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Before discussions start in this thread, I would like to point out that any petty arguments, personal attacks, or any other infringement of house rules, etc. will be deleted where we feel fit from now on.
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It seems that discussion about Brexit brings out the worst in some people.
Be nice, Play nice, and control your temper. Your co-operation would be appreciated.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 26 Jun 19 at 12:33
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Here we goo, this is what life outside the EU looks like
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48377235
A battered pawn between China and the US.
Faba doodie.
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misread that as "battered prawn" :-)
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Deliberate Pun with the Chinese connection.
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Hmm, battered prawns, chilli sauce, bit of rice, may have to go and source the ingredients for that tonight after I've swung by the polling station...
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Thu 23 May 19 at 17:24
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>> I've swung by the polling station...
Mines called the happy panda.
No 52, No 38, free prawn crackers.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 23 May 19 at 18:42
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Dropped by and voted on way to work at 7:15. Earliest I've ever voted with possible exception of 1997. Tactical vote for Greens though I've little to disagree with in their prospectus.
By no means first to vote; ballot box already had a good layer of papers in it. Others were turning up in cars or on foot as I left.
Will be interesting to see what turn out actually is nationally, I guess observing goings on in a (for most part) relatively well heeled dormitory village isn't much of a guide.
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Not quite sure I'll bother. I don't see much point in sending representatives to a body we about to leave. Naive perhaps, but just my opinion.
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I voted green as a tactical protest. (its on my dog walking route) The ballot paper was about three feet long, all those trees destroyed.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 23 May 19 at 20:17
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Voted Liberal this morning as they have a clear unambiguous "remain" policy. Think we should all vote and show where we stand.
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None of the 4 of us in our rented Spanish villa voted.
Too busy enjoying a great 4 course lunch for €11 each, including a large beer, to even think about it. On the beach swimming until 7:30
What’s the point in voting when we’re leaving the EU ? The 4 of us are all totally enfadado with U.K. politics and no longer give a stuff.
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I give a stuff, not about brexit, we are now screwed in or out, but I give a stuff about how we ended up with Farages, Boris's, Mays, Moggs, Corbyns and every other banker in parliament.
How the ruck do we get rid of them
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I voted as I am still not 100% sure that we will leave.
Ironically, with Farages lot probably dominant, if we end up staying then our representatives will be the ones who want to leave.
David Cameron has a lot to answer for - should be hounded for his incompetency.
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>> I voted as I am still not 100% sure that we will leave.
>>
>> Ironically, with Farages lot probably dominant.....
I voted for the same reasons, plus the thought that if my vote had a chance of stopping any of his bunch getting the reward of even a short term salary payment from the EU then it would be a good thing!
Even my youngest, who is back from Uni on revision leave (and in need of a few days of home cooking) traipsed up to the polling station at 9:30 last night.
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@ LL If you were really that enfadado the answer isn't to allow the lure of a cheap lunch and cheap beer to trump your responsibilities as a citizen.
You are playing into the hands of the younger generations who accuse the oldies of having it all and pulling up the ladder.
But I suppose you don't give a stuff about that either.
It's just as well some people do.
Last edited by: smokie on Thu 23 May 19 at 22:50
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Correct. I don’t.
I won’t bore you with personal stories of the ‘younger generation’ who expect, as a given, expensive foreign holidays 3x a year ( skiing and NZ not the Costas) nice cars, expensive meals out, daily take away coffees, expensive gyms, haircuts, pedicures, weekly cinema, flash gin & cocktail bars..spending 100% of their income then wondering why they can’t afford a house deposit.
Then when mummy and daddy ( my peers) provide a deposit it’s all new non cheapo flat pack furniture ( which daddy has to erect because they are useless at diy) and complain about the hourly rate of decorators because they don’t want to have to redecorate their new abode themselves when they can be out having fun in the big city.
So no I don’t give a stuff about the younger generation. At least the ones I know. Of which there are many.
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PM announces that she will resign on the 7th of June.
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Doesn't really resolve anything though. New leader will face the same problems.
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As would a different party IMO.
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Maybe we should have a virtual sweepstake on her successor. I'll take Dominic Raab though I'd say Andrea Ledsome has a small shout.
IMO if Boris gets it it will be because those who vote for the leader consider it still to be a poison chalice, and they'll see him as a scapegoat who will end up not being PM for very long. I felt that's partly why May got in on the first place. They sensible ones will wait in the wings (possibly announcing candidature to stake their claim for next time around. but not working too hard that they win) until BREXIT is a done deal.
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> IMO if Boris gets it it will be because those who vote for the leader
>> consider it still to be a poison chalice, and they'll see him as a scapegoat
>> who will end up not being PM for very long.
If he gets it'll be because he's popular with the party members. Robert peston thought he was the favourite, the only thing stopping him would be if he gets binned before the final two.
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>
>> If he gets it'll be because he's popular with the party members. Robert peston thought
>> he was the favourite, the only thing stopping him would be if he gets binned
>> before the final two.
Boris is marmite. Half the party hate his guts, half love him. None of them respect or trust him.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 24 May 19 at 21:08
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>>If he gets it'll be because he's popular with the party members
Not, if he gets it, it'll because he is the most popular of those who stand with the party members.
The difference being important because those who see themselves as being potential long term leaders will not risk their future at this time with such a poison chalice, whereas the one-shot monkeys will try for anything they can get, even if it doesn't last.
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> Not, if he gets it, it'll because he is the most popular of those who
>> stand with the party members.
>>
>> The difference being important because those who see themselves as being potential long term leaders
>> will not risk their future at this time with such a poison chalice, whereas the
>> one-shot monkeys will try for anything they can get, even if it doesn't last.
I'm not sure there's anyone popular waiting in the wings, as there's a rumoured 15 people ready to chuck their hat in the ring.
My point was more, from what I've seen, Boris isn't a compromise candidate that party members might vote for, he's out and out popular. Peston thought that anyone standing in the final round would struggle to beat him.
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>> My point was more, from what I've seen, Boris isn't a compromise candidate that party
>> members might vote for, he's out and out popular. Peston thought that anyone standing in
>> the final round would struggle to beat him.
If the MPs who oppose him can't stop his name going to the membership then he's probably, new scandals or gaffes excluded, the winner. As one of the Guardian's correspondents put it a significant number the ladies of the Tory party fantasise about a knee trembler with Boris........
There is though a cohort of MP's for whom he is their only hope of winning an election. They are relying on his cabinet and officials to 'kettle' him once in no 10.
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> If the MPs who oppose him can't stop his name going to the membership then
>> he's probably, new scandals or gaffes excluded, the winner. As one of the Guardian's correspondents
>> put it a significant number the ladies of the Tory party fantasise about a knee
>> trembler with Boris........
I'll take their word for it, I'm not sure how they came to know of such fantasies...
>> There is though a cohort of MP's for whom he is their only hope of
>> winning an election. They are relying on his cabinet and officials to 'kettle' him once
>> in no 10.
Possibly so but I'm sure people thought that about trump. At least boris has a fair amount of experience in government.
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I believe it is rare for the favourite to win. Boris might have more support than any other candidate, but many of the other are out and out against him. It's happened before that the favourite has lost in the final round to a relative outsider. Isn't that how Labour got Corbyn?
When Boris first came to prominence I admit I thought his buffoonery was part of the act of a clever man. Now I am convinced he is a bad lot.
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I think he is somebody you would describe as..
"All mouth and no trousers'!
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Goodness me, I know it was probably obvious but I hadn't realised earlier that Dominic and Andrea hadn't already officially shown their hand. Then they both come out almost together (well, in the same news story anyway). I should have gone for the forecast :-)
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Which is why it will ultimately have to go back to the people for a second vote. There is no Parliamentary majority for anything. May was dealt an impossible hand, I cannot think of any senior politician who could have done any better - but plenty who might have done worse. The new PM will need to try and negotiate a Chequers MK2 and then put this to the people as a binary choice: Deal or stay in.
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I don’t think the EU will renegotiate so having rejected the only deal in town we are left with no deal Brexit or remain in the EU following a referendum. Both of these options will mean that the arguments and recriminations wil go on for years.
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Please please please be Esther McVey. If I have to stare at the same face every single news bulletin for the next few years, at least make it a doable one.
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>>at least make it a doable one.
If being an avatar of pure evil and having zero empathy is your thing, bang on.
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My first wife was a scouser too, who robbed me of everything so I must have a thing about it.
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I notice before the election annoucement, on TV news Dominic Raab was pronounced RAB
Now its suddenly become RaaaaaaB
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>> Please please please be Esther McVey. If I have to stare at the same face
>> every single news bulletin for the next few years, at least make it a doable
>> one.
She's 'doing' the Member for Shipley, Philip Davies, probably the only MP in the House to make her look like an empathetic human being.
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OK didn't know what she looked like so did a search... Google images has a surprising set of 'risky' images for a current politician, seems to be a fan of the low-cut top and see-through dress... bet she didn't use that to her advantage!
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Was anyone surprised by the outcome? I don't think I was. I do think there was a bit of pro Remain (and anti mainstream) tactical vote going on but it got split between the Greens and the Lib Dems (and likely SNP, still to declare)
The Beeb has a chart which says Anti BREXIT parties got 40.4% of the vote while Pro BREXIT got 34.9%, the remainder being Con and Lab. For me that is a wide enough gap to justify another referendum (especially when you consider how our knowledge about BREXIT has changed since the first one) but tbh I think much of the impact of BREXIT is now either complete or is baked into plans which would be hard to reverse.
I do think the mainstream parties have got a mountain to climb but will struggle to get the confidence of the people back, unless they can become more decisive and effective.
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I did try and look at the results not just for the UK but Euro wide..
Not a good result for France and Italy with a win for the far right Nationalists.
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I was a little surprised at the number of areas were the brexit party came first. The map on the BBC, I think it was somewhere like 85% of the constituencies in England, they did better than I thought in Wales and picked a seat up in Scotland.
I read that at this election labour and con gained 25% combined, their previous worse performance was 45%. I think on that it's unlikely that too many of their MPs will be voting for an election any time soon.
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>>picked a seat up in Scotland.
No they got UKIP's one.
Overall it was a proxy 2nd referendum with Brexit taking the leavers from Con/Lab and the virtually all of the UKIP vote, and Lib Dem taking remainers from Con/Lab.
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UK turn-out was pretty rubbish compared to most other countries, I think around 37%?
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48428761
"Tory leadership candidate Jeremy Hunt has warned that his party will be committing "political suicide" if it tries to push through a no-deal Brexit."
And this in a nutshelll is why they are getting the bums kicked in elections.
We the electorate dont give a rats thing about the tory party (or the Labour Party) this is about the future of the country, the most important thing ever that happened to it. And what do they witter on about? The party!
They just dont get it.
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"The most important thing ever that's happened to it" ? A bit of an exaggeration surely. I doubt whether historically it will make much difference one way or the other.
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well its considerably more important than the Tory Party. As far as history goes, as they say, time will tell.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 28 May 19 at 13:32
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Well downturn comes to us all I suppose.
My employer has just announced a 28% reduction in head count in our division. Some new jobs will reduce the total number impacted but over half the staff in the division (some 2,000) will need to reapply for their jobs.
This is Brexit related. Firms are not taking on new debt because they are cautions about the future.
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Christmas is early for the Turkeys who voted for Brexit in Wales
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48533790
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>> Has Germany too, voted to leave the EU?
>>
>> www.theguardian.com/business/2019/may/20/ford-motor-company-cut-7000-jobs-500-uk
Haywain reading the Guardian? Have you had a liberal turn :-P
Final para states:
Ford did not blame Brexit for its cost-cutting plans but has said a no-deal scenario could make matters worse. It said leaving the EU without a deal would result in costs of $500m to $1bn during 2019 alone, adding to a series of stark warnings from major car firms over potential disruption to British manufacturing.
Did anyone else hear the former Perm Secretary at the Department of Trade speaking on radio 4 PM last night about implications of no deal? About 40-45 minutes in. Will be on listen again. Quite depressing but no doubt he's either part of the elite/establishment out to sabotage brexit or part of project fear.
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"Haywain reading the Guardian?"
To be honest, no, but it was the first link that I came across when I looked for more information regarding 5000 Ford job losses in Germany that I had heard mentioned. In case you hadn't heard, the car industry is in a bit of a mess at the moment for a number of reasons.
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>> "Haywain reading the Guardian?"
>>
>> To be honest, no,
Clearly he doesn't, as he would have seen that in that article. Shedding jobs is not the same as shutting down a plant, with the loss of external supply chain and logistic positions.
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Anything thinking that the prospect of a no deal exit from the EU won't affect manufacturing in this country are on another planet.
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It appears along with south Wales and the cutbacks in Germany a ford plant in france is closing.
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"It appears along with south Wales and the cutbacks in Germany a ford plant in france is closing"
Yep - that'll be due to Brexit as well.
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Ford decide a level of cost saving and manpower reduction is required. They have to decide where and how those savings and cuts are made.
Everywhere those could be implemented an analysis is made of that location and the implications. Essentially a balance sheet of the risks and advantages, challenges and opportunities. And then a decision is made that is supposed to be complete.
i.e. make the costs in the place where they have the most net benefit and avoid the most net risk.
If you *really* think that Brexit does not feature in that analysis then you are at best naive. So then it is simply a matter of whether Ford saw it as an advantage, disadvantage and/or a risk. Essentially a good thing for them or a bad thing.
Now what do you think they thought?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 6 Jun 19 at 18:54
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>> "It appears along with south Wales and the cutbacks in Germany a ford plant in
>> france is closing"
>>
>> Yep - that'll be due to Brexit as well.
Yup it is. Brexit is screwig up Europe as well as us. Business is all about confidence and future planning. Brexit has screwed that up. One thing is sure, you can be assured that those who voted out, will be claiming its not their fault and bleating for help.
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>> It appears along with south Wales and the cutbacks in Germany a ford plant in
>> france is closing.
>>
Missed the edit, looks like it is a gearbox factory with the loss of 850 jobs.
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I must have asked this question half a dozen time over the years but never had an answer. Can anyone tell me what the real and tangible benefits of Brexit are? The top five benefits will suffice.
Pleas do not tell me “Taking back control”
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Brexit will play a part but hasn't the boss of Ford said the decision is not to do with Brexit? Besides aren't tariffs only applied to finished products? I'm not sure whether an engine would count.
I think this is more to do with the motor industry positioning itself for electric. Also the ending of the JLR contract won't have helped. I wonder how many of the job losses have been compensated by the Ingenium plant in the Midlands.
Brexit benefits? The end of the Tory party most likely.
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>> hasn't the boss of Ford said the decision is not to do with Brexit?
Indeed he has.
But, I suspect that he needs to say that and is not able to say any different.
When making such changes, most especially ones resulting in headcount cuts, there are two important things.
One must be able to show that the action is justifiable by the needs and drivers of the business and it's requirements, nothing else. I think you would struggle to prove that a reaction to Brexit was a justifiable reason at this stage.
Also, one has to worry about public perception. And if one did pin it on Brexit that is likely to cause a significant amount of public feeling and media attention which could only end in tears.
So I'd treat that particular statement with scepticism.
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>>>So I'd treat that particular statement with scepticism.<<<
I share that view. What is also likely, is that any prospects of converting that facility to manufacture 'electric' motors, (which has been mentioned in the press coverage), has probably been thrown out in light of Brexit.
I still find it strange that some of the greatest Brexit support came from the areas that had benefited most from europen co-operation.
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>> >>>So I'd treat that particular statement with scepticism.<<<
>>
>> I share that view. What is also likely, is that any prospects of converting that
>> facility to manufacture 'electric' motors, (which has been mentioned in the press coverage), has probably
>> been thrown out in light of Brexit.
Same might also be true of Hondaplant at Swindon.
>> I still find it strange that some of the greatest Brexit support came from the
>> areas that had benefited most from europen co-operation.
Except in Scotland. In first referendum (1975) Western Isles voted leave. Subsequently the area benefited hugely in terms of roads, ferries and causeways from EU regional aid. Voted remain in 2016.
Was up there last week and noted EU badging on things like bridge to Scalpay. Does anyone seriously think Westminster would have funded that?
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 6 Jun 19 at 21:42
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The Automotive sector is going through immense change, one they did not instigate, plan or develop. Its fast, unplanned and its immensely costly and disruptive to one of the worlds largest industrial sectors.
Given that, adding another risk, the financial implication and uncertainty of Brexit, to the mix is unacceptable.
Almost certainly Mini, Nissan and Toyota will mitigate that risk by pulling out of the UK. That Peugeot will shut the GM Ellesmere port plant is a given.
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Have already 'increased the exposure of my portfolio'* to antidepressant manufacturers.
* do normal people even say crap like that?
/s
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This was a Judicial Review of District Judge's decision that a summons could be issued. Full reasons are to be published in a few days/weeks. Will be interesting reading; judging by Joshua Rozenberg's tweets they thought she'd misapplied the law and therefore come to a decision no reasonable tribunal could have reached. But published reasoning may be different.
Any appeal will probably leapfrog straight to Supreme Court.
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Now there's a surprise!
Said the very thing would happen to the wife.
People in high places and all that, can't see an ordinary folk having it thrown out.
For some reason I'm sure he has form on this over something similar that was thrown out (?)
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Had a quick look at the link.. am I understanding it right in that it seems BoJo (or any politician) can claim anything but don't have to back it up when quizzed? (obvious I know), surely that is exactly what misleading means?
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>> Had a quick look at the link.. am I understanding it right in that it
>> seems BoJo (or any politician) can claim anything but don't have to back it up
>> when quizzed? (obvious I know), surely that is exactly what misleading means?
In a word, yes.
The proposed charge was Misconduct in Public Office. If I understand what Rozenberg says correctly it's a common law offence (as opposed to one defined by statute). Historically it's been used against an office holder such as a Minister or Local Authority Member/Official where where wilful acts or omissions, in the official capacity, affect an outcome. Examples might be favouring relatives or deliberately perverting the out come of a public tender.
The Administrative Court seems to have decided claims made in a political campaign are not made in an official capacity and the District Judge acted unlawfully and/or unreasonably in issuing summonses.
Buyer (or rather voter) beware.
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I thought to myself that the past is the past and stuff done 20 years ago should not impact eligibility to be PM.
But someone just said that admission to using cocaine in the past would disqualify you from certain stuff including visiting the US. Which I suppose is fairly important for the PM to be able to do.
I think it's a shame when old stuff which have effectively legally "expired" catches someone out. Not a Jimmy Savill or Rolf kind of thing but other stuff.
Can't say I know a lot about Gove but I'd have had him as one of the more intelligent sounding ones.
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>> I thought to myself that the past is the past and stuff done 20 years
>> ago should not impact eligibility to be PM.
>>
>> But someone just said that admission to using cocaine in the past would disqualify you
>> from certain stuff including visiting the US. Which I suppose is fairly important for the
>> PM to be able to do.
It certainly could disqualify from visiting US. Would stop you using the ESTA/Visa Waiver scheme and require seeking of a formal visa. I suspect travelling to US as PM wouldn't be an issue for Gove though it might for Corbyn if he's also been on marching powder and continues to upset The Donald :-).
Some allege that Boris has 'done more stuff' than Marco Pantani and Lance Armstrong combined and intention is to flush him out.
Gove would look better if he hadn't legislated for a heavy expectation that teachers with convictions for possession would be barred from the profession.
Of those with a hope of getting on in contest I'd actually say he has the skills etc to do a proper job. While I'm critical of much he did in Education he did a good job as Lord Chancellor clearing up the mess left by Grayling. He has the intelligence, pragmatism and people skills to make a reasonable PM. Streets ahead of Leadsom or McVey. The latter was in Pienar's politics this morning showing she is in some permutation or other stupid, deluded and a liar.
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I am in two minds re the drugs thing. Being illegal, they give criminals great power and wealth when shipping them and selling them illegally. They are, however, dangerous and should be controlled in some manner.
Now, if I were to have a 20 year old conviction for drugs offences or even a note on my record that showed up on my DBS check (needed for my banking position) or my good character reference with the FSA then I would be escorted from my employers building and summarily dismissed. In fact, they wouldn't be allowed to employ me as I wouldn't be a person of good character.
Similar applies to my eldest who is a junior doctor.
So if we have to apply by certain rules to be fit to do certain jobs, then those that run the country b***** well ought to also and admitting use of these substances should bar them from office!
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>>They are, however, dangerous and should be controlled in some manner.
Treated as tobacco is treated, including taxing the hell out of it.
Has any similar industry ever been controlled by trying to prevent supply? That just pushes the trade underground and the prices up. Ask Chicago.
As far as Gove is concerned then who is really without sin? I intensely dislike these sanctimonious statements from his competitors and others, for that alone I'd like to see him stay.
But, sadly, the tabloids will never leave it alone. Not ever. 50 years from now he'll still be the politician "who once admitted that....".
That alone makes his position untenable I think.
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>>That alone makes his position untenable I think.
I would hope that it applies to this oaf too but unfortunately he seems to be covered in Teflon.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=SISt4znN2tQ
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I quite like Rory Stewart for the job, although perhaps he's a bit young and not had any top jobs in government. Perhaps one for the future, although having said that DC got the job with a similar level of experience.
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I suspect (cetainly within the eaton and oxbridge breed) there is isnt a single member of the Tory party under the age of 55 who hasnt indulged in illegal stimulants. I also suspect every single one of the will be two faced enough to condemn others (till they get found out)
20, 25 year old drug offence? morally spent conviction surely.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 9 Jun 19 at 20:12
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>>20, 25 year old drug offence? morally spent conviction surely.
Not when they are putting together laws that would see others going to goal.
Not when they would ban teachers from the class room via DBS checks for the same, even if they did end up being prosecuted.
It seems to be a case of "Do as I say, not as I do"!
I particularly think that Gove is hypocritical.
Last edited by: zippy on Sun 9 Jun 19 at 20:22
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>> I particularly think that Gove is hypocritical.
Especially when every politician with half a brain knows full well that the so called "War on drugs" is unwinnable and only trots that line out to play to the tabloid gallery.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 10 Jun 19 at 10:22
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We were discussing this down the pub tonight and my mate predicted that those who vote for the next leader would have exactly the Zippy view.
We also discussed, based on somewhat limited knowledge of the lot of them, that it was a shame as Gove is probably the best candidate out of a rather large and undistinguished field.
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>> I quite like Rory Stewart for the job.......
Having evaluated the respective characters, perused their policies, and perceived the desire of all of them to breathlessly outdo each other in the relentless pursuit of madness......
I quite like Theresa May for the job....... ;-)
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>>Streets ahead of Leadsom or McVey. The latter was in Pienar's politics this morning showing she is in some permutation or other stupid, deluded and a liar.
Nice looking though.
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Disturbing video evidence has emerged of them 'dabbling'
i.imgur.com/99CqOua.gif%20height=
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>> I thought to myself that the past is the past and stuff done 20 years
>> ago should not impact eligibility to be PM.
Guardian legal correspondent on subject of cocaine and US travel:
www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/09/michael-gove-deny-entry-us-cocaine-usage-lawyer
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Boris leads on first round. Leadsome and McVey both eliminated along with Mark Harper.
Hunt second followed by Gove then Raab. Rory Stuart scrapes into next round with 19.
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Looks like it's Boris then.
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I do hope you're wrong Sooty.
I find it slightly reassuring that quite a few more people didn't vote for him than did, but I suppose that's not like to remain the pattern.
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>> I do hope you're wrong Sooty.
>>
>> I find it slightly reassuring that quite a few more people didn't vote for him
>> than did, but I suppose that's not like to remain the pattern.
>>
I can't see who'd stop him. He's got enough votes to get to the final two, he's very popular with the party members. Bar some sort of extreme scandal*, it's going to be him.
* ie something way beyond the scandals he's been involved with already.
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Brexit uncertainty in the UK has boosted foreign investment into the EU’s other 27 countries in the three years since the referendum, according to a Financial Times analysis.
The total amount of capital invested in the EU27 surged 43 per cent in the three years to the first quarter of 2019, compared with the preceding three years, according to fDi Markets, an FT-owned database of cross-border investment. This is in sharp contrast to the UK, which has experienced a 30 per cent drop in investment.
About $340bn of capital has been invested in the 27 remaining EU states in that period, up from $237bn in the previous three years, fDi found. The biggest increase came from European companies spending beyond their national borders, including companies from the UK investing in another EU country.
Over the same period, the capital invested by foreign firms in greenfield projects in the UK dropped by $36bn to $85bn, despite a slight increase in 2018.
Christine McMillan from fDi Markets said it was “clear that neighbouring countries are beginning to reap the benefits of the uncertainty being caused by Brexit”.
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Brexit would not have been good for the economy, but still nothing like as damaging as this ridiculous dicking about. Absolutely nothing as harmful as uncertainty.
And no end in sight.
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Boris the Buffoons answer?
Boris Johnson has pledged to cut income tax bills for people earning more than £50,000 a year if he wins the race to succeed Theresa May as prime minister.
The former foreign secretary told the Telegraph he would use money currently set aside for a no-deal Brexit to raise the 40% tax rate threshold to £80,000.
Will cost about £9.6billion a year apparently doesnt leave much for the 300 million to the NHS
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I guess most Tory party members are higher rate tax payers so that will secure him their vote.
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>> I guess most Tory party members are higher rate tax payers so that will secure
>> him their vote.
Wont secure him a general election tho
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>>
>> Wont secure him a general election tho
>>
>>
Not the immediate problem though is it? Plenty of time to change tack once he secures the premiership
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>> Not the immediate problem though is it?
Yer, tis. May has been ousted because a:there is the potential for a snap chaos election b:May wouldn't win it and the tory MPs would have noses dragged from the feeding trough
If a: happens Boris wont either with elitist utterings like that.
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Boris is playing to his crowd.
Just like when he'd lie down in front of the bulldozers for the 3rd runway, and so forth.
Political memory is near non-existent when you change the people.
Boris in action: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojYNlQVuqCE
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>>
>> >> Not the immediate problem though is it?
>>
>> Yer, tis. May has been ousted because a:there is the potential for a snap chaos
>> election b:May wouldn't win it and the tory MPs would have noses dragged from the
>> feeding trough
>>
>> If a: happens Boris wont either with elitist utterings like that.
>>
You miss my point. He need to become leader first. The promise of Tax cuts will go down well with the membership and once he becomes PM the electorate becomes his focus and he can shelve the tax cuts in favour of whatever is necessary to win an election. NHS funding probably.
Politicians don’t have to do what they say they will do especially not Johnson.
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>> You miss my point. He need to become leader first. The promise of Tax cuts
>> will go down well with the membership and once he becomes PM the electorate becomes
>> his focus and he can shelve the tax cuts in favour of whatever is necessary
>> to win an election. NHS funding probably.
But the 1822 committee members have long memories and sharp knives. If Corbyn has any brains the tax cut for the rich will be his soap box headlines, and Bozo wont win an election. Those 1822 memories dont need to be that long it will seem.
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Bozo will win the next election easily. The masses love him. He can do no wrong in their eyes Corbyn is charmless and doesn't have a hope. No the only issue Johnson faces is becoming leader. after that he is home and dry. Probably won't manage a second term but he's good for five years.
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>> Bozo will win the next election easily. The masses love him. He can do no
>> wrong in their eyes Corbyn is charmless and doesn't have a hope. No the only
>> issue Johnson faces is becoming leader. after that he is home and dry.
Weird isn't it that somebody with Johnson's background can pull off the man-of-the-people thing so effectively.
Perhaps his chaotic personal life and questionable integrity seem to make him more human.
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>>
>>
>> Weird isn't it that somebody with Johnson's background can pull off the man-of-the-people thing so
>> effectively.
>>
>> Perhaps his chaotic personal life and questionable integrity seem to make him more human.
>>
There's a long way to go and a lot of potential banana skins before a final decision is made. Johnston was a firm favourite last time too.
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>> There's a long way to go and a lot of potential banana skins before a
>> final decision is made. Johnston was a firm favourite last time too.
Kelvin Mackenzie ex editor of Sun, tells a story about John Major involving the line "I said I've got a bucket of poo (he used a more colourful word) on my desk, prime minister, and I'm going to pour it all over you,"
I hope and suspect that somebody has bucket of poo for BoJo.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 11 Jun 19 at 12:33
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>> Johnston was a firm favourite last time too.
Is that some dodgy relative of BoJo's? ;)
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>> Meanwhile Victoria Darbyshire is latest broadcaster to mis-speak the Foreign Secretary's name....
>>
>>
>> www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2019/jun/10/victoria-derbyshire-accidentally-swears-when-saying-jeremy-hunt-video
>>
I wonder how many have misspelt her name as well...
;-)
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There's a long way to go and a lot of potential banana skins before a
>> final decision is made. Johnston was a firm favourite last time too.
>>
Think it would have to be a big slip up, from what I've seen he's got more votes than next two put together.
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>> The former foreign secretary told the Telegraph he would use money currently set aside for
>> a no-deal Brexit to raise the 40% tax rate threshold to £80,000.
An interesting use of the no-deal Brexit money from a man who is advocating a no deal Brexit, or at least the very real prospect of it....
Every time this man opens his mouth, he contradicts himself.
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>>
Every time this man opens his mouth, he contradicts himself.
Agreed. But exactly that habit seems to cause Farage little difficulty, so I see no reason to hope that Johnson will suffer any worse a fate.
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Farage has not succeeded in getting elected as an MP in seven attempts. I hope Johnson is as successful with his PM ambition.
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From www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48653990
"...fellow leadership contender Rory Stewart insisted "there is no new negotiation with Europe".
"...he proposed setting up a citizens' jury to break the Brexit impasse.
"Under his plan, a group of 50,000 people would be selected randomly from the electoral register.
"A polling company would then whittle the number down, making sure the final group was representative of the country. That group would be given three weeks to make recommendations which Parliament would then be able to approve or reject."
The whole idea seems somewhat daft to me, but it was the very last bit which made me laugh out loud. A get-out, just in case they get handed a pile of poo by the "electorate".
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Anyone watch it?
IMO they were pretty equal. Rory is a clear outsider but had some humility and some redeeming points. I really couldn't choose between Saj, Michael and Jeremy, with Dom just slightly behind.
FWIW I didn't like the interviewer much.
And Boris should be ashamed that his team was too scared to let him loose. (And be disqualified!)
Last edited by: smokie on Sun 16 Jun 19 at 20:02
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After Eddie Mair tore him a new one on the Andrew Marr show I don't expect Boris will show up at all.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAxA-9D4X3o
Last edited by: Lygonos on Sun 16 Jun 19 at 20:08
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Isn't that clip 6 years old?
EDIT: but now I'm 8 minutes into it it's worth watching
Last edited by: smokie on Sun 16 Jun 19 at 20:26
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And the next clip was Rees Mogg being interviewed by James O'Brien. After watching that I watched another O'Brien interview as I didn't believe he could be such a dick.
The theme felt familiar...
www.facebook.com/LBC/videos/when-a-caller-said-james-obrien-was-arrogant-for-thinking-brexiteers-are-wrong-t/10154858620391558/
EDIT thanks for taking that 30 mins of my life YouTube!! :-)
Last edited by: smokie on Sun 16 Jun 19 at 20:52
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I must have missed that proposal from Rory, I kept getting dragged away to answer questions from (home) management.
I liked Rory. Gove's "I am determined so I will solve it" thing is hard to pull off and he didn't quite, although I'd probably still pick him.
Saj wasn't bad. Hunt I believe is a too arrogant under the smooth and reasonable exterior, same with Raab.
Rory was right on one thing, although I'd phrase it more simply - if there is any common ground, it will be found in the centre - has to be found in the centre, despite the apparent polarisation of views amongst the electorate - the current right-wing "popularism" is frightening, and the doctrines of Corbyn and McDonnell will simply not garner enough support to prevail.
Any would be better than Bozo. But we seem to be doomed to him. I feel something close to despair.
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I think the hope and plan amongst saner elements of the Tory party is that Johnson will somehow be a sort of figurehead and popular "man of the people". He craves fame and adulation rather than having any specific political ambitions. He will be kept away from any meaningful decision making.
Anyway that's the plan.
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I forgotten it was on, I had to go to the allotment. Worth bothering with on catch up?
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Not really. There's another on Tuesday, this time with Boris.
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Why do we need a TV debate, we aint ruddy voting for them.
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Missed it - was checking my parents house who are enjoying the gastronomic delights of Lyon at the moment.
>>>Why do we need a TV debate...
So we can judge, based on their performance how deep we need to stock up on essential supplies.
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"'Channel4Remain' accused of sidelining hard Brexiteer Raab" says an item in today's Telegraph.
It shows that "Krishna" allocated speaking time as follows: Raab 10'2"; Sajid Javid 11'23"; Stewart 12'9"; Hunt 12'13"; Hunt 12'33" and Gove 14'30".
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I can't believe anyone is sad enough to sit down and work that out.
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>> I can't believe anyone is sad enough to sit down and work that out.
Each candidates team will be paying people to ensure their man gets a fair crack of the whip.
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Krishnan Guru-Murthy has tweeted:
"Actually @DominicRaab answered the questions in a crisper way than his rivals. Perhaps his legal mind. So given the same opportunities he took up a bit less time. That’s a potential strength - people hate waffle."
Elsewhere in the Telegraph there's an article alleging the EU team used the similarity between Raab and raap, the Dutch word for turnip, to give him an unkind nickname. HE didn't make himself popular......
Rory Stewart seems to have come out of it well though it's probably just a flash in the pan, like Nick Clegg's sudden surge after the 2010 election debate.
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>> Saj wasn't bad. Hunt I believe is a too arrogant under the smooth and reasonable
>> exterior, same with Raab.
Hunt says he 'agrees 150%' with Trump's criticism of Sadiq Khan:
www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/17/jeremy-hunt-defends-trump-quoting-katie-hopkins-in-attack-on-sadiq-khan
OK, let's ignore for a minute question of whether murders on the Mayor of London's patch are something it's within his power/gift to reduce. Let's also overlook whether that sort of point scoring over bodies that are barely cold is 'seemly' in the domestic context.
Trump was re-tweeting stuff from Katy Hopkins. The tweet contained the word 'Londonistan' which is used as an Islamophobic meme. Hopkins very likely intended it that way.
Hunt, HM's Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, should be telling Trump to butt out of our politics not agreeing with him.
No wonder people misuse his surname.
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>> OK, let's ignore for a minute question of whether murders on the Mayor of London's
>> patch are something it's within his power/gift to reduce.
I know I said ignore but here's some commentary on cause/effect and gangs in London.
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jun/17/trumps-attack-on-sadiq-khan-is-inappropriate-and-unfair
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"lack of proper educational opportunities" (from the Graun)
Don't they have schools in London?
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>> Don't they have schools in London?
Yes but are they and 'the system' fit for purpose?
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"Yes but are they and 'the system' fit for purpose?"
If in doubt, blame the system.
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Brexit Discussion - Volume 79 - Zero
