Another nail in the coffin for Labour.
I never thought about private schools until the local state colleges refused to take my daughter for 3 sciences despite getting A* grades at 14, (2 years early) with her GCSEs. Her secondary school was a known failing school and she wasn't from the college's favorite feeder schools.
A local private school saw her grades, gave her a test to sit, interviewed her and gave her the biggest ever scholarship bursary that they had ever given, then on top of that an extra bursary.
And that's the problem with monopolies, you can't go anywhere else if you have a problem with them.
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Labour appears to be on a suicide mission.
Lots of people, including me, don't give a toss about private schools and despise the system they prop up, but they will be wary of electing a government that think it is OK to seize private property and investments.
Withdraw the charitable status by all means.
Equally dumb is the vote to force universities to admit the same proportions of students from state and private schools.
The lawyers will have a beano with this should it ever transpire.
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>>Withdraw the charitable status by all means.
Then that will reduce bursaries etc.
I think that private schools have a place in society. It gives consumer choice. There are no grammar schools in my area but the next county along has them and those that don't pay for private schools pay for tutors to get their kids through the 11 plus.
I also think there is an issue with some public schools like Eaton and Harrow which undoubtedly have an "old boys" network.
Private schools also bring a lot of money in to the country, about 60% of kids at the local private schools are foreign (and one local charity brings clever kids in from very deprived countries and pays for them to go to local private schools).
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I worked hard to earn money enabling me to pay a fortune in tax in support of the UK. Despite contributing substantially I do not use the education system or the health system.
Instead I pay again to have the health care and educational service I prefer.
If I am not allowed to use the private system then I will become a burden on the state system. Though I will receive less, I will also pay considerably less.
Surely the losers will be the state system who have always had my money but would like to insist that I use it also.
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Of course, when in the UK you would still benefit from the A&E departments of local hospitals and many private hospitals are now co-located with NHS hospitals to share expensive equipment such as MRI scanners.
State schools also educate people who provide services to those that take the private routes as well, so there is a benefit after all.
On a more practical note with 615,000 private school children, where is the money going to come from to build new schools as there certainly isn't room in those here and I doubt that the local authorities will want to take over the expense of running some of the buildings that the private schools are currently in.
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>> Of course, when in the UK you would .........................
Missing the point really.
I do not use them much, if you prefer. But if they take away the private option I will use them for lots more, costing lot more, but i won't be giving them extra money.
In any case, the UK still claims to be a free country. I pay everything I am required to pay to the UK and choose to pay additional for myself. And Corbyn says I shouldn't? Corbyn needs to FRO.
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> If I am not allowed to use the private system then I will become a
>> burden on the state system. Though I will receive less, I will also pay considerably
>> less.
>>
>> Surely the losers will be the state system who have always had my money but
>> would like to insist that I use it also.
>>
I think the idea is that they will get rid of the charity status that will mean they don't receive as much government funding. Then they will take the private school assets and use them in the public sector schooling and then the grants left to support schools in the public sector.
That's the idea how all the maths and legal questions are answered I've no idea. But that's labour's plan.
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>> Lots of people, including me, don't give a toss about private schools and despise the
>> system they prop up, but they will be wary of electing a government that think
>> it is OK to seize private property and investments.
More or less my view and I'm supportive of Labour's objectives.
The privilege that seem to accrue to those who've attended Eton and a few other top public schools needs to be dealt with but it's a big problem and not one which will be solved in the manner proposed.
I'm far more concerned right now by Academies where the only vestige of accountability is to Commissioners appointed by the Minister for Education. That I suspect is source of problems Zippy's daughter had securing A-level places.
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State education has been dysfunctional since the privatization of exam boards and publication of league tables, the perfect recipe for composting the entire system. Not to say that it was ever brilliant other than in parts.
20 years ago a sixth form college local to me was restricting students' entry and/or their exam entries purely to boost its scores. It's analogous to police forces not recording unsolvable crimes to get their detection rates up.
The plan will cost a fortune one way or another and won't work. It should be way down any list of priorities.
To the extent that private schools provide a better all round education than state ones, the resources should be going into making the state schools do more of what the better private ones can do. Fix the state schools first and maybe the problem will be ameliorated.
Last edited by: Manatee on Mon 23 Sep 19 at 08:29
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There is one simple remedy, Burn Eton to the ground. They are responsible for footing the likes of Cameron, Johnson, Rees Mogg upon us, the breeding ground of Burgess, Lord Lucan, and the entire editorial team of the Daily Telegraph.
No other country would tolerate such a nursery of greedy, corrupt, treacherous, incompetent buffoons.
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>> There is one simple remedy, Burn Eton to the ground.
Applying the 80:20 rule, I like it. Save most of the cost and disruption, get most of the benefit.
That's the trouble with ideology. Always a sledge hammer that destroys half the house to crack a nut.
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>>No other country would tolerate such a nursery of greedy, corrupt, treacherous, incompetent buffoons.
There are 27 more that do.
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>> There is one simple remedy, Burn Eton to the ground. They are responsible for footing
>> the likes of Cameron, Johnson, Rees Mogg upon us, the breeding ground of Burgess, Lord
>> Lucan, and the entire editorial team of the Daily Telegraph.
>>
>> No other country would tolerate such a nursery of greedy, corrupt, treacherous, incompetent buffoons.
How about France? Don't all the policitians go to the same Parisian based universities of Science Po and such like.
And how about all the Labour politicians who sent their children to private school? Yes, Eton has a very high proportion of alumni in positions of power, but this is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
I went to the Manchester Grammar School; in the top 20 now I think. However all my three children went or go to the local state school. It has a very good academic reputation, forced upon it by a strong governors and willing parents. It is better than many of the private schools within driving distance and my children walk there. I have saved a fortune.
One of my friends has sent two of his three children to private schools (a boy to MGS). Quite simply, the kids are very very bright, very inquisitive and perhaps a little odd. They have thrived in an environment that simply cannot exist in the state sector.
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If it went ahead, it could come as quite a shock for some of the children of Labour politicians.
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Bring back the Assisted Places Scheme.
Value for money but politically troublesome for Maggie.
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I watched the Liberal Conference on & off for couple of hours in total.
Promising XYZ if they are elected - you can promise everything when you have no chance of being in power.
I put the Labour Party Conference on today for some 20 minutes - It was John McDonnell promising a 32 hour week in 2029, banning zero hours contracts, spending £500Bn, free care for over 65s..........
Again promising things that cannot be delivered - it is a 2 week wait for a GP appointment today.
(The SNP were going to magic up 800 GPs but attained zero extra as they do not exist) so Labour's promise to be fulfilled he would need 20% increase in GP numbers to stand still - a GP's training is roughly 8 years and medical schools are already full. Where are the extra nurses to come from? A reduced working week but that does not affect the number needing hospitalisation.
Working 8 hours less and presumably producing less where does the money come from to pay employees? He stated 32 hours and no reduction in wages................ there must be a magic money tree in the garden of Corbyn's allotment.
Next week we will undoubtedly get the Tory promises.......................
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>>Where are the extra nurses to come from?
Well presumably not the EU Countries.
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>>The SNP were going to magic up 800 GPs but attained zero extra as they do not exist
Scotland is actually training more than ever*.
Problem is being aggravated by early retirements and reduced working weeks not least as a result of the ill thought out pension taper, annual allowance, and lifetime allowance.
It's also not helped by the pervasive attitude in Universities (and amongst many up-their-own-bums medical students) that 'proper' doctors become consultants, despite all GPs needing to pass membership exams now.
And even moreso by the utter failure to act on the swing from a largely male to a predominantly female workforce. 11 out of 13 local GP trainees are women. 9 out of 11 have had one or more children while doing their training and very few will be looking for full-time posts.
This is the same picture across the UK.
* www.gponline.com/scotland-track-increase-fill-rate-gp-training-posts-2019/article/1590236
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>>It's also not helped by the pervasive attitude in Universities (and amongst many up-their-own->>bums medical students) that 'proper' doctors become consultants, despite all GPs needing to >>pass membership exams now.
That will be Miss Zippy then. She really does not want to be a GP and is studying to be a surgeon.
You can see her as a medical student on TVs - "GP's behind closed doors". She looks totally miserable when a middle aged patient drops his cacks for a prostrate exam.
Last edited by: zippy on Mon 23 Sep 19 at 16:55
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Surgeons have their fingers up bums a lot more often than I do!
Couldn't imagine a more dreadful career than a surgeon personally.
Conveyor belt of the same crap every day for decades.
Edit: actually I think being an anaesthetist would be worse
Last edited by: Lygonos on Mon 23 Sep 19 at 17:01
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>>Scotland is actually training more than ever*.
More Scottish Students & less English & EU in medical school
I agree, but the current net effect is zero to all intents & purposes.
I have 2 nieces in practice - both in their 40s and have been part-time for almost all the time since graduation.
A former school friend had a GP daughter - she went part-time for many a year - then took a 12 month conversion course to be a minister.
How does she get by financially on a minimal stipend? - her GP husband is on £100K+ - she works odd hours (mostly evenings & weekends) that do not clash with the husband's hours.
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If Labour were to charge VAT on school fees and/or withdraw charitable status, a fair proportion of private school parents could no longer afford it and would send their kids to state schools. That are in many places over-subscribed! Luckily this won't be an issue as Labour won't get elected any time soon, especially with their "we'll decide our stance on Brexit after the election" 'decision' at conference.
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>> If Labour were to charge VAT on school fees and/or withdraw charitable status, a fair
>> proportion of private school parents could no longer afford it and would send their kids
>> to state schools.
That's the same tired old argument that used to be run out when 'pay beds' in NHS hospitals were being used to jump the waiting list.
Then that dodge was abolished the pay bed wards were integrated into the core service.
Same with private education - some schools will become academies and join the state sector.
I share your concern about their stance on Brexit.
It's actually quite logical to say:
(1) We recognise the 52/48 majority in 2016. It cannot be ignored
(2) We can get a better leave deal than May's - one that works on Irish border and saves Airbus, Nissan etc in UK
(3) We'll do that and offer it in a confirmatory referendum with 'remain and reform' as alternative.
A variation on Wilson's proposition in 1974.
But try and explain that in social media soundbites.
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Labour Vote to Ban Private Schools - Manatee
