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Ongoing debate.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 23 Sep 20 at 13:27
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Just watched a very sobering programme on BBC1 - Surviving the Virus, My Brother and Me.
Twin brothers, both doctors, one contracts Covid. One brother is visiting various people in hospitals who have Covid. It isn't as straightforward as I had imagined. Of those that are admitted to hospital that survive - about 50% - many/most of the have long term disabilities. Problems with heart, lungs, kidneys, liver, every organ in the body. Strokes are common.
One man whom they discussed whether to continue treatment, did actually survive. They asked the specialist - how many people like him have you seen survive? The answer - one other. Everybody else died.
Watch it on catch up. Very, very thought provoking.
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Thanks DUncan. That was quite sobering even though I was aware of the possibility of heart problems - I already have arrhythmia similar to what Alexander van Tulleken has been left with. And he's only 41.
www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000ljnb/surviving-the-virus-my-brother-me
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I didn't watch it all - at an hour a bit too long for my concentration span - but I caught the main points I hope.
It certainly gives the picture from the shop floor. I got quite annoyed with people in the early stages of the pandemic when they said that Covid is just like 'flu. Well for some people maybe, but for a lot it's much more serious. I thought there was something quite serious going on when the Chinese constructed those temporary hospitals extremely quickly. You don't do that for 'just 'flu'.
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Apparently the more complicated version is called "long Covid".
Telegraph
tinyurl.com/y3qeewpu
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So the Chinese have now locked down a village due to Bubonic Plague! - How long before that lands on our doorsteps as well?
It's about time world leaders took a serious look into the activities in that Wuhan Lab me thinks!!
Last edited by: devonite on Fri 7 Aug 20 at 17:28
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Bubonic plague cases regularly occur in lots of parts of the world including the United States. Easily avoided by not keeping a pet Siberian Marmot and staying clear of Melcombe Regis.
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>>Melcombe Regis
Somebody just told Boris that the first confirmed UK case there was 1348. He immediately said he wants an action plan within 24 hours so he can make an announcement just after lunch tomorrow.
Last edited by: Manatee on Fri 7 Aug 20 at 20:24
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It’s rumoured that there’s a second wave. Eyam is in lockdown apparently.
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Pool testing.
Just been listening to an Economist podcast discussing pool testing.
Seemingly the main bottle neck at the moment is lab capacity and pool testing can help this.
i.e. (simplistically) put 10 samples together and test it. If it is negative then you have cleared 10 people with 1 test.
If it is positive then it will now take a total of 11 to clear 10 people.
In regions where infection is supposed to be lowish it could help.signoficantly. Less so of course in areas of high infection.
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Last Friday, I had to call at the local hospital to give a blood sample for my annual check-up; similarly, my wife did this the week before. We both asked if the sample was going to be checked for covid as part of a 'randomish' testing programme in the population; the answer was 'no'. Seems like a wasted opportunity.
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Not sure there is a blood test is there? Although that sounds unlikely.
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The antibody tests, which tests if you have previously had the virus, are blood based but I don´t think those are accurate enough yet.
The viral test, which is the one that determines whether or not you actually have the virus, is a swab from your respiratory system (nose and/or throat).
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>> Not sure there is a blood test is there? Although that sounds unlikely.
>>
In the last month I have supplied two ( two weeks apart) self administered blood extractions which were posted back to Biobank specifically for Covid testing.
A kit arrived in the post. A couple of finger prickers and a small tube to collect the sample.
My daughter tells me it is the same kit for heel pricks etc in babies.
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One would think that randomised population testing would be a big part of the model for managing the epidemic, but we hear very little about it. Does anybody have a good figure for the real number of infections?
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There appear to be several reports (and trials?) that bulk pool testing can be carried out a waste sewage plants. Presumably they know how many households are served and can make a % estimate of those infected.
Smart thinking if they can make it work.
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...even smarter if they can track and trace the "Richard the Thirds"....
;-)
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New Zealand investigating if the latest outbreak came from freight.
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>> New Zealand investigating if the latest outbreak came from freight.
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www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/new-zealand-considers-freight-as-possible-source-of-new-covid-19-cluster-1.4328227
Investigations were zeroing in on the potential the virus was imported by freight. Dr Bloomfield said surface testing was underway at an Auckland cool store where a man from the infected family worked.
“We know the virus can survive within refrigerated environments for quite some time,” he said during a televised media conference.
The NZ business of Atlanta, US-based, Americold, a refrigerated storage specialist with operations in the United States, Australia and New Zealand, identified itself as the owner of the cool store.
Americold NZ managing director Richard Winnall told the NZ Herald the infected man had been on sick leave for several days and all employees had been sent home for tests.
China has reported instances of the coronavirus being detected on the packaging of imported frozen seafood.
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There was quite a bit in the early days about how the virus can continue to live on different surfaces, days in many cases. I'm not sure it was ever scientifically proven at the time but we are still quarantining deliveries (food and post) where we're not in a rush for the item, and/or giving stuff a bleach wipe over (which I think is pretty pointless but we've not caught it yet).
When we were discussing with neighbours they weren't aware it could live on surfaces.
Here's on of many similar articles.
www.nature.com/articles/s41407-020-0313-1
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I guess it’s One of those things that’s theoretically possible but not worth worrying about. Who wants to live forever anyway?
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I knew CV was nowt to do with 5G.
There is now a single word anagram of carnivorous - coronavirus.
This cannot be coincidence. Clearly COVID_19 is a conspiracy by the commie climatologists and liberals, in concert with the Chinese, to target western meat eaters.
If you want to stay safe, adopt a non-animal diet.
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Did you get that from a naivete rag?
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The anagram was mentioned on Paul Sinha's Radio 4 programme last night. Obviously somebody is going to come to that conclusion so I thought it might as well be me.
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Thanks for that. I’ve gone Vegan and thrown the router out the window to be on the safe side.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Thu 13 Aug 20 at 19:26
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>> Thanks for that. I’ve gone Vegan and thrown the router out the window to be
>> on the safe side.
Don't forget the aluminium foil helmet.
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Got myself kitted out here BT
shieldheadwear.com/
Particularly recommend the underwear
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I see the signalproof bra, small size, is out of stock.
I guess loonies must have small tits
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They're all busy making mountains out of molehills...
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Quote:-
"All I can say is, wow. I absolutely love this beanie. It’s stylish and fun. The perfect placement of the tag allows me to wear it as a beanie or cuffed like a hat. I have been wearing it 24 hours a day (except when bathing). Since I started wearing this beanie, I feel less anxious and I am starting to sleep better. This hat is truly essential for maintaining or improving health. I loved this beanie so much, I ordered a second one immediately after the first one even before receiving my order. I have told everyone I know about your products. Thank you so much!” – Leigh Ann from USA
£39 I should think so!
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I get the need for mandatory isolation traveling in from countries that have CV flareups.
I don't get the need for 24 hours notice, all those people rushing back are CV clear are they even tho they are traveling from a place deemed to have a flare up?
I dont get people saying they have been let down by HM Gov either.
You knew the risks, if you can't factor in a 14 day quarantine when you get back, dont ruddy go.
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I dont get people saying they have been let down by HM Gov either.
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>> You knew the risks, if you can't factor in a 14 day quarantine when you
>> get back, dont ruddy go.
My thoughts as well, what do people expect. Shapps said pretty much the same, entirely a possibility your summer holidays will be messed up.
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Absolutely. The fact that the government might, lead by infection statistics, move a country from 'safe' to 'essential only' and reimpose quarantine restrictions was blindingly obvious. If there was ever any doubt then the move regarding Spain removed it.
Other than, perhaps, those for whom it was a go or lose big money question I don't thing there's much scope for complaint.
We went to France on 27 July, after Spain was shut off, and returned on 11 August. We had a plan B for quarantine which involved doing a full week's shop in France followed by a UK Supermarket delivery for week 2 of quarantine. Neither of us have work that would be affected and as we've both got decent occupational pensions our income was not threatened.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53805307
If anyone wants to help with the trials for a vaccination, the links are in the report.
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Saw a story on the news this evening about the trains, seems passenger numbers are still down about 70%. I wonder how much longer they can be run at the current timetable with so little money coming in? At what point does the gov allow changes to the timetable?
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>> Saw a story on the news this evening about the trains, seems passenger numbers are
>> still down about 70%. I wonder how much longer they can be run at the
>> current timetable with so little money coming in? At what point does the gov allow
>> changes to the timetable?
Timetable is already changed and has been since lockdown, all my local trains are off WTT Working Time Table and are on STP Short Term Planning
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 19 Aug 20 at 19:53
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As a slight aside I feel that the roads are considerably busier over the past week or two. There is actually something of a rush hour going on yesterday when I was coming home at that time - not a proper rush hour but small amounts of congestion on the M25 & M3.
Last edited by: smokie on Wed 19 Aug 20 at 20:01
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I was thinking more long term, if numbers of passengers don't get above, say 50%, what impact will that have?
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>> I was thinking more long term, if numbers of passengers don't get above, say 50%,
>> what impact will that have?
Commuting, specially to London, has changed, more than likely permanently.
The Train Operating Company franchises will have to be renegotiated, expect several to hand the franchise back to HM gov where it will be run under public ownership (As LNER is now)
I expect South West Railways and Southern to walk away, possibly Greater Anglia
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and still a need for HS2?
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>> and still a need for HS2?
In capacity terms too soon to say. As a project to stimulate the economy and soak up the unemployed - like the Golden Road on Harris or the Hoover Dam - it's another question.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 19 Aug 20 at 21:59
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>> and still a need for HS2?
Post covid? possibly not. Heathrow runway 3 plan looks well flaky now
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There wii be a vaccine next year. Three years time Pandemic will be history. People will want to travel again. Home working will largely be history.
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>> There wii be a vaccine next year. Three years time Pandemic will be history. People
>> will want to travel again. Home working will largely be history.
Well I wouldnt be investing my money in London commercial properties. All the major architecture partners and landlords are now looking seriously at re-use.
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Six months ago they were looking to build more commercial. They are just as likely to be wrong now at predicting the future as they were then. My guess is the City will be back, eventually bigger than before. Home working on a large scale is clumsy, inefficient and costly.
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Thats a sweeping statement which I am sure does not apply to all sectors that are WFH.
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>>Thats a sweeping statement which I am sure does not apply to all sectors that are WFH.
I bet it does pretty much.
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>> Home working on a large scale
>> is clumsy, inefficient and costly.
I agree its much more efficient to ship 400,000 people into a few square miles and house them for a whole 8 hours a day.
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Of course it is. In many many ways. Obviously there is no point in insisting some roles go into the office every day, salesman for one example, but as a general rule it is very efficient and effective.
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>>Home working on a large scale is clumsy, inefficient and costly.
Does not allow for fertilisation, balance, growth or well-being. Limits growth and care. Moves towards inefficiency.
It seemed to work well because it was a change and fresh. It will in short time lower itself to lowest acceptable performance.
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>> Six months ago they were looking to build more commercial. They are just as likely
>> to be wrong now at predicting the future as they were then. My guess is
>> the City will be back, eventually bigger than before. Home working on a large scale
>> is clumsy, inefficient and costly.
>>
Not a fan of home working?
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>> There wii be a vaccine next year.
I hope so. In fact I think so, but I doubt it'll be a one and done job. Annual, I wouldn't be surprised.
>>Three years time Pandemic will be history. People will want to travel again. Home working will
>>largely be history.
I entirely agree. 100%.
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I'm finding it hard to imagine that there will be a big surge in people wanting to go back to commuting 5 days a week? Genuine question, I've never had a job that would lend its self to wfh, so I don't know.
I get that completely wfh doesn't everywhere, but perhaps more like a 50/50 split in the future?
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I'm sure I've mentioned in my last job (now more than 5 years ago!) the team was 100 string but there were only about 30 desks so we were expected to wfh.
Having already been home-based for some years I was quite happy with it but there were quite few who asked for (but were refused) permanent desks - some because like the company of others, some didn't have adequate space or privacy to work at home and I think some just didn't trust themselves to do a fair days' work. (In actual fact I'm sure my days at home were much more productive than any I spent in the office, as a result of less social interaction).
My daughter's working week used to be a couple of days in Watford (often upwards of 90 minutes drive each way) and a couple in London (an expensive and stuffy hour or so on the train and tube with a drive to the station). They were told yesterday that London won't be re-opening this year and Watford is being modified with (screens etc) but really only for use as a meeting/training etc hub, not for people who want to work in the office. She won';t miss the cost and hassle of getting to work but she said if she'd had a choice she'd have gone back to spending a bit more time than none in the office, primarily for the social side.
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My daughter's working week used to be a couple of days in Watford (often upwards
>> of 90 minutes drive each way) and a couple in London (an expensive and stuffy
>> hour or so on the train and tube with a drive to the station). They
>> were told yesterday that London won't be re-opening this year and Watford is being modified
>> with (screens etc) but really only for use as a meeting/training etc hub, not for
>> people who want to work in the office. She won';t miss the cost and hassle
>> of getting to work but she said if she'd had a choice she'd have gone
>> back to spending a bit more time than none in the office, primarily for the
>> social side.
>>
That's the sort of thing I was thinking about, I find it hard to imagine that there's millions of people who are are looking forward to packed trains and sitting in traffic jams twice a day 5 times a week. I know there's more to the whole wfh situation, but this must have shown that there's a better balance for many people where previously there was none.
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Sitting on the edge of your bed with a laptop balanced on your knees in a one bedroom flat is not the ideal working environment yet that or something similar is what home working means to a lot of people. Of course there are some tasks that can be done at home and some, mainly older people have spare rooms or can afford home offices in their garden but home working is one of those ideas that does not stand up to close scrutiny.
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>> Sitting on the edge of your bed with a laptop balanced on your knees in
>> a one bedroom flat is not the ideal working environment yet that or something similar
>> is what home working means to a lot of people.
No it doesn't. No idea where you dragged that little scenario up.
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To be fair my daughter's £190k 1 bed flat in Crowthorne is almost like that. She has a small dining table in her lounge which she's cleared to use when home working.
But since March she's been here nearly all the time !!
She hasn't a lot of space for anything like files or paperwork, if that would have been necessary. People really do live like that!!
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>> No it doesn't. No idea where you dragged that little scenario up.
Lot of young professionals live in rooms in shared houses. Might be OK in master or second bedroom but a 6 foot by 5 boxroom?
Not just singletons either. I've spoken on several occasions to couples with a child in shared accommodation.
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>> No it doesn't. No idea where you dragged that little scenario up.
>>
Check out the real world.
www.cityam.com/for-young-londoners-working-from-home-is-a-cramped-and-dismal-experience/
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I still work for a company who several on here have also been associated with over the years. I do not expect us to have anything like the same physical footprint when this all shakes out. Savings from withdrawing from expensive real estate are already glinting in spreadsheet management's eyes. I have worked from home like most since early March and do not expect to return to an office in any regular way until 2021 (which I hate the thought of). For me WfH has always been an exception and to allow personal work/life flexibility; there are so many intangible benefits of being office based that simply do not transfer to video and IT teaming tools let alone the human bonds of friendships and camaradary that develop due to chance encounters, exchanges etc. That said I am at the wrong end of the age profile and many younger employees seem to feel differently. I suspect some kind of hybrid approach will become the norm.
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It will be odd that new school leavers starting their first jobs will maybe never know what working in an office is like. I don't see how they will know their way around the company like someone office based.
I am also a bit puzzled how someone new to a job would learn how to do it - it's all very well if it's just a repeatable process but for instance SWMBO was "office manager" for some years and it encompassed a whole range of stuff from interviewing to managing building contracts to doing the office monthly accounts.
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Having recently retired from the aforementioned organisation I have been familiar with working from home for some part of my week for the last 25 years, since laptops (and home networks) became usable.
In a work environment which is primarily client based on variable length contracts, it actually makes a lot of sense, and is the only way to maintain a sensible home / work life balance, or something close to one, altthough the divorce statistics among my colleagues suggest it doesn't work for everybody.
Client time is key, but many clients do not expect contractors on site all the time, most of them do not even have all their own staff in the same office every day.
As long as you have a quiet, undisturbed place to work, and access to required software, hardware and telephony, it is possible to work efficiently and still be home for family a reasonable amount of the time.
Sure there will be clients, roles and parts of projects that require you to be constantly on site and most of us spent a good number of nights in hotels and a good number of hours on the road, but the balance could be struck if you worked at it.
Wfh works for some, no it won't become the norm for some jobs and some organisations, but for many, it is already and will become more so, I believe, for many more, certainly in IT based jobs.
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It's not one or the other - some office jobs will simply be more efficient with WFH, others not.
A lot of office space isn't cheap and a modest reduction in productivity might easily be offset. On the other hand, when effectiveness suffers then the disadvantages of homeworking might outweigh the net savings.
There will also be combinations - teams could spend a proportion of their time in the office to maintain the soft benefits of working together, motivation, competition, esprit de corps, knowledge sharing.
Video meetings will become more effective as people get better at them as has already happened. I have a regular meeting commitment as a member of a trustee board and we have got much better at it over the last four months. I at least am far less aware of the physical separation than I was to begin with despite having some prior experience of video meetings. I was the first to say I would attend a meeting virtually, about two weeks before lockdown, and I was the only one at that meeting not physically present. All subsequent meetings have been entirely virtual. This isn't a normal work situation of course, but one can see the potential for reducing space, time and travel needed solely for meetings in almost any industry.
We have generally used the offices of one of our consulting firms for meetings - I know they have been debating how much expensive space they really need in the West End and I suspect they will want to reduce it - all their staff have been WFH for over four months now and doing everything they normally do, with the offices almost completely empty.
Futurology is a mug's game but the question really is not whether people would choose to ditch the old ways but whether, in the end, doing so is simply more competitive. That's what's happening with retail. JLP for example already had 40% of its sales online before the pandemic. It must now be near impossible competitively to sustain a large-durable-goods business with the majority of its sales from bricks and mortar shops - for the near future I think they will have a role, giving some physical reassurance to customers and as bases for the provision of ancillary services and showrooms. To date, with the obvious exception, purely online retailers of things like large electricals and furniture have struggled with profitability but the tipping point has been getting nearer. Online is doing to big shops what Tesco and those who followed did to the high street, only faster because online doesn't need complicated property pipelines and expensive building projects.
If firms can make a success of remote working then they can save vast sums, directly and indirectly. We know some won't find it easy to WFH but many others will jump at it and probably work for less money. Long commutes are expensive for employees in time, money and well-being.
I wouldn't put much money on the Watford INTU (Harlequin) centre and similar places being shops in 5 years' time. I know little about commercial property but the likes of Hammerson, INTU, British Land etc must be very exposed with sound tenants evaporating. Tenants such as JLP, M&S, will presumably continue paying rent while the leases run but as they roll off the money will stop and in the meantime the centres are missing their anchor tenants. The VC's will presumably be gathering investors to pick up the pieces.
I don't want to catastrophise, equilibrium has a way of returning, but there are a lot of dominoes.
Last edited by: Manatee on Thu 20 Aug 20 at 11:28
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My employer has around 1000 employees across two offices, of which the total desk space is around 700 at any one time. This has been facilitated through flexi working, hot desking and a small element of working from home for those that had laptops.
Since Covid hit, pretty much 8-900 staff are now working from home with the rest of us due to receive laptops within the next fortnight.
My employer is fully planning on WFH being the new standard and certainly has no plans for anyone returning to the office before next summer. On the weekly updates we receive, although there is some negativity towards it, the vast majority of staff, and the executive team, are happy with the productivity that WFH has brought.
In our latest update they are now discussing reviewing HR policies which state that you must live within x distance of either of the offices. They are stipulating that staff must be UK based however.
20 of us started in January and were only 11 weeks into our training and mentoring when lockdown hit and have been furloughed ever since. However when we return, we are receiving refresher training in all aspects, module by module, to bring us up to speed. As an employer I really can't thank them enough.
One of my neighbours has just bought a camper van and I was joking that I could borrow it for weeks at a time and as long as I could pick up a decent internet signal, I could WFH in a different place every day!
I am at the stage in my career that I am not looking for promotions or developments so WFH will suit me other than I would maybe like a bit of human interaction every so often, maybe one or two days a month in the office? However my son is 22 and works for the local council and has been WFH since day 1 of lockdown. He enjoys being able to climb from his bed to the office next door without commuting etc but I do fear that his career will become very stagnant as he won't be "seen" or be visible the way you would be in an office, joining in conversations with other teams, networking etc.
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>> In our latest update they are now discussing reviewing HR policies which state that you
>> must live within x distance of either of the offices. They are stipulating that staff
>> must be UK based however.
An x distance rule of that type makes very little sense even when commuting is the norm. I spent most of my Civil Service career in 'Legal London' - Chancery Lane, Lincolns Inn Fields etc. My commute from a Northampton dormitory village took less time than several and various colleagues who lived in London postcodes.
Mrs B was ruled out for a job a skip and a jump from Euston because she lived more than 40 miles away.
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Commuting is truly foolish - an expensive, polluting, waste of time. No-one (I assume) relishes the prospect of sitting in traffic jams, crowded trains, waiting for buses etc etc.
I think WFH will become embedded as a normal behaviour simply because the old normal is so unattractive - albeit not necessarily 5 days a week. Aside from the benefit to staff, it makes (mostly) very good financial sense to get shot of office costs.
It is very clear that many jobs have continued relatively unaffected in a WFH environment. However there are some things that will suffer:
- new recruits will find difficulty identifying with the "team"
- body language and social cues are different via zoom or similar
- some will find WFH difficult - lack of space, privacy, kids etc
- maintaining corporate cultures and ethos will be problematic
These are not good reasons to reinvent the traditional office - I expect offices to be smaller and/or companies will rent space on an as required basis.
Groups may meet in a "corporate space" (possibly rented meeting rooms) a few days a week
There will be a growth in local office "pods" for staff who are unable to WFH.
Staff will be able to flex where they live to meet their needs - a long commute a few days a month need not limit where you live.
Employers will need to be flexible to attract the right staff - many will see WFH as essential part of the package.
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>> Commuting is truly foolish - an expensive, polluting, waste of time. No-one (I assume) relishes
>> the prospect of sitting in traffic jams, crowded trains, waiting for buses etc etc.
Yebbut...
I treated my commute, an hour on a train with at least in parts decent 4 abreast seating, as quality time. In morning eat breakfast sandwich, drink coffee, read paper and plan day ahead. Evening return, read paper or books, reflect on day, listen to music or sleep. Last of those sometimes on morning too......
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Alternatively you could sit in your own house, drinking your own coffee, eating a home made sandwich that costs you pennies for that hour. And not costing you, or the environment, anything for the commute
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>> Alternatively you could sit in your own house, drinking your own coffee, eating a home
>> made sandwich that costs you pennies for that hour. And not costing you, or the
>> environment, anything for the commute
>>
Although not able to work from home, I've always thought commuting to be pretty much a waste of time. Not something I've ever wanted to do and have avoided, the last 10 years or so it's been either a 10 min walk or 10 minutes in the car on pretty much empty roads. I've always thought of it very much as a perk and feel quite lucky not to have to have a proper commute; faffing about in traffic jams or on rammed public transport doesn't do anything for me at all.
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You were making the best of a bad job.
I used to say I liked a half hour drive to adjust between work and home. But I know I'd rather have had another hour at home. And I also glossed over the fact that I arrived at work an hour early and left an hour late to avoid the worst of the traffic. So really it was three hours a day for years, so so I could "be somewhere" every day because that what somebody else expected. Most of the time I could have done what I needed to do in four hours at home, without all the meetings and interruptions from work shedders.
I'm chuffing glad I finished with it when I did.
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>> I treated my commute, an hour on a train with at least in parts decent
>> 4 abreast seating, as quality time. In morning eat breakfast sandwich, drink coffee, read paper
>> and plan day ahead. Evening return, read paper or books, reflect on day, listen to
>> music or sleep. Last of those sometimes on morning too......
I had the chance of working in London (shorter commute than Brompt) and declined, despite serious salary increase.
My morning: get up, breakfast, walk dog for half-an-hour. Ten minute cycle ride to office (cadge lift with SWMBO if raining), get in by 08:10. Home at 17:10, cuppa, walk dog for 45 min, dinner 18:00.
I hated the days I had to go to London for meetings, often fell asleep in them and wasn't invited after a while.
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Thinking out loud but if I end up WFH permanently, and I need to do 7.5 flexi hours a day, there is no reason why I could not move to the Outer Hebrides or the like (assuming decent internet), open a guest house or such like and have a completely different lifestyle to what I currently have!
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And I would have been in North Yorkshire Bobby, or maybe the Marches.
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>>An x distance rule of that type makes very little sense even when commuting is the norm.
sorry maybe I wasn't clear - that is the current policy but they are looking to remove the need to be within commuting distance of one of the offices.
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We used to have a policy where if work needed you to be in another location, they provided a (very) generous relocation package, or paid excess travel costs for up to 2 years.
Most of the travel in the last 25 years has been to client sites, and if you were one of the good guys you could usually find a different project, or else negotiate your own working patterns.
We certainly now have far less real estate of our own, twice in the last 5 years I went to one of "our" locations to find my badge had expired off the system through lack of use and had to be reset.
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>> >>An x distance rule of that type makes very little sense even when commuting is
>> the norm.
>>
>> sorry maybe I wasn't clear - that is the current policy but they are looking
>> to remove the need to be within commuting distance of one of the offices.
>>
We still have something similar, if you move either job or house and end up more than 50 miles away from work you have to get 'permission' from your boss.
I've seen people do 70 odd mile/ best part of 2hrs each way commutes and do it for years. I thought they were bonkers but each to their own.
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I don't think any do it by choice Sooty. Not everyone has generous pay and conditions which paya
relocation, and not everyone is so lucky as to have a well enough paid (or secure) enough job to move if their only job choice involves a long commute.
I thought I enjoyed the hour each way train journey, and later the hour each way drive, until I didn't have to do it!
Last edited by: smokie on Fri 21 Aug 20 at 08:09
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>> I don't think any do it by choice Sooty. Not everyone has generous pay and
>> conditions which paya
>> relocation, and not everyone is so lucky as to have a well enough paid
>> (or secure) enough job to move if their only job choice involves a long commute.
>>
>>
In the examples I gave, yes they did do it by choice. Not one I'd make, but each to their own.
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Missed the edit, in the examples I was thinking of yes they had all of those things but made a choice not use them and preferred a long drive.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 21 Aug 20 at 19:29
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>> Missed the edit, in the examples I was thinking of yes they had all of
>> those things but made a choice not use them and preferred a long drive.
I guess some of them will have got if not a dream house then at least one that their established in. Kids settled in good schools, local network of friends and relatives etc. Big break to move if you don't actually have to particularly if there's a prospect of next move reducing the commute again.
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>>An x distance rule of that type makes very little sense even when commuting is the norm.
It was an H&S inspired fad for a while amongst several large employers after a couple of driving while tired accidents on the front page of The Sun or some-such rag..
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>> It was an H&S inspired fad for a while amongst several large employers after a
>> couple of driving while tired accidents on the front page of The Sun or some-such
>> rag..
That adds up. My employing department had a purge on in the noughties. There were probably some real risks with peripatetic staff under pressure to get from site A to B in time for a court session. Similar with Bailiffs.
We had next to no staff driving but I got loads of questions about the risk to a dozen or so quango members driving to the station or airport to travel to a monthly meeting.
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>> 20 of us started in January and were only 11 weeks into our training and
>> mentoring when lockdown hit and have been furloughed ever since. However when we return, we
>> are receiving refresher training in all aspects, module by module, to bring us up to
>> speed. As an employer I really can't thank them enough.
How to deploy new staff members is going to be one of the challenges for my employer. The technical stuff can be broken down into modules and learned. On line resources have largely replaced manuals and text books so that stuff is covered too. Even then though there a tips/tricks and shortcuts you'd have picked up from colleagues.
Much more difficult are the 'soft' skills involved in dealing with the public by phone. Aside from losing the ability to do live observations (with client consent) newbies, particularly youngsters without previous experience would learn by observation. How to do it and how not to do it....
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I see Portugal is now off the barred list, let's hope it stays that way as we have flights booked for 28 Sept.
On Wed my daughter was invited out for a week in a week's time by her mate who lives there. She found a policy that would cover her despite being not recommended by HMG - about £20 for a week. She booked the flights (£52 outbound, $16 back) and the insurance. Yesterday the advice on Portugal changed and the same flights are now £202 outbound and £114 back!! She can't get her money back on the insurance but she was lucky!!
Last edited by: smokie on Fri 21 Aug 20 at 11:01
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Hmm.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53892856
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 25 Aug 20 at 02:19
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We are now to be getting Covid Marshalls! - to ensure social distancing.
Mayhem will follow as they go power crazy!
These could be a really terrible joke! - lets see how many folk laugh when they get a £100 fine when they have been deemed to be a couple of inches too close!
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 11 Sep 20 at 03:03
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Poorly thought out and it's no doubt going to be poorly implemented. The people who apply for the jobs are likely to be "little Hitlers".
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 11 Sep 20 at 03:03
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The role would combine nicely with that of Speedwatch volunteer. I might apply especially if you get a uniform with a peaked cap :-)
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 11 Sep 20 at 03:03
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I suspect many doormen will be perfect for the job, let's face it they won't have anything else to do. They've been trained to handle people and need to be licensed.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 11 Sep 20 at 03:03
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It does seem unwise.
I wonder what level of proof will be required. Or perhaps it'll be another of these 50% discount if you pay in n days to dodge the likelihood of court cases. They'll be going to court if they issue me a ticket. Whatever it costs.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 11 Sep 20 at 03:03
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As it stands, the Covid Marshalls will not have any powers to arrest or even issue fines. They will only be able to 'issue advice and explain the current regulations'. They will get a high-viz vest though.
On another note, I had covid back in May. My sense of taste is just begining to return now after four months.
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>>My sense of taste is just begining to return now after four months.
Not bad thing in this house, if you had to endure my missus' cooking :-)
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>> On another note, I had covid back in May. My sense of taste is just
>> begining to return now after four months.
Your Gin tasted like Vodka?
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I honestly don't know. I decided to get into (better) shape after my birthday at the end of January and cutting out the G&Ts and Barolo was one of the things I did to cut down on the calories. Lost about 10kg altogether and a few inches off the waistline. I reckon I could get into my purple crushed velvet trousers and metallic gold slimfit shirt now if I still had them.
Edit: A friend in Austin had cancer of the jaw, spotted by his dentist, and had to have radiotherapy. It damaged his tastebuds on that side of his tongue and he said that anything containing milk tasted of raw fish. Yuck!
Last edited by: Kevin on Wed 16 Sep 20 at 20:33
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Covid: PM considering new restrictions amid second coronavirus wave www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54214752
Looks like we are back to where we were at the end of March. It’s all a bit depressing really. We need desperately some good news on the vaccine front.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sat 19 Sep 20 at 07:38
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I'm not sure we are there yet, the peak in March is best guess 1/10-1/20 of the actual figure. Although an increasing figure isn't good news I think it was sure to happen, I think many thought it might be a bit later in the year.
I wonder where the biggest areas of transmission are, is it people's houses?
Reading that report the rate of people self isolating is pretty low, around 1/4. Main reason seems to be money, I do think the gov needs to do something about that, a scheme similar to furlough? Although no doubt plenty would take the p, and use it as some extra paid holiday. However might be cheaper in the long run.
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>> Looks like we are back to where we were at the end of March. It’s
>> all a bit depressing really. We need desperately some good news on the vaccine front.
I don't think we will have a usable, safe vaccine for several months, if not a year, or more. By the time is in invented/discovered and then long term tested, that's how long it's going to take.
You are just going to have to learn to sit back and relax.
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Preferably in a beer garden, whilst it’s warm enough to do so.
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I'm very surprised that there is little or no information that I can see on the total number infected. This would seem to be a key piece of knowledge for managing the epidemic and for public understanding.
There was a 'REACT' study in June by Imperial when 100,000 more or less random home antibody tests were done. The results indicated that around 5% of the population had probably been infected (about 3.4 million). The official number of cases, based on tests, is even now only around 400,000.
I believe another exercise has been done with results due.
I think we probably could both avoid another lockdown and open the NHS for normal business if, and only if, the population could be persuaded to avoid unnecessary exposure to high risk situations and activities. But that won't happen - the ball went over the wall some time ago thanks to the way the government has destroyed its own credibility and large numbers appear now to be behaving in a way that suggests they think the whole thing is a hoax.
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I didn't think there was a reliable antibody test?
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>> I didn't think there was a reliable antibody test?
Here is what the government say:
www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-antibody-tests/coronavirus-covid-19-antibody-tests
Even if the test shows antibodies there are only limited conclusions/assurances to be taken from it.
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Those who have had Covid and may have immunity vary between 5-10%. Herd immunity needs 60%+. The vaccine is currently the only option to allow "business as usual" to resume.
Social interaction is the source of infection. Over the summer controls have been relaxed, schools and business are back to some semblance of normality, many have blatantly ignored any guidance, and most have become complacent.
It is no surprise Covid is spreading again. It is also much easier for the authorities to close a pub or restaurant than arrest, fine or jail the 50-100 people in it. No surprises there.
The government also need to have a clear idea of what takes priority - personally I rate schools and jobs far above nightclubs and bars - but not everyone will share that view!
The government also needs to be clear what sacrifices are justified - economy, jobs, mental well being, other health issues etc - to protect the most vulnerable. This is a hugely emotive area where honesty is in short supply.
The proposition that all life is sacred, and no sacrifice is too great to preserve it is complete twaddle. My own view (you are at liberty to disagree) is that the hurt done to the rest of society to maximise protection of the most vulnerable is largely unjustified.
The average age of those who died with (not of) Covid is 83. Many suffer with other serious issues and (bluntly) have only a limited compromised existence ahead of them. This is not to suggest we should be thoughtless in our behaviour, but we should explicity acknowledge the
price to be paid by others is very high.
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>>
>> The government also needs to be clear what sacrifices are justified - economy, jobs, mental.
>> This is not to suggest we should be thoughtless in our behaviour, but we should
>> explicity acknowledge the
>> price to be paid by others is very high.
>>
>>
>>
Very true, I see Drs in areas such as cancer very concerned that NHS has shut down many areas of treatment and become so focused on cv19, that there will be many deaths from missed treatments and diagnosis.
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>> I didn't think there was a reliable antibody test?
>>
Depends what you want to rely on it for - a positive test doesn't guarantee immunity.
At the population level it can still be used to indicate the number of past infections in the population - especially if the false positive/false negative rates are more or less known.
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"the government has destroyed its own credibility and large numbers appear now to be behaving in a way that suggests they think the whole thing is a hoax"
Some truth in both of those statements but I don't think the latter is as a result of the former. IMO there are just vast numbers of people who don't understand or don't seem to care, or just wilfully going against the "establishment" i.e. will take the opposite course to what authority wants, often doing it to the extreme.
I think it's a bit excessive to say the Govt's credibility is destroyed but as per above many people will question it anyway as a matter of course.
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I haven’t seen much evidence of people wilfully ignoring the rules. Was in York city centre yesterday and most people were keeping their distance and I didn’t see any large groups. The hotel was well organised. I guess I don’t go in for late night clubbing or parties where there might well be a different picture.
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I’ve ignored many of the rules...returning from Spain in March I did quarantine myself for 2 weeks, but then spent warm sunny evening with friends in their gardens. I’ve joined groups of friends 15 strong in their large gardens, not shoulder to shoulder, not sharing food, bottle openers or anything else.
Two local pub beer gardens have had a lot, a real lot, of my business these past few months. Four of us round a table, plenty of space between tables, and my time in pubs has been more limited than usual. And only when it’s quiet. I’m happy to sup up and leave if they get anywhere near half busy.
Shopping...butchers once a week, large shop once a week during quieter periods, normally late at night or mid afternoon.
Settle gets horrendously busy on fine weekends...bikers, cyclists, walkers....nothing personal because it’s good for local trade, but I avoid if at all possible.
We should assess the risks on an individual basis, as I’m sure we do...I really miss going to my gym 3 times a week, but even for me that’s a step too far.
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I do think this is a daft system where the posts don't appear in the order in which they are posted.
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>> I haven’t seen much evidence of people wilfully ignoring the rules. Was in York city
>> centre yesterday and most people were keeping their distance and I didn’t see any large
>> groups. The hotel was well organised. I guess I don’t go in for late night
>> clubbing or parties where there might well be a different picture.
>>
I think the biggest area is in people not self isolating when required to, gov estimates are 20-25% are following the rules.
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Perhaps its time to get serious with the punishments for non-compliance. Proper prison sentences not fines and whilst at it, make the crime indicatable - proper long term sentences. If someone ra down the street with a can of deadly bacterial agent they would be done for terrorism, why not a person who does the same?
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 21 Sep 20 at 13:24
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Assume that's TIC given your experience with the cops!
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Oh it's just a rant because the kids have used the last of the OJ without replacing it.
I'll be in a more liberal mood later.
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No OJ. Experiment with something else in your vodka ?
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>>
>> Perhaps its time to get serious with the punishments for non-compliance. Proper prison sentences not
>> fines and whilst at it, make the crime indicatable - proper long term sentences. If
>> someone ra down the street with a can of deadly bacterial agent they would be
>> done for terrorism, why not a person who does the same?
>>
Biggest reason for non compliance (from the same report) is economic. Worried about job security if they go sick or can't afford to live off SSP.
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>> Biggest reason for non compliance (from the same report) is economic. Worried about job security
>> if they go sick or can't afford to live off SSP.
>>
And some of the major food suppliers / manufacturers that I have had dealings with have been accused of allegedly threatening staff who self isolate with the sack.
I am glad my colleagues' and my recommendations on the businesses were accepted by credit committee and we turned down their business.
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Emotional response to those who fail to observe Covid rules is massive fine, lock them up etc etc.
But the UK is not a police state. The UK has insufficient police to do what is required and people know that en-masse they can treat the rules with contempt and mostly get away with it.
The solution is to eliminate the opportunity for people to abuse the rules. Shutting pubs, restaurants, shops etc is much easier than arresting the 50+ people inside.
When local communities realise it is they who have responsibility for their locality, the greater is the prospect of compliance overall!
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Step 1) Advise people that it is more sensible to keep a distance
Step 2) watch stupid people rub against each other and get sick and die
Step 3) watch intelligent people keep a distance and do well.
Step 4) Enjoy living in a world with an increased average IQ
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>>the UK is not a police state.
It is leading that way, when a leading politician urges us to snitch on a neighbour thought to be ignoring the rules. For years our local public library has displayed a box for anonymous complaints about some individual or organisation. This sort of thing is deeply un-British and socially divisive and harks back to Stalinist Russia, where children were encouraged to snitch on their parents. I believe even Shostakovich was betrayed by his own son in this way.
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Nefarious comparison there Ambo. , Stalinist Russia used "snitching" to maintain control for a very small elite. This government is doing it to try and save your life and the future of 63 million of your fellow citizens.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 21 Sep 20 at 13:24
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No doubt the Authorities already have a file on you and are aware of your revisionist views Ambo. They will be keeping a close eye on you.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-54205353
A returning holidaymaker who went on a pub crawl instead of self-isolating was partly responsible for Bolton's "extreme spike" in coronavirus cases, the town's council leader said.
David Greenhalgh said the man tested positive for Covid-19 two days after the night out with friends in the town.
He said Bolton's high rate had been linked back to pubs and a "cohort of people" who refused to follow guidance.
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I’m due to return from Spain sometime in November...I’m flying out fairly soon, fingers crossed.
I already have a long job list of things to do whilst on my 2 week quarantine period. Paint has been bought, patios will be pressure washed, front garden transformed, car waxed pre winter, and maybe a pre Spring, Spring clean if time allows.
Friends recently returned from Portugal are currently quarantining for 2 weeks...Red X parcels have been delivered.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54228649
An interesting article, a few views from some scientists suggesting we might be better off with fewer restrictions.
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>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54228649
>>
>> An interesting article, a few views from some scientists suggesting we might be better off
>> with fewer restrictions.
Get on with it but wash hands, maintain separation and wear masks for example? I'd say worth evaluating if it could be done.
Sounds reasonable but only if people are sensible - they clearly aren't. Told that restrictions are needed and they start on Monday, thousands go out for a last fling on Sunday. If people believe that restrictions are necessary they don't do that.
Back in March when it was stated that there would be lockdown-type restrictions, to be announced, we immediately went into self isolation.
There are lots of proud anti-maskers, presumably furious that they can't refuse a vaccine that hasn't been offered yet, and people who really think that it is some kind of hoax.
It's only the fact that it would endanger the rest of us that stops me thinking "tell them they can do what they like and contribute to herd immunity". They scoff that the fatality rate is "only 1%". Half the population don't understand percentages anyway and clearly haven't considered the possibility that could mean 500,000 dead.
Last edited by: Manatee on Mon 21 Sep 20 at 14:40
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Leaving aside the "Covidiots" who deny/ignore it's existence or dangers, there still remains two very reasonable, but quite opposite points of view.
If you are vulnerable, or live with someone who is, and you have a pension or other protected job/income stream and no mortgage or rent to pay, it's perfectly reasonable to feel that it's vital to use whatever methods of restriction are needed to slow or stop the spread of the virus. Perfectly understandable.
Equally, if you do not believe you are in a vulnerable category, and don't live with anyone who does, and you have a job or vulnerable income stream which would be difficult, if not impossible to replace in short order, and if you have a mortgage or rent to pay, and mouths to feed, then it's also perfectly reasonable not to be in favour of further, or even some current restrictions. Again, perfectly understandable.
People see the world through their own eyes. Something about walking a mile in another man's shoes etc.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Mon 21 Sep 20 at 15:06
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The Government haven't got an agreed a strategy.
Initially "let it run till herd immunity gets us out of trouble". They quickly realised this would overwhelm NHS facilities - the point at which a problem would become a crisis.
The policy changed to "flatten the curve" and "protect the NHS". Hence lockdown in March-May when two weeks delay would have seen mass graves and people dying from collateral damage.
We now have an unresolved conflict between economy, jobs, collateral damage (eg: cancer treatment) virus spread and covid deaths.
Some want complete lockdown to minimise risks, some want a free for all given the damage being done to economy and jobs.
Whichever extreme position is adopted many will be unhappy. Adopting a sensible compromise between economy and virus spread, probably the pragmatic sensible approach, will be acceptable to almost nobody. Politicians want votes and like disappointing no-one!
The mess will continue until politicians initiate a proper debate and provide some real clarity.
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Absolutely, Humph. And the tactics would be well to take account of that.
Doing normal things, but safely, is clearly the best way if it can be made to work and people comply.
The family and friends gathering restrictions are quite sensible looked at that way, because they are discretionary and don't generally involve curtailing economic activity.
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>> People see the world through their own eyes. Something about walking a mile in another
>> man's shoes etc.
>>
....before you criticise someone, walk a mile in their shoes..............
......then if they get annoyed and belligerent , at least you're a mile away and you've got their shoes.....
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Forget about any sensible plans.
Government has 2 priorities now:
1. Deflect attention from the bank papers on dodgy deals
2. Deflect attention from an upcoming winter disaster in hospitals.
Already had phase one on no.2 with the NHSE letter "to GPs" (actually released to the press a couple of days earlier) - getting the blame on lazy GPs for the poopstorm on its way to a hospital near you by not seeing patients face-to-face (which they've been doing).
Gonna be a hoot the next few months.
Thank God Dildo Harding's on the case to track Covid down.
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The reality, I fear, is that no one actually knows what to do. Pandora's box is well and truly open. But, government/s can't admit that they have no idea what to do next, and certainly can't afford to be seen to do, or have done, nothing. So, we will get all manner of hare brained attempts to seem to be in control, when the reality is that they have no real plan, other than to ensure that they appear to have one.
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Pretty much the impression I get, Runfer.
One of our customers died on Saturday night after suffering breathing difficulties for a few days which became chronic enough to be rushed to hospital. He had been awaiting a blood transfusion since March but it kept being put off because of the virus.
There will be a lot of collateral damage because of the lockdown. Whether that was avoidable, who knows?
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I think you've described it well Runfer but one problem is that many seem to know that the government is doing it wrong but then can't articulate what they ought to be doing instead. Not even the sensible ones.
The govt needs to be trying to retain it's authority but so many are undermining it now. I wondered if today's briefing was from the boffins rather than Boris because they know that Boris is almost not trusted by a significant minority whatever he says.
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Well Smokie, I'm going to break a personal rule here, I don't or try not to normally post the same things on different boards, but on this occasion, I can't think of another way to quickly present my point of view. Here's how I saw it earlier today on another forum...
"We are on a runaway train, it's going to crash, sure of course we should try to get the most vulnerable people to the back of the train where they have the best chance of survival, but there are no guarantees. Some will make it, but for sure there are going to be some who don't. Those at the front might as well just have a party and brace themselves."
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Now that's a good analogy to what the media is telling me is happening. Worth crossposting :-)
Though I think I'm too near the back to be considered a party animal ( - not especially vulnerable except age, weight and ex-smoker)
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>> The reality, I fear, is that no one actually knows what to do.
The reality is "there isnt a correct thing to do".
Lockdown = kick the bucket down the road till an anti virus is found and.
Lockdown = Economic disaster, poverty and the inability to pay for recovery
Freedom = mass infection, increased deaths, possible overwhealmed hospitals.
Clarity? there is nothing to be clear about. The only survival strategy is to wave or flip flop between the two till antivirus is available for mass inoculation.
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It's has been difficult for many to get an appointment with a GP either face to face or on the phone, round here anyway. On hold 20/30 mins to even speak to a receptionist is fairly common. Not sure many are getting any face to face. Access to a GP is much harder than before, why that is I don't know.
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Sooty I just typed a quite long post saying similar but decided not to bother in case I sounded like a moaner. So I glad I can piggyback yours.
It's been difficult calling the medical centre here too, and EConsult and Push Doctor seem to be the favoured methods of consultation. Only the former involves a doc from your own surgery though the Push Docs have access to your records.
I don't want to diss our GPs but they are being super-cautious!
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>> It's has been difficult for many to get an appointment with a GP either face
>> to face or on the phone, round here anyway.
Phone round here is pretty much as normal. It's been the SOP for our surgery use telephone triage as a gateway for appointments. Lots of things they'll prescribe for bsed on the phone call alone; if I report my back's gone 'ping' again I'll get a 'scrip for codeine. Other conditions, in my case an infected toe nail get filtered to the nurses.
They will see you face to face if necessary. Mrs B however could not get a cortisone injection and some other bloods and stuff were being done outdoors. They're now doing flu jabs indoors.
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>>Seeing doctors...
Miss Z has moved to a local hospital as a trainee surgeon.
She does half her time in the general surgery ward and the over half on call - so all over the hospital for surgical emergencies.
She reports that there is a marked difference in presentation times with people leaving complaints until they really become a problem. She thinks that partly due to the strange locals and partly due to the current crisis.
One patient (mid 30s) came in with a fungating tumour (google images but only if you have a very strong constitution!).
They first noticed it some 6 months ago but didn't do anything about it because she couldn't get a GP appointment.
It's not good.
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They first noticed it some 6 months ago but didn't do anything about it because
>> she couldn't get a GP appointment.
>>
>
I was thinking something similar, I don't think there's enough discussion about issues such as this.
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>>They first noticed it some 6 months ago but didn't do anything about it because she couldn't get a GP appointment
For me, a typical morning pre-Covid was 15 face-to-face appointments, a couple of telephone ones, and 0-2 housecalls (plus admin/results/etc)
From March to about July we changed to telephone triage for everything, and I was doing 6-9 telephone appointments, of which perhaps 1 would need to be seen F2F and virtually no housecalls.
Demand pretty much fell off a cliff during lockdown.
I spoke with my friend in Preston who has a busier surgery, and although his appointment numbers are higher, he had a similar proportional drop in footfall during lockdown.
Now, the numbers are back up close to pre-covid levels roughly, with 10 telephone slots of which 3-4 generally warrant a F2F appt, and maybe 1 housecall.
The slight reduction in appointments is/was helpful when colleagues have to call off/shield.
I was always very sceptical of telephone triage in the past but it has surprised me how much can be managed on the phone +/- emailed pictures - it's not any quicker than F2F appointments though.
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>> Phone round here is pretty much as normal. It's been the SOP for our surgery
>> use telephone triage as a gateway for appointments. Lots of things they'll prescribe for bsed
>> on the phone call alone; if I report my back's gone 'ping' again I'll get
>> a 'scrip for codeine. Other conditions, in my case an infected toe nail get filtered
>> to the nurses.
Never been used at the one I'm at or the OH's. The latter are borderline hopeless, I think a change of surgery might be required.
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My hospital experience has been pretty different to those horror stories presented. My colon cancer surveillance regime has carried on as normal, with scans bloodtests and stuff all more or less on time agreed pre covid. My Bladder tumours were found this way, during the height of the covid agro, treatment for that was prompt, and the follow up treatments have all happened on schedule. Complications have been dealt with promptly at casualty. Indeed Casualty was a much improved experience than that pre covid.
I fully accept that I am lucky, my NHS trust was not overwhelmed, and I sure that there are many people brewing up issues that if caught earlier would be easy to treat with satisfactory outcomes. I could easily have been one of them.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 21 Sep 20 at 21:36
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Miss Z isn't on nights this year.
Last night her bleeper went off. It was in the dining room so she didn't hear it.
So her mobile went off, again not heard. Then our house phone - not impressed - woke everyone up at 03:00 - every doctor and ward sister got the call.
Apparently there has been quite a spike locally and an influx of patients at the hospital.
Emergency measures have been put in place and it's back to red and green sections.
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I think the main problem is the huge barrier imposed by GPs in gaining access to the health system. For many it is virtually impossible to gain an appointment, certainly face to face and many who are reluctant to seek medical advice in the first place give up after trying to negotiate the appointment system or being fobbed off by receptionists.
Once you have been referred to a hospital you are likely to encounter good treatment. Unfortunately many do not make it that far, at least not until their problem it becomes an emergency.
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Miss Z came home fuming.
Some of the cases of Covid have been from two F1s who left university this year and started in August. (The effect is to take out the whole team of five who live together and all work on the same wards as Miss Z.)
They have been working with symptoms and ignored them. This is totally unacceptable.
Two cancer lists have been cancelled because one senior registrar was working with them at the weekend can't get tested and obviously can't work with cancer patients if he is infected.
As usual management at the Trust don't want to know.
Last edited by: zippy on Tue 22 Sep 20 at 21:14
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They have been working with symptoms and ignored them. This is totally unacceptable.
>>
Why are they ignoring it, stupid, keen to impress?
>> As usual management at the Trust don't want to know.
>>
You mean in terms of disciplining them or something else?
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>>
>> Why are they ignoring it, stupid, keen to impress?
>>
Miss Z thinks they were just arrogant - I'm alright jack.
>>
>> You mean in terms of disciplining them or something else?
>>
Disciplining them and providing proper testing and management for the patients they saw and the teams working with them and management (testing, replacements etc.) for the team who are going to be working with very ill (cancer) patients over the next two weeks.
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Sounds like that particular trust needs a clear out or a rocket up the backside.
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I was at the chemist’s counter picking up a prescription last Thursday, person stood so close behind me his shopping bag was hitting my legs, assistant at next free window addresses him
“Good morning Dr. ..........., only my GP.
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Watched the BBC1 news. Some lass seemed to be saying:
The government was telling us we could have Half price McDonalds, but (rising inflection) now we can't?
She seemed old enough to vote!
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Neighbour's son across the road had symptoms but didn't tell anyone as he had a party to go to and also had been offered overtime all weekend.
You can guess the rest.
Absolute selfish b
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BBC1 Surviving the Virus - My Brother & Me - Duncan
