***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 62 *****
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IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ
Before discussions start in this thread, I would like to point out that any petty arguments, personal attacks, or any other infringement of house rules, etc. will be deleted where we feel fit from now on. It seems that discussion about Brexit brings out the worst in some people.
We will not give notice that we have deleted anything. Nor will we enter into discussion why something was deleted. That will also be deleted. The select few who are unable to have a reasonable discussion, cannot contain their anger, be keyboard warriors, trolls, etc. should not be allowed to spoil the enjoyment for others.
Also bear in mind that genuine posts 'may' well end up also getting deleted. I apologise in advance for this, but we simply do not have the time to pick through and be selective with anything we delete. If your reply is tagged onto an argument, etc. then due to the nature of the forum software, chances are it will also vanish.
Finally, if it becomes too time consuming to moderate these threads, then we might ask that Brexit discussion stop altogether.
Be nice, Play nice, and control your temper.
Your co-operation would be appreciated.
Dave.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 27 Oct 18 at 17:22
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Because there is very little chance of a sensible solution to he so- called Brexit saga.
Brexit meant out and there are so many variations that we all have lost the plot.
Leave without a deal.
Stay in the customs union.
A general election again or a referendum again.Stay in the E.U and make it work inside the union.
Nobody will be happy whatever is going to be decided by our political misleaders.
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If we didn't leave then the leavers would be unhappy but it would not have such a negative impact on the economy etc. But we've already been impacted of course because of uncertainty.
If we leave the remainers will be unhappy but everyone impacted because of the economy, jobs, extra bureaucracy and checks for import/export, tariffs....
If Cameron et al. had thought about this for maybe an hour or two they'd have never gone for a referendum because of the risk of a leave vote (which they didn't believe) and achieving leaving the EU was nigh on impossible apart from a hard exit including a border between RoI and NI.
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I certainly do not support the idea of a second referendum. A GE would perhaps help, but it isn't likely.
Other than that, I think you've pretty much covered it, Dutchie.
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Don't think that a GE would help. It would stall negotiations and Labour have no plan (or at least a coherent one) should they win. A Government of national unity should have been formed to resolve, what is in all probability is, the greatest crisis to the face the country in modern times.
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The only way a GE could help would be if one party came out as the Remain Party and the other as the Leave party.
However, neither have the strength, balls or confidence to do so.
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>> The only way a GE could help would be if one party came out as the Remain Party
And the labour party is not about to do that. Liberal Democrats quite probably would.
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I cannot understand why the Liberal Democrats have remained so quiet on all of this, you would think that having been heavily defeated at the last election that this was a good opportunity to get back on the stage.
Labour would be as hopeless as the Tories, Corbyn has a maintained a well-documented anti-EU stance for years. That's why we have this pussy-footing around all the time, he can't come out and say anything too supportive one way or the other as he risks splitting his party just as much as the Tories.
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>> A Government of national unity
>> should have been formed to resolve, what is in all probability is, the greatest crisis
>> to the face the country in modern times.
Who might lead such a government?
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My vote would be No FM2R with Pat as deputy.
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As I said to Bromp the other day, when someone has declared their intention to "leave us to it", let's respect that and not try to drag them back in.
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>>Who might lead such a government?
Whoever, maybe we shouldn't expect too much of them. (For "ruler" read "PM".)
“I am inclined to think that rulers have seldom been above average, either morally or intellectually, and often below it. And I think it reasonable to adopt, in politics, the principle of preparing for the worst, as well as we can, although we should, of course, at the same time try to obtain the best. It appears to me madness to base all our political efforts upon the faint hope that we shall be successful in obtaining excellent, or even competent, rulers.â€
Sir Karl Popper.
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What a very shrewd and accurate statement,
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So, from our Euro hating brexit champion who believes whole heartedly in this country we have
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45950377
What a spectacularly two faced sheet that man is, and a fantastic demonstration of the integrity, scruples and morals of those who lied their faces off for personal taxation gain.
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When someone on here claimed Dyson's new facility for electric cars in the UK was good news, I raised the real prospect that the actual manufacture of his cars would not be in the UK. Just like his cost savings on manufacture of vacuum cleaners.
The also complained about the EU limiting power for vacuum cleaners and then dropped mains powered ones altogether. No doubt because competition had caught up and he could charge a premium for hand held rechargeable ones.
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>>those who lied their faces off for personal taxation gain.
taxation?
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>>What a spectacularly two faced sheet that man is
He said what people wanted to hear, as he so often does. And because they wanted to hear it, they had no incentive to consider what was behind it.
Pretty much like Farage, Johnson, Rees-Mogg and 5,000 more politicians do on a regular basis.
Of more concern is why people would first let something like that sway them and then how little they let it bother them when the truth becomes obvious.
True of both sides of every fence, of course.
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I am hearing that things may be about to get a whole lot worse for Mr Dyson!!! :)
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www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-45944817
Not that I know much about the research world, but that doesn't sound good.....
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>> www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-45944817
>>
>> Not that I know much about the research world, but that doesn't sound good.....
>>
Now there is a surprise, funding is a problem. I suppose we all have to earn a crust!
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The U.K has always had immigration control.You arrive and have to show your passport when customs request it.
Immigration can stop criminals from abroad if they bother to check.We are not part of the European Schengen agreement which allows free movement.
If the government forces visa's on to people from Europe all you end up with that less will arrive.To live and work.
We are a European country that may-be a dirty word to some but it is a fact.
Flow of goods from Mainland Europe and the Customs Union has and still benefits the U.K and the rest of Europe.If we break this system up we are looking at ten years to have a level paling field with the rest of the world.I hope that I am wrong but Theresa May is hanging on for dear life to have a deal which doesn't cause to much damage to the U.K.
.
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>>I hope that I am wrong but Theresa May is hanging on for dear life to have a deal which doesn't cause to much damage to the U.K.
The opinion I heard was that the decision was not between this deal or a different deal, it was between this deal or no deal, and the hope was that the gobby idiots were not crazy enough to vote it down just to further their own soapbox.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 5 Sep 19 at 10:13
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"Over the years of Britain's membership of the EU, its scientists have secured more European grants than the country has paid in. Sir Paul reckons that without a deal, British science could lose about £1bn a year. "
Oops.
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''A government spokesman said: "The UK plays a vital role in making Europe a pioneering base for research, and values the contribution that international researchers make to the UK.
"This will not change when we leave the EU.
"We will seek an ambitious relationship on science and innovation with our EU partners, exploring future UK participation in mutually beneficial research programmes, and will continue to support science, research and innovation through our modern industrial strategy.
"We have a proud record of welcoming the world's brightest scientists and researchers to work and study here, and after we leave the EU we will have an immigration system to support this."
For balance.
Pat
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Pat,
That's typical government spokesman - straight from a script. They can seek all the ambitious relationships they want but how will that be as good as, never mind better than, what we have now?
We have a proud record of welcoming the world's brightest scientists and researchers to work and study here, and after we leave the EU we will have an immigration system to support this
Yeah right.....
www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/10/amsterdam-university-student-denied-entry-to-uk-for-conference/
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/09/who-voices-alarm-academics-denied-visas-to-visit-uk-conference
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/22/uk-science-reputation-at-risk-if-foreign-academics-visa-issues-not-resolved
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 23 Oct 18 at 18:04
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Your glass is half empty and mine is half full.
For every prophecy of doom quoted one can find the same quoted with an excellent outcome.
All that is certain yet is none of us know, so there is no point in pretending we do.
Pat
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>> Your glass is half empty and mine is half full.
>>
>> For every prophecy of doom quoted one can find the same quoted with an excellent
>> outcome.
Mrs Micawber strikes again - something will turn up.
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How can you be sure it won't?
Pat
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So we are going through all this turmoil with no idea as to what our goal iis but hoping something will turn up?
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>> How can you be sure it won't?
>>
>> Pat
Jeez,
Your lot voted to send this country off into the unknown and now it's up to me to show it won't turn out right in the end.
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>> For every prophecy of doom quoted one can find the same quoted with an excellent
>> outcome.
Those three links are not prophecies, they're accounts of what is happening NOW with foreign research students prevented from travelling to UK. Once free movement ends the Home Office will be free to subject EU scientists to the hostile environment too.
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I thought you were "leaving us to it"? Have you changed your mind?
I quote a man actually involved in the work and one of 29 Nobel Laureates and six winners of the prestigious Fields medal making this statement whereas you quote an anonymous "government spokesman".
Which would you see as more credible? And I mean "credible", not just delivering the message you prefer to believe.
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>> ''A government spokesman, Baldrick, said: "The UK plays a vital role in making Europe a pioneering base for >>research, and values the contribution that international researchers make to the UK.
>>
>> "This will not change when we leave the EU.
>>
>> "We will seek an ambitious relationship on science and innovation with our EU partners...........
For balance.
TnE
;-)
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I'm looking forward to my delicious chlorine washed chicken with only minimal maggot and rat damage.
US have us over a barrel when it comes to 'bilateral' future trade deals.
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>> I'm looking forward to my delicious chlorine washed chicken with only minimal maggot and rat
>> damage.
You forgot that delicious dish, steak hormones
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Don't forget their lovely candy :-(
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www.bbc.com/news/health-45958713
"Public may have to stockpile drugs in no-deal Brexit"
I've Googled "plenty of drugs available after Brexit", in the interests of balance, and all that. It was a pretty depressing picture.
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You can only assume those that voted leave are delighted so far.
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I happened to be reading some stuff in the Guardian and came across the following comments;
Rees-Mogg and his company have now opened the second of two Ireland domiciled funds,
Farage stated "I never said it would be beneficial to leave". Still at least his children will retain freedom of movement with their dual citizenship.
Nigel Lawson has applied for French residency
Sir Jim Ratcliffe has applied for foreign residency and moved money to Monaco
MP John Redwood has advised his clients to invest outside the UK because of the position of the UK economy going forward.
What a charming crowd Brexit mouthpieces are. Or did you think it was just Dyson? What an entirely lovely group of people. All will be completely unharmed by Brexit of course.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 23 Oct 18 at 23:37
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As I said, those who voted leave must be very happy how things are proceeding. They thought this through after all and understood how things would pan out.
In fact they knew how Theresa May would proceed with her version of Brexit before she was even PM. And knew there'd be a general election in 2017 that the Conservatives would win but need the DUP to form a coalition.
I hope they bought a winning lottery ticket if they were able to foresee the future.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 23 Oct 18 at 23:47
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>>All will be completely unharmed by Brexit of course
Unharmed?
I think we both know they will do very nicely out of Brexit.
The turkeys will take the biggest stuffing.
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>> The turkeys will take the biggest stuffing.
Yes a lot who voted to leave will be impacted greatly. Loss of jobs. Loss of homes. Even if you don't own your home and rent you have to hope the landlord does not sell. That sort of stuff. If you have a mortgage on a home and you keep your job then we'd then have to hope for low interest rates to continue.
Dyson deciding to invest outside of the UK shows what he thinks of the UK for investment and manufacture.
The way things are going there will be a new Conservative leader soon but if that happens I would expect a general election to follow.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 24 Oct 18 at 00:04
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The people who voted leave voted as they chose, which is their right, and thought they were doing the right thing. And those who voted remain did the same. You cannot fault people for that.
Those who voted leave were lied to and deceived and failed to look at the actual facts. Really, that also not their fault.
But you would think that they would stop listening to these two-faced lying self-centred idiots and their colleagues about the impact of deal or no deal, and about what deal can be done. You would think that common sense might make then think that perhaps these are not the best people to listen to.
FFS wake up, lemmings!!!
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 5 Sep 19 at 10:27
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NoFM2R you are forgetting there are some who truly believe they thought this through. But there is no way that is possible because of what has happened since the referendum including a change of Conservative leadership and a GE. They will keep their heads buried in the sand and say I voted to leave and now over to the Government to deliver even if that is impossible.
And before Pat says I'm singling her out I am not. There were over 17 million that blindly voted to leave without knowing what leave meant and what it would involve.
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>>you are forgetting there are some who truly believe they thought this through
I rarely forget things. Who knows, perhaps they did and perhaps they were right. If I was right 100% of the time I'd be a lot richer than I am. I don't think they are, but they could be.
My point is not that. My point is that to continue to believe those proven to be liars, hypocritical, immoral and self-centered seems ridiculous to me. And to do it blindly is nothing less than stupid.
Separately. repeatedly mentioning someone who has said that she is "leaving us to it" is very misguided. Why do you persist in doing that? Why not leave it alone? If you think that what you have written might seem to single someone out, then rewrite it.
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>> My point is that to continue to believe those proven to be liars, hypocritical, immoral and self-centered Boris seems ridiculous to me
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Should we crash out of the EU and trade on WTO terms the UK would be left as the only state in the world acting on this basis and incur punitive tariffs. Mauritania, which previously held this status, has recently signed 20 preferential trade agreements.
I guess something might turn up though. No need to worry.
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>>I guess something might turn up though. No need to worry.
The government is going to charter ferries and arrange for them to use ports other than Dover. Not sure how they'll find either ferries or suitable ports but as Chris Grayling is in charge it'll be fine.....
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Wish I didn't find that funny.
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Don't we also need to negotiate tariffs with all WTO countries before we can trade under WTO rules. We currently use the tariffs the EU has with/via the WTO but we need to have our own. I think you need to seek agreement with all 167 countries in the WTO to agree your tariffs.
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"The Remain side is a magnet for all kinds of fretful types with unspecified fears"
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/what-i-learned-at-the-peoples-vote-march/
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Didn't get past first para where concept that voters were lied to is stated to be questionable.
It's pretty much indisputable as is influence of big money, a lot of it foreign, and influence of Kremlin.
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I realised what I was reading when I read the phrasing "Two beliefs obsess the Remain cause".
When it stated that the existence of lies was questionable I stopped reading and wen to watch some grass grow. How in the world can they even write that dross and what is in the mind of people willing to believe it?
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I don't expect this link to stay here long because it does contain some bad language but it made me laugh!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3rRuGlqfKM
Pat
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I actually believed this at the time.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRowLjb0x48
Pat
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I'm not sure I understand what you mean. You think there's another referendum happening?
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>> I actually believed this at the time.
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRowLjb0x48
>>
>> Pat
and we will, but you can't just turn it off like a tap, you cant unravel 50 years of union in two without slashing your jugular
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>> I actually believed this at the time.
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRowLjb0x48
>>
>> Pat
>>
I thought that we had moved on from whether we are leaving or not but are now discussing the terms of leaving.
In real life though things are never that black or white. I really really set my heart on a house and told all my mates that I was going to buy it. Then the survey came through and I had to pull out because I couldn't afford the potential repair bills.
Life is like that and its foolish to continue down the same route even though new information tells you that its fraught with danger without reassessing that is actually what you want to do and that reassessment could be in the form of another referendum.
Farage himself said it would be unfinished business if the vote were 48/52! Live up to your promises Farage.
His declaration that he believed leave had lost on the eve of the referendum had benefitted a number of his hedge fund pals.
Last edited by: zippy on Thu 25 Oct 18 at 11:44
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I probably didn't make myself clear Zippy and I really don't want to fall out with you. It seems I only have to post on any thread these days and someone will take offence.
I meant I really believed David Cameron's words when he made the promise.
Pat
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I don't think zippy's taken offence at what you posted - just argued his point.
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I do hope not RP. It wasn't meant that way at all.
I have always believed that if I'm to be accused of something I haven't done and no-one believes in me, then I may just as well do it and take the rap for it:)
Pat
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> I meant I really believed David Cameron's words when he made the promise.
>>
>>
For clarity, which one?
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I have a policy of only believing politicians as a last resort, and then with deep suspicion.
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He only says the word 'promise' once.
The referendum I promise(d)? to deliver.
I believed he meant it and would see it through.
It was the only time in my life I had voted Tory and I believed that Cameron was a politician I could respect until his actions when he took the easy way out, and walked away.
Never again will they have my vote.
Pat
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>>Never again will they have my vote.
I'm with ^this Giza.
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In fairness to him he didn't expect a "leave" vote.
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I would have expected him to have covered all options before giving us the choice......surely that's a bit of a basic safeguard?
That's when he started to fall off his pedestal for me!
Pat
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If you refuse to vote for parties or politicians who have have said one thing and done another, then you'll be abstaining for the rest of your life.
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I doing blame him, its a poisoned chalice to any politician. A full Brexit is deliverable, a full Brexit with economic and social stability isn't and never was.
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>> It was the only time in my life I had voted Tory and I believed
>> that Cameron was a politician I could respect until his actions when he took the
>> easy way out, and walked away.
Thanksfor clarification. I don't see he had any other choice, I can see why he did it, I thought it was the right decision then and I still do.
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>> I probably didn't make myself clear Zippy and I really don't want to fall out
>> with you. It seems I only have to post on any thread these days and
>> someone will take offence.
>>
>> I meant I really believed David Cameron's words when he made the promise.
>>
>> Pat
>>
>>
No offence meant Pat just a 180 degree difference of opinion. You are entitled to yours. I think its wrong.
I think, Voltaire is misquoted as saying "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". Actually I'm not that brave.
So I may argue the toss and I know I tend to give life examples (that's how I think) and whilst they are not personally directed at you, they may be directed at your viewpoint, which I think is only fair.
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Thanks for clearing that up Zippy
Re: Voltaire, I probably am that brave but have to admit it doesn't always do me any favours.
You know, I would love to sit down over a glass of Rioja and have a really good discussion with you about Brexit. It would be so interesting and so sad the forum can't manage it.
Pat
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>> Thanks for clearing that up Zippy
You never know Pat. I work with some of your (ex?) employer's rivals. Just waiting for the call....
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 26 Oct 18 at 02:10
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Would that be who we know as KT's? Zippy:)
>> your (ex?) employer'<<
Just to clarify, I'm self-employed now, but I have my training room at their premises and they are my primary customer.
I retired for 6 weeks before they rang me with an offer I couldn't refuse:)
Pat
Last edited by: Pat on Thu 25 Oct 18 at 15:01
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Please don't say it's the one in Wimblington:) I started my driving career with them in 1982 and it didn't end well:)
Pat
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>> I actually believed this at the time.
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRowLjb0x48
>>
>> Pat
Cynically, why would you believe him?
He'd decided to offer a referendum. Whether he did so because he wanted to solve a problem in his own party or because he genuinely thought there was a public demand is moot.
Once he'd offered it he'd no option but to say it was final. Anything else and he looks a twerp.
In reality he was betting the house on remain and he lost and then scarpered; he'd no alternative.
When it comes to no second referendum he cannot bind his successors. His actions tied them up in a Gordian Knot. If further negotiation and another referendum is the means to cut the knot the so be it.
Like I said earlier, Brexit was mis-sold.
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The doctrine of parliamentary supremacy may be summarized in three points:
- Parliament can make laws concerning anything.
- No Parliament can bind a future parliament (that is, it cannot pass a law that cannot be changed or reversed by a future Parliament)
- A valid Act of Parliament cannot be questioned by the court. Parliament is the supreme lawmaker
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentary_sovereignty
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>> - A valid Act of Parliament cannot be questioned by the court. Parliament is the
>> supreme lawmaker
An act can be questioned by a court if it is challenged on Human Rights grounds ie it contravenes rights under the European Convention on Human Rights as imported into domestic law by the Human Rights Act.
The law limiting Civil Partnerships to same sex couples was subject to such a direction.
For all the heat and fury over the Convention and Act their effect is to give us something similar to constitutional rights. I cannot understand why anyone thinks such rights objectionable.
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Courts can interpret Acts as well, and regularly does so - it brings us nicely to Mr Hain. A man who has chosen to overrule the Judiciary and its findings by blabbing . Very dangerous.
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>>An act can be questioned by a court if it is challenged on Human Rights grounds ….
because currently the UK accepts EU legal supremacy on laws within its competence.
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Funny how the term "Human Rights" is seen as a bad thing by some.
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>> Funny how the term "Human Rights" is seen as a bad thing by some.
>>
Yes, funny how some think the right not to be killed by the state is a bad thing along with prison without trial and confiscation of assets without compensation.
Oh, and you won't be guaranteed a family life either.
Don't forget, people who don't like the act may want to force you in to labour camps without pay.
Funny how our Prime Minister has called for the Human Rights Act to be repealed. I always wonder about a politician's true motives when they don't want us to have some basic protections in law. Do they really want to become a dictator?
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>>Do they really want to become a dictator?
Longing for this is perhaps a reason why democracy has been under attack since it was first seen, about 2500 years ago. (The franchise then only included male citizens but we have extended it to cover women - and slaves, if they can register and make it to the polling booth.)
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Social media have exposed the extent of general ignorance. I'm not sure that the combination of democracy and universal suffrage was thought through properly.
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When it comes to no second referendum he cannot bind his successors. His actions tied
>> them up in a Gordian Knot. If further negotiation and another referendum is the means
>> to cut the knot the so be it.
I can't see how another vote would help right now. To my mind it would cause more confusion and delays.
Is there even enough time to have one before the end of march?
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Stop possible second referendum on E.U. membership
Sign this petition: petition.parliament.uk/petitions/226071
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That is not a smart move.
[Bear in mind that I do not support the idea of a second referendum].
However, the "Stop the Referendum" poll goes on about democratic results. What are you going to do if the "have a Referendum" poll gets more votes than the "Stop the Referendum" poll? What will that do for the argument about democratic results?
Somebody did not think this through. It's not Cameron again, is it?
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 5 Sep 19 at 10:26
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Something similar has already happened I think, Leavers presumably didn't get the result they wanted. :-)
See petition.parliament.uk/petitions?q=referendum
Hold a referendum on the final Brexit deal - 145,117 signatures, now closed
No referendum on the final deal for the UK to remain in the European Union. - 14,438 signatures, now closed
I suppose maybe those views don't necessarily align to leave or remain voters though.
I got involved in quite an argument locally when a load of busybodies on a local forum stated a petition to have the local council install some (what I considered unnecessary) road safety measures. The petition reached enough votes to be considered by the Council IIRC. What irked me was that there was not a "No I don't support this" option, which would be much clearer than just having an opposing petition. And anyway, IMO only those sufficiently motivated will bother to sign a petition and I don't believe they are very representative.
(I think I mentioned here before that in the local one, someone actually set up a user account in my name and explicitly put a comment on supporting the proposal. I wasn't very happy, but it makes you realise how open to abuse these things are)
Last edited by: smokie on Fri 26 Oct 18 at 13:56
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>>Cameron again, is it
Farage etc. I should imagine. Another referendum / peoples vote is mainly all about Remainers trying to overturn the result of the last one.
Would this country be any less divided than it is now if Remain won c52/48?
Best to get Brexit done & dusted IMO - which no doubt will entail the UK staying in the customs union until ... ?
I'm tired of Brexit TBH, like most relatively sane people I dare say - but not so tired that I wouldn't vote to leave again now if ... :)
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>> Another referendum / peoples vote is mainly all about Remainers
>> trying to overturn the result of the last one.
Well, I don't agree with their efforts. I mostly think the decision was one I didn't agree with made for reasons I don't support in a referendum which was an utter shambles infested by lying idiots..
However, one cannot pick and choose the results you like, nor can you shut Pandora's Box.
It's not as if a second result, even if different or the same will change anything. 60/40 in either direction is unlikely so the mess would remain.
I don't even think a General Election would fix it, but I don't believe either party would get off the fence.
I wish people would stop dicking around with irrelevancies and focus on achieving the best that they can for going forward.
A dose or realism would help, also.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 5 Sep 19 at 10:26
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Blimey! .. I've given you a thumbs up, must be due to the change in the weather (6°)
I've painted (sprayed) my wood burner but can't light it until I've 'cured' the paint, which I'll do over the weekend, and set all the smoke alarms orf!!
What d'you reckon: www.flickr.com/photos/43576259@N04/30629522837/in/datetaken-public/lightbox/
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Very nice. I thought you were supposed to light it to give it the final cure? Do with black anyway.
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It's the same as black stove paint, except that it isn't black :)
www.stovebright.co.uk/high-temperature-paint.html
I've got to light a small kindling fire at first, then light a hotter fire while it's still warm (which is basically what one does anyway really)
I'm half expecting the paint to bubble up / flake orf - glass half empty merchant see.
:o}
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www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0000v96#play
World At One - Radio 4 this afternoon. Well worth listening to an erudite and articulate interview with the mayor of Calais about the effect of a hard Brexit on his city. Also interesting is the potential for UK border to return to Dover. Around 30 mins into the programme - but you'll need to check as I was driving when it was on live.
Last edited by: R.P. on Fri 26 Oct 18 at 16:13
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The Mayor was specifically speaking about his perception on a no deal exit and the consequences for his city. Who do we believe ? Good question and there's no answer until it might happen.
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>>So who do we believe?
I'd go with neither, but hope the French bloke turns out to be right.
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Brexit Discussion - Volume 61 - Dutchie
