. But people should own that decision and don't pretend to be all confused/it was all too complicated/ it was someone else's fault or someone else did it first etc.
Not that I'm saying you don't, I'm just speaking generally.
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It's the stupidly ignorant who are spreading this virus. I'm having to protect someone who's CEV (Clinically Extremely Vulnerable) and apart from 'click-n-collect', haven't been out of the house since the start of this latest lockdown. I filled the car for the first time since March.
One branch of the family have had one fatality and two other positive cases and think we're being too cautious - sheesh.
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The rules are set to cater for the lowest common denominators in our society. Not those who can make this work using common sense. Unfortunately that group also contains a larger proportion who don't wish to conform, 'cos I as rights'.
They also are the ones who think it their right to challenge all forms of authority however well meant.
And from Day 1 the wishy washy interpretation and enforcement resulted in resistance and challange to become a national sport. Cummings included.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Sun 27 Dec 20 at 19:35
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I’m out of my 10 day isolation soon. My first day out so arranged to go walking with 5 friends (actually they arranged it)...max of 6 people in our walking group. No car sharing....although we did in Spain, often 4 people from 4 households in my rental car.
Decent forecast, a muddy and leisurely 10/12 miles, home in time for tea. Only 3 more sleeps.
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What FC said.
Arguably it is morally wrong to use one's initiative to break the rules safely if only because it encourages the breaking of the rules by people less scrupulous.
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I'm not sure that follows, are these less scrupulous looking upto those with more ability to decide how to act, are they personally aware of them? Even if they were they would no doubt conjure up some other reason to act stupid.
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We all like think that it is the anti social or stupid element of society that causes the spread of the disease but in all likelihood it is the is that large percentage of the population that stretch the rules that little bit that are the biggest problem.
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>> We all like think that it is the anti social or stupid element of society
>> that causes the spread of the disease but in all likelihood it is the is
>> that large percentage of the population that stretch the rules that little bit that are
>> the biggest problem.
>>
What makes you say that?
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Simply that the terminally stupid and anti social are vastly outnumbered by those who believe themselves to be basically law abiding and mostly adhering to the rules. We comfort ourselves with the belief that our own slight bending of the rules doesn’t really matter too much. Multiply that bending of rules hundreds of thousand of times and you have a major problem.
It’s much the same with traffic accidents. We like to believe they are mainly caused by the reckless and incompetent drivers but in reality they are usually caused by ordinary people who take a chance when they should not.
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I don't think there's any evidence to support that for cv19, might be a nice idea. Who knows.
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>> I'm not sure that follows, are these less scrupulous looking upto those with more ability
>> to decide how to act, are they personally aware of them? Even if they were
>> they would no doubt conjure up some other reason to act stupid.
No, I don't think the less scrupulous (I think I probably meant stupid and careless) look for guidance from superior intellects, I just think it's a lot easier to decide to break the rules if one thinks everyone else is doing it.
Conversely if one thinks most people stick to the rules one might think twice.
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Possibly, I think those minded to act stupidly will do so, I don't think they need much encouragement.
But I guess there will be some that will look to others before deciding what to do.
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This mask wearing in enclosed spaces was a fine example particularly when it came round to exemption. It contravenes your rights to be asked to declare, answer questions or prove you have a medical exemption.
That's pretty much makes it un-enforcable and a licence for those that want to buck the system to do so. And that is what really gets the goat of the more responsible. It relies on those who will do the responsible thing to help put an end to this.
And when and if this is all over the legislation is lifted and back to normal. But no, those that conform are 'sheep' and we are living back in the ages of Nazi Germany. FFS!!
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The effectiveness of mask wearing is, so I’ve read, fairly minimal, but after 10 weeks in Spain, wearing one outside in residential areas became second nature. We wore masks car sharing, walking through deserted mountain villages, and even put them on when passed by runners on footpaths at 800’ metres.
There was always the chance that, 4 up, we may get pulled by the local law and given an on the spot fine as we were from different households. It all seemed rather daft...you wear your mask walking to the local bar, even if there’s no one around, but as soon as you are seated, whether inside or out, it’s ok to take off your mask.
Everyone adhered to those rules...although there was much variance in actually how masks were worn.
Must admit I’ve been out for a drive or two when I should be in isolation...a 10 minute chat x 2 with my old mum, stood the bottom of her steps at a distance of 15’. Wearing a mask.
He’s just a very naughty boy. But I won’t be going shopping on any busy high streets, mask or no mask, anytime soon.
Last edited by: legacylad on Sun 27 Dec 20 at 23:08
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Christmas tier systems - CGNorwich
