GU10 LED Spot Bulb - Spawn of the Devil ?
Try my MR16s. They are a real pain!
A few years ago half my 1930s garage was converted into a loo/shower/ untility room.
Three of the common flush light units were fitted and MR16 were the bulbs.
I have converted most household lamps to LEDs .
Apart from dimmers, suitable LEDS have done a good job.
The Bulbs are retained in the fitting by a serated springy split ring that fits around the rim of the bulb. Squeeze to fit it and when released it expands to sort interference fit with the fitting.
I identified the right colour and wattage and just ordered four bulbs (including a spare).
What I have is the common type with four small lamps in the housing.
One unit flashed on and off so I swapped it.
At present one unit is OK. One frequently has only two out of four lights on or switches on and off. Third one just goes on and off.
I have now looked at adverts again and find alternative LED bulbs.
18 x 2835 SMD LED chips.
Brighter than 3528chips. Widest angle of any SMDs
Way down the advert states:-Swapping low voltage hologen bulbs for LED bulbs
Swapping Low Voltage Halogen Bulbs for LED Bulbs
If you have low voltage halogen bulbs installed with a transformer, you need to check the transformer's maximum load before upgrading to LED bulbs. You can find this on the body of the transformer, in the form of a 'VA' number. The VA number will either be fixed, or it will be a range (e.g. 10-60VA).
This tells you the maximum wattage that the transformer can carry. For example, a 40VA transformer can handle up to a 40-watt halogen bulb, while a 10-60VA one can carry between 10 and 60 watts. Some transformers might just carry one individual light bulb, while others might be able to carry several lower wattage bulbs in a series.
Common issues include flickering, unfamiliar noises, not turning on and the bulbs blowing.
I have no idea re the transformer(s) or their location.
At best I can use my boroscope and look via the holes in the ceiling for any sign of them.
I do not want to lift floorboards above on the off chance of locating them.
I am inclined to revert to Halogens and quickly buy up some spares. Then forget about LEDS.
Help!!
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The total wattage per bulb will be considerably less for an led (regardless of the number of chips) than the equivalent halogen
So if your transformer supported x no of halogens, it will support x no of led bulb units.
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>> The total wattage per bulb will be considerably less for an led (regardless of the
>> number of chips) than the equivalent halogen
>> So if your transformer supported x no of halogens, it will support x no of led bulb units.
>>
Thanks Zero. That is what I understood.
You make me think perhaps I have bought a bad batch of bulbs.
I am tempted to try some SMD type LEDs and if they cause problems I will give up and revert to Halogens plus some spares.
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LED bulbs are now very shoddily and cheaply made, you have to accept they now have a life span similar to candescent bulbs. Which is ok as they have approached a similar price point. Nothing escapes the fact tho they have less power consumption and are cheaper to run.
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You have bought low voltage LED bulbs?
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>> You have bought low voltage LED bulbs?
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Yes indeed. I think all MR16s are 12V . It is printed on the base of mine.
MR16 have a crude fitting, two small short straight pins about the diameter of a paper clip .
These plug into a small block dangling on the end of a cable.
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My bathroom has similar set-up.
When I swapped them all to LEDs they flickered away, drawing 10% of the normal current.
I replaced one bulb (of 6) with a halogen leaving the rest LEDs and they have been fine since - presume the control box was confused with such a low current draw.
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Control box? jeez mine has a transformer, 4 diodes in a bridge rectifier, a capacitor and fuse.
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You almost certainly need different transformer(s) - cheap halogen transfers just chop half the AC signal off to make a DC ish current, which is OK for Halogens as they glow - however, this causes all sorts of havoc with LEDS. You need a proper LED driver which delivers proper DC and they will be OK. If you don't use it much, unlikely to worth changing them out, so just go back to halogens.
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Old PC power supplies make excellent 12v led drivers, even come with built in low voltage remote switch capability.
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GU10 bulbs are best treated like One Coat Plaster.
Buy them and then drop them, unopened, into the nearest skip.
We ditched our GU10 Kitchen light fittings for complete new units where I believe, the bulbs are integral and cannot be changed. Very long life though (they say)!!
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We have recessed GU10 LED fittings in the kitchen/utility. Ten in total fitted when we had it 'done' in late 2018.
Certainly effective from POV of efficient light, vast improvement on the previous spots. One after another the original bulbs, relatively warm white Osrams, have given up the ghost and developed an intermittent flicker. As they fail I'm replacing them with a Sylvania product which is a tad cooler/more blue and they seem OK. Two or three Osrams left.
I suspect part of the problem is that the housings in the ceiling void are not ventilated and the Osram bulbs run very hot. The replacements still get warm but unlike the Osrams they're not too hot to touch.
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>>...... so just go back to halogens.
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That is exactly what I am doing. Sticking with 50W Halogens.
Final update from me.
The light output from both types of LED is way down on the Halogens.
I do need the higher light level.
The 7W /72 LEDs rate as 35W. The original LEDS are closer.
I will just have to get a few to save Halogens as spares before they are totally banned.
Moving a bed and furniture to lift floorboards etc for possible access to cabling without any sure resolution is not for me.
Thanks for your inputs.
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I may have a box of halogens. I'll check later.
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For £6 I bought a pack 6 Halogens from online .
When they arrived I was surprised to find the were WILCO bulbs in a Wilco pack.
They should last me long enough.
Power shut off last night.
MCB and RCD both tripped.
I thought I had a LED in a ceiling chandelier blink the day before.
The LED had failed so replaced it but it left a smell that I am stiill trying to vent.
I had foolishly thought changing bulbs was a thing of the past. the LED was less than two years old:-(
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Sales of halogen lightbulbs are to be banned in the UK from September,
with fluorescent lights to follow, under government climate change plans.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57407233
Time for me to stock up with halogens as I have not found suitable LEDs to replace them.
Two other LEDs have failed in the last couple of years. Not good value.
I do have a flourescent unit but I guess I will swap to a few LEDs rather than replace the tubes.
I still have 1 & 3 spot lights controlled by a dual dimmer. I do not think swapping those will make a saving to me in my lifetime.
I assume the gazillions of flourescent tubes in business locations will slowly replace their tubes with LEDs as and when they fail.
I wonder how the published savings figures stack up in the next few years?
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For sure the running costs of LEDs was much lower when I changed my downlighters but the initial outlay was high, though they have come down in price since then. Reliability has been OK to good but I too have had a couple of failures which I didn't expect.
Last edited by: smokie on Wed 9 Jun 21 at 12:25
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The problem is not the actual LEDs themselves but the poor driver circuits and components they use to run them at 240vac in the restricted space they have available.
Off the top of my head I can't think of any good reason now why lighting circuits in all new-build or renovations shouldn't be low voltage DC. It would certainly make the lamps cheaper, last longer and much easier to incorporate smart functionality.
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>> The problem is not the actual LEDs themselves but the poor driver circuits and components
>> they use to run them at 240vac in the restricted space they have available.
>> Off the top of my head I can't think of any good reason now why
>> lighting circuits in all new-build or renovations shouldn't be low voltage DC. It would certainly
>> make the lamps cheaper, last longer and much easier to incorporate smart functionality.
Powered by a battery pack charged by solar panels. you could back that up with a 240v charger for low solar periods.
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Blimey, I've just found out 2w LED alternatives are available for the 20w G4 halogens in my cooker hood & desk lamp.
That's progress!
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The best LEDs are not those which replicate existing lamp designs into existing fittings but purpose designed sealed fittings. They have a much longer life span.
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>> I do have a flourescent unit
I am loaf to say this, but that was some dough, I bet.
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trust you to get a pizza the action
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Oh crumbs, not more puns :-(
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>> Oh crumbs, not more pBuns :-(
>>
>>
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>> >> Oh crumbs, not more pBuns :-(
I suppose that was the yeast you could do.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 10 Jun 21 at 12:53
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If you two don't stop waffling on you're gonna get battered!
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>> I suppose that was the yeast you could do.
I knew you'd rise to it.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 10 Jun 21 at 12:53
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Why is everyone here so crusty? Just cos he made a bit of a bloomer...
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This thread is on a roll.
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That reminds me of the cafe that advertised Oasis Soup on its lunchtime menu. If a customer asked what that was, it was explained that "You got a roll with it."
Yeah, I'll um...
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Any more like that and you are toast
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Everyone's looking for a slice of the action.
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....all the usual run of the mill puns, I see....
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>> ....all the usual run of the mill puns, I see....
I'd leat it there if I were you.
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I blame it all on that Donut Duncan.
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Don't know what all the fuss is about. I changed all our bulbs to LEDs without problems. In fact, you could say, it was a piece of cake...
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... didn't even need a stepladder to change mine; made sure I bought self- raising...
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>> I blame it all on that Donut Duncan.
As long as you don't think I am dippy.
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>> >> I blame it all on that Donut Duncan.
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>> As long as you don't think I am dippy.
Think you missed the nuance....logok.org/dunkin-logo/dunkin-donuts-logo/
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I only use LEDS for normal fittings, i.e.dangling ceiling lights and standard lamps. I am confused by the wide variations in output from different manufacturers claiming the same figure. What are the core LED values for tungsten watts 40,60 and 100 please? Which are the most reliable manufacturers?
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>> I only use LEDS for normal fittings, i.e.dangling ceiling lights and standard lamps. I am
>> confused by the wide variations in output from different manufacturers claiming the same figure. What
>> are the core LED values for tungsten watts 40,60 and 100 please? Which are the
>> most reliable manufacturers?
Chart half way down the page matches Lumens & Incandescent/Led watts. Dont forget colour temp, incandescent lamps are "warm coloured" leds tend to be cold.
As for makers the ones you know and love are best - Philips, GE, Osram, Sylvania, and one you may not have heard of Cree. Buy cheap and you buy three times as often.
www.cnet.com/home/energy-and-utilities/watts-vs-lumens-how-to-choose-the-right-led-light-bulb/
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>> As for makers the ones you know and love are best - Philips, GE, Osram,
>> Sylvania, and one you may not have heard of Cree. Buy cheap and you buy
>> three times as often.
I would add Integral to that list as well. I swapped the halogen GU10 spot bulbs in the kitchen and dining room lights at the old house around 2015 with Integral LED replacements. When those fittings came down last year as part of a kitchen/diner renovation, all of those same LED bulbs were still in there and working. And they'd had many hours of use.
Last edited by: DP on Wed 16 Jun 21 at 10:46
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>> As for makers the ones you know and love are best - Philips, GE, Osram,
>> Sylvania, and one you may not have heard of Cree. Buy cheap and you buy
>> three times as often.
Touches wood. So far, no problems with the Energizer LEDs I bought from B&M, and also the E-luminate and JCB branded ones I bought from Home Bargains.
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>> JCB branded ones I bought from Home Bargains.
I picked up a box of 6 JCB branded mini globe bulbs for a daft price from Amazon about a year ago to go in a floor lamp that sits in our dining room. It gets left on overnight for the dogs (we have a spaniel who is terrified of the dark).
They seem to last about 4 months or so before they start dimming and flickering.
Clearly these will just be white-label bulbs put in JCB packaging, so perhaps they use multiple producers.
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For LED and CFL lamps I usually just divide by 10 and double it, so for a 100W tungsten equivalent I go for a something around 100W/10 = 10W, doubled = 20W approx.
Easy to remember and usually near as makes no difference.
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I think you are supposed to change to leds if you want to board out the loft? Something to do with the heat halogens produce if you have the ceiling flush spot lights.
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The glass of of a LED may run cooler but the base of the bulb seems to get very hot compared to invcandscent.
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Yet another two LEDs need replacing :-(
One is flickering very badly - flashing much brighter.
I am still looking for replacements.
The other one is now producing much less light.
A straight replacement required.
I am still stocking up with naughty bulbs.
I have found one brand labeled as a spot light that is in fact a flood light.
Local supplier looked blankly at me when I pointed out the wrongly printed box.
The image actually shows a flood light
I have in the past bought both spot and flood lights of the same fittings and the same brand.
I was expecting to discard my stepladder for bulb replacements.
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MR16 LED bulbs were designed for retrofit to existing halogen lighting units. As such they are a compromised LED design.
Halogen bulbs also failed at regular intervals - the fact that LED don't last the promised 20 years (or whatever) is not a good reason to reject them.
Incandescent and halogen bulbs are like VHS cassettes and floppy discs - largely obselete bits of old tech which for very good reasons should be consigned to the great scrap heap in the sky (or recycled!).
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>> MR16 LED bulbs were designed for retrofit to existing halogen lighting units. As such they
>> are a compromised LED design.
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My MR16 units are original.. I cannot get LEDs that are as bright as the Halogens.The max is 50W
It is far too involved and expensive to replace the units so a stock of obsolete bulbs will see my time out.
>> Halogen bulbs also failed at regular intervals - the fact that LED don't last the
>> promised 20 years (or whatever) is not a good reason to reject them.
I am not rejecting LEDs where I can just swap them out. I can climb a step ladder and replace bulbs in enclosed units like the bathroom. Many folks cannot and need paid help.
The LED failure rate is bad in my household . Failures are occuring in two years or less
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>> Incandescent and halogen bulbs are like VHS cassettes and floppy discs -
largely obselete bits of old tech which for very good reasons should be consigned
>>to the great scrap heap in the sky (or recycled!).
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Nice words but not all folks have the means, ability or wish to keep replacing kit.
At present I can pay to replace stuff but it is just not sensible.
The time is fast approaching when I too will have to call in help to change bulbs.
It is fine for Boris and co to decree what will be scrapped but they have no idea the full impact
is on some of the folk at the bottom of the income scale and offer no assistance.
In theory I am facing a bill of many thousands of pounds to convert to a non gas boiler plus external insulation, under floor insulation etc.
I note that there is very little detailed info on this. Can I order a green cremation ( solar powered?)
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>>Can I order a green cremation ( solar powered?)
No but, you can have a green burial: www.goodfuneralguide.co.uk/what-is-a-green-funeral/
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>>The time is fast approaching when I too will have to call in help to change bulbs.
Meanwhile at 0030 this morning I got a call from SWMBO and tried to switch on a LED but it had died.
I had to go outside to get a step ladder and a traditional bulb to sort it.
100W this time.
Not impressed with all these failures.
Last edited by: henry k on Thu 25 Nov 21 at 12:52
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It would be useful if posters could comment on the longevity of different LED brands they have tried. I am inclined to stick to Philips but have not been using them for long.
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>> I tend to use these LEDs, Rambo. I've also bought Wilkos and Philips, but the Tesco ones are VFM:
I have not tried Philips but TESCO prices have certainlr dropped.
>> www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/294003985
Thats the one I have just swapped out as became too dim.
>> www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/294004022
I've tried this type, in fact several of them and it was one of them that died.
Luck of the draw ?
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Perhaps the electrickery where I live is weaker due to the remote position and the fact it's delivered via overhead cable?
:)
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>> Perhaps the electrickery where I live is weaker due to the remote position and the
>> fact it's delivered via overhead cable? :)
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The dreaded drooping sydrome?
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>>The dreaded drooping sydrome?
They're certainly not drooping today in all this wind!
Actually, I have noticed the electric here (amps of wattever) is definitely stronger than it was in ye olde cottage.
I can have the oven/toaster/kettle on without the lights dipping like it did at the cottage.
I'll have to dig out my trusty multimeter later and test it :)
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>> I'll have to dig out my trusty multimeter later and test it :)
I hear putting your tongue across the terminals works quite well ;)
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My hair is frizzy enough thanks.
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Henry, can you remind us what type of LED bulb has failed. Several different ones have been previously mentioned, IIRC.
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>> Henry, can you remind us what type of LED bulb has failed.
>>Several different ones have been previously mentioned
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MR16s abandoned.
Most others are standard B22/E27 bayonet fittings from various sources.
Two of them are clear filament fittings.
Five in a chandelier unit are clear filament dimmable candle bulbs.(No dimmer in use at present).
Yet another one of these has just started flickering so needs replacing.
My poor experience with LEDs continues.
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I've over 40 LEDs and none of 'em have snuffed it, yet.
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The very occassional LED failure, but no more (and probably less) than with old incandescent.
As a 100w incandescent can be replaced by a 10w LED the cost saving is non-trivial. A single 100w bulb used for 5 hours a day = ~1800 hours = 180KWh. At 20p a KWh = £36 pa.
You don't need many of the burning to pay for a tank of petrol, a weekend away, a decent meal out etc. We can all make choices.
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Abandon MR16 LEDS & revert to Halogen bulbs ? - Zero
