Non-motoring > Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? Miscellaneous
Thread Author: henry k Replies: 46

 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - henry k
GU10 LED Spot Bulb - Spawn of the Devil ?

Try my MR16s. They are a real pain!
A few years ago half my 1930s garage was converted into a loo/shower/ untility room.
Three of the common flush light units were fitted and MR16 were the bulbs.
I have converted most household lamps to LEDs .
Apart from dimmers, suitable LEDS have done a good job.

The Bulbs are retained in the fitting by a serated springy split ring that fits around the rim of the bulb. Squeeze to fit it and when released it expands to sort interference fit with the fitting.

I identified the right colour and wattage and just ordered four bulbs (including a spare).
What I have is the common type with four small lamps in the housing.
One unit flashed on and off so I swapped it.
At present one unit is OK. One frequently has only two out of four lights on or switches on and off. Third one just goes on and off.

I have now looked at adverts again and find alternative LED bulbs.
18 x 2835 SMD LED chips.
Brighter than 3528chips. Widest angle of any SMDs
Way down the advert states:-Swapping low voltage hologen bulbs for LED bulbs

Swapping Low Voltage Halogen Bulbs for LED Bulbs
If you have low voltage halogen bulbs installed with a transformer, you need to check the transformer's maximum load before upgrading to LED bulbs. You can find this on the body of the transformer, in the form of a 'VA' number. The VA number will either be fixed, or it will be a range (e.g. 10-60VA).

This tells you the maximum wattage that the transformer can carry. For example, a 40VA transformer can handle up to a 40-watt halogen bulb, while a 10-60VA one can carry between 10 and 60 watts. Some transformers might just carry one individual light bulb, while others might be able to carry several lower wattage bulbs in a series.

Common issues include flickering, unfamiliar noises, not turning on and the bulbs blowing.

I have no idea re the transformer(s) or their location.
At best I can use my boroscope and look via the holes in the ceiling for any sign of them.
I do not want to lift floorboards above on the off chance of locating them.

I am inclined to revert to Halogens and quickly buy up some spares. Then forget about LEDS.
Help!!
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Zero
The total wattage per bulb will be considerably less for an led (regardless of the number of chips) than the equivalent halogen

So if your transformer supported x no of halogens, it will support x no of led bulb units.
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - henry k
>> The total wattage per bulb will be considerably less for an led (regardless of the
>> number of chips) than the equivalent halogen
>> So if your transformer supported x no of halogens, it will support x no of led bulb units.
>>
Thanks Zero. That is what I understood.
You make me think perhaps I have bought a bad batch of bulbs.
I am tempted to try some SMD type LEDs and if they cause problems I will give up and revert to Halogens plus some spares.
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Zero
LED bulbs are now very shoddily and cheaply made, you have to accept they now have a life span similar to candescent bulbs. Which is ok as they have approached a similar price point. Nothing escapes the fact tho they have less power consumption and are cheaper to run.
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Zero
You have bought low voltage LED bulbs?
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - henry k
>> You have bought low voltage LED bulbs?
>>
Yes indeed. I think all MR16s are 12V . It is printed on the base of mine.
MR16 have a crude fitting, two small short straight pins about the diameter of a paper clip .
These plug into a small block dangling on the end of a cable.
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Lygonos
My bathroom has similar set-up.

When I swapped them all to LEDs they flickered away, drawing 10% of the normal current.

I replaced one bulb (of 6) with a halogen leaving the rest LEDs and they have been fine since - presume the control box was confused with such a low current draw.
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Zero
Control box? jeez mine has a transformer, 4 diodes in a bridge rectifier, a capacitor and fuse.
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - RichardW
You almost certainly need different transformer(s) - cheap halogen transfers just chop half the AC signal off to make a DC ish current, which is OK for Halogens as they glow - however, this causes all sorts of havoc with LEDS. You need a proper LED driver which delivers proper DC and they will be OK. If you don't use it much, unlikely to worth changing them out, so just go back to halogens.
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Zero
Old PC power supplies make excellent 12v led drivers, even come with built in low voltage remote switch capability.
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - MD
GU10 bulbs are best treated like One Coat Plaster.

Buy them and then drop them, unopened, into the nearest skip.

We ditched our GU10 Kitchen light fittings for complete new units where I believe, the bulbs are integral and cannot be changed. Very long life though (they say)!!
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Bromptonaut
We have recessed GU10 LED fittings in the kitchen/utility. Ten in total fitted when we had it 'done' in late 2018.

Certainly effective from POV of efficient light, vast improvement on the previous spots. One after another the original bulbs, relatively warm white Osrams, have given up the ghost and developed an intermittent flicker. As they fail I'm replacing them with a Sylvania product which is a tad cooler/more blue and they seem OK. Two or three Osrams left.


I suspect part of the problem is that the housings in the ceiling void are not ventilated and the Osram bulbs run very hot. The replacements still get warm but unlike the Osrams they're not too hot to touch.
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - henry k
>>...... so just go back to halogens.
>>
That is exactly what I am doing. Sticking with 50W Halogens.

Final update from me.
The light output from both types of LED is way down on the Halogens.
I do need the higher light level.
The 7W /72 LEDs rate as 35W. The original LEDS are closer.
I will just have to get a few to save Halogens as spares before they are totally banned.
Moving a bed and furniture to lift floorboards etc for possible access to cabling without any sure resolution is not for me.
Thanks for your inputs.
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - R.P.
I may have a box of halogens. I'll check later.
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - henry k
For £6 I bought a pack 6 Halogens from online .
When they arrived I was surprised to find the were WILCO bulbs in a Wilco pack.
They should last me long enough.

Power shut off last night.
MCB and RCD both tripped.
I thought I had a LED in a ceiling chandelier blink the day before.
The LED had failed so replaced it but it left a smell that I am stiill trying to vent.
I had foolishly thought changing bulbs was a thing of the past. the LED was less than two years old:-(
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - henry k
Sales of halogen lightbulbs are to be banned in the UK from September,
with fluorescent lights to follow, under government climate change plans.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57407233

Time for me to stock up with halogens as I have not found suitable LEDs to replace them.
Two other LEDs have failed in the last couple of years. Not good value.

I do have a flourescent unit but I guess I will swap to a few LEDs rather than replace the tubes.
I still have 1 & 3 spot lights controlled by a dual dimmer. I do not think swapping those will make a saving to me in my lifetime.

I assume the gazillions of flourescent tubes in business locations will slowly replace their tubes with LEDs as and when they fail.
I wonder how the published savings figures stack up in the next few years?
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - smokie
For sure the running costs of LEDs was much lower when I changed my downlighters but the initial outlay was high, though they have come down in price since then. Reliability has been OK to good but I too have had a couple of failures which I didn't expect.
Last edited by: smokie on Wed 9 Jun 21 at 12:25
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Kevin
The problem is not the actual LEDs themselves but the poor driver circuits and components they use to run them at 240vac in the restricted space they have available.
Off the top of my head I can't think of any good reason now why lighting circuits in all new-build or renovations shouldn't be low voltage DC. It would certainly make the lamps cheaper, last longer and much easier to incorporate smart functionality.
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Zero
>> The problem is not the actual LEDs themselves but the poor driver circuits and components
>> they use to run them at 240vac in the restricted space they have available.
>> Off the top of my head I can't think of any good reason now why
>> lighting circuits in all new-build or renovations shouldn't be low voltage DC. It would certainly
>> make the lamps cheaper, last longer and much easier to incorporate smart functionality.

Powered by a battery pack charged by solar panels. you could back that up with a 240v charger for low solar periods.
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Dog
Blimey, I've just found out 2w LED alternatives are available for the 20w G4 halogens in my cooker hood & desk lamp.

That's progress!
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Netsur
The best LEDs are not those which replicate existing lamp designs into existing fittings but purpose designed sealed fittings. They have a much longer life span.
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Duncan
>>
>> I do have a flourescent unit

I am loaf to say this, but that was some dough, I bet.
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Zero
trust you to get a pizza the action
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Robin O'Reliant
Oh crumbs, not more puns :-(
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Zero
>> Oh crumbs, not more pBuns :-(
>>
>>
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Robin O'Reliant
>> >> Oh crumbs, not more pBuns :-(

I suppose that was the yeast you could do.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 10 Jun 21 at 12:53
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Kevin
If you two don't stop waffling on you're gonna get battered!
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Zero
>> I suppose that was the yeast you could do.

I knew you'd rise to it.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 10 Jun 21 at 12:53
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - smokie
Why is everyone here so crusty? Just cos he made a bit of a bloomer...
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Manatee
You got a cob on?
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Robin O'Reliant
This thread is on a roll.
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Runfer D'Hills
That reminds me of the cafe that advertised Oasis Soup on its lunchtime menu. If a customer asked what that was, it was explained that "You got a roll with it."

Yeah, I'll um...
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Zero
Any more like that and you are toast
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Clk Sec
Everyone's looking for a slice of the action.
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - tyrednemotional
....all the usual run of the mill puns, I see....
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Zero
>> ....all the usual run of the mill puns, I see....

I'd leat it there if I were you.
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Zero
I blame it all on that Donut Duncan.
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Runfer D'Hills
Don't know what all the fuss is about. I changed all our bulbs to LEDs without problems. In fact, you could say, it was a piece of cake...
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - tyrednemotional
... didn't even need a stepladder to change mine; made sure I bought self- raising...
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - VxFan
Very illuminating.
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Duncan
>> I blame it all on that Donut Duncan.

As long as you don't think I am dippy.
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Zero
>> >> I blame it all on that Donut Duncan.
>>
>> As long as you don't think I am dippy.

Think you missed the nuance....logok.org/dunkin-logo/dunkin-donuts-logo/
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Ambo
I only use LEDS for normal fittings, i.e.dangling ceiling lights and standard lamps. I am confused by the wide variations in output from different manufacturers claiming the same figure. What are the core LED values for tungsten watts 40,60 and 100 please? Which are the most reliable manufacturers?
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Zero
>> I only use LEDS for normal fittings, i.e.dangling ceiling lights and standard lamps. I am
>> confused by the wide variations in output from different manufacturers claiming the same figure. What
>> are the core LED values for tungsten watts 40,60 and 100 please? Which are the
>> most reliable manufacturers?

Chart half way down the page matches Lumens & Incandescent/Led watts. Dont forget colour temp, incandescent lamps are "warm coloured" leds tend to be cold.

As for makers the ones you know and love are best - Philips, GE, Osram, Sylvania, and one you may not have heard of Cree. Buy cheap and you buy three times as often.

www.cnet.com/home/energy-and-utilities/watts-vs-lumens-how-to-choose-the-right-led-light-bulb/
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Kevin
For LED and CFL lamps I usually just divide by 10 and double it, so for a 100W tungsten equivalent I go for a something around 100W/10 = 10W, doubled = 20W approx.

Easy to remember and usually near as makes no difference.
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - sooty123
I think you are supposed to change to leds if you want to board out the loft? Something to do with the heat halogens produce if you have the ceiling flush spot lights.
 Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Ambo
The glass of of a LED may run cooler but the base of the bulb seems to get very hot compared to invcandscent.
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