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Having been brought up to refer to old pence as pence, I continued to refer to the new (decimal) pence as pence. I understand that the government and the treasury were appalled when they found that most of the population referred to new pence as pee.
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2p or not 2p, that is the question.....:-)
Always used pence.
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>> 2p or not 2p, that is the question.....:-)
At my age there isn't a choice. :-(
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I hate people who use the term "one pence" - for me 2 and above are pence a penny us a penny. I have been known to revert to the older tuppence or thr(u)eepence but draw the line at grots etc !
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>>..a penny is a penny>>
Yes, quite agree on that point.
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Is this an old thread resurrected? I remember this debate going on (in pubs in those days) in about 1974.
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You must be a youngster to remember that.
I thought most of us here lost our memories along with our marbles. That's why it always seems so fresh. ;>)
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>> I prefer pennies myself.>>
If you are in for a penny, you might as well be in for the pounds...:-)
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15th February 1970 "new pence" as they were officially called were named "nupes" by my fellow apprentices.
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1971 sorry for typo, 13 days before my 17th birthday counting the days down until my little red book type licence became valid. Saturday 27th Feb. went to Coventry with parents to watch Morecame and Wise and was hoping that the drive home would be after midnight so I could drive. It wasn't.
C.Q.
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Bring back fruppney bits I say.
and for the more polite amoung you
tanners, bobs, two bob bits, half a bar, a copper, an apney, ten bob notes, a sprassey etc etc
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>> tanners, bobs, two bob bits, half a bar, a copper, an apney, ten bob notes, a sprassey etc etc
Not be seeing those again.
Pound is the new penny. (in terms of what you can buy with it - cue the three Yorkshiremen sketch: "When I were a lad you could buy....").
The soon to be released 5p and 10p (which don't fit in vending machines due to being 11% thicker) are coated steel.
1p and 2p have been coated steel for a while.
We're all doomed :)
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one = penny (singular)
two (or more) = pence (plural)
pee = an abbreviation of either of the above words or a yellowish liquid secreted after downing thirteen pints of Horshten Kessell Get Pi55ed quick extra strength German lager.
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Sing along now...
Decimalisation, decimalise...
Decimalisation, decimalise...
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A pound is a pound but up here in Yorkshire it's a Quid.
£10.00 = is a Tenner
£5.00 = Is a Fiver
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And isn't there something fishy about £6 ?
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>> A pound is a pound but up here in Yorkshire it's a Quid.>>
So no quod erat demonstrandum?
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Pence and pee if you're at Paddington station. 30 of them to be exact. I didn't have any 30p coins so I decided - correctly as it turned out - that I could wait.
I don't remember using old pennies - my brother and I had a box of them to play with - and I generally use 'pence' and 'p' interchangeably. It's probably 'fifty p' but 'thirty-seven pence', but I vary.
What does set my teeth on edge, though, is 'grand'. OK if you're Arthur Daley, but where I come from a grand is a piano.
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NO. A grand is two Monkey's. Get a grip man, get a grip.
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...A grand is two Monkey's...
Or 40 ponies, or a bag o'sand, or 200 Jacks, or 100 cock and hens, or 50 score, or 10 tons.
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.A grand is two Monkeys...
But why?
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...A grand is two Monkeys...But why?...
Because a monkey, in slang, is £500.
I've heard the term used extensively in the motor trade.
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YesI know, but what is the the simian connection to the amount of £500
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A 500 rupee note had a picture of a monkey on it, apparently, and the 25 rupee note had a pony on it.
Last edited by: Humph D'bout on Fri 10 Sep 10 at 20:34
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sounds possible but their doesn't seem to be any evidence of it in the form of a picture of said note
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Wouldn't know, I'm only quoting from the link I found and posted above. Sounds feasable but may well be rubbish !
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>> ...A grand is two Monkey's...
>>
>> Or 40 ponies, or a bag o'sand, or 200 Jacks, or 100 cock and hens,
>> or 50 score, or 10 tons.
If you are going to try cockney rhyming slang, get it right.
A ten pound note is a "cockle"
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...If you are going to try cockney rhyming slang, get it right...
Cock and hen - 10.
If you're going to try to correct me, at least try to get it right.
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>> ...If you are going to try cockney rhyming slang, get it right...
>>
>> Cock and hen - 10.
>>
>> If you're going to try to correct me, at least try to get it right.
I am right.
Cockney rhyming slang was designed as code speak. To ensure other people could not understand what was being said the rhyming part WAS DROPPED
so
plates of meat = feet ....become plates.
Apples and pears = stairs.... becomes Apples
Richard the third = Bird / turd...... becomes richard.
Bottle and glass = A r s e..... becomes Bottle
Cock and hen = ten becomes cockle.
Tho stranglely some rhyming slang does use both words.
Bull and cow = row Bull and cow is used.
Daisy roots = boots Daisy roots is used.
Tom and dick = sick Tom and dick is used.
People who cant speak rhyming slang are easily recognised by the fact they dont know when to use the rhyme word, and when to drop it.
More tricky is the double rhyme and drop.
So iffy, you are now corrected.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 10 Sep 10 at 22:04
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...So iffy, you are now corrected...
That's a load of tom and you know it.
Rhyming slang exists and develops outside Plashet Grove.
Anyway, I'm going down the rub-a-dub for a quick tumble.
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>> ...So iffy, you are now corrected...
>>
>> That's a load of tom and you know it.
Tom is jewlery. Tom Foolery.
You go for a tom tit, the rhyme is not dropped when describing excrement.
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>>You go for a tom tit
A guy I worked with referred to the activity as an 'Orson', as in horse and trap.
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"To ensure other people could not understand what was being said the rhyming part WAS DROPPED"
Now you're just being a berk
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>> "To ensure other people could not understand what was being said the rhyming part WAS
>> DROPPED"
>>
>> Now you're just being a berk
Dave is of course correct. When using the rhyme "Berkshire Hunt" the rhyme is indeed dropped and the first word abbreviated. Different of course with Barclays (or merchant) Banker, where both words are used in full. Similar with Iron Hoof, where both words are used in full.
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...Similar with Iron Hoof, where both words are used in full...
Tripe - these phrases are not prescriptive in the way you claim.
'He's an iron' was a phrase used in north east London when I was there.
"A ginger' meant the same thing.
It gets even dafter.
'Macaroon' is a rhyming term for a black person, but the more common use is ' macca'.
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>> 'He's an iron' was a phrase used in north east London when I was there.
wrong, "hes a right iron oof" is the correct use. Using the term "an iron" in a derrogative way would get you an ICF visiting card and your boat race re-arranged in plashet grove
>> "A ginger' meant the same thing.
Indeed correct, the first time you have actually got the use right.
>> It gets even dafter.
>>
>> 'Macaroon' is a rhyming term for a black person, but the more common use is
>> ' macca'.
wrong - the c double o n word is used.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 10 Sep 10 at 22:36
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...'He's an iron' was a phrase used in north east London when I was there...wrong.
Fair enough, I imagined it.
Zero, what part of the following phrase do you not understand?
"Rhyming slang is not set in stone, it is used in different ways by different people in different parts of London."
And, I might add, elsewhere in the country - 'two and eight' for 'state' is not restricted to the capital.
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>> "Rhyming slang is not set in stone, it is used in different ways by different
>> people in different parts of London."
As soon as you understand that no-one would say "here is a cockle and ten" in ANY part of london.
Or anywhere else in the country come to that. And as soon as you realise that trying to use the slang in the wrong way makes you sound like a real berk.
(you know what that means now)
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 10 Sep 10 at 22:48
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Wish you two would just go out the ruddy car park and sort it out.......
:-)
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I'd run im over wiv me jam jar.
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...here is a cockle and ten...
Zero,
I've not mentioned 'cockle and hen', 'cock and hen' is the usage I understand.
But that was before I realised there was only one authority on the use of slang.
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>> ...here is a cockle and ten...
>>
>> Zero,
>>
>> I've not mentioned 'cockle and hen', 'cock and hen' is the usage I understand.
>>
>> But that was before I realised there was only one authority on the use of
>> slang.
consider yourself educated then, I am merely tring to prevent you sounding like dick van dyke.
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...consider yourself educated then...
Zero,
If you keep going, you will disappear up your own backside, or should that be 'bottle'?
No, don't tell me. I've got it wrong, again.
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You have actually, one wouldnt use the term in that manner.
One would dispapear up your own "aris"
Now this is a good one
Aris = Aristotle = Bottle & glass = ass.
A classic example of the double rhyme and drop.
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Now you see I've learned something tonight. I always thought that arris came from Harris Tweed. Hadn't realised it was far more classical.
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...You have actually...
That's it, I'm punched out.
A challenging and entertaining bout, as always.
I hope our efforts are appreciated by the wider audience.
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One thing that has mystified most people, is the use of the term "peter" for a safe (as in where you lock up money)
I have no clue or authority where that came from.
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...One thing that has mystified most people, is the use of the term "peter"...
I raised this on here a couple of weeks ago and there were a few suggestions.
In my exhausted state I can't summon the energy to find the link, but others may be able to assist.
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yeah saw them, none of the suggestions on here or the web are really authorative or backed up with good references.
The only TV show that actually got london patois was The Sweeney. Minder was a bit hollywood cockney
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...One thing that has mystified most people, is the use of the term "peter" for a safe (as in where you lock up money)...
I've found it:
...A quick Google suggests there is no definitive answer to this, but a few different solutions present themselves:
1) Cockney rhyming slang: Peter Pan = "can"
2) From St Peter, being a stable person or rock, i.e. unmoving or "safe"
3) From saltpetre or gunpowder; a safe-cracker would have been known as a "petre-man" or "peter-man", so the link could have been made between "peter" and "safe" in that way...
More here:
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=2464&v=f
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Yeah you see, three possible references. Not definitive. No-one really seems to know why , it just is.
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>> ...One thing that has mystified most people, is the use of the term "peter" for
>> a safe (as in where you lock up money)...
>>
>> "peter-man", so the link could have been made between "peter" and "safe" in that way...
>>
>> More here:
>>
Link EH1 as in Saltpetre in the fuse. Boom Boom Basil.
Nice Spat guys, very entertaining.
MD
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I think they were probably dubbed pees to distinguish them from dees, pence and penny being ambiguous just after the change over. Don't forget sixpences (worth 2.5p) circulated for some time.
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>> I think they were probably dubbed pees to distinguish them from dees, pence and penny
>> being ambiguous just after the change over.
I liked the charmingly called LSD system. I still remember the chagrin when I discovered that two bob no longer got me twenty four goes on the penny machines, but just ten.
To this day I often mentally work in old money I'm afraid, and sometimes involuntarily vent my wrath on poor unsuspecting shop assistants when I discover a tiny chocolate bar is a whopping twelve and six or whatever.
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The Douglas Arms has been in the same family since 1913 when Philip and Elizabeth Davies arrived. Philip died in 1915 but Mrs Davies continued running the hotel, with her only son Alfred, and his wife Marjorie taking over after her death in 1936. Geoffrey and Sheila took over in the early sixties as did Gwyn and Christine in 1997.
The introduction of the decimal currency system in 1971 was resisted by the then licensee Geoff Davies - many old customers will remember this! We can still quote you in pounds, shillings and pence if you like!
The Douglas Arms was featured in the first series of "Great Pubs of Wales".
Taken from the website of a pub a few miles down the road from here !
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I tend to refer to pence when I mean the coinage itself so 2p is a 2 pence piece. p is for the amount of money so something would cost 99 pee not 99 pence. Well to me anyway.
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>> I tend to refer to pence when I mean the coinage itself so 2p is
>> a 2 pence piece. p is for the amount of money so something would cost
>> 99 pee not 99 pence. Well to me anyway.
>>
My point is that nobody ever said 99 dee in pre-decimal money days, they said 99 pence. So why now say 99 pee?
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Because language evolves over generations, l'Es. In 1968 - or even 1988 - a forum was a ruined Roman marketplace, a post was part of a fence and a mobile was a tangle of wire coathangers on a child's bedroom ceiling. New things arrive and we find words for them. The old tanner-bob argot died out and 'pee' took its place. Things move on; if you don't like it, don't use it, but don't be surprised when others do.
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According to Wikipedia ............
"The pound sterling (symbol: £; ISO code: GBP), commonly called the pound, is the official currency of the United Kingdom, its Crown dependencies (the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands) and the British Overseas Territories of South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands,[2] British Antarctic Territory[3] and Tristan da Cunha.[4] It is subdivided into 100 pence (singular: penny)."
100 pence, not 100 pee.
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So, in Helixworld:
1. All slang and colloquial usage are wrong and to be stamped out; and
2. Wikipedia is an authoritative and infallible reference.
Come on, l'Es, this is getting silly.
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ouo why now say 99 pee?
Because usages change. What's the big hang up about a minor and inconsequential usage of the language. Change is what keeps English alive and interesting. The French have tried to regulate their language - it doesn't work.
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>>My point is that nobody ever said 99 dee in pre-decimal money days, they said 99 pence.
Pre decimal we never had to say 99 dee, because if we had a penny more than eleven we had a bob.
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And pence were not normally mentioned in amounts over a shilling. For example you did not say one and six pence, you said one and six
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sat 11 Sep 10 at 10:08
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>> My point is that nobody ever said 99 dee in pre-decimal money days, they said
>> 99 pence.
They didn't need to say dee, there was no ambiguity or possible misunderstanding. And there was no 99 pence, it was eight and thruppence or eight and three, but I take your point as to fourpence, tenpence, etc.
>>So why now say 99 pee?
>>
I gave you the answer to that last evening - to distinguish new pence from old pence. If you recall, "new pence" was common for a while - being an unwieldy phrase for frequent use, it was shortened to 'pee' - i.e. specifically new pence, not old pence.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sat 11 Sep 10 at 10:26
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>> My point is that nobody ever said 99 dee in pre-decimal money days, they said 99 pence.
More likely eight and thrippence, but yes - pence.
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Common usage was eight and three
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...Common usage was eight and three...
I never had that much pocket money, so I wouldn't know.
Two and six was nearer my mark.
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I got a shilling, in three frupney bits.
A frupney bit would buy you a jamboree (lucky) bag.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 11 Sep 10 at 15:22
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three frunpney bits would have been ninepunce a bob was twelvepunce ! I used to like the lucky bags as well - woman in the sweet shop gave me my first 50p piece as a pressie - I was rich-man !
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Pre the decimal con-trick your pound in your pocket bought more than the day after the trick was executed. A 10d grapefruit became a 10p grapefruit (On a market stall in Victoria)
Same here in Spain with Euro con-trick - a cup of coffee cost 90 pesetas: next day it cost 90 euro centimos - the equivalent of 149 pesetas. Repeated across the board.
Bring back PROPER £sd money , lbs not kg , feet & yards, not meters etc.- we are British NOT Europeans!
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 15 Sep 10 at 01:00
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If I remember from 1971 (when I was 7 years old) it was the government who told us to use the word 'pee' instead of 'pence' or 'pennies'.
So 99p is pronounced '99 pee' not '99 pence' or '99 pennies'.
And it only works for amounts under £1. So £1.99 is 'One pound 99' not ' One pound 99 pee'.
Of course the Americans would say $1.99 as 'a dollar 99' although I have heard $2.50 as 'two dollars and fifty cents'.
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I'm with Landsker on this one, sorry Martin:)
You've got modern builder syndrome.......you talk in a language the customer doesn't understand!
I know yards, feet and inches, I know miles and even furlongs, fathoms, pints quarts, bushels and pecks even. I know Fahrenheit, I also know when someone has a high temperature until it changes to Centigrade.
Now it's all gone to pot.
I want a new radiator fitted and it's in milli something, why not centimeters?
The temperature has got so hot but the number has gone so low.
I was taught something like divide by 9, times 5 and double it at school, but it never works out right so I just put the heater on in the greenhouse anyway.
Tesco try to get me to by two bottles of milk on offer for £1.50 which is cheaper than my usual 2 bottles at 85p each, then I discover there's only a pint in the ones on offer but 1.172 in the normal ones so after getting the calculator out I find I'm being conned.
Coffee comes in grmmmms, whatever they are, what's wrong with the ounce?
And don't get me started on the Euro, if it's going to be 'more or less' a pound then why not just call it a pound and be done with it?
I don't want to be dragged into the 21st Century, I'm happy in my world where I know how far it is, how much it costs and how big it is.
Must have got out of bed the wrong side this morning:)
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Tue 14 Sep 10 at 05:07
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"'two dollars and fifty cents'"
Wouldn't that be Two Dollars Fiddy?
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>> If I remember from 1971 (when I was 7 years old) it was the government
>> who told us to use the word 'pee' instead of 'pence' or 'pennies'.
Not according to section 2 of this .......... wapedia.mobi/en/Decimal_Day
"The government hoped that in speech the new units would be called "new pence",[citation needed] but many decided that it was clearer and quicker to pronounce the new coins as "pee"."
As I said in my original post, the government and the treasury were appalled when they found that most of the population referred to new pence as pee.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Tue 14 Sep 10 at 07:15
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Pee is the word used in mildly coarse conversation in place of urine or urinate, and as such is hardly the most respectful word to apply to our national coinage.
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coinage is not something to get nationalistic about .
Notes however, is someting different.
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I think you chose to use the spelling "pee" l'esc: Use "pea" and it won't trouble you so much as it clearly has over the past 40 years.
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I think at his age he is troubled by pee.
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Just a thought.......I remember the big white £5 notes, when did they stop being legal tender?
Pat
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That explains it then.
My rich Uncle gave it to me for my Birthday and it had to be used to by my shool uniform for Orton Longueville Grammar school with a silly striped blazer.
Pat
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>> to by my shool uniform for Orton Longueville Grammar school
>>
How's it doing in the league tables these days? Spelling improved yet?
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Pence or pee? - Stuartli
