Looking at arrivals at LGW it would appear that several attempts at landing have gone around in the last few minutes.
Any other interpretations of this?
www.flightradar24.com/BAW61T/23cdc645
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Scroll down for a muppet in a 'not go anywhere 4x4' in a Maserati
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-51433870
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Looks as though he's tried a couple of times and abandoned although neither track follows what I'd expect from a normal missed approach - climb in runway heading. VIR58 has just done same thing, looks as though they're struggling to be stable at 1000feet?
A Vueling Airbus got in though.
BAW61T is now holding at 8000feet, either he's waiting for the wind to drop or he's talking to the company about diversion. EDIT - looks as though he's giving it one more go.
The Norwegian Dreamliner, NRS6GY, has been round the hold and is now climbing and heading off to north east. Clearly diverting, possibly to Scandinavia - he's too high and too far north for it to be Schipol.
EDIT: Cross posted with Sherlock.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 9 Feb 20 at 08:59
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Meanwhile at Leeds, notorious for wind on its hilltop site a c700 feet, flights are cancelled, although some got away earlier.
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BAW61T landed after 4th? approach. At what point does fuel become an issue?
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>> BAW61T landed after 4th? approach. At what point does fuel become an issue?
Depends how much he's carrying. There's a minimum amount that must remain available at landing. I suspect given the weather was forecast well in advance they will have carried extra for holding/diversion.
NRS6GY, presumably the same as he's now off German/Danish coast at 40,000 feet. Oslo bound by look of it.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 9 Feb 20 at 09:13
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BA from Vegas has gone around more conventionally from low altitude.
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Also some aborted approaches at LHR
www.flightradar24.com/AFL2574/23ce27d8
I thought the bad weather was not due in UK South until midday. (Sitting here smugly in the sunny SofF).
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>> I thought the bad weather was not due in UK South until midday. (Sitting here
>> smugly in the sunny SofF).
BBC forecast for Northampton is for the hooley to keep blowing until around 20:00.
Birmingham airport has taken a diversion from Luton but some of its own departures have been delayed because of gusting cross winds. Birmingham's runway, like that at Leeds, is aligned SE/NW so not into prevailing W/SW wind.
The inbound FlyBE from Edinburg has returned without landing.
Meanwhile NRS6GY eventually landed at Copenhagen.
Still blowly @ LGW, BA from Cancun gone around and now holding.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 9 Feb 20 at 10:08
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Livestreaming this afternoon at LHR from bigjet.tv - some very hairy moments (was watching it in conjunction with flightradar24 so could see what was on the way. BA82 actually touched down and then had to take off straight away - was veering off the runway).
Rather a lot of footage though..
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Well at LHR this morning in BAs T3 lounge at 9 there were only 8 cancellations showing on the screens in the lounge (2 screens, so maybe 50 flights?). However the short haul operation has far more I think - I’d heard about 25% of flights cancelled overall. Am onboard but on the ground (expected to depart in the next 10 minutes) - the plane is rocking about on the stand though!!
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Trains...
Miss Z has spent a weekend away with her uni friends (arranged long ago) and the train companies have effectively abandoned her.
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Oh. Didn't she read the papers over the past few days?
Can't say I blame the travel companies for choosing to somewhat de-risk, when they can, even though it may have caused some inconvenience. I expect it's much worse for them if a train has an accident, or all the rolling stock is ion the wrong place for Monday morning.
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>> Oh. Didn't she read the papers over the past few days?
>>
>> Can't say I blame the travel companies for choosing to somewhat de-risk, when they can,
>> even though it may have caused some inconvenience. I expect it's much worse for them
>> if a train has an accident, or all the rolling stock is ion the wrong
>> place for Monday morning.
>>
Yes, but the tickets and accommodation had been booked long ago. She took the train as it was supposedly safer.
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It probably was safer, seeing some of the pics of carnage on the telly (though they include stuff blown onto railway lines). But at the end of the day I don't think you can really blame the train companies for taking the safer option.
Loads of people will have pre-booked stuff, it's just one of those things. I often make a choice to have a non-refundable hotel room to save a few bob but there is always the risk that something unexpected will impact.
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>> Yes, but the tickets and accommodation had been booked long ago. She took the train
>> as it was supposedly safer.
Network Rail and the ToC's have been warning for at least 72 hours that disruption is expected. There is a blanket 55 mph speed limit on all the network, all planned work had been cancelled to have crews ready for incidents, Power failures and line blockages are expected. Currently three out of 6 routes in or out of Guildford are blocked.
YOu cant blame the rail industry, they have done as much as possible, This is probably the best planned storm we have had as there was quite a bit of advanced warning and it was nationwide in scope.
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>> Miss Z has spent a weekend away with her uni friends (arranged long ago) and
>> the train companies have effectively abandoned her.
National Rail, the outfit formerly known as ATOC and individual operators were trailing probability of disruption today for most of yesterday if not earlier including advice not to travel.
Not too much of a surprise if they cannot operate either trains OR replacement buses right now.
My son is travelling from Manchester back to Liverpool after deciding to 'chance it' staying in MAN after a concert last night. If I'm called on to step into role of transport coordinator, as I often do other family members have train trouble, he'll get help but no sympathy.
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My daughter and friend were all booked to see Waitress ,a musical, down in London. Thursday saw a re-evaluation of plans as Hull Trains were cancelling services on the Sunday. Coaches seemed to be the alternative transport but it was decided that it would be wiser to cancel cancel.
To be fair theatre postponed the tickets. Still waiting to contact Hull Trains regarding refund both ways as single tickets were purchased.
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Reports of three lines being blocked by kid's trampolines being blown out of gardens.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-51436805
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And as a brief update now we’re in the air... a very uneventful takeoff but bit more turbulence than usual 20 minutes in to the flight... And while I don’t think we’ll hit the speeds of the 747 that made it back from JFK in under. 5 hours, we’re going faster than usual I’m sure...it says 1,069 Kmh ground speed, which isn’t bad for an old 777 200!
Last edited by: PeterS on Sun 9 Feb 20 at 11:06
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>>And while I don't think we'll hit the speeds of the 747 that made it back from JFK in under 5 hours...
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51433720
Ground speed peaked at 825mph (1325kph)!
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LGW still having problems.
Arrivals pretty sparse but there's an Iberia flight in the Willo hold and an Emirates A380 that made one missed approach been round Timba hold several times.
Royal Air Maroc 737-800 just gone around. Like the A380 and several others, he's aborted at 1000feet or so, presumably struggling to be stabilised at that point as SOP's require.
Widebodies seem more troubled than A320/737 siize kit.
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The worst of it seems to have passed here. We are now down to "A bit windy".
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Ciara blowing hard in Poole but the negative ions are lovely and I feel well for once. I just wish she would blow a bit harder and take down the Corsican pine in my garden. In about ten years it has reached a height of about 50-60 feet. It is subject to a protection order and I was refused permission to fell it as it was "too young".
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>> LGW still having problems.
>>
>> Arrivals pretty sparse but there's an Iberia flight in the Willo hold and an Emirates
>> A380 that made one missed approach been round Timba hold several times.
Emirates tried again and aborted again. Diverted and now on ground at Zurich. Looking again at FR24 my original not stable at 1000' call is well out. They were giving up at around 2,000 and maybe five miles.
There's a question on Spectators Balcony section of PPRUNE as to how it works on a day like this.
Interesting to see if anybody answers.
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Meanwhile RYR from Gdansk to Leeds has diverted to Glasgow.
Quietened down here in last hour. Trickle vent on bedroom window not longer whistling and the letter box isn't banging.
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Pride of Hull returned from Rotterdam overnight. Due to dock at 07.00 but unable to do so. Went back out into North Sea with another attempt at 15.30.
Looks like it may succeed, as I type the sky is turning blue and wind is subsiding.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Sun 9 Feb 20 at 14:24
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When I worked for P&O Ferries staff got proper discounts - free foot passenger crossings, very cheap pints at the bar and £2 for 200 fags and a bottle of spirits (this was in proper duty free days).
So most Thursdays the IT dept took off for France after work on a non-landing crossing instead of going to the pub, We often took something like Trivial Pursuits and had a thoroughly good evening, coming back with a litre of spirits and 200 fags and having only spent about a tenner.
The best were when it was too rough to get back into Dover harbour so we'd stay out at sea, close to the coast, being held in position by tugs pushed up against the side, until the wind dropped a bit. Had a few late nights on that one!!
Last edited by: smokie on Sun 9 Feb 20 at 15:32
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We shouldn't be surprised at the rail and aircraft operators.
They have known the storm was coming for several days. Travellers also knew it. Complaining about delays and cancellations in the circumstances is plain pointless waste of energy.
And the rail, air, ferry operators know that they have every justification for playing safe and avoiding risk. A few late arrivals is insignificant compared to the fallout in terms of public inquiries, court cases and insurance losses that would give management some real grief.
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Didn't have any plans for today, so just stayed in. Had a couple of trees blown down as well as the usual fences and bins blown about in the street but nothing more serious.
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>>
>>
>> And the rail, air, ferry operators know that they have every justification for playing safe
>> and avoiding risk. A few late arrivals is insignificant compared to the fallout in terms
>> of public inquiries, court cases and insurance losses that would give management some real grief.
>>
>>
As they say, "If you think safety is inconvenient and expensive, try having an accident".
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Power here went off just before 16:00. Text message from Western Power says my be off until 23:00. Mrs B thought she heard something come down.
No heating; gas but needs leccy for pump etc.
Have gas hob and makings of evening meal. And more than four candles :-).
Beer and gin in kitchen, Mrs B getting red wine.
Ice should be OK for a bit.
Also Facebook says both pubs have power.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 9 Feb 20 at 16:18
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>>Also Facebook says both pubs have power.
That's Sunday's roast sorted then!
Mate popped around and dragged me out to Timpsons to have his car key fixed.
It's at a Morrisons so I got us breakfast in the cafe there.
An Asian family came in for lunch and the place cleared!
I wasn't going to leave my sausages and bacon though!
On a more serious note, the local news (Meridian) had a story about an absolute GIT who went surfboarding in the Channel today and had to be recused sans his surfboard at Rye Bay.
He should be locked up for putting so many lives at risk!
Last edited by: zippy on Sun 9 Feb 20 at 16:31
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>>He should be locked up for putting so many lives at risk!
No, if he wants to surf it then good luck to him. I've done similar.
However, he should be charged for the rescue. And charged what it cost, plus a risk premium, plus a profit.
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>> No, if he wants to surf it then good luck to him. I've done similar.
>>
>> However, he should be charged for the rescue. And charged what it cost, plus a
>> risk premium, plus a profit.
Not sure I agree with that. If somebody get's out of their competence in fine weather then rescue is little more than a live practice.
If they're just stupid and lives are put at risk turning out a lifeboat or the ASR chopper then I don't think paying for it is the answer.
At least he should be named in press like drink drivers.
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>>At least he should be named in press like drink drivers.
You quite clearly have no idea of the mindset.
I've sailed such a storm, worse perhaps, in 1987 (I think). I was named and shamed in the press. We were just off Stokes Bay. There were three of us. There's a couple of places that you can find that newspaper report, one of which is my parents living room wall.
Frankly you could say you'll charge me if I need rescuing, or just say you wouldn't rescue me, like I would give a s*** either way. There are some opportunities one just has to take.
So, you either have to leave the guy out there and not rescue him, or rescue him, stop whining and make him pay. What you're not going to do is guilt him into your way of thinking on the matter.
Your idea of "shaming" will not be his. Or mine. Or anybody else who likes similar sports.
p.s. As it happens I have been rescued once. I was in a F6/7 off-shore, sailing out of Calshot and snapped my mast about 5 miles out. That wasn't in the news, afaik.
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>> >>At least he should be named in press like drink drivers.
>>
>> You quite clearly have no idea of the mindset.
I guess there are several different scenarios:
A competent sailor sets out in challenging conditions and while challenged they're coping but a member of the public thinks they're in trouble and calls 999
They set out and conditions worsen or some technical issue renders them stuffed
They set out in conditions so unsuitable that decision to launch is in Darwin Award territory
Yesterday's rescue seems to me to be in third of those groups.
My son in law sails, often with my daughter as crew. I can imagine him being bitten by (1) or (2).
In fact I recall him setting out at age 18 on Coniston somewhat ill advisedly with a Mirror in blustery conditions. Something broke leaving him in middle of lake with little or no benefit from the sail. Managed to get it ashore somewhere near Brantwood but it took a while and his Mother was not amused.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 9 Feb 20 at 17:53
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As a competitive windsurfer you want to sail the most extreme conditions you can. You need to find out how good you are, what you can cope with, and most of all, what it's like.
I am, perhaps was, extremely competent. I have though, sailed on the edge. When one is on the edge, then things can and do go wrong.
But, when you're successful, or sometimes when you just survive, and literally conquer something, then the feeling afterwards is indescribable.
Not everybody thinks that way. Some do, some don't. You clearly don't. That's not a value judgement, just different people.
I terminally broke a Mirror sailing from Hill Head to the IoW. The wind was so strong* it eventually tore the mast out of the hull. Brilliant fun.
*Well, strong for an ageing mirror. It'd have been no problem and quite fun on a windsurfer.
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> I terminally broke a Mirror sailing from Hill Head to the IoW. The wind was
>> so strong* it eventually tore the mast out of the hull. Brilliant fun.
>>
>> *Well, strong for an ageing mirror. It'd have been no problem and quite fun on
>> a windsurfer.
>>
What's a mirror in this context?
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A small one-person dinghy. They've been making them for years. A very common boat to learn to sail in for various youth type organisations and schools.
More than you want to know...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_(dinghy)
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 9 Feb 20 at 18:18
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Right, thanks. I used to work with someone who was quite handy in something similar, he was pretty handy. Went to all manner of European and world championships. I think he aimed for the Olympic team, don't think he quite made though.
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>>I used to work with someone who was quite handy in something similar,
They're a bit s*** and quite slow. Consequently they are all about the skill of the sailor. Often used for what they call "one design" races.
Low cost of entry, easy opportunity for competitive sailing for pretty much anybody who wants to have a go. Often used on lakes, but I don't do lakes. Unhealthy stuff, standing water.
Good dingy sailors are great to watch. Especially in light winds, funnily enough; strong winds can cover up a multitude of failings.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 9 Feb 20 at 18:52
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Used to watch the Mirror races off in the Menai Straits from Beaumaris - it was a great afternoon and evening out.
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>> Used to watch the Mirror races off in the Menai Straits from Beaumaris - it
>> was a great afternoon and evening out.
I suspect son in law to be took part in some of those.
He and Bromptonette took part in Mirror Championship 2009 in what I think was Pigwelli :-)
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I did my RYA "Competent Crew" course in the Solent. We had moored for our last night in Cowes when a force 8 blew up the next morning and the coastguard were warning everyone to stay ashore.
Our instructor was a (soab) major in the army who had done the Southern Ocean Challenge and he decided it would be a good opportunity for us to practice mooring stern-to into the wind and handbrake turns in the narrow marina. Lots of worried boat owners watching four newbies getting dangerously close to their expensive toys.
He then had us sail back across to Port Solent in a F8 with a running tide, perfect conditions for pitchpoling. One of the other learners lost her bottle and refused to take the helm.
Once inside Portsmouth harbour it was still very blustery. Not blustery enough to stop him wanting us all to pick up a mooring buoy and repeat our man overboard drill though.
Pretty scary at the time but good prep for later.
Last edited by: Kevin on Sun 9 Feb 20 at 19:33
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>> I did my RYA "Competent Crew"
Miss B is working towards Competent Crew right now.
As well as sailing what is now a Laser with her husband she will also be on a much larger yacht, currently in store at Largs jointly owned by her Father in Law and a couple of other keen sailors from his circle of friends.
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I did mine in one go. I think the practical side of it was five days. About £300pp many years ago for four of us on the boat. Damn hard work though because Captain Bligh really pushed us.
We all hated him but he was just dropping us in the deep end to see if we were serious, something I appreciated later.
Boat was a brand new 36ft Beneteau.
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>> >>He should be locked up for putting so many lives at risk!
>>
>> No, if he wants to surf it then good luck to him. I've done similar.
>>
>> However, he should be charged for the rescue. And charged what it cost, plus a
>> risk premium, plus a profit.
And charged with manslaughter should any rescuer die in the attempt.
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>>And charged with manslaughter should any rescuer die in the attempt.
Not if he didn't ask you to rescue him.
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>> >>And charged with manslaughter should any rescuer die in the attempt.
>>
>> Not if he didn't ask you to rescue him.
He is seen in the sea in trouble from the land. No-one is going to risk life and limb to get out there and ask if he wants to be rescued, or sign a waiver.
Nope, he is seen in trouble from the land, the coastguard is called, and a team will go and rescue him. Thats the way it works, thats the way its always worked and thats the way it should work and that is why the p rick shouldn't be out there in weather like this,.
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>> get out there and ask if he wants to be rescued,
Actually in some circumstances, and assuming that you are conscious and aware, they do exactly that. And sometimes people say no. They can force the issue also under certain circumstances and override you.
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>> >> get out there and ask if he wants to be rescued,
>>
>> Actually in some circumstances, and assuming that you are conscious and aware, they do exactly
>> that. And sometimes people say no. They can force the issue also under certain circumstances
>> and override you.
Only if it is safe to do so, todays weather conditions makes that option a non starter. All parties knew it.
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According to the newspaper the local lifeboat almost capsized on route.
There's a pretty dramatic video.
Of course they are robust craft that self right as I understand it.
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local lifeboat almost capsized on route.
One of my friends in the RNLI reckoned it's a boat out job after that incident to check the hull (or something nautical)
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> Not if he didn't ask you to rescue him.
>>
I don't think there's any other option than them coming out to him. There's no opt that I'm aware of, I think it's safe to say this chap would be aware of that. So his choice of wanting to be rescued or not isn't particularly relevant.
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On a more serious note, the local news (Meridian) had a story about an absolute
>> GIT who went surfboarding in the Channel today and had to be recused sans his
>> surfboard at Rye Bay.
>>
>> He should be locked up for putting so many lives at risk!
>>
I saw that, I think a SAR helicopter went, a couple of lifeboats and a coastal rescue team all went out. He was found in a nearby bay alive.
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"Also Facebook says both pubs have power."
I'd be out checking them right away!!
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It seems to have blown out here, light gusty breeze is left
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Same here...it went quiet after 1300 - and the sun and blue sky appeared. Loads of roads flooded in the area. St Asaph has just been hit now by the water from the hills, the little city is cut off and houses being evacuated. This is after the fatal flooding of November 2012 and millions have been spent of flood prevention works in the last seven years. All have been swamped in the last few hours. The next village, Rhuddlan, has been flooded, again it was flooded seven years ago, since then there has been major building in the flooded area - including a massive Aldi store...not sure if that bit has copped it again......maybe they should have taken the hint from the village's castle's architects and built it on a little hill
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Pal of mine due to fly out LBA >ALI tomorrow, so hope he makes it as aircraft are probably not all where they should be.
I flew out 20/01 with my ole Mum...Storm Gloria dictated we flew to Murcia rather than ALI. 17 hours door to door. Flew home with her 01/02, a spirited landing into LBA with a serious wobble on and lots of screaming passengers.
How she laughed. A fellow wheelchair passenger was sobbing with fear. No fun if you’re a nervous flyer
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Pedant mode on... ALI is Alice Springs which, I’m sure is very nice this time of year but a lot further than ALC ;) Murcia is MJV or RMU, depending on whether you want the old or new one!
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And I always thought FLG was fat little git......at least that’s what my tee shirt said
You live n learn
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Ciara - bad weather Aircraft - sherlock47
