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Ongoing discussion
604073
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 28 Mar 20 at 02:56
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metro.co.uk/2020/03/24/new-nhs-hospital-open-excel-centre-12450548/
The new Nightingale hospital will have 4,000 beds and will be ready in days. Effectively converting the ExCel Centre.
Birmingham's NEC says that they stand ready should they be needed.
The planners in Wuhan are probably kicking themselves as they have several exhibition centres there that probably could have been used - unless they were already in use!?
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>>The planners in Wuhan are probably kicking themselves
I shouldn't think so.
A hospital built from scratch in 10 days without repurposing anything. The first a purpose built hospital with 1,000 beds, 30 intensive care units, 4 quarantine wards and special patient/room isolation facilties with the second, and 30% larger, hospital opening 48 hours later.
Versus a converted exhibition centre converted into a "makeshift" hospital (their words) with initially *500* beds which hasn't yet been delivered. The 4,000 beds are decribed as "eventually available".
Now, whilst I am not belittling the British efforts, what is it that you think the Chinese planners should be kicking themselves about?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 25 Mar 20 at 02:16
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>> Now, whilst I am not belittling the British efforts, what is it that you think
>> the Chinese planners should be kicking themselves about?
Building one that fell down and killed a load of patients inside?
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>Building one that fell down and killed a load of patients inside?
Wasn't that a hotel they were using for quaranteen? Not one of the hospitals.
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Maybe the newly invented ventilator in this Beeb article from a day or so back was a bit Heath Robinson. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52008745
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Maybe so but better than nothing.
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Caught a bit of "More or Less" on R4 this morning. I was in and out of the car so I only heard bits of it, but apparently your chances of dying from this virus are directly related to your chance of dying in the next year anyway.
Should be available on iplayer.
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>> Caught a bit of "More or Less" on R4 this morning. I was in and
>> out of the car so I only heard bits of it, but apparently your chances
>> of dying from this virus are directly related to your chance of dying in the
>> next year anyway.
>>
>> Should be available on iplayer.
yes much double counting going on
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Prince Charles tests positive for CV
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52033845
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I was just saying to SWMBO earlier this week, it would be ironic if it swept The Royal Family, and Harry ended up back in line for the throne.
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Tests available for the Royal family but none for front line NHS staff.
Bring on the revolution.
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>> Tests available for the Royal family but none for front line NHS staff.
>>
>> Bring on the revolution.
Plenty of tests available for front line NHS staff
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" Plenty of tests available for front line NHS staff "
Utter, utter deleted - you know why.
I have family on the front line who can't get any. Untested unprotected paramedics are dealing with virus patients too.
I've given masks to a front line who was so grateful.
Again, get your head out of the sand.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 25 Mar 20 at 15:18
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Go stick your head back in the daily express, you are so shut off from reality you know sweet fa.
I have a wife going back into nursing, you think she would have agreed if she hadn't checked it out with about 15 of her mates still nursing. There are plenty of tests available for front line staff,
Go back to you cave and come back when its all clear, frankly we dont need panicky whining twonks like you/.
Oh and BTW why did you suddenly bring in the bit about masks?
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 25 Mar 20 at 15:12
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Put your willies away and stop the bickering.
Disagree by all means, but not like silly children.
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....AND he's self isolating in his 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th home........
;-)
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With regard to testing and the Oxford study cited above, what is tested when you have the current test for Coronavirus? Is is just whether you currently have the virus or does it also pick up antibodies showing you have previously had it?
If it's the latter then the Oxford study can presumably be refuted or supported very quickly from existing data. Even if it's a completely different test then has no govt or health service already done these? All sound like half a tale to me.
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>> With regard to testing and the Oxford study cited above, what is tested when you
>> have the current test for Coronavirus? Is is just whether you currently have the virus
>> or does it also pick up antibodies showing you have previously had it?
>>
>> If it's the latter then the Oxford study can presumably be refuted or supported very
>> quickly from existing data. Even if it's a completely different test then has no govt
>> or health service already done these? All sound like half a tale to me.
I believe its both, but people dont get tested unless they present with symptoms. I dont think its a good idea to test everyone, with all the social mobility that would require. Hence its an incomplete statistical mishmash at the moment.
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I think the plan is/was to do it via the post in a simple kit form. How you could identify who really should take the test, to see if you've had it and recovered I don't know.
You probably end up with loads of people who coughed once a month ago wanting one.
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There arein fact two tests. Their purpose is different.The current swab test indicates whether or not you currently have the virus. It does not show if you have ave had the disease and recovered.
The new tests of which Matt Hancock tells us he has ordered 3,500,000 tests for antibodies in the blood and will therefore tell whether or not you have had the infection.
www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/coronavirus-antibody-test-what-is-it-virus-blood-nhs-matt-hancock-covid-19-a9423571.html
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Wed 25 Mar 20 at 15:32
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I wish the tests were available here.
But two points which mean that this isn't as obviously useful for the individiual;
1) Nobody is sure how long your immunity lasts nor how strong it is.
2) Nobody is sure at what point you become non-infectious.
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"But two points which mean that this isn't as obviously useful for the individiual;
1) Nobody is sure how long your immunity lasts nor how strong it is.
2) Nobody is sure at what point you become non-infectious."
That's why last week (or the week before?) when the head honcho of the WHO was ranting "TEST, TEST, TEST!!!", I was shouting at the telly 'WHAT, WHEN, WHO???"
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I can only assume that your television is getting a migraine.
Testing is perhaps not so useful for the individual, but it is very very useful for the country.
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>> I wish the tests were available here.
>>
>> But two points which mean that this isn't as obviously useful for the individiual;
>>
>> 1) Nobody is sure how long your immunity lasts nor how strong it is.
>> 2) Nobody is sure at what point you become non-infectious.
1) which means no-one is (yet) sure if you can get it again and in what time period.
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Yes, that was my point.
If it's like flu, then reasonable level of resistance for about 6 months.
Of course, the world will have been cleaned out of those most likely to die from it. So that and at least some resistance will make a massive difference.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 25 Mar 20 at 16:02
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MODS - Kindly delete my log-in.
I'll go somewhere else and avoid that moron on here.
" Go back to you cave and come back when its all clear, frankly we dont need panicky whining twonks like you/. "
With pleasure Zero
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Thank you Im sure somewhere else will quickly tire of your hysterical uniformed rants
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 25 Mar 20 at 15:31
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>> MODS - Kindly delete my log-in.
No need to. You surely have the self control not to log in if you don't want to.
>> I'll go somewhere else and avoid that moron on here.
To be frank, you started it with the aggressive post you made, and even now are making personal comments toward them.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 25 Mar 20 at 15:41
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This is not an airport. There is no need to announce your departure.
Though that seems very little to flounce over. If you give Zero some time then he can be proper offensive, not just a little bit grouchy.
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>> Though that seems very little to flounce over. If you give Zero some time then
>> he can be proper offensive, not just a little bit grouchy.
Oh good, grouchy is ok, the mindfulness is working
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"To be frank, you started it with the aggressive post you made, and even now are making personal comments toward them."
Interesting. I can't find anything that Dulwich said that gets close to "panicky whining twonks like you", which is pretty personal and unpleasant.
Don't understand why the twonk comment or the whole post wasn't deleted by the mods. Or is it OK to put that if you think you've been the subject of an aggressive post?
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>> "panicky whining twonks like you", which is pretty personal and unpleasant.
It's not really, is it. Unless you're a very delicate flower.
The grouchy old sod has called me *much* worse than that, and I've managed to get through it. I've probably done the same to him, though he's always much less right than me.
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>> >> "panicky whining twonks like you", which is pretty personal and unpleasant.
>>
>> It's not really, is it. Unless you're a very delicate flower.
>>
>> The grouchy old sod has called me *much* worse than that, and I've managed to
>> get through it. I've probably done the same to him, though he's always much less
>> righteous than me.
>>
There fixed that for you, its a subtle difference
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>>There fixed that for you, its a subtle difference
Fair. You're known for your love of subtelty.
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>> Interesting. I can't find anything that Dulwich said that gets close to "panicky whining twonks
>> like you", which is pretty personal and unpleasant.
There is a pre existing pattern. Check out the whining one about everyone coughing on him
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>> Interesting. I can't find anything that Dulwich said that gets close to "panicky whining twonks like you", which is pretty personal and unpleasant.
Dulwich's first post further up was anything but polite, which then set Zero off.
I asked the pair of them to stop bickering and if they must disagree with each other, then do so in a more polite manner.
Despite my request, Dulwich then went on to call Zero a moron, which was an unnecessary personal comment.
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>>
>> Despite my request, Dulwich then went on to call Zero a moron, which was an
>> unnecessary personal comment.
>>
Could be worse. Could’ve called him a minion
>>
>>
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Just watched Boris Johnson's meeting/broadcast.
To me he still seems to be doing what he should; following the advice of his experts, not doggedly sticking to previous statements and leading well.
The press do show themselves to be exactly what they are; cockroaches and vultures desperately seeking to cause a reaction or comment with emotive and prejudicial language that they can then report with outrage. God knows what kind of society we have become that we want our journalists to behave in this way.
Though clearly that's a place where Corbyn is also comfortable to be. Clearly he will slip happily and easily back into the place he's lived for the last 30 years in sniping from the back without any need to deal with the real world.
Our journalists are almost as big a disgrace as the people that buy their stories and pictures. Most of our politicians are not far behind.
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Sadly true, Mark. The purpose of the newspapers is to sell as many copies as they can. Calm, reasoned reporting get in the way of that.
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A week ago getting tests for front line staff was very slow, now it is just slow.
At the moment tests are done on:
1. NHS and care staff with symptoms who are isolating - if negative they can return to work.
2. Family members of the above who have symptoms - if they are negative it means the healthcare worker can RTW.
3. Patients requiring hospital level care with symptoms of Covid - if positive they are kept away from those who are negative.
At some point an antibody test will be available which will show who is immune (ie has been exposed to Covid and has had an effective immune response) whether or not they have symptoms - this will initially be for critical workers only.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Wed 25 Mar 20 at 18:11
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>> A week ago getting tests for front line staff was very slow, now it is
>> just slow.
What's the sort of turnaround time?
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>>What's the sort of turnaround time?
Was 7-8 days now 5-6 days.
Expecting faster as more capacity builds although this will be tempered by more disease prevalence.
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Was 7-8 days now 5-6 days.
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>> Expecting faster as more capacity builds although this will be tempered by more disease prevalence.
>>
I was watching the news today, quite alot of the extra capacity is due to some equipment from a uni in Cambridge. On its own it can test 8000 samples per day.
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>> A week ago getting tests for front line staff was very slow, now it is
>> just slow.
Testing and coping with the CV varies a lot by trust and by area* There are some trusts who have a crap reputation going into this mess and are not covering themselves in glory, some have a public face of competence and excellence but everyone in the NHS knows its undeserved (one would shock you) some are good and proving to be so, and others who went unnoticed are going either way. The area you cover of course makes a huge difference, Currently our trust are turning round front line CV tests in 24-48 hours from notified need. I realise our area may atypical, or it may be representative of many areas.
*generally this was true before they were stressed by the outbreak.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 25 Mar 20 at 19:29
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The press do show themselves to be exactly what they are; cockroaches and vultures desperately
>> seeking to cause a reaction or comment with emotive and prejudicial language that they can
>> then report with outrage.
I noticed that today on the 5pm, some of questions seemed little more than loaded questions which were unlikely to add any extra information from the answers.
Although the put down of one of journalists (i think ch4) by the CMO made me smile.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Wed 25 Mar 20 at 18:22
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If these journalists showed half the sincerity, intelligence and expertise in their role as the experts did, maybe we would learn something.
Last edited by: martin aston on Wed 25 Mar 20 at 19:01
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I wholeheartedly agree.
The one problem is that they are doing exactly what their paying public want them to do. Which is why it is pretty much impossible to stop.
The public much prefers outrage to education.
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When there is but one subject in the news, its tough to stand out, and its getting tougher, so the crap will get worse
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I see all the papers every day. The only things I bother to make a point of reading now are Alex and Matt in the DT (But I'll own up to a glance at page three).
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If the questioning this afternoon was anything to go by then I fear that you are correct.
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>The press do show themselves to be exactly what they are;...
Emily Morgan, the ITV News' Health Correspondent is really getting on my mammaries.
A few days ago during the Downing St. briefing she asked Boris if he could guarantee (her emphasis) that NHS staff would not catch the virus. What a dumbass question?!
After today's briefing she was in the studio directly contradicting statements made by Chris Whitty who, in response to a question about mass testing, had said (paraphrased) 'We are currently testing the accuracy of the different tests. This is a virus which did not exist until a few months ago and a bad test is worse than no test. You will not be ordering these tests from the internet within the coming days until we are confident of their accuracy.'
What did Morgan have to say?
"The Government have been in talks with Amazon and Boots and you should be able to order Corona Virus tests online soon although there has been no statement from the Government on how the results will be collected."
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"Here is the brief and sensible question that you already accepted, and, if I may, this is the longer, ridiculous tabloid question that I really wanted to ask".
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The lead author of the Imperial report into Corona Virus seems to have changed his mind.
Instead of the 510,000 deaths and ICUs totally overrun he's now predicting that "..intensive care beds will get very close to capacity in some areas, but won’t be breached at a national level.." and "UK deaths from the disease are now unlikely to exceed 20,000, he said, and could be much lower."
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I saw that too.
Reading a Have Your Say under a Beeb article today, a lot of people will be even smugger and more offensive if their call-out that this is all being overblown turns out to have been correct.
I couldn't believe how many people appeared not to understand or were wilfully ignoring what is mostly, for the majority at least, pretty clear guidance form the government (e.g. do not go out).
Though in all honesty, I'd quite like it to be over sooner rather than later, with fewer deaths etc.
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>> a lot of people will be even smugger and more offensive if their call-out that this is all being overblown turns out to have been correct.
A large chunk of our population is badly educated and unaspirational.
That will always be a problem whatever goes on.
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>> A large chunk of our population is badly educated and unaspirational.
Almost half have below average intelligence. (i.e. below the median).
Last edited by: Duncan on Thu 26 Mar 20 at 05:44
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>> >> a lot of people will be even smugger and more offensive if their call-out
>> that this is all being overblown turns out to have been correct.
I shall not miss the opportunity if it arises,
>> A large chunk of our population is badly educated and unaspirational.
Although they were right?
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>> >> A large chunk of our population is badly educated and unaspirational.
>>
>> Although they were right?
>>
Right about what?
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Many don't seem to be able to get past the fact that not every response from the government is not only instant but perfect.
Even when everything isn't going to hell at the same time that is not a reasonable position.
My brother, a wise owl, has a saying - "you can have it right, or you can have it now, but you can't have it right now".
If the high level of concern turns out to be 'overblown' that will be a nice problem. Certainly better than the opposite, which remains a very real risk - rapid and nasty mutation could mean no effective vaccines in the expected timescale.
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Didn't he originally say 500k if we did nothing, 250k if we did what the Government ws syaing at that time and 20k if we went the whole hog of isolating and distancing?
I might be mixing reports.
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Yes exactly that. The new lower estimate is a consequence of the strict social distancing measures the Government has implemented.
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But is that lower estimate if both social distancing and lockdown continue ad infinitum ?
One of my friends in CA is a teacher, and hearsay amongst her peers and higher up the chain is that there is a fair chance schools won’t reopen until early 2021 in that part of the world.
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California. Sorry, lazy posting.
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California?
Maybe they were asking Alice Cooper?
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...as I see it, they're awaiting the ability to implement widespread testing, and then fall back to robust "containment" (case identification and contact tracing) from a new, reduced base.
If such capability doesn't arrive, or containment proves impossible again, then I think we're in for waves of suppression (release followed by lockdown), flattening the sombrero repeatedly until the technology moves on, or we achieve "herd immunity". Patently, within such waves, the level of lockdown might be different, depending on the peak infection rate observed from this and other such following lockdowns (it "simply" has to be at a level to achieve a manageable ICU demand).
I have a suspicion that the way forward is still going to involve a longer lockdown of the older and more vulnerable, having achieved reasonable compliance to date.
Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Thu 26 Mar 20 at 07:59
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>> then I think we're in
>> for waves of suppression (release followed by lockdown), flattening the sombrero repeatedly until the technology
>> moves on, or we achieve "herd immunity". Patently, within such waves, the level of lockdown
>> might be different, depending on the peak infection rate observed from this and other such
>> following lockdowns (it "simply" has to be at a level to achieve a manageable ICU
>> demand).
>>
>> I have a suspicion that the way forward is still going to involve a longer
>> lockdown of the older and more vulnerable, having achieved reasonable compliance to date.
I think it most likely we will get repeated cycles of on/off unless a gradual relaxation of measures (e.g. restart sector by sector or geographical area by area)can be managed. The most obvious distinction right now is London v. the rest of the nation. London needs extra suppression now but should correspondingly be first to return to normality, by degrees.
Still a lot of unknowns. If infection doesn't confer immunity, perhaps because of rapid mutation, and/or vaccines don't become available then all bets are off.
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>> The lead author of the Imperial report into Corona Virus seems to have changed his
>> mind.
>>
>> Instead of the 510,000 deaths and ICUs totally overrun he's now predicting that "..intensive care
>> beds will get very close to capacity in some areas, but won’t be breached at
>> a national level.." and "UK deaths from the disease are now unlikely to exceed 20,000,
>> he said, and could be much lower."
If he's changed his mind on the basis of the changed strategy/assumptions that's only to be expected without any change to the basic forecasting methodology?
The 250,00-510,00 were predicated on letting it rip less or more.
20,000 was Vallance's target for the suppression approach which he came out with about 10 days ago.
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On Sunday, Manatee posted a link to this fascinating presentation of Italian data which is updated daily ... it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemia_di_COVID-19_del_2020_in_Italia
If I look at the bar chart for long enough, I can just about imagine a slight levelling of the curve - and on the smaller chart, there is the start of a reduction in new cases. Is this the result of the crackdown on isolation? It has been said that we are about a fortnight behind Italy so, with our crackdown on isolation and because of the new cases in the pipeline still incubating, we might see a proportionate reduction in new cases in 10-14 days. By placing our actual numbers alongside the Italian figures, we ought to be able to predict when our peak will occur and how many patients will be involved.
This is the nearest page that I can find that is the equivalent to the Italian page, though it doesn't have the additional 'new cases' line.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_the_United_Kingdom
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I haven't the time to trawl now but I thought we'd seen a graph a few days back which compared UK v. Italy. From Lygonos IIRC, and obviously may be a bit out of date.
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Italy is not the curve you should be scared of, Spain? now that a different matter.
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I have a mate who works and lives abroad - he has no home here, and no permanent residence anywhere abroad either.
He was working in Milan but cleared out pdq once the virus hit so returned to his current "home" in Madrid...
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"scared of"
Are you a journalist in your spare time, Zeddo?
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This was it, well out of date but the data must be around to update yourself.
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=27728&m=603802
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"Here's a more up to date graph."
Interesting, thanks.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 27 Mar 20 at 02:53
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>> On Sunday, Manatee posted a link to this fascinating presentation of Italian data which is
>> updated daily ... it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemia_di_COVID-19_del_2020_in_Italia
>> This is the nearest page that I can find that is the equivalent to the
>> Italian page, though it doesn't have the additional 'new cases' line.
>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_the_United_Kingdom
Both those orange curves are too near perfect to be true? No?
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"Both those orange curves are too near perfect to be true? No?"
The perfection of the Italian curve is what prompted my reaction to Manatee's link when he first posted it ("An amazing curve"). I am assuming that the perfection of the curve is due to the large sample numbers.
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This is the one I get from Worldometers. It's a bit bumpy, which is what I would expect.
www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
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"This is the one I get from Worldometers. It's a bit bumpy, which is what I would expect.
www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/"
Good link, it has the 'new cases' line.
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>> Good link,
Yes, it is.
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Early stats from Singapore suggest their economy is likely to contract 10% compared to the same quarter in 2019.
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>> Early stats from Singapore suggest their economy is likely to contract 10% compared to the
>> same quarter in 2019.
Estimates here of 20% have been bandied about.
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>> Estimates here of 20% have been bandied about.
Very hard to estimate, one bank was suggesting 25% for italy and possibly the same for the US if they don't get it under control.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 27 Mar 20 at 02:51
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Just been on the Morrisons website on the off chance to see if any home deliveries were available.
No, there aren't - I wasn't expecting any.
To change a basket though, you have to join a queue and there are 164,276 people in front waiting to access their basket!
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Tour de France: Sports minister considers Tour with no spectators
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/52050109
Answers on a piece of paper :-(
Last edited by: henry k on Thu 26 Mar 20 at 14:31
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The race runs on public roads, goes through cities, towns and villages.
Good luck with that.
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>> The race runs on public roads, goes through cities, towns and villages.
>>
>> Good luck with that.
My thought exactly. Having attended a fair few stages the crowds, even around start/finish lines in urban areas, would be impossible to control. Never mind the groups gathering at every rural crossroads.
And how would sponsors be without the 'caravan de publicite' which is so much part of the spectacle?
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"Answers on a piece of paper"
A piece of toilet paper?
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I see CPS have said that they will prosecute as quickly as possible people who spit or cough at key workers claiming that they have cv19.
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SWMBO reports it is now fine-able to go out driving without it being for one of the allowed purposes. I.e. I can't now drive across town to get to one of the nice walks we use
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A number of Police Forces (including our local one) have now published explicit advice that it is illegal to drive somewhere for the purposes of either starting exercise, or walking the dog; both must be done directly from home.
Luckily, I have access to a good expanse of open country within a few hundred yards. 7.5 mile walk this morning in the beautiful sunshine.
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>> Luckily, I have access to a good expanse of open country within a few hundred yards...
Same here thank goodness. Canal towpath pretty much directly behind the house. We can walk for miles without having to be on a road.
Going to have a proper look at a map and work out a circular cycle route on the network of country lanes hereabouts.
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I find Viewranger a great app (in it's free version) for working out footpaths and walking routes. I'm pretty sure it's also good for cycling.
It also records a host of info if you record your activity - start/finish time, distance, speed, altitudes, total climb/descent.
I find planning a walk with it is easier on the POC (larger screen) but having it active when walking means you keep on track.
It also saves your history, and you can search other peoples walks (though some need subscription to download).
You can pay for upgrades to include OS maps too but the built in mapping is fantastic and pretty reliable for showing paths, even abroad.
www.viewranger.com/en-gb
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Thanks Smokie, just had a quick glance at that link but it certainly looks like it'll be interesting and useful.
That's the next couple of hours filled in anyway !
;-)
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Tried that website, no walking routes at all round here according to it. A few cycle tracks and routes on public roads.
Although we live in a semi rural areas there's not a huge amount of places to go walk the dog. They all have car parks and very few places to park nearby. However it's dead around our house at the busiest of times anyway, I doubt more than 2 or 3 cars go down our road per day anyway.
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I use Maverick on Android, it has the huge benefit it has a set of OS maps as an option, which if you need open to the public paths is the definitive resource
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Sooty the routes on there have been uploaded by people. Most of my routes were found in books and online resources, not in the app. The app is useful to augment the walks rather than locate them, or to make up your own. If you do that you can share them in the app for people to download.
There is a concept of tracks and routes, broadly I think tracks are your personal ones whereas routes are tidied up tracks which people upload. The app tidies them.
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>> >> Luckily, I have access to a good expanse of open country within a few
>> hundred yards...
>>
>> Same here thank goodness. Canal towpath pretty much directly behind the house.
Exactly the same here*, I can walk to Basingstoke (why would you?) for 33 miles one way, Littlehampton the other, or if I Like 343 miles to Ripon another way, without using a single road.
*my local canal also has the immense benefit that cyclists have to give way to pedestrians, even dogs. A ting means nothing there.
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I don't ride on the towpath at all. ( you will no doubt be pleased to know ) ;-)
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>> I don't ride on the towpath at all. ( you will no doubt be pleased
>> to know ) ;-)
Not in great condition round here, also too much dog carp and too many fishing poles in the season. Friend of mine had a major altercation with an angler when he tripped and stood on one and it broke. The angler wanted a four figure sum in compo. I was amazed to discover how much you can pay for one.
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>> Not in great condition round here, also too much dog carp and too many fishing
>> poles in the season. Friend of mine had a major altercation with an angler when
>> he tripped and stood on one and it broke. The angler wanted a four figure
>> sum in compo. I was amazed to discover how much you can pay for one.
I wonder if fishing is banned? If they have their large poles over the towpath, I just stand there till they move them, the dog raiding their lunchbox seems to focus their mind.
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Not seen anyone fishing along "our" bit of canal this morning. Runners, dog walkers and walkers about as usual. A few cyclists. Everyone I encountered being sensible about the distancing thing though.
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Edit above - This is beginning to feel like a trial retirement. Who knows, it may well be the beginning of the real thing if circumstances dictate.
On a beautiful spring morning like this, I can see the appeal well enough, though I imagine a wet, cold morning in November holds less attraction.
Not really missing the God awful o'clock alarms, the daily slog on packed motorways etc.
Getting a few withdrawal symptoms from Greggs though...
;-)
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"... a wet, cold morning in November holds less attraction."
At a different time, that's what abroad was made for... :-)
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Having endured a damp, grey and miserable winter that's why this current situation is so much harder.
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>>
>> Getting a few withdrawal symptoms from Greggs though...
>>
...run a bit of spare cardboard under the tap and munch on that.....
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These are the regulations applying during the 'lockdown' phase:
www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/pdfs/uksi_20200350_en.pdf
Reg 6 deals with us all being confined to our homes. EDIT Cross posted with Smokie.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 26 Mar 20 at 17:03
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Just watching the daily briefing, who decides what order the journalist get to ask questions? The BBC seem to get the first question everyday.
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Self Employed to get up to £2500 per month.
It's quite a benefit.
Sort of working and listening at the same time, did I hear that tax and PAYE will be brought up to the same levels as employees so as to create a level playing field?
Seems we are offering one of the most generous bail out schemes in the world. I must admit Rishi Sunak comes across as very sincere and competent.
I guess taxes must rise once this is all over to pay for it, or inflation will rise due to quantitative easing.
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Are all these payments from the govt taxable I wonder? If not, I wonder if I have a larger tax free allowance on drawdowns from my pension this and next tax year?
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>> Are all these payments from the govt taxable I wonder? If not, I wonder if
>> I have a larger tax free allowance on drawdowns from my pension this and next
>> tax year?
>>
Yes he said the grants would be taxable.
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> Sort of working and listening at the same time, did I hear that tax and
>> PAYE will be brought up to the same levels as employees so as to create
>> a level playing field?
>>
Pretty much, he made the point that if people want to benefit from government support they should support the government and the discrepancies between taxation was something that would be looked at.
Seems entirely fair to me.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Thu 26 Mar 20 at 17:55
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>> Just watching the daily briefing, who decides what order the journalist get to ask questions?
>> The BBC seem to get the first question everyday.
I have no idea how it is done during this crisis, but in the past....
There are press secretaries and journalists. There are lots of favours done between them. Some times you may be requested to ask a particular question. Sometimes you may be asked not to ask a particular question. sometimes you may wish to be treated favourably, sometimes you may be willing to take a back seat to help.
It's all quid pro quo and favours. And it takes some considerable effort and compromise to live on the desirable end of the list.
Media companies also are able to give and expect favours, give and take pressure and seek or give preference.
Networking, of which this is a part, is not about seeking people who could be valuable to you, it is is about seeking people for whom you could be valuable. People do not do you favours because they want to help you, people do you favours because they would like favours from you. And so one needs to be in a position to give before one will receive.
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>> I have no idea how it is done during this crisis, but in the past....
I did wonder if it was all on a nod and a wink (so to speak) i guess the answer is yes.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 27 Mar 20 at 02:54
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Kind of, yes. More quid pro quo really. Not much downside to it and almost always above board, and kind of self balancing.
The only thing is that if one is inside that group at that time and one also reads/listens to the media, one can get very annoyed about the difference and discrepancies between what is and what is reported, tainted as it is by what the media wishes to say to it's audience or what it's audience wishes to hear.
The unadulterated and objective truth is rarely available.
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Where in the regulations does it say you cannot travel by car to a place of exercise?
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Dunno CGN but "Coronavirus: North Yorkshire Police begin road checkpoints" www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-52050477
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How quickly we could descend into a police state. I read today of a kindly soul who reported his neighbour for going out for a run twice in one day.
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>> Where in the regulations does it say you cannot travel by car to a place
>> of exercise?
>>
It doesn’t... but I expect people are conflating 6.2 (b) and 6.2 (f) and inferring that as 6.2. (f) sets out reasonable excuses for travel, that those are the only reasonable excuses for travel. But as drafted they’re not IMO.
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Whine whine, I know we wanted it, but whine whine it's working against us whine whine we want the EU back when we need something whine whine.
www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-52052694
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 27 Mar 20 at 02:55
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>> Whine whine, I know we wanted it, but whine whine it's working against us whine
>> whine we want the EU back when we need something whine whine.
That’s the British public for you...fickle!! However, as I understand it the EU scheme is simply sourcing from existing manufacturers, who don’t have any, or rather who are building as fast as they can...and we already have orders placed with those manufacturers. The efforts by G Tech and others in the U.K. are creating new capacity for making simple ventilators quickly aren’t they? I think Fiat are doing the same in Italy?
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 27 Mar 20 at 02:55
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>> However, as I understand it the EU scheme is..........
You are quite correct about the facts, it is more the emotion that I was focussing on.
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>> Whine whine, I know we wanted it, but whine whine it's working against us whine
>> whine we want the EU back when we need something whine whine.
I'm not sure many in the article wanted to leave and are now want the eu back/help?
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 27 Mar 20 at 02:56
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I read somewhere in the last few days that the EU will eventually be in a much stronger position economically than us as they are a club who will bind together and pool resource whereas we are now in isolation and have only our own resource to draw on.
It was put better than that but you know what I mean
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"... the EU will eventually be in a much stronger position economically than us as they are a club who will bind together and pool resource..."
That cuts both ways.
Apparently Spain's economy, already weak, is projected to be in even deeper you-know-what after this virus thing has blown through. And Italy's too, presumably. The rest of the EU will have to support them.
I can't make any direct comparisons, but the UK might not end up being substantially worse off.
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There is a link on the Beeb website to let you look at how many cases are in your postcode.
Wokingham has been 13 for the past 4 days or more.
I doubt the absolute figures can be relied on at all, as anyone with mild symptoms should be simply self-isolating, and no-one is any the wiser.
So I suppose the figures are those where they are "serious", and have somehow reached the system. but again I think it unlikely that it's been static here for days.
Not really sure what my point is except how unreliable the stats are. Probably erring on the "favourable" side.
I think I read that in Italy they are giving up doing any post mortems on people who clearly had it due to the system being overwhelmed. Extreme circumstances call for extreme measures I suppose.
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>> Did you open the door and clap at 8pm?
>>
>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-52054745/clap-for-our-carers-national-applause-for-coronavirus-health-workers
>>
Yes, for Miss Z and all the others, here, Europe and everywhere else in the world who are doing their best in the most difficult of situations.
God bless 'em all!
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Yes, as did most in our street
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No.
Much too soon. we haven't even got into the wood, let alone out of it.
I also forgot.
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Been watching all of the comments but held back from posting for a while so sorry if want I say is way out of date…
The CV-19 big update that happened on Monday which put us into 'lock down' only seems to have been broadcast on BBC1, as an important National update surely it should have gone across ALL stations including radio and satellite, I really wonder how many of people actually saw it? (sorry if this is wrong but I briefly looked at the TV guide and only saw it on BBC1)…. also nice to see No10 relying on good old BBC in this tough time.
Testing… this is taken directly from my Trusts twice daily email update "currently we are testing 140 staff PER WEEK (my capitals) to confirm if staff have CV-19, if they are positive then they should stay at home for 7 days, on the 8th day if they feel well enough they should return to work" (as far as I can tell no retest is needed), as I've mentioned before our tests go to a central pathology centre for SW London and the turn around time is still 5+ days.
On a good point, my hospital has just made staff parking temporarily free and allowed us to park any where onsite including the visitors car parks… as it were our staff parking was about to change on the 1st of April with reduced number of spaces and the monthly charge raised to £60 (plus £30 annual permit)!!
Tomorrow the wife is sending me to make our first visit to my local supermarket for a 'weekly' shop, I've been told they have stocked shelves but the queues are long with restricted numbers going in (which is what I would hope and expect), I've also been told I can 'go to front of the line' as an NHS worker… this totally goes against the way I am and will make me so embarrassed! (apparently they also have 'behind the counter' items for key workers).. we shall see.
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Got an email from Costco saying from tomorrow til a week on Sunday they'll be opening an hour early solely for NHS worker access.
I'll head to Edinburgh at 9am Monday as we'll be needing fresh produce by then.
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>> Got an email from Costco saying from tomorrow til a week on Sunday they'll be
>> opening an hour early solely for NHS worker access.
You'll (and my missus who got the costco account because she was then in NHS) will be allowed in at 10:00am during the traders time. Its going to be a bit of an eyeopener if you have never seen the traders stocking up.......
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I had a trade card for Costco. I let it lapse in Jan as we hardly ever went there in the past two years. I believe they are quite well stocked at the moment.
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>> I had a trade card for Costco. I let it lapse in Jan as we
>> hardly ever went there in the past two years. I believe they are quite well
>> stocked at the moment.
>>
One of the ones near here was on the news because of the queues, a couple of hundred people waiting outside. However that was a couple of weeks ago, what it's like now I don't know.
The restricted movements on everyone seems to have calmed down all the panic buying as we can now get home delivery slots. Got a choice of two supermarkets in the next week. Last week couldn't get one for love nor money at any of them. Hopefully people have calmed down a bit.
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>>You'll (and my missus who got the costco account because she was then in NHS) will be allowed in at 10:00am during the traders time.
Edinburgh has let personal account holders in at 10am since about 1999 (I joined in 1998 and once was told to come back at 12 - had a wander round Roslin chapel and went back) - I think most small businesses will get better prices at other casg and carry places like Macro and Bookers.
Presumably they're tighter on the 10/12 opening time in busier stores?
I'll let you know if I rock up at 9 and it's shut.
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I get the restrictions we now need to adhere to. It's just a shame that we are moving from a society where anything that is not forbidden is allowed to one where anything that is not allowed is forbidden.
Legally I may be wide of the mark but it feels that way to me.
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Typing this from the long queue into supermarket. Just couldn't go in front of the over 70s!
At least it's sunny but only 2 degrees. Still in my shorts so stick out like sore thumb!
Hopefully get a shop for family of three.
I think gin was on offer which I was going to get and put away to make sloe gin in autumn for first time, hope booze is not limited!
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DO NOT buy Larios gin or Zeddo will be on you like a ton of bricks.
Yesterday I was drinking G & Ts on my patio.
My shoulders are broad and I’m not scared to say it was Larios 12 in the blue bottle with aroma of citruses and orange blossom. There. I’ve said it now. Proper Schweppes of course.
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Mrs B has just done a bulk buy of Isle of Harris gin:
harrisdistillery.com/pages/isle-of-harris-gin
Best for our taste. Not necessarily with tonic - a splash of kelp water is good too.
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>> Mrs B has just done a bulk buy of Isle of Harris gin:
Stuff and nonsense.
Gin is made in London.
Likewise Whisky is made in Scotland.
You realise you could be excommunicated for saying what you said Bromp?
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>> Gin is made in London.
London Dry Gin should be made in London
Plymouth Gin should be made, well you know where, Standard or Navy Strength,
UK wise that should be it
Jenever from Belgium is acceptable
>> Likewise Whisky is made in Scotland.
Exactly! Not Gin.
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>Plymouth Gin should be made, well you know where, Standard or Navy Strength,
>UK wise that should be it
Hey! Bombay gin is made near Basingstoke.
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>> to make sloe gin in
Ribena for adults. (vomit emoji)
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>> I get the restrictions we now need to adhere to. It's just a shame that
>> we are moving from a society where anything that is not forbidden is allowed to
>> one where anything that is not allowed is forbidden.
>>
>> Legally I may be wide of the mark but it feels that way to me.
>>
>>
That’s pretty much the long and short of it. And what’s really concerning is that already some police forces are being over zealous and going far beyond the powers they’ve temporarily been given...if, that is, the reports in the press and social media are true...
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That’s pretty much the long and short of it. And what’s really concerning is that
>> already some police forces are being over zealous and going far beyond the powers they’ve
>> temporarily been given...if, that is, the reports in the press and social media are true...
>>
That might well be an issue, however I do have some sympathy with them. Any grey area or flexibility that the government gives some people will take the mick and stretch any flexibility to breaking point.
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>> That’s pretty much the long and short of it. And what’s really concerning is that
>> already some police forces are being over zealous and going far beyond the powers they’ve
>> temporarily been given...if, that is, the reports in the press and social media are true...
They can be as Zealous as they like, but at the end of the day they simply dont have the resources to enforce it, by a very large margin.
So you are the police, what do you do given your task. You make a LOT OF NOISE at the outset, while its relatively quiet workload wise. Hoping that will work you then go for some fat target rich hits, high publicity, maximum bang for minimum buck. This weekend, Coastal resorts, National Parks, Tourist spots* . That should work for some time, repeat at irregular intervals as required.
*meanwhile the rest of us can safely toddle off to the nearest common, park round the corner (ignore the car oark where a state trouper might cruise in hoping to pick off a lone victim) and do our dog walkies as required.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52062209
Here's the latest on going out for exercise. Derbyshire police seem to kicked off a debate about how far to travel for a walk.
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>> Presumably they're tighter on the 10/12 opening time in busier stores?
Strictly enforced down here, Certainly the case in Southall, Farnboro, Sunbury,
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To Sainsburys this morning at 7.30; joined a queue of about 10 couples. NHS staff going in and out. Let in at 8.00 on the dot, don't know how many got in at the first shout.
Fully stocked fruit and veg stands.
Pretty much everything I wanted. There were toilet rolls, but no tinned veg or pasta.
People trying hard to keep away from each other.
Check outs marked out to keep distance.
Out by 8.30, queue of about 40 couples waiting.
Sainsburys seem to have this sorted.
No idea what it's like the rest of the day, shan't find out.
All together calm experience
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>>Strictly enforced down here, Certainly the case in Southall, Farnboro, Sunbury,
Further email today from Costco for clarification - it is an hour before usual trade opening time: ie normal trade opening 10am, NHS access from 9am.
Need Costco card plus proof of NHS employment.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Fri 27 Mar 20 at 11:17
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My energy supplier, Octopus (did I previously mention free £50 each if you sign up via my link? LOL) have published some quite comprehensive data on how home energy usage has changed since social distancing and working from home began. It's based on one week of half hourly data from 115,000 smart meters (which I know are the spawn of the devil as far as some are concerned).
I thought some here might be interested in the detail.
octopus.energy/blog/domestic-energy-usage-patterns-during-social-distancing/
Unrelated, somewhere around this I found the comment that "most people use statistics like a drunken man uses a lamp-post - for support, not illumination" which amused me.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52060791
Much as he wouldn't be my choice of leader I think he is doing a Good Job and I wish him well for a speedy recovery (as I do for all who catch it).
Last edited by: smokie on Fri 27 Mar 20 at 11:30
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well, one and half days after the emergency legislation got the royal assent, Mrs Zed is now an active registered nurse again, (with her old NMC number) and has been told to expect a video call from the regional health authority resource placement team.
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>>Mrs Zed is now an active registered nurse again
Well, for what it's worth, she has my admiration and gratitude.
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>> >>Mrs Zed is now an active registered nurse again
>>
>> Well, for what it's worth, she has my admiration and gratitude.
>>
And mine!
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Well done and thank you to her. May she stay safe.
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Yes Zeddo. May you both stay healthy and her return to the profession is appreciated by all of us .
Last edited by: legacylad on Fri 27 Mar 20 at 21:17
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..... and my best wishes go with her. Well done!
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Or to put it another way, she would clearly rather spend her time working in direct contact with those sufferering from a highly infectious and potentially fatal disease than stay at home with...
;-)))
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Thanks Mrs Zed! Sincere best wishes!
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>> Or to put it another way, she would clearly rather spend her time working in
>> direct contact with those sufferering from a highly infectious and potentially fatal disease than stay
>> at home with...
>> ;-)))
we have already discussed alternative sleeping arrangements, just in case! (i think) I go and collect the basecamp tomorrow, it will go on a the drive, and hooked to the mains with plenty of gas, its an alternate home
She is finding and sorting all her specialist and competency qualifications, her old enhanced CRB check is being deemed valid, she will need to be tested for Covid 19 first.
News from the local trust, some experienced nurses are being stripped out to go and man the Florence Nightingale emergency unit, will be put up in local hotels. My sons company has put in a quote for the environmental monitoring on site, which will include the path lab and mortuary.
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>>some experienced nurses are being stripped out
They've clearly changed the induction process since I was last in the UK.
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>> They've clearly changed the induction process since I was last in the UK.
Amazing how red tape can suddenly be cut in terms of crisis.
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>> I go and
>> collect the basecamp tomorrow, it will go on a the drive, and hooked to the
>> mains with plenty of gas, its an alternate home
Which bit of regulation 6 of the The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England)
Regulations 2020 do you think covers that?
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>> Which bit of regulation 6 of the The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England)
>> Regulations 2020 do you think covers that?
The bit that says I am not one of the dickeads congregating round the fish n chip shop in Brighton this weekend.
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>> Which bit of regulation 6 of the The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England)
>> Regulations 2020 do you think covers that?
>>
Seems sensible, read a few reports where hospital staff have separated from their immediately family or are having separate living under the same roof.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 28 Mar 20 at 02:53
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Couldn't believe the two video clips on the evening news showing 'drive-by' birthday parties for two children who obviously weren't able to meet their friends and family... what!!! and that was broadcast on TV!
Surely all of the people taking part will have a talking to about making essential journeys only.
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>..experienced nurses are being stripped out to go and man the Florence Nightingale emergency unit,
Guess where a Nightingale unit is being prepared for NHS Scotland.
The mothballed IBM Greenock building.
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Doh! - zippy
