Strangely saddened by this. There was always something very welcoming about a business seat on a BA 747. No matter where you were in the world, it was like stepping into a very British private members club. "Allow me to hang your jacket sir, gin and tonic isn't it sir? Nice to see you again sir, good trip? Welcome aboard."
Different world, different me, different times of course.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53426886
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Yep. An American friend flying to the UK a couple of years ago said much the same. He was disappointed that the USB port at his seat didn't work...he commented on the aircraft as being "aging"
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>>He was disappointed that the USB port at his seat didn't work
I'm thinking I'm in the wrong forum. I've only eve flown TUI, Ryanair or similar. The USBs have always worked on the X5 (Oxford to Cambridge bus).
Last edited by: bathtub tom on Fri 17 Jul 20 at 23:03
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>> >>He was disappointed that the USB port at his seat didn't work
>>
>> I'm thinking I'm in the wrong forum. I've only eve flown TUI, Ryanair or similar.
>> The USBs have always worked on the X5 (Oxford to Cambridge bus).
First time I flew on a 747, USB wasn't even a design dream or need. Been on a few, BA, Virgin, Malaysian, Singapore, Quaintarse, always liked the 747 in whatever guise. Makes you feel old to see a new plane marque arrive, flourish, and die.
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>>First time I flew on a 747, USB wasn't even a design dream or need
When did they become the norm on planes? About 2008 or thereabouts?
I think the first 747 I went on was in Paris in about 75.
The best 747 I went on was in about 1999 Rio/Paris - the plane had a proper bar with stools upstairs and smoking was allowed. I was still a smoker at the time.
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>> The best 747 I went on was in about 1999 Rio/Paris - the plane had
>> a proper bar with stools upstairs and smoking was allowed. I was still a smoker
>> at the time.
Last time I smoked on a jumbo, i think was in 1990, BA 149 to KL (changed there for Malaysian Airways to Perth WA)
I always remember that flight, a month later the same flight got trapped in Kuwait when Gulf war 1 broke out.
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The last time I smoked on a 'plane was in a 1-11. I used to smoke a pipe, but IIRC that was banned, so I had to scrounge a fag off a family member.
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>> it was like stepping into a very British private members club
*exactly* that.
It was like an oasis of civilisation, wherever I'd been and whatever I'd been doing. I used to find walking onto that plane quite emotional, in a stress releasing sort of way.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 17 Jul 20 at 21:04
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The only 747s that I flew on were a couple of Virgins to Florida. The crew were super attentive on the way back when the lad became unwell and a divert was being discussed - not by us but by the crew.
With BA, I got upgraded on a 777 to business class because I was nice to the desk clerk who had just been harangued by a young couple in front of me. Lovely experience with lots of attention from the hostesses.
Was also on a BA plane at Chicago when we had to deplane because of a passenger and his wish to disembark before takeoff, after the doors were closed.
Bomb sniffing dogs arrived and searched the aircraft.
As ever, the crew were utmost professionals.
Not managed to get on a 787 Dreamliner yet or an Airbus A380 but Miss Z has and said the Dreamliner was plush. She said the Etihad crew were incredibly attentive especially to a lone female traveller.
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When I visited my California friends I flew from Amsterdam with either Delta or KLM. Ports of entrance with the former being Seattle, Portland or Salt Lake. The latter was LA which I used twice...KLM operated old 747s on that route. I don’t think they do now.
Always cattle class for me...I chose the cheapest of those options every time. Never got an upgrade, despite trying by dressing smartly and being extremely courteous at the check in desk.
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>> When I visited my California friends I flew from Amsterdam with either Delta or KLM.
>> Ports of entrance with the former being Seattle, Portland or Salt Lake. The latter was
>> LA which I used twice...KLM operated old 747s on that route. I don’t think they
>> do now.
I think KLM has withdrawn all its passenger 747s but they probably still have some configured for freight. I think the model will remain in service for a long time as a cargo plane and would not be surprised if some of BA's machines are converted though the fact that they're elderly frames with high hours/cycles will be against them as candidates for such a rebuild.
I think quite simply that the seat mile costs of a 747 are so much greater than a 777, Dreamliner or A350 that once there are no longer routes where they can be filled to the gunwales they're dead in the water for passenger service.
Doesn't look too good for the A380 either, nor the other remaining 4 jet, the A340.
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Only once on a 747
Long story - booked Middle East to London, non-stop BOAC VC10 in 1971.
BOAC cabin staff on strike.
Instead of non-stop 8 hr flight it was 30+hours
Jeddah, stop, Cairo change airline to Athens. Change airline to Munich, change airline to Frankfurt. Change airline Pan AM 747 to London. BEA London to Glasgow although I was going to Edinburgh.
Complained, fobbed off by BOAC, not their fault, it was a strike.
Flying 2/3 x per month for 30 years I flew BA on the odd occasion when there was no altenative.
I do no go back to companies - cars, insurance, airlines etc that short change / overcharge etc that fail to deliver
£210 ticket = £3,000 today so really poor service for what was a lot of money.
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>>I do no go back to companies - cars, insurance, airlines etc that short change / overcharge etc that fail to deliver
Unless you've never screwed up and failed to deliver that's a pretty risky approach to take. You run the risk of both wives and bosses following the same approach.
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Ryan Air would have left you there, and not refunded your money. Anyway, why worry, big blue was paying.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 19 Jul 20 at 04:10
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>>Anyway, why worry, big blue was paying.
It was my own money in 1971. An extra trip home!
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>> Not managed to get on a 787 Dreamliner yet
An incredibly quiet and smooth plane, bit lacking in bogs tho.
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I find the 787 has slightly too narrow seats and the 3/3/3 configuration seems odd. Packs them in but doesn’t really suit couples or families. Also the in flight entertainment box in the foot space of some of the seats is really uncomfortable, at least for this 6’4” traveller in economy.
My all time favourite in the A380, particularly with Emirates. When travelling frequently Onintercontinental routes I would fly with them by preference even if it meant going via Dubai. The A380 is to my mind the most comfortable plane to fly economy with, and with Emirates it is/was possible to use airmiles to upgrade at the gate when checking in.
I was once upgraded to first on BA travelling from London to Bangkok on a 747. That was a more than pleasant experience. The flight was delayed over an hour and the purser came round to discuss and have a few words. I commented that it must be pretty grim in the back with the delay and a 12 hour flight to come, especially for people with young children. Her comment was “don’t even think about them, another glass if champagne?”.
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I only ever flew on 747's at big blue's expense, between my first trip in 1981 and the last one in about 1992.
I flew a few times on BA, always in cattle class, but I also flew on TWA and PanAm 747's occasionally in business, even upstairs a couple of times, when big blue passengers got put on the upgrade list when their was space.
Most memorably, I flew on the PanAm jumbo that blew up over Lockerbie, about 3 weeks before it happened, a little sobering at the time.
Last edited by: commerdriver on Sat 18 Jul 20 at 22:54
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The nearest I came to an accident was earlier this year when I was meant to fly on a Pegasus Airlines flight. I didn't take the flight and the flight that was due to land at Istanbul before 'my' flight, crashed.
First 747 flight was 1972, I was seven. We flew down from Manchester on a BAC1-11 and was astonished at the size of the Jumbo. I remember it clearly.
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787 to Hanoi and back last year - not a bad aircraft, don't think it was a quantum leap in comfort and smoothness.
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As I said above, my first flight in a 747 was a quick hop from Frankfurt to Thiefrow.
Taxiing at Frankfurt the Pan AM 747 passed a USAF Galaxy - now that was a really big plane!
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I have flown many times in the 747
In the earlier days in first class there was " trolley service" for the main course and the beef was carved to your taste at your seat. Blue label scotch was unlimited etc.
Serving certainly changed to tray service learned from Concorde having such tiny aisles.
Some intersesting trips.
Leaving Geneva for the Gulf, the 747 had to tight circle several times to gain height to clear the mountains. A bit like being in the stack.
A flight from Montego bay to Kingston. In effect get in your seat, ALL including cabin staff stay belted up, cross your legs, shut up, there is no on board service.
It is about 85 miles over the mountains and IIRC about 25 mins in the air.
On a red eye from Toronto to Heathrow when most were asleep I was invited to join the flight crew and watched the Aurora Borealis which was all around the aircraft. Absolutely amazing !
Thecrew said it was the best they had ever seen.
The then invited anyone still awake to visit the front. Great days.
For safety reasons I had to be on the flight deck for a landing at Heathrow. My first class seat
had a mechanical failure so I had to suffer the jump seat.
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I've never flown in a 747 but I cleaned many at Heathrow, Just a mere Lad then. Happy days though.
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I used to fly London to Manchester in a Comet. Late 60s?
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>> Dan Dair?
While they had a network of domestic routes under the 'Link City' brand using mostly HS748 kit Dan Air's Comets were pretty much wholly engaged on holiday work.
BEA mainline retained Comets until around 1970 when they were moved over to the BEA Airtours subsidiary. Airtours only flew them for a couple of years as they were replaced by 707-436 (the RR Conway engined version) displaced from BOAC.
They then found their way to Dan Air.
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Dan Air used to be a regular hazard when I was learning to fly out of Lasham, they had a maintenance/engineering base there.
I think it was Dan-Air that flew my parents, sister and I on our first ever holiday abroad which was Spain in about 1974 - seemed fine to me, but what would I know at that age!
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Dan Dare comet 4c was my first spain flight too, Fine looking aircraft.
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I don't know much about planes, and in any case it was a very long time ago. However I had a vague memory that it had propellers.
I may well be misremembering, but I can't think of any other time when I would have had the opportunity to be in a propeller'd plane. Well, until foreign climes about 20 years later.
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>> I don't know much about planes, and in any case it was a very long
>> time ago. However I had a vague memory that it had propellers.
I think that it might still have been possible to fly UK/Spain in a prop plane, probably a turbo-prop like the Vickers Viscount, in 1974. But I don't think Dan Air would have been doing Spanish IT flights with props by then; more likely Alidair or even British Midland.
As recently as last summer you could fly to Menorca on a FlyBe Dash 8-400.
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Thank you.
"Spanish IT flights" ? Sorry, I don't know what that means.
It was definitely Dan Air, of that I am sure. I had just started flying at Lasham and the coincidence stuck in my mind. It was also definitely 1974.
The more I think about it the more I think that it was propellers. I remember my Mother, who i later found out was both claustrophobic and scared of flying, not being interested in looking out the window as I pointed out the props spinning up.
As an aside, I find it amazing. I can remember the one international flight I did before I was 17. My children had each done more than a dozen long haul flights before they were 5.
And now, at 18 and 15, they are totally comfortable in airports and I couldn't even count how many international flights they've done. Half a dozen or so a year, I guess.
Times change. But I think I preferred the time I grew up in. I think we enjoyed the best 50 years of the human race experience.
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IT = Inclusive Tour; a package holiday.
I'm not saying you're wrong but having been a plane nut since around 74 I'm scratching my head as to what was in Dan Air's fleet at that time, other than the HS748, that had propellers. That was the year the Court Line/Clarksons group went bust at the height of the season and it's certainly possible kit was chartered in ad-hoc to fill the gaps.
Most of us brought up in the seventies, those who were sufficiently well off to holiday abroad at all, only flew occasionally. In my case three times before I was 18. All to the Balearics, Mallorca twice, Menorca once. BA Airtours 707 on first occasion in 1972, the other two on Britannia 737s.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 20 Jul 20 at 09:47
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Up to the mid 60s my summer hols were with my mum and bruv in a self catering flat above a chippy in Morecambe. Dad stayed behind to run the shop!
Then he sold out and holidays improved! Two weeks every July to Jersey, flying from Yeadon airport (LBA) on a Dart Herald and Avro 748. No idea of airline.
We then went big time...Lido de Jesolo on a Comet and Majorca & Menorca on BAC 111s I think.
Once I reached the age of 16 I never went on holiday with them again.
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"Lido de Jesolo"
That was my first ever flight, a school trip and it must have been... '79??
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>>.Lido de Jesolo
Had one of my favourite holidays there with Mrs Z by coach from Victoria coach station before the kids arrived - couldn't afford to fly as we had just bought a house.
Short coach ride to Venice and long sandy beaches.
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>> >>.Lido de Jesolo
>>
>> Had one of my favourite holidays there with Mrs Z by coach from Victoria coach station before the kids arrived -
>> couldn't afford to fly as we had just bought a house.
>> Short coach ride to Venice and long sandy beaches.
>>
Been there three times in that era.
By train, by car with her uncle and aunt and by coach as above.
No accomodation en route and sleep on the coach. IIRC about £20.
Swaped to an Italian coach at IIRC Innsbruck. Bags swaped while we had lunch and coaches both returned to their base with a new lot of punters.
Watched drivers swap over when driving at speed on the main road and relieved driver kipped down in the aisle in his sleeping bag. Elf n safety ??? Nah!
We went down the valley by the Vajont dam disaster where a lump of Mount Toc fell into the resevoir causing an overspill and 2000+ souls were lost in Longarone and the area.
A jolting experience seeing the destruction
We had an interesting excursion to the Postojna Caves , now in Solvenia.
Viewed even then by a mini train. Magic.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxTrvs28uFA
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I flew in a prop job from NY to Washington in the 90s when one engine failed and it had to return. Not quite as dramatic as it sounds as it only failed while taxiing. I remember staring out of the window, idly wondering why would they ever taxi with one engine? Standard protocol? For the environment? And would they ever fly with a cold engine anyway? Then the tannoy told us there was a problem and we had to disembark while they sorted it out. We reboarded an hour later and on the same plane, too.
I hate flying. The most miserable and tedious affair, from the moment my alarm goes off and that sickening feeling, till I finally walk out of a terminal at the next destination. I hate every dreary minute. I get a far bigger kick by bagging the upstairs front seat of a London double decker. I love doing that. Or when someone has left me the Metro or Standard on the tube. Sexy women sitting opposite. When do you ever get that in a plane? Every day on the tube. Good-feeling moments on public transport.
But the 747 experience is a special one, they are fantastic. That's something that excites me and I would look forward to that. No plans for a while, though.
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>> I hate flying. The most miserable and tedious affair, from the moment my alarm goes
>> off and that sickening feeling, till I finally walk out of a terminal at the
>> next destination. I hate every dreary minute.
I'm much of the same mind, the whole thing is very dull from start to end.
I used to spend a reasonable amount of time abroad, not now thankfully, I can't say I ever looked forward to the journey.
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>> I flew in a prop job from NY to Washington in the 90s when one
>> engine failed and it had to return. Not quite as dramatic as it sounds as
>> it only failed while taxiing. I remember staring out of the window, idly wondering why
>> would they ever taxi with one engine?
Single engine taxi is pretty much standard with modern turbo props, FlyBe invariably did it with the Dash 8. Mostly an economy thing I think but there's a safety gain too as the stopped side is 'safe' for ground operations staff. Accidents where an engineer or loader walks into a live propeller, while not frequent, have been a risk since Pontius was a pilot.
IIRC the Dash 8 and/or the ATR can also run the engine with the prop stopped. The Pratt and Whitney engines are 'free turbines' where there's no mechanical connection between the combustion section and the prop.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_%26_Whitney_Canada_PW100
Older props like the Viscount would start all four but not uncommon to shut the outers down and taxi in on two after landing. 'Bus Stop' services like Air Anglia's Norwich>Leeds>Edinburgh> operation would sometimes leave the right engine running during the 15 minute ground stops to save faffing with a ground generator.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 20 Jul 20 at 12:45
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Must be nigh on 40 years ago, but one of the senior managers at a company I worked for managed to get himself killed by walking into a still spinning propellor when disembarking an aircraft.
Hell of a way to go. Same guy was known to be very accident prone ( or careless maybe ) constantly pranging his cars etc. Once drove into the company garage and managed to tip his car sideways into the inspection pit.
Odd, the things you remember.
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"by walking into a still spinning propellor when disembarking an aircraft."
Classic phone-zombie. And funny to watch...
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Well, this long pre-dated mobile phones, so I guess he was just careless, but I know what you mean, I regularly see people walking out into traffic etc seemingly oblivious to the danger, while on their phones.
Another guy I knew ended up in hospital with a fractured cheek bone and broken nose after walking into a lamp post while checking out a passing pretty girl. Knocked him out cold, fortunately he was with a companion who was able to get him help, unfortunately though, the companion was his then girlfriend. Didn't end all that well as I recall.
;-)
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>>I'm not saying you're wrong but having been a plane nut since around 74 I'm scratching my head as to what was in Dan Air's fleet at that time, other than the HS748, that had propellers
I spoke to my sister and she remembers that it had propellers as well. But neither of us could remember anything else about it which might help.
If you came up with the right plane I might recognise it by sight. Or at least, I'd probably know if it was the wrong one.
I'm curious now.
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>> >> I'm scratching my head as to what was in Dan Air's fleet at that time, other
>> than the HS748, that had propellers
>>
>> I'm curious now.
>>
One of these ?
www.danairremembered.com/fleet-overview.php
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Excellent, Henry. Thank you.
I think it was the Vickers Viscount, on the basis that is had 4 engines. I can only think it must have been 1975, not 1974. It's possible. My sister simply says 74 or 75. No point asking my Mother.
Wracking my brains, we went to Calella. I cannot imagine that we used Barcelona airport because I know the city so well that I am sure it would have rung a bell.
Looking at Girona–Costa Brava Airport I think it was probably there.
I've got a Zoom meeting now so i need to go, but I'll look again later and try to work out which airport Dan-Air flew to.
Thank you all, I was becoming increasingly curious.
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>> I've got a Zoom meeting now so i need to go, but I'll look again
>> later and try to work out which airport Dan-Air flew to.
>>
>> Thank you all, I was becoming increasingly curious.
For resorts in north east spain, ie Costa Brava, in the late 60's early 70's they used to fly pax to Perpignan in France.
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>> One of these ?
>> www.danairremembered.com/fleet-overview.php
Thanks for that link. I was aware Dan Air operated Viscounts in the later seventies and eighties, mostly on behalf of Hards Travel from various airports to the Channel Islands, but not earlier.
The example chartered in summer 75 seems to have been G-BBDK of Air Bridge Carriers. This machine was originally built for Aer Lingus who converted it to a freight configuration with an extra door. Air Bridge were primarily a freight operator but DK was converted back to passenger configuration for its lease to Dan Air. Pictures and narrative suggest it was mostly used on the Lydd Ferryfield to Beauvais air leg of the London Paris coach air service DA inherited from Skyways.
No doubt it could/would be redeployed to other work if exigency required.
www.vickersviscount.net/Index/VickersViscount291History.aspx
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 21 Jul 20 at 14:02
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>> >> I don't know much about planes, and in any case it was a very
>> long
>> >> time ago. However I had a vague memory that it had propellers.
>>
>> I think that it might still have been possible to fly UK/Spain in a prop
>> plane, probably a turbo-prop like the Vickers Viscount, in 1974.
My first flight, in 1965 I think was Southend to Guernsey, Channel Airways Golden Viscount, the viscount of course being a Turbo prop
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I can remember my dad regularly flying from Edinburgh (Turnhouse) to London on a Vanguard. I think those were propeller driven? Would that have been to Heathrow? 1960s anyway. Also, my parents went to Dublin on a Dakota which was definitely a prop.
Edit- And, I remember flying to Norwich on a plane which had its wing on top of the fuselage. Air Anglia. About 1978 I'd think.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Mon 20 Jul 20 at 19:27
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>> Edit- And, I remember flying to Norwich on a plane which had its wing on
>> top of the fuselage. Air Anglia. About 1978 I'd think.
That would be the Fokker Friendship. Flew on one those from Melbourne to Launceston, cabin service was a bottle of water and a twix bar.
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>>That would be the Fokker Friendship
I flew on those a lot in Brazil.
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Also, my parents went to Dublin on a Dakota which was definitely a prop.
>>
I went on one of those about 5 years ago, one of the few flights I actually enjoyed. Got a chance to stand in the para door at low level, good fun.
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These days my parents would be prosecuted for child neglect.
When we went to Jersey en famille in the mid 60s (. Was 10 yo)I’d just discovered plane spotting. I’d be left at Jersey airport with my younger brother, sandwiches and tartan thermos, about 11AM and collected at 4pm by the parents. Probably 3 days a week. The other days we spent on St Ouens beach.
At an even earlier age I was left looking after my bruv, similar sandwiches, same tartan flask, on the olde wooden footbridge at Hest Bank ( just outside Morecambe) collecting train numbers.
My parents always turned up several hours later.
On a serious note, that’s probably why I’ve always been quite independent, lots of self confidence in any company, happy to ‘ wing it’ on holiday whether driving, backpacking, or just getting a flight somewhere and seeing where I end up that day.
Last edited by: legacylad on Mon 20 Jul 20 at 21:24
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Miss Z's - not her boyfriend - is a trainee pilot and had two tyres burst today on two separate take offs.
They gave up on a third - just in case it's third time lucky!
Of course, being a girl, she didn't ask what aircraft he was flying but I think it's a prop plane at the moment.
I can only imagine that it's a prop plane considering the location he is currently training in but he has been flying jets.
Expects to be a freight pilot considering the current economy.
Last edited by: zippy on Mon 20 Jul 20 at 21:46
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He may well be flying me in future then as I always travel cattle class.
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>> Expects to be a freight pilot considering the current economy.
If he joins iceland Air as a pilot he can expect to be pushing a drinks trolley down the isle.
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Dressed as a penguin to publicise the waddle they have adopted at Chester Zoo.
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Goodbye Jumbo - R.P.
