Friends went out for a meal in a rather up market/snooty part of London. When asked what they wanted to drink one of them asked for tap water and was told that they didn't "do" tapwater and he would have buy a bottle, at a cost of £5.
I have it in my mind that a condition of an establisment being awarded a licence to sell alcohol is that they must supply tap water, free, if it is requested. To save me annoying the local council and the licencing people, can anyone tell me what the position is. It would be nice to have the facts for any future occasion when the question might arise!
|
...a bottle of water for £5...
Oh dear, rip-off London is alive and well.
What a thoroughly inhospitable establishment - I wouldn't go back.
I'm not aware of any requirement to provide drinking water free of charge for customers in restaurants.
I think employers - in all places, not just restaurants - have some responsibility to provide drinking water for staff.
|
"In April 2010, the previous administration enacted a Mandatory Code of Practice (Mandatory Licensing Conditions) Order 2010 for Alcohol Retailers, which was intended to be introduced in two stages. The first stage, which took place in April 2010, imposed conditions on licensed premises to:
(a) Ban irresponsible promotions in the on-trade
(b) Ban dispensing alcohol directly into the mouths of customers
(c) Ensure that free tap water was available
in all licensed premises in the on-trade
See www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/consultations/cons-2010-licensing-act/alcohol-consultation?view=Binary
So that looks like a Yes, they do have to supply free tap water. Don't think it's always been thr case though.
|
|
Many thanks Smokie! That looks pretty definitive.
|
b) Ban dispensing alcohol directly into the mouths of customers
Hahahaha !
|
It did used to go on in some of the more chavvy places they would run drinking games and force booze into peoples mouths.
I've certainly noticed since the law has changed that drink promotions are toned down a lot now.
I hope the council do something about this place, I would contact the Evening Standard too some bad press may be good for for these sort of businesses.
|
On the 20th Page of the link that Smokie posted it says that, with effect from April 2010, all licenced premises must
"(a) Ban irresponsible promotions in the
on-trade
(b) Ban dispensing alcohol directly into the
mouths of customers
(c) Ensure that free tap water was available
in all licensed premises in the on-trade
Seems pretty clear to me. As my friends have already writen to the restaurant to complain about a very poor meal, the cost of water and the imposition on the bill of an "optional" 15% service charge they can send a copy of the this legal ruling to follow and see what happens.
Last edited by: Perky Penguin on Mon 30 Aug 10 at 22:00
|
|
The Evening Standard ran a tapwater campaign for a while as a name/shame adjunct to eatery revues; don't know if it's still active.
|
|
As long ago as 1992 it was a condition of our (hotel) licence that we supplied tap water free on request - although it might have been a local condition, I don't think it was.
|
I too thought it had "always" been a condition of a licence.
I must say, I eat out in town fairly frequently, and have never encountered this anti-tap snobbery.
|
Unfortunately the tap water isn't free for the hotelier - they have to pay the waiter's wages, the cost of supplying and washing the glass, any table linen, etc.
Even after all that they're loosing the profit they'd make on the beverage you would have had.
Last edited by: Chris S on Tue 31 Aug 10 at 12:18
|
It isn't free to the hotelier but it is the law, apparently. The small cost of providing the water and the means of getting it to the table is more than coverered by the profit on conning people into buying a bottle of water @£5 and with a steak and two vegetables @ £20+!
It takes me time and effort to fill in my tax return but I have to do it for nothing as the law requires me to provide the information. I have located the restaurant and read some reviews and it is quite odd. Two groups ate there on the same day, one gave it 2/10 and the other 8/10. Best stay away and don't risk expensive disappointment.
Last edited by: Perky Penguin on Tue 31 Aug 10 at 13:07
|
Chris, more valuable than the points you make is goodwill.
People will ask for a glass of tap water, but they have not come into the pub, restaurant or hotel just for that glass of water. They are spending money on other things - a glass of water is a small price to pay for an invaluable reputation - and often the glass of water is in addition to the wine the customer is drinking.
The waiter is paid regardless of how many glasses of water he dispenses, the glass washer machine will roll anyway and I would be surprised to find fresh linen put on the table for one glass. The cost of the glass I grant you is in the costing ... especially if the customer breaks it.
The customers in the OP will probably not be returning to that restaurant - and they will tell more people how bad (and illegal) the service was.
We always offered free accommodation to partners of business travellers - they got free bedlinen, towels and so on - we got another person in the bar and restaurant and a guaranteed re-visit in 80% of cases or at very least their recommendation to others. The best outcome of doing this was when we picked up a contract for conferences from one guest. He was booked into the hotel by a company he was visiting, we offered our standard invitation to his partner - four weeks later our books improved by nearly £100,000. That free night, like a free glass of water, was worth at least a years advertising in any magazine.
And it is a condition of your licence that if you offer alcoholic beverages you also have to provide tap water.
|
"Unfortunately the tap water isn't free for the hotelier - they have to pay the waiter's wages, the cost of supplying and washing the glass, any table linen, etc."
All true, but how silly to risk losing clientele over such trivialities. I do lots of things for free to ensure that I retain my client base, way and above giving out free water.
I wouldn't spend my hard-earned in an establishment that had such miserable, penny pinching policies.
|
|
They'd not let you in with those boots on anyway.
|
I am actually in the process of starting a travel blog inspired my £23 return trip to London including hotel stay. I might actually run a theme on places not giving free trap water.
I think its more of an issue in pubs if they refuse. Never been refused but a few times in the clubs I drink a bit too much and ask for tap water. They give you a full pint of tap water and its never any trouble.
|
|
Hmmm...travel blog - here's mine from last year. I had to re-eit some of the captions, some of which were really witty even though I say ti myself, as when it was printed into a book the captions length was limited. I just realised the web site seems a bit all over the place - still, might be of interest to someone. www.offexploring.com/smokie/blog/illinois/. It starts on 11 June and is probably best read in date order - for that is the order in which it was written.
Last edited by: smokie on Tue 31 Aug 10 at 15:56
|
"They'd not let you in with those boots on anyway."
I once stood drinking in the doorway of a bar with a friend, turning away all the young guys in trainers. "sorry mate, no trainers tonight". Oh we did giggle.
|
|
Quite right too. Trainers are for training. Anyone who wears them for any other purpose should be scolded and told to return when properly dressed.
|
Oi I wear trainers all the time :). They are black and quite subtle though. Never been turned away for wearing trainers but then I would never go to any where that had such a door policy.
As the sign of Jilly's Rockworld once said "Those in smart dress will be politely turned away".
|
Trust me on this one Rattle, get yourself a decent quality pair of boots or shoes. It'll change your life.....
:-)
|
|
Indeed Humph. It's no coincidence that I wear exquisite cowboy boots and have never needed the services of an online dating agency.
|
|
Fair enough Dave but limiting yourself to women who like line dancing would seem over selective.
|
|
Dom Littlewood was doing a piece on the "One Show" a few weeks ago. He asked a MOP if they thought they were entitled to free tap water in a restaurant. The person said yes. He said no. The restaurant were within their rights to charge you for tap water.
|
|
Dom appears to be wrong. The position is as quoted by Smokie, in the link given in an early post on this thread (Look for Para 10.4 if you want to check it), and some of which I have cut and pasted verbatim from the regulation. Just because it is on TV it doesn't mean it is true.
|
>> Dom Littlewood was doing a piece on the "One Show" a few weeks ago. He
>> asked a MOP if they thought they were entitled to free tap water in a
>> restaurant. The person said yes. He said no. The restaurant were within their rights to
>> charge you for tap water.
>>
I thought I saw that on "Don't Get Done Get Dom" and wrote to his producers about it. To give him credit, the episode may have been filmed before the change in the law.
Last edited by: John H on Wed 1 Sep 10 at 14:56
|
|
NOw taken to wearing Cuban heeled boots under my jeans it has to be said, but not adverse to trainers as well.
|
And have you noticed yourself receiving more attention from the opposite sex since?
|
Not really
still drowning in them
|
|
I find a length of 4 by 2 is best for beating them off.
|
Chris S >>Unfortunately the tap water isn't free for the hotelier - they have to pay the waiter's
>>wages, the cost of supplying and washing the glass, any table linen, etc.
>>Even after all that they're losing (sic) the profit they'd make on the beverage you would have had.
Unfortunately it is a part of the cost of the liquor licence.
|
|
They'll be charging for ice in your drinks next...:-)
|
|
Stuart - the cynics among us will note that, when purchasing mixers or soft drinks from a dispenser gun behind the bar, the glass is 2/3rds filled with ice and one is then charged for a glass "full" of drink which is mostly ice.The profit on the dispensed drinks is about 500% already!
|
That is exactly why, if I am in one of the well known fast food chains I always say "No ice, please" in my drink of fizzy stuff.
|
The cost of soft drinks in bars and clubs really annoy me. Fair enough they do give tap water but sometimes I may feel like a coca-cola. Faced with a price of £1.50 for a bottle of fosters or £2.00 for a can of coca-cola I will stick with the Fosters.
If soft drinks were much cheaper in bars and pubs I wonder if people would drink less. There has also been times in a quiet Sunday afternoon when out having a pub lunch if we are driving its always soft drinks but if we are not then a proper beer is the same price as coke so we always end up drinking.
The only place that didn't do this was Jilly's Rockworld it was 70p for a can of coke or about £1.90 (at the time) for a pint of fosters. Towards the end of the night I was on the coke :).
|
The Evening Standard was recently running a name and shame policy on London establishments refusing to supply free tap water. The practice is now illegal, and is enforcable with a hefty fine.
I agree with Rattle, the price of soft drinks in bars and restaurants is an absolute disgrace. SWMBO, the kids and I had lunch at an Italian restaurant in Oxford today, and although the meal and service were excellent, I was shocked to find that the 250 ml or so glass of apple juice I ordered was billed at £1.95. Even at supermarket prices (and they don't pay those), a litre carton is 80p, so what I drunk would have cost me about a tenth of the price had I bought it at a supermarket.
It's fair enough paying a healthy margin on a meal, as you're paying for the skill, time and energy required to prepare and cook it, but to simply pour a cheap drink into a glass, then wash it up afterwards?
|
Thw worst ones is most pubs and clubs seem to buy their 1 litre cartons from BestBuy and the 69p a litre price is clearly printed on the packaging. Wetherspoons are not too bad for this, the soft drinks are always quite a bit cheaper than the booze but so many clubs soft drinks are more expensive and I think that should be ilegal.
I am sure the venues will just say the high soft drink prices means the meals are cheaper. Its the same old buy a TV from Curry's for £200 but then get charged £50 for an HDMI cable routine.
80p for a small carton is also very high, I pay around 22p a litre for a 250ml fresh stuff, if I can buy it for that price what are the cafes paying?
|
|
Until recently I'd only ever popped my head around a Wetherspoons' door. When we went on our "Jolly Boys ---- sorry "125cc as a touring tool research trip to the Lakes" we used the Kendal branch as our watering hole and breakfast provider - brilliant cheap and quality service, good quality no frills service. Fruit juice was free with the breakfast, refill was 80p - cheap as chips.
|
I was shocked to find that the 250 ml or so glass of apple juice I ordered was billed at £1.95. Even at supermarket prices (and they don't pay those), a litre carton is 80p, so what I drunk would have cost me about a tenth of the price had I bought it at a supermarket.
Then I suggest you buy in the supermarket and eat in their car park. the prices in a restaurant don't really reflect the cost of food , they reflect the price of running a restaurant and is naive to believe otherwise.
|
I agree that the price of mixers is diabolical and Wetherspoons are generally very good indeed.
Illustration from a couple of months ago ....
SWMBO and I went to see 'Oliver ' at the Theatre Royal Drury Lane and I ordered two Dry White wine spritzers ( wine and soda water ) for the interval.....
Cost me £13 !! I nearly said forget it..
it was itemised at £5 per glass of wine and £ 1.50 each for two small bottles of soda water....
Don't say its because of the high overheads in Central London .
The same day we had lunch in the Wetherspoons in Leicester Square ........2 x very tasty plates of Ham Egg and Chips , 1 Pint of Bitter and half of Cider - total cost £8.50.
|
|
Overall Wetherspoons is very good. It isn't where you'd take a lady on a first date, to make a good impression but the food is good and there are usually 1/2 a dozen beers on offer at under £2 a pint. Some branches have people in drinking straight from the bottle with their hoodies up and their Argos bling rattling round their necks but this not usual! My local one has Curry night and Steak nights with really good food at £7 including a drink.
|
On recent UK visits I got the impression that Wetherspoon food isn't anything like as high quality as it used to be, although still good value, if you want pub grub.
France went through a phase recently of trying to push bottled water in restaurants, where many customers ask for it anyway, but now things seem to have returned to normal - an automatic carafe of (often chilled) water supplied as a matter of course.
|
|
As alluded to this was a Jolly Boys Outing, cheap beer was a requirment, cheap food was a by-product of looking for cheap beer, it was hot, tasty and filling, my wife has a VFM streak and would probably have eaten there as well, but it's a very nice Italian on Thursday evening...
|
Wetherspoons food is very patcy. When you go to McDonalds its always the same. In Wetherspoons it seems they have local varients in suppliers. Yesterday I had a steak in the Wetherspoons in Warrington which was quite nice and great value. On Sunday I had burger and chips with free drink in the one in Fallowfield and it was poor it was all over cooked.
I am a fan of Wetherspoons but there is a lot more competition than they used to be for them.
When I am in London however I always try and find a Wetherspoons to eat in as I know I won't get conned. There is a good Fullers pubs which can give JD a run for their money though.
|
|
And excellent Fuller's London Pride R&S - never mind the food!
|
CGNorwich
It would help us follow your posts if you made it clear when you are quoting someone's post. Please.
|
"It would help us follow your posts if you made it clear when you are quoting someone's post"
John, roll your cursor over that arrow thing to the left of the post and it highlight's the post it replied to
|
>> John, roll your cursor over that arrow thing to the left of the post and
>> it highlight's the post it replied to
>>
Yes it does, but CGNorwich says:
"I was shocked to find that the 250 ml or so glass of apple juice I ordered was billed at £1.95. Even at supermarket prices (and they don't pay those), a litre carton is 80p, so what I drunk would have cost me about a tenth of the price had I bought it at a supermarket.
Then I suggest you buy in the supermarket and eat in their car park. the prices in a restaurant don't really reflect the cost of food , they reflect the price of running a restaurant and is naive to believe otherwise. "
He expects you to work out that first para is what he is quoting, and the second para is his reply. By your reckoning, my reply to you should have begun:
John, roll your cursor over that arrow thing to the left of the post and it highlight's the post it replied to
|
I've had a few Wetherspoons breakfasts and would recommend them - provided you don't mind sitting in a pub with a handful of alcoholics.
|
|
There were a few drinking in the Kendal branch despite the fact that the sun wasn't over the yard arm, not my cup of tea but each to his own eh ?
|
Exactly, the clientelle in weatherspoons is not exactly top choice.
|
|
Not bothered really, I want to eat not engage with them on any level. Jeepes only been in one branch over 48 hours !
|
Wetherspoons punters are in the main old men who do are probably widowed and just spend all day drinking. There is a bunch of old folk that live in my local Wetherspoons. Some of them have sadly died.
The city centres ones can attract some vile chavs though.
|
"Some of them have sadly died."
You see dead people?
|
>> "Some of them have sadly died."
Blimey, I knew the food was bad but not that bad.
|
|
No I mean some of the regulars I saw there 8 years ago are no longer to be seen. They were fixtures of the place, they were very old then so I assume they have passed away.
|
|
After that damning review I won't be seen dead there again !
|
|
You'd be OK PU. They look like a grey slacks and brown shoe sort of a place....
|
|
Listen, Its so bad its a brown slacks and grey shoes kind of place.
|
Pu.
Have you never treated the other half to a meal at the picture house, it seems to be your local?
I could well be supping a pint or two at the Palladium this weekend. Scarily close. ;>)
|
"Free" tap water in Restaurants and Pubs - Iffy
