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Ongoing discussion
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Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 30 Mar 20 at 15:12
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There is a shedload of social referencing and mutual support going on to support business's
Dog training friend of mine's husband has a high end wholesale fish business, supplying london restaurants. Not any more he's not, so he has switched to home deliveries. Ordered some packs of fish to be broken up and distributed to close friends and neighbour.
Friend of ours daughter knows a guy with a local microbrewery, used to supply pubs n bars, now he is doing discount beer delivered to your door.
I'm sure similar is happening all over the place.
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I have seen it suggested that seriously ill patients offered a hospital bed turn the offer down to relieve pressure on the NHS. If someone nobly agrees and then dies, whose responsibility is it to remove the body? There could be a welter of cases through this or because of a general shortage of beds. Under normal conditions I believe ambulance crew would refuse to remove it.
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The removal of a body, once life is pronounced extinct, is normally the job of undertakers.
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>> I have seen it suggested that seriously ill patients offered a hospital bed turn the
>> offer down to relieve pressure on the NHS.
Really? where did you see this?
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>>
>> I'm sure similar is happening all over the place.
>>
My brother said loads of wholesalers who normally supply pubs, restaurants etc near him have switched to home deliveries all advertised through fb. Seems to have worked pretty well, bit less choice but that's it.
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I see many of the caring, sharing left are taking to twitter to wish Boris Johnson dead from his dose of Covid 19.
Not that such nasty little turds are confined to one side of the political spectrum, of course. But one has to despair, I'm sure it hasn't always been like this.
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But one has to despair, I'm sure it hasn't always been like this.
Im afraid it has. Social media just make it more visible.
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>>Im afraid it has. Social media just make it more visible.
Actually Social Media gives turds the chance to say stuff without being smacked in the mouth and the opportunity to find other like minded turds that in previous times would have been kept apart.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 27 Mar 20 at 17:02
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Boris is far from my favourite politician, but both Mrs Z and I both said hope it's not too bad and he gets better soon, the moment we saw the news!
What is up with people!?
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What is up with people!?
The same thing that always been up with them. Just look at what goes on in the world: murder, criminal behaviour of all sorts, sexual abuse, vicious wars, rape torture, genocide whole peoples left to starve. Online abuse is a comparatively minor problem. Humans can be nasty. Its in their DNA
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>>Humans can be nasty. Its in their DNA
Yup. If I were the Great Architect I'd be pretty disappointed with the way my humans had turned out.
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We are surely proof that he cannot exist? Or that if he does, he's a bit of an incompetent, uncaring git.
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>> We are surely proof that he cannot exist?
Well of course God might simply be evil or uncaring but if we are talking about the loving God of Christianity the explanation offered is that the world God created was free of evil and suffering and man was created with free will. Man chose selfishness instead of following the way of God and thus brought about the fall bringing evil into he world. Thus the state of the world is the fault of man, not God.
That’s the theory.
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So either (s)he doesn't exist, or is effectively totally irrelevant to humanity.
Seems about right.
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>> So either (s)he doesn't exist, or is effectively totally irrelevant to humanity.
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>> Seems about right.
>>
Religion is proof of the cleverness of the few and the gullibility of the many.
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"murder, criminal behaviour of all sorts, sexual abuse, rape"
And that's just Michael Barrymore.
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>> Michael Barrymore.
I like Barrymore. The whole thing is a terribly sad and probably unjust course of events.
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"Actually Social Media gives turds the chance to say stuff without being smacked in the mouth and the opportunity to find other like minded turds that in previous times would have been kept apart."
The same group that go round filming such things as 'sensitive' locations such as Police stations in the hope of being challenged and then issuing a torrent of belittlement and abuse at people simply doing their jobs because they can.
Then posting their interaction on social media for the adulation of similar minded muppets.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Cfhm3E95ow
Last edited by: Fullchat on Fri 27 Mar 20 at 20:32
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"The same group that go round ..........."
Of the same mentality as the car load of yobs who wound down their car window and spat at my son while he was jogging to our place to dig my veg patch. My son is 6'5" and fit, but he can't catch a car.
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The same group that go round filming such things as 'sensitive' locations such as Police
>> stations in the hope of being challenged and then issuing a torrent of belittlement and
>> abuse at people simply doing their jobs because they can.
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>> Then posting their interaction on social media for the adulation of similar minded muppets.
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Cfhm3E95ow
There's loads of them about like that, it's just attention seeking. They just need to get a normal hobby.
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>> I see many of the caring, sharing left are taking to twitter to wish Boris
>> Johnson dead from his dose of Covid 19.
>>
>> Not that such nasty little turds are confined to one side of the political spectrum,
>> of course. But one has to despair, I'm sure it hasn't always been like this.
Absolutely Its disgusting behaviour
Now had it been Dominic Cummins who had CV.......
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Hancock and Whitty also showing symptoms.
Unsurprisingly.
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>> Absolutely Its disgusting behaviour
>>
>> Now had it been Dominic Cummins who had CV.......
>>
There was a hilarious clip of him legging it from Downing Street this afternoon. He certainly knows how to look after himself!
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Mother in law is 86 and fitter than I am and on the ball.
She is not on line and only has an "emergency" mobile.
She got her letter from the NHS telling her to stay at home due to underlying conditions and is considered extremely vulnerable and promising food deliveries, though there is no sign of any yet.
(We are sorting out food for her.)
Anyhow, the district nurse called and was quite blunt; if she goes to hospital can she please let her know as soon as, if she wants to be resuscitated!
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"Anyhow, the district nurse called and was quite blunt; if she goes to hospital can she please let her know as soon as, if she wants to be resuscitated!"
Yes - I was asked that when I went into hospital. The question quite flummoxed me but, when I looked up, I was surprised and delighted to see my wife nodding her head.
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>> Yes - I was asked that when I went into hospital. The question quite flummoxed
>> me but, when I looked up, I was surprised and delighted to see my wife
>> nodding her head.
>>
So the moral of the story is, don't miff the wife before going to hospital :-)
That was pretty much our reaction.
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"So the moral of the story is, don't miff the wife before going to hospital :-)
That was pretty much our reaction."
I suspect that one's view of DNR might change the nearer you get to the final curtain. From the age of about 80, my father lost the use of his legs, I believe as a result of something going wrong in his lower spine which affected the nerves controlling his leg muscles. He could no longer tend his allotments and he became more and more morose.
As he approached 90, his misery accelerated again and at every visit, he would exclaim that 'if he had a gun, he would shoot himself'. That wish was repeated to anyone and everyone who went near him until he was in hospital shortly before his death (at 94). The nurse from the prospective care-home came to assess him in hospital while I was visiting; she asked "are you DNR?" He asked what that was, so I explained - "it means do not-resuscitate if it looks like you are on your way". "Oh no, he said, I don't want THAT!".
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I think for most as far as life is concerned something is better than nothing.
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Friend of mine woke up last year to find his wife dead. Phoned 999, paramedics arrived, ushered (pushed) him into another room and spent some considerable time trying to resuscitate her. She was very ill and neither of them would have wanted that. If they'd known about DNR, they would have made appropriate arrangements with their doctor.
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Miss Z texted in apparently it's a disaster in A&E. They are totally overwhelmed.
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A round of applause should sort that out.
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Early evening yesterday I was out for a walk up the hill behind my place. 2 young lads came tear assing down at speed over steep limestone on their mountain bikes. Fall off going at that speed and it’s broken bones, carry off by the MRT and the services of a road ambulance.
I’ve done my share of climbing, scrambling etc but like to think I’d have the sense not to do it in the current circumstances.
And some wazzock was involved in an accident on his quad bike last night in Bury. Essential journey to the vets during lambing time ? I think not. More wasted time for the emergency services.
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>>People gadding about.
About 300 yards from my front door is an 85 acre wood owned by a preservation society.
We walk the dog there as it's fairly quiet and thought it would be perfect in the current situation.
It was up until this week as the central BBQ area is now being used as a meeting point for families bringing their young children who all play together.
The wood doesn't have a car park and the numbers of cars parked on our quiet road has increased substantially including parking on the soft verges and ignoring the signs asking not to park on them because of weak drain pipes. The residents association is considering putting up signs and looking to sue the owners of said vehicles for damage caused, but I suspect it will be an uphill struggle.
Anyway, it just thoughtless and inconsiderate and that seems to be the way society is going.
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>> >>People gadding about.
Our little gateway and corridor of peace and calm is now rather like the M25, the canal towpath is now heaving at most times of the day. Still al the cyclists have decamped to the empty road.
Its the weather, init. The one thing we didnt need to keep people indoors, is a long run of glorious spring days.
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Unfortunately non CV-19 emergencies still present themselves, currently we are still doing the usually high number of hip fractures, lap-appendicectomies, I&D of abscesses (all types), ERPCs (miscarriage) and ectopic pregnancies... all require some kind of surgical intervention and won't go away no matter how bad CV-19 gets.
The only slight reduction seems to be in the number of sport related fractures.
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>> It was up until this week as the central BBQ area is now being used
>> as a meeting point for families bringing their young children who all play together.
>>
>> The wood doesn't have a car park and the numbers of cars parked on our
>> quiet road has increased substantially including parking on the soft verges and ignoring the signs
>> asking not to park on them because of weak drain pipes. The residents association is
>> considering putting up signs and looking to sue the owners of said vehicles for damage
>> caused, but I suspect it will be an uphill struggle.
I'm not a fan of tale telling but that seems a good enough reason to dob them in while the police are still feeling zealous. Unlike lone dog walkers in Northumberland who've driven 2 miles to some empty heath, these people are defying the spirit and intention of isolation by letting their children mix.
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>> Miss Z texted in apparently it's a disaster in A&E. They are totally overwhelmed.
>>
I have been thinking this for a little while.
I have no wish to cause offence, but.....
Do you not think that perhaps this stuff which is only going to worry her parents should be kept to herself?
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If something was causing to my daughter to be in floods of tears I'd want to know, whether I could fix it or not.
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>> If something was causing to my daughter to be in floods of tears I'd want
>> to know, whether I could fix it or not.
The other side of the coin.
Would you want to tell your parents?
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>>Would you want to tell your parents?
Why not?
At nearly 50 my ability to offer advice and support is a damn sight greater than it was at 25.
I'm sure Zippy is no different.
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>> The other side of the coin.
>> Would you want to tell your parents?
My generation (I'm 60) were, I think, less likely to share issues with parents than Zippy's daughter is or mine do now.
I don't know why. Probably partly cultural, stiff upper lip, worse things happen at sea (never mind in the war) etc. But also practical. If I wanted to phone home I has to garner up 10p coins and join a queue for the pay phone in my lodgings or walk down the road to a phone box.
Now we have mobile phones and Whatzap groups and share stuff at will.
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>> My generation (I'm 60) were, I think, less likely to share issues with parents than
>> Zippy's daughter is or mine do now.
>>
>> I don't know why. Probably partly cultural, stiff upper lip, worse things happen at sea
>> (never mind in the war) etc. But also practical. If I wanted to phone home
>> I has to garner up 10p coins and join a queue for the pay phone
>> in my lodgings or walk down the road to a phone box.
I am another generation back from that.
I had to find 2 one penny (old money, of course) coins to make the phone box down the road and round the corner work, and then join the queue.
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My parents didn't own a phone till I was about 5 or 7 IIRC - (i.e. about 1960). I wouldn't have had a problem with that but some of you 75+ year olds may have had that situation. I often wonder how they co-ordinated the large Christmas gathering we used to host. Must've been by mail.
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>> My parents didn't own a phone till I was about 5 or 7 IIRC - (i.e. about 1960).
We didn't have one til the early 1980s.
I had a febrile convulsion when I was 3 or 4 and my old boy kicked next doors front door open to call 999 thinking I was about to die (which I wasn't but he didn't know that)
He was a good guy :-)
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>> My parents didn't own a phone till I was about 5 or 7 IIRC -
>> (i.e. about 1960). I wouldn't have had a problem with that but some of you
>> 75+ year olds may have had that situation. I often wonder how they co-ordinated the
>> large Christmas gathering we used to host. Must've been by mail.
My grandmother and her spinster sisters Florrie and Elsie regularly communicated by postcard and they only lived a mile apart. Next day delivery was reliable if it caught the collection so it might be "I'll meet you at 3 o'clock tomorrow".
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>> I am another generation back from that.
>>
>> I had to find 2 one penny (old money, of course) coins to make the
>> phone box down the road and round the corner work, and then join the queue.
>>
Me too - I can still remember the sound of one dropping in the coinbox when the pips go.
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When I was at boarding school in the early seventies a coin phone was 6d IIRC. The one up the road from our school which we used to queue at to phone girlfriends or family had a broken lock for quite some time (at least a term) though it would appear to be locked and a sharp yank would pull the sliding lid down.
So there was always an after-school race to get up there to empty out the coins that people had put in during the day (not many!!), and also you effectively got free calls as you put your tanner in the slot and retrieved it from the bottom... Can't do THAT with the cashless society!! LOL
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>>When I was at boarding school in the early seventies
>>also you effectively got free calls as you put your tanner in the slot and retrieved it from the bottom...
Way back in the 60s, some rather dishonest schoolboys of my acquaintance, would boast of tapping out local 'phone numbers and thus avoiding payment altogether.
The scoundrels.
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>> Now we have mobile phones and Whatzap groups and share stuff at will.
>>
There is a good argument that people share too much of their lives with others. Whilst sometimes we need to talk often remaining silent would be the better option. Once said things cannot be unsaid. Rushing to tell others of things that best remain unsaid can be a big mistake,
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Our local Waitrose had a good stock of paracetamol on the shelves earlier today.
First I've seen for a good while.
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Today's score:
... the number of people who have died with the virus in the UK rose by 260 to 1,019 on Saturday
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We learned this morning that a friend had just been released from hospital after suffering 'double-pneumonia'. I asked if this was cv related, but apparently he tested negative and was sent home a bit earlier than they would have liked in order to avoid the new cases of cv that were being delivered daily.
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That's grim. Assume they are a day in arrears, taking part of a day to collate.
I have noticed that the figures on www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ are sometimes updated more than once per day.
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My understanding is that those in ICU have about 50-50 chance of surviving.
Those who need a ventilator have 100% chance of death if there isn't one available.
Hence the mass move for ventilators.
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Seems like a very big jump in the number of deaths. Rather worrying.
Currently self isolating as the OH and one of the kids were showing the symptoms of cv19. Thankfully not severe but the OH did have shortness of breath and bed bound for a couple of days.
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>> Currently self isolating as the OH and one of the kids were showing the symptoms
>> of cv19. Thankfully not severe but the OH did have shortness of breath and bed
>> bound for a couple of days.
Please watch them closely and get help as soon as possible.
23 ambulances waiting at the hospital at start of the shift today. Usually there are none.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 28 Mar 20 at 21:04
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> Please watch them closely and get help as soon as possible.
>>
Thanks for that, however they are fine now and the symptoms have gone. In a odd way I hope that they have had as far as is know, it's very rare to get it a second time.
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>>Thanks for that, however they are fine now and the symptoms have gone
There are cases of the symptoms coming back the virus not having got a sufficient hold the first time.
So, as has been said, keep an eye.
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>> That's grim. Assume they are a day in arrears, taking part of a day to
>> collate.
>>
>> I have noticed that the figures on www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ are sometimes updated more than once per day.
Not all nations update at the same time - it seems.
According to the piece at the top of the tables:
"The coronavirus COVID-19 is affecting 199 countries and territories around the world and 2 international conveyances: the Diamond Princess cruise ship harbored in Yokohama, Japan, and the Holland America's MS Zaandam cruise ship. The day is reset after midnight GMT+0".
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So the daily update has just finished...why is this not being broadcast across ALL channels simultaneously?
What possible harm could it do but would surely result in maximum exposure of the message.. I think back to before this started to all of the people who were adamant that they NEVER watched or listed to the BBC!
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If people responding to BBC.com articles is anything to go by there is still a quite sizeable minority who think that the govt is over-reacting over nothing more than a bout of flu. (See www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52056111#comment_138688770 for examples - scroll down, click View Comments)
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A sad reality is that we allow thick people to have keyboards.
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snip quote!
>> Do you not think that perhaps this stuff which is only going to worry her
>> parents should be kept to herself?
>>
Just to put Miss Z in to some context. She's started working in August 2017 - so not even 3 years, lives in a shared house with 2 other junior doctors who have barely seen each other or friends since 13th March due to work. She is 100 miles from home - that's usually 4 hours away.
One junior doctor in her dept seriously attempted suicide due to the pressure last month and others have gone sick with stress. - she needs an outlet - my phone is open to her 24/7.
She never gives the gory or personal details but does call as a release and twice now in almost 3 years a sob from despair when someone she has fought to save has died - no one, but no one, should have to go home alone, without feeling they could show emotion.
It's not surprising the young doctors get overwhelmed and I would rather be a sounding board than not.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 28 Mar 20 at 21:04
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>> It's not surprising the young doctors get overwhelmed and I would rather be a sounding
>> board than not.
It says something about you and your relationship that she feels she can call you when she needs to unload.
I'd rather know than not. I don't want my children to think that they have to shield me from what's worrying them.
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>> It's not surprising the young doctors get overwhelmed and I would rather be a sounding
>> board than not.
I hope you haven't taken umbrage.
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A bit of guidance please..
Son works in construction and his current site closed on Tuesday.
He works for an agency (PAYE so doesn't file a tax return) and we're unclear if he's covered by any of the recent Government packages?
Didn't want to go down the long road of UC just yet if he might get something from his agency, as he's at home with us so at least he doesn't have rent/mortgage to find which is one good thing.
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It won't be till about twelve months after this outbreak has ended that we will know the figures for deaths that are soley due to Covid 19. As many of those who succumb will have been suffering from conditions which means they did not have much longer to live anyway it will only be by comparing year on year death rates that we will have the true number.
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>> it will only be by comparing year on year death rates that we will have the true number.
'Tis a fair point but there will also be less pollution related, seasonal flu and road deaths just to make it even trickier.
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>> 'Tis a fair point but there will also be less pollution related, seasonal flu and
>> road deaths just to make it even trickier.
>>
Is seasonal flu at a low intensity this year?
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I believe 'excess mortality' is the charming official phrase.
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>> He works for an agency (PAYE so doesn't file a tax return) and we're unclear
>> if he's covered by any of the recent Government packages?
If he's on PAYE then he's outside the self employment scheme; that's intended for people who file SE tax returns. If the agency choose they can probably furlough him and claim 80% of whatever they pay him, perhaps some sort of average based on weeks before layoff. We think the teaching agency that employs The Lad's GF is going to do that.
Otherwise it's probably UC (which may not be a long a road as it seems) or, provided he's paid the right NI contributions 'New Style' Job Seekers Allowance.
www.gov.uk/how-to-claim-new-style-jsa
However, so far as I can tell now that will only pay around £74.50 week compared with about £20 more in UC so may need to claim it instead/too. Still quite a few changes to regs in pipeline though.
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Cheers, so looks like UC.
I kept listening to the developments regarding payments to employed then self-employed but didn't catch anything about agency workers (I guess zero hours workers would have a contract and fall under 'employed' so could be getting something).
Shed loads of agency nurses and AHP's will be affected as we stopped using them as the elective ops stopped.. could be a big staff pool to be called upon (at a cost).
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Miss Z just off shift on the CV19 side of A&E... all levels of staff are involved all hands to the pump. Hospital has nearly 700 beds.
She was in good spirts at the end of the shift.
Apologies if I get any medical terms wrong.
Over 20 ambulances waiting on arrival. Miss Z has been working in the query CV19 ambulances as well as the CV19 - A&E department.
They are only allowed full PPE if the patient is confirmed CV19 - i.e. no fit mask and no visor. She has been dealing with patients who she is convinced had CV19 - all the symptoms and no extra PPE allowed save for the normal latex gloves and surgical masks.
Where it is confirmed face shields are allowed. These are not renewed each patient but have to be hand washed in soap and water!!! These are designed for one use only.
WE ARE STILL NOT FULLY EQUIPED WITH PPE! Normal A&E teams do not even have surgical masks.
About 70% of cases are men. There are some young very ill patents.
The hospital has become very ageist. They are just not treating people over a certain age - you older guys here need to stay safe.
People with pre-existing COPD and similar conditions are not being helped - no intubation. I.e. in normal times they could survive. She called her grandparents and ordered them to stay home!
Still not enough ventilators, still not enough PPE equipment.
People are turning up for normal A&E issues too late. Colleagues have reported sick patients leaving it far too long before coming in with non-CV19 issues to the extent that they can't be helped.
Attempted suicides seem to be up. Mainly women stuck at home with an abusive partner and can't get out. One young woman took a bottle of ethylene glycol!
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Part 2...
Re Nightingale Hospital. One of her consultants is an infectious disease specialist who has travelled the world to disease hotspots. He was concerned that the large hospitals would effectively become just huge morgues if the respirators don't arrive - I guess he was just stating the obvious, but sometimes it needs to be said.
I was chatting to a mate over the phone and his niece is a trainee nurse in her second year.
She has been asked if she would like to volunteer to work at the Nightingale. There are no other details yet but accommodation will be an issue, she lives 60 miles from the hospital. There are lots of currently empty hotels near there though.
Miss Z has been told that it is very likely that her new job, due to start in August, will be postponed which is a pain because her current landlord wants his property back at the end of July as he is moving back in to it. She had planned to move in with us for a short time whilst looking for a place locally, but as mentioned up thread - we are 4 hours away on a normal day.
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Sobering update zippy, thank you. No need to answer if you’d rather not, but in what area is Miss Z needing accommodation? In case I or someone else can help in any way.
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>> In case I or someone else can help
>> in any way.
Yes, indeed.
I know of a nice property that might be available within about a week or so.
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>> I was chatting to a mate over the phone and his niece is a trainee
>> nurse in her second year.
>> She has been asked if she would like to volunteer to work at the Nightingale.
>> There are no other details yet but accommodation will be an issue, she lives 60
>> miles from the hospital. There are lots of currently empty hotels near there though.
Accommodation wont be an issue, her rumour mill says some nurses are being asked to volunteer from our local trust and sent up to nightingale, and the deal includes accommodation at the nearby hotels.
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Oh and its a 6 day stint, and you get free food.
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My aunt passed away last night.
79, suspected CV19 but hasn't been well.
Not treated, just made comfortable at hospital.
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Sincere condolences Zippy, won't be able to give her a decent send off either, very distressing.
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While I don't dispute the distressing scenes at A&E, in the scheme of things and the rest of the 60 odd million people in the uk, its a bit like asking an AA man if cars are reliable "Every time I see one its broken mate"
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I'm due to travel 50 miles this Tuesday to Lancaster for an iron infusion, am in a bit of a quandary regarding the risk tho as Anemia is one of the high risk CV factors, but just read that 2 patients have died last night in a separate part of the same unit I will be attending. Wondering which. risk is the greater at present .
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How old are you? If you are 75 or older you will be redirected to the recyling centre.
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Just saw a comment on the recent virtual conference.
www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000gz84/dateline-london-28032020
@20:30
No common statement was issued.
Why ? The US insisted such a statement refers to the Wuhan virus.
I thought the world was all pulling together but Trump is so worried about his second term.
Also See 23:55 for key workers and bats
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8160137/Beijing-blasts-Washington-embassy-China-called-coronavirus-Wuhan-virus.html
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I see Virgin are asking for aid, or at least saying they will.
I think they should be left to sink or swim on their own. If there's a demand for them after this then they'll either still be there or they will be bought up very quickly by someone with an eye for an opportunity.
And since British Airways actually isn't, I probably feel the same about them.
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I'm afraid all Vrgin do is just lose money and add to the over capacity. Its not even as tho they are a British Airline. The Arab owners can bail them out if they want to.
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Makes Bournemouth look like a proper airport with aeroplanes and everything ;)
Though, at £50m or so each in round numbers that’s a lot of capital doing nothing...
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Agreed. And if the capacity goes down, and so the price of flying goes up, that can't harm the environment at all.
Did the shareholders ever say to the British Government "we made extra money this year, here have some extra"? Then why should they expect the reverse?
I am sure that if they put some shares on the market at an advantageous price then they would be bought, probably by another airline. It is hardly the British Government's responsibility that they don't like that option.
As for Branson then he should be able to reap the benefits that his irritating mouth over the years has earned him.
If it was our national carrier, which even British Airways is not, then perhaps. But it isn't.
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The "Daily New Case In The United Kingdom" has slowed. Whether that is a blip, calm before storm, or what, time alone will tell.
Scroll down a bit to the graphs.
www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
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My 85 year old MiL lives 70 miles from us and has been indoors on her own for nearly two weeks, we're on the phone to her daily but she is desperate to go out 'down the shops', she's always been a shopaholic even if just for the smallest thing, and is a constant fidget!
What determines who gets the 'stay at home' letter?
Apart from her age she has multiple issues, cardiac pacemaker, bad chest from numerous years of smoking, on three types of inhalers, massive amounts of daily tablets for the cardiac problems, wet AMD in one eye and low vision in the other, one knee replacement (or is it both?).
Anyhow, she hasn't had any letter, does it come directly from the Govt or her GP?
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Thanks, sort of.... we just need to convince MiL that she is, indeed, in a high risk group and should not 'go down the shops'! So we thought an official letter might help.
Last date seems to be today so maybe it will drop through the door tomorrow.
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If she does get it she will likely get the 'bad' coronavirus rather than the one that's like a nasty cold.
That means pneuomonitis - imagine breathing with your windpipe stuffed with cotton wool - that's why ventilators are in such demand - human breathing muscles can't keep up with that effort for long unaided.
And if you're 85 with heart disease you ain't getting a ventilator it seems.
The letter comes from the govt.
In Scotland many GPs are calling their highest risk patients to scare the bejeebus out of them to stay indoors.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Sun 29 Mar 20 at 19:00
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Interesting, thanks! And is it also the case that if you do have the ‘bad’ version and do get a ventilator, there’s still a less than 50% chance of actually surviving?
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>>is it also the case that if you do have the 'bad' version and do get a ventilator, there's still a less than 50% chance of actually surviving?
This I don't know but it does seem 50-50 is in the right ballpark, with worse odds for starting with a worse set of heart and lungs.
And the time on ventilatory support is an issue too - several weeks is possible for people whose lungs are shot, hence the decision to not escalate some patients to ventilatory care.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Sun 29 Mar 20 at 20:18
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>>That means pneuomonitis - imagine breathing with your windpipe stuffed with cotton wool
Imagine fully inhaled to fully exhaled in a normal world. Then imagine that you cannot take a deep breath in, or breath out hard. There's just a small bit in the middle of the breathing cycle that you can manage. So you try to breath in and out within that small window. It's such a small window that you cannot gain the oxygen or lose the carbon dioxide that you need to.
So you suffocate.
And without a ventilator, you suffocate to death in a world of inner panic and fear with not even enough oxygen to panic outwardly.
Anybody who had ever been there and then survived would not risk going there again.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 29 Mar 20 at 19:37
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I'm not sure of the point of this post.
Whether intentionally or not, might it scare the hell out of those here who are at risk or who have loved ones at risk or who are actually already ill?
I mean, Lygonos has already done a pretty good job of spelling things out.
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Yes let’s think of those who are already scared. No need to be quite so graphic.
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I hope it scares the living crap out of everybody who reads it.
Not everybody is taking all the precautions with their own health, or with the health of others, as they should be.
Feel free not to read.
And if posts now need a point, this place is going to get a lot quieter.
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I will second that, not that I really need to either. I had pretty severe heart failure 2 years ago, main symptom breathlessness.
I literally couldn't breathe lying flat and couldn't sleep sitting up. I became so tired I had to try and lie a bit flatter to get a few minutes sleep. i would then wake up feeling as if I was drowning, which wasn't far off the truth as I turned out to have at least 6Kg of fluid in my lungs and pleura. At times it felt as if I was making a real effort to breathe and only just getting enough breath. That is frightening because you start worrying about what will happen if it gets any worse. I am very motivated to avoid having that feeling again, and I'm fairly sure a severe case of COVID-19 would be worse.
Please take it seriously.
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I doubt that there is anyone who reads this forum and not understand the seriousness of the disease and the need to comply with the Government rules and needs to be shocked into compliance. There are however some who are struggling to come to terms with the imminent likelihood of their own or loved ones deaths. It is unnecessary and a little unkind to go into a graphic description of the possible end of their life. I do however realise that empathy is not your strong point.
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Don't care what you think, couldn't give a jot for your approval or lack thereof.
Get over it, get used to it, surprised you haven't already..
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 29 Mar 20 at 21:44
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Your response says it all.
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Worldometers have added another column to their table showing date of first case. So again, you can filter upwards or downwards.
www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
France's first case was one week before us and on the forecast growth is about in line with us for total cases and deaths.
Italy's first case was one day before us, so they should be roughly in line with us. They aren't!! What happened? Did they not wake up to the seriousness of the problem until much later? Seems likely.
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I wouldn't pay too much attention to those numbers. If true they mean that nearly every person in the UK that gets CV, never recovers.
In short, the source is not verified
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Yes, yes.
But what am I supposed to do with myself all day?
I haven't got an old persons caravan to play with!
I do not need to practice my reversing!
My missus is is not so fed up with me that she has come out of retirement and gone back to work!
Hmm?
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>> Yes, yes.
>>
>> But what am I supposed to do with myself all day?
Talk to BBD about that.
>> I haven't got an old persons caravan to play with!
Its a young persons caravan, apparently I am now supposed to take up scuba diving, par ascending and mountain biking according to the sales blurb
>> I do not need to practice my reversing!
Nor do I, on my drive backwards at second attempt.
>> My missus is is not so fed up with me that she has come out
>> of retirement and gone back to work!
We are bored, we had a full social life and chock a block calendars. Yours I guess just had a block on Thursday - Pension day - visit Spoons.
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>> >> I do not need to practice my reversing!
>>
>> Nor do I, on my drive backwards at second attempt.
>>
(....demolished neighbour's garden wall at first attempt......)
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No, but complete lack of traffic in my road made it much less of a "make a tit of myself" worry.
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Remembering back to when I had a 'van I was pretty good at reversing in the end but reversing it onto the drive was nearly always a problem.
It had to be fairly precise as I had to go onto the drive straight then kick it round a tree to be nearly parallel to the road. I was admittedly quite slow, I took up the whole road in the process and the camber down the road to the gutter and then up the pavement made it quite difficult. I always felt pressured when stopping traffic, and also SWMBO was never that good at giving me useful directions.
I always managed it in the end though, and we (initially the family then later me and mates at various events) had some great times with it. On the run up to retirement SWMBO was thinking we might get ione to travel the UK but thankfully she's off the idea now (nothing to do with the virus), though they are much more comfortable and better equipped than ours was. We don't have a suitable tow car any more either...
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You don’t need a caravan to do that Zeddo....
Runs for cover sniggering
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>> No, but complete lack of traffic in my road...
Interesting. Is that unusual?
I ask because being very bored, I listened to the traffic outside at 7am today. It's a road that leads from two small villages, past us, and ultimately to the A14. It's not really a route anyone other than those village residents would be using one would imagine.
I counted one vehicle about every ten seconda, which is about 360 an hour of course.
As I sit here now, late morning, it's the same. If anything, more.
So essential journeys and key workers still add up to hundreds of cars per hour here, all the time.
Goodness I need to find something to do.
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>> We are bored, we had a full social life and chock a block calendars. Yours
>> I guess just had a block on Thursday - Pension day - visit Spoons.
You evil man. You just said that about Wetherspoons to hurt me - didn't you?
You know my local 'Spoons closed some time ago - but you keep sticking the knife in!
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>> You know my local 'Spoons closed some time ago - but you keep sticking the
>> knife in!
Which is more than you could do with their steaks.
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I am very sorry that my post seems to have caused some upset.
I just thought that NoF's description of death was possibly going to trouble some people here who didn't need it. Most on this forum are probably well informed and take the whole coronavirus thing seriously.
Sorry anyway.
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Don't worry about it James, I think you've been around long enough to know the characters here and how things tend to play out.
No doubt it did bother some (I'll admit it made me uncomfortable but I didn't regard it as needing moderating) but they are mostly a fairly resilient bunch here.
No further discussion required from anyone on the matter please!! :-)
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>> I hope it scares the living crap out of everybody who reads it.
>>
>> Not everybody is taking all the precautions with their own health, or with the health
>> of others, as they should be.
>>
>>
Agreed.
We need to take this seriously and people should be fully aware of the possible consequences if we don't. We spend far too much time now worrying about telling it like it is in case we upset or offend people. Reality check badly needed.
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I keep seeing in the news this chap based in the ME, claims he could have sold 15k to the NHS and then 5k a week. He seems to have got his name in a bit of the press, I can't help but think he's not all he's making out to be. In a normal year the world output is 2k a week.
No doubt there's plenty of chancers out to fleece governments around the world.
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After its over.... - Zero
