As I hope we all know this year's Remembrance Day is the 100th Anniversary of the end of WW1.
This is a trailer for a film coming out. It looks fascinating.
www.bbc.com/news/av/entertainment-arts-45803977/peter-jackson-world-war-one-footage-brought-to-life-by-lord-of-the-rings-director
p.s. the link works from here, but perhaps not from there. If you can't see it, then try searching for "Peter Jackson: World War One footage brought to life by Lord of the Rings director"
Perhaps someone in the UK will post a correct BBC UK link if needed.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 10 Oct 18 at 04:27
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The link works just fine. Watched the trailer on live TV last night. The colourisation adds a whole new dimension.
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Only on 16 Oct 18:00 at Kingston, ( my nearest local cinema showing it)
IIRC this is the only showing time at selected locations around the country.
Will it air on BBC One?
The Sun says
The impressive body of work is planned to be aired on BBC One on Armistice Day.
This year the Armistice Day, which happens on November 11, will happen on a Sunday
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I don't like it - it's a fake.
If viewers haven't the imagination to see what the original photographs represent then they're not going to understand the deeper meanings of anything. It's typical of the current "selfie age" to think that truth lies in coloured pictures of smiling people.
The otherwise excellent BBC series The World at War had annoying fake sound effects added to old grainy film. Every bombardment had the same noise of guns going off, every passing cart had the same creaking of the wheels and the noise of the horses' hooves.
Restoration should be exactly that - not the addition of imaginary details supplied by the restorer.
Just my view :)
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I too am not sure about "colourising" archive footage, it is after all an historical artefact and shouldn't be messed around with, and I feel it glamourises and takes away the grimness of it all, but I am fully prepared to accept that only because of what I am used to seeing with respect to WW1 stuff.
Same applies to "WW2 in colour" that was shown.
The World at War was in fact a Thames TV (ITV) production. A DVD copy of that should be on everyones shelves.
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I can't understand the Human fascination of raking up /remembering - bringing back all the terrible things that have happened that never should have! - let them pass respectfully into the history books where they belong, it's even happening with modern day disasters such as celebrating anniversaries of things like Heysel, Grenfell, Manchester Arena, if you feel you want to remember such things do it in your head, don't make Media circuses out of them, it only keeps the misery alive.
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>> celebrating anniversaries of things like Heysel, Grenfell, Manchester Arena, if you feel you want to
>> remember such things do it in your head, don't make Media circuses out of them,
>> it only keeps the misery alive.
Its a great way of preventing such stuff happening again. How many more tower blocks would go up if we carefully shovelled it under the carpet.
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>>I can't understand the Human fascination of raking up /remembering - bringing back all the terrible things that have happened that never should have! - let them pass respectfully into the history books where they belong,
I am part of the Royal British Legion. I spend time with World War 2 veterans often. I am in awe of these people. The ones I mostly deal with were volunteers. I also deal with their dependants. We have other veterans, but the WWII are the most striking because of their age now.
They have no health insurance, here there is no NHS. They are old, most are in poor health. We pay for what they need. Often we cannot pay enough to give them the luxury we would like to, but at least we can mostly keep them as comfortable as possible.
Often ongoing medical care and drugs, occasionally an artificial limb, perhaps surgery, sometimes live-in care, sometimes simply help with living expenses.
Sadly, sometimes their funeral. Two in the last 12 months, both of whom I knew well. And then we maintain their graves. A lot of graves.
I could show you a picture of one grave we maintain. The top corner is stained pink. His wife goes to his gravestone every week and kisses it. She wears pink lipstick.
It all costs a lot of money.
Sometimes we provide a lunch, with British Bangers and mashed potato and spotted dick. [you cannot believe the hoops I jump through to make that happen in South America].
We do big significant stuff and little comforting stuff.
I think we should remember the wars. I think we should be proud of what those people did, however much we hate the war itself. We should remember it well enough to take part in Remembrance out of respect, and give money to help those that need it now, because they didn't hesitate to help the world when it needed it.
The youngest veteran I work with served in Afghanistan. The oldest the Second World War.
We should remember, we should help and support those who need it, God knows they deserve it. If it makes you uncomfortable or you don't like it, get over yourself and ignore it.
I am proud of what these people did in service of our Country, it's Commonwealth and our allies.
They should be remembered. The history should be raked up, both to respect them and to raise money for them. Real, practical help is always needed.
And I am proud to help them.
Wear your poppy with pride. They do.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 11 Oct 18 at 03:31
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>>Wear your poppy with pride. They do.
Thank you Mark. Excellent post and wholeheartedly agree.
MD
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I too am in awe of these people and of the work of the RBL. Part of our exploration of client's circumstances is to ask, where appropriate, if they have served in or have connections with HM Forces so that we can refer on to RBL.
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>>Same applies to "WW2 in colour" that was shown.
Ah, but that was original colour footage (if it's the stuff I'm thinking of). Completely changes ones view of the war, it makes it feel so much more immediate, doesn't it.
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Odd isn't it, how your perspective changes. I was born just 13 years after the end of WW2, so it was a fresh, and often raw memory in the minds of many of the adults who were around during my childhood. To me and my generation, it was but a chunk of history, in which we played no part. However, now that I am older, I see events that took place within the last twenty years as relatively recent and current. I suppose it was ever thus.
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>> Odd isn't it, how your perspective changes.
>>
I am of similar age, born 1955. I think the other part of the perspective is because you know people who served in ww2, I never knew anyone who fought in the first war, whereas the last of my parents friends who was involved in WW2 died only 2 or 3 years ago.
Whatever the perspective, in my view, given the scale of the conflicts, the effect of the sacrifices, and the number of deaths that an annual act of remembrance is right and proper and will be throughout my lifetime. Beyond that it will be up to future generations.
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>> >> Odd isn't it, how your perspective changes.
>> >>
>> I am of similar age, born 1955.
Born in 54, in the East End till 62. The war was still evident, grandparents lived in a terrace with wodern props the only thing holding up their wall now party to a bomb site, such wastelands and scars like gaps in teeth being favourite playgrounds, with their sometimes freshly exposed cellars. UXB's a way of life, some foodstuff only just come off ration, most stuff still hard to get. Gasmasks still hanging behind doors on hooks, uniforms still hanging up in wardrobes, national service still prevalent and Korea still a recent memory.
It was a grim old place and time,
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 10 Oct 18 at 17:11
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Rationing didn't end until 1954 - if Wiki is accurate.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationing_in_the_United_Kingdom
I had forgotten about clothes being rationed - on coupons.
I remember sweets coming off ration. There was such a rush on sweet supplies that rationing was re-imposed for a period of time.
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Always strange reading that, to see rationing for near 10 years after the war.
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I've got mixed feelings on this one.
I was born in 1946 and remember listening, at a very young age, to adults relating so many horror stories of the war. It scared me so much.
My Father fought in WW1 and WW2 and my three brothers, the youngest who was 16 years older than me, were all called up for National service. One in the RAF, one in the Navy and one in the Parachute Regiment who was old enough to be dropped behind enemy lines.
I remember rationing and cleaning my younger brothers brass buttons with a tin of Duraglit when he was on leave for pocket money.
The bad memories make me think we should let it go now but I've been to the Menin Gate more than once and visited the war graves across Europe and I love the way they never forget.
Pat
Last edited by: Pat on Wed 10 Oct 18 at 17:55
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Blimey, I'm a year younger and also was brought up on the east edge of London but I don#t really remember it being quite that grim. I do have a vague recollection of one of those corrugated shelters in my garden but I'm probably wrong.
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Between Manor Park and Wanstead actually :-). But you have a point I suppose.
House backed on to City of London Cemetery (top end of Wanstead Park Avenue)
www.google.co.uk/maps/search/wanstead+park+avenue/@51.56048,0.0410853,16.5z
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>> Between Manor Park and Wanstead actually :-). But you have a point I suppose.
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>> House backed on to City of London Cemetery (top end of Wanstead Park Avenue)
>> www.google.co.uk/maps/search/wanstead+park+avenue/@51.56048,0.0410853,16.5z
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Use google earth, search percy road canning town, then slide the image date back to 1945
All those light grey smudges? bomb sites.
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>> I too am not sure about "colourising" archive footage, it is after all an historical artefact and shouldn't be messed around with, and I feel it glamourises and takes away the grimness of it all,
The artifact has not been messed around with. A new copy has been made but the original remains unchanged.
If your point is to understand more about the "people" perspectives then surely the most accurate and representative image possible is useful.
It is the black and white picture which is unrealistic in its depiction of the war.
Though, as you say, it is what we're used to.
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I think one needs to separate the art form and the historical item from the accurate representation of the lives of people in that war.
If this film was purporting to be a genuine item from the war, then it would indeed be fake. But it is not pretending to be that.
As a representation of the war, then it is a considerably more accurate than a b&w picture with it's artificial, incomplete and inaccurate scenes.
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When I was a young loan officer I visited an old soldier who was running an employment agency.
We disagreed on terms quite dramatically and I knew we wouldn't go as low as he wanted.
He said to me "What we need is another war to get rid of some of the horrible youth that we have today!" and I told him in no uncertain terms that he was a callous old git for wishing death on millions.
Next day my director got a complaint in writing. Her hubby was a major in the army who worked his way up from a squaddie at 16. She mentioned the conversation to him and he believed that no soldier that had gone through any conflict would wish it on anyone else and we got permission to terminate the client agreement due to an abusive client.
Mrs Z's granddad joined up at 14 in WW1 and was found wounded in France by some nuns. He was hidden from the Germans until he was better and then returned to the allies. We look at the old films and photos to see if we can catch a glimpse of him - he was very distinctive as he acquired a shock of white hair in his early teens because of the experience. Never seen him though. The scars were horrible but mostly hidden by clothes.
In WW2, Mrs Z's mum stepped out to the back garden to play with her brother when their house crumbled behind her. A loan raider just happened to empty its bombs before heading back over the channel. Both survived, thank goodness or there wouldn't be a Mrs Z.
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I have mixed feelings about all this.
I must be one of the oldest posters on here. I was at school during WW2, so I have vivid memories of lessons in the air raid shelters while there were raids on. Listening to the V1s going over and the engines stopping and waiting for that low 'crump'. I later did National Service.
However I don't normally bother to go the the service at the local War Memorial unless I am laying a wreath for one of the organisations I am involved with.
To get to my point. The Rugby Football Union commissioned a pair of gates to be erected at Twickenham.
worldrugbymuseum.blog/2016/11/11/twickenhams-rose-and-poppy-gates/
I question the wisdom of this. Would that money not have been better spent on helping veterans of the services? Men and women who for one reason or another are now suffering, whether physically, mentally, or financially?
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>>I have mixed feelings about all this.>>
I have the greatest respect for anyone who has fought for this or country but believe that front line at the start of any war should consist of politicians.
I also think that this is tacky.
www.express.co.uk/news/uk/967998/car-crash-fireball-jonathan-smith-peugeot-206-edinburgh-bmw-audi-a3
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One thing I don't like at this time of year is all the outrage about people wearing or not wearing a poppy. It should be up to the individual to decide and not have to explain their choice.
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>> One thing I don't like at this time of year is all the outrage about
>> people wearing or not wearing a poppy.
>>
It's strangely reminiscent of the "white feather" phenomenon in the first world war - attempting to shame people perceived as shirking into doing their patriotic duty.
_
I take NoFM2R's point that the original photographs still exist and have not been altered, but it is the published ones that will capture the attention and become fixed in the mind as the "proper" ones.
A little bit like correcting photographs of models and celebrities to smooth out wrinkes, sagging flesh, waistline, etc.
Where will it end, once you accept the legitimacy of altering a photograph to increase its "relevance" to the modern age? What about erasing images of people now considered non-PC who happen to appear in group scenes? The Eastern bloc were prolific exponents of that - Trotsky eliminated from the famous shot of Lenin haranguing the crowd, Dubcek removed from the photograph of government ministers.
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>> >> One thing I don't like at this time of year is all the outrage
>> about
>> >> people wearing or not wearing a poppy.
I may buy one, I may not. I may buy one and not wear it. It all depends. One year I lent the dog to the poppy seller to sit next to him while I had coffee nearby. He sold more in that 30 mins than he did for the rest of the day.
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They probably thought he was down and out, as they do when they see you sitting on a seat somewhere.
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They could see that through the windows of Starbucks?
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Mind you, my coffee might have a stronger roast this week
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-45820844
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>>A little bit like correcting photographs of models and celebrities
Quite different. Had the model of the celebrities been changed to make them MORE accurate and realistic, then it would have been closer comparison.
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>> but it is the published ones that will capture the attention and become fixed in the mind as the "proper" ones.
And a good thing too. Very difficult to relate to the horror when it's almost impossibly crackly black and white. When it's been smoothed out, and in colour, makes it all seem so much closer.
The crackly b&w may be 'proper' but they still exist in original form, and the improved is much easier to associate with. Moreover, it means a lot more people will watch it. Have you actually seen bits of the film?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRed-Ri9IpI
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The crackly b&w may be 'proper' but they still exist in original form, and the
>> improved is much easier to associate with. Moreover, it means a lot more people will
>> watch it. Have you actually seen bits of the film?
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>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRed-Ri9IpI
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First time I've seen the footage. I quite like what they've done with it
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It is impressive what they have done - some clever programs for sure that will have auto-coloured a lot of this. And then they used lip readers to work out what was being said so actors could recreate the voices speaking.
I look forward to watching the finished film.
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>> I look forward to watching the finished film.
I too.
I can see no harm at all in this project, quite the opposite. I hope Donald Trump watches it, every politician in fact.
b. 1953, I grew up with relatives around me who had fought in both world wars. The realisation that both generations before me had each had to live through years of war as children or young adults, some of them twice, some of them as combatants, was a disturbing one as I'm sure it was for others.
It must be so much more remote for my childrens' generation who, and whose own parents, have been feather-bedded by comparison. This film will bring it home in a way that the jerky, blurry monochrome footage can't.
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Sorry that link was meant to show the huge roadside memorial which is still there but looking very run down.
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>> Sorry that link was meant to show the huge roadside memorial which is still there
>> but looking very run down.
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That unfortunately is what happens, as no one wants to take responsibility for tidying them or clearing up in due course.
There was one sad but humorous one I passed commemorating a young girl. Apart from the usual flowers there were several soft toys, and then suddenly an enormous teddy bear, originally propped seated against a traffic sign.
After a few weeks and months of rain and wind the flowers and toys were scattered about, and the bear had fallen onto its front. The scene then resembled a grizzly bear rumaging through a rubbish tip.
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>>I also think that this is tacky.<<
Yes, it is but it's what some people need to do to alleviate the grief and shock of a sudden loss.
I can look at the roadside memorials and understand that feeling of utter shock, the feeling that you must do something, anything to help.
Of course, in the cold light of day it doesn't really help but at the time it was a brief respite from the thoughts of the future and directed thoughts to that moment.
Clearing them up afterwards would be too painful for anyone to be expected to do and I wouldn't expect the bereaved to have to do that.
Pat
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I agree. Genuine grief is very difficult to cope with, and if that helps a grieving person it doesn't hurt us to put up with a bit of tack, does it?
That is not to say that some of them are not just attention seeking, but how would you know the difference?
You wouldn't have thought it was beyond the wit of the council to clear it up after a decent period of time. I guess their problem is the fear of being villified for being cruel by today's media.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 11 Oct 18 at 17:10
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Here's the Telegraph review.
www.telegraph.co.uk/films/0/shall-not-grow-old-review-peter-jacksons-historical-portrait/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_fb
I'd love to go to see it. But there's only one screening within the M25 at a sensible hour (6.15pm) which is sold out. Otherwise it's 1am in Greenwich. Hopeless.
theyshallnotgrowold.film/
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It was at our local independent cinema yesterday evening but the timings did not work out. I would be surprised if they didn't get it back. Fall back is to watch on the TV.
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It was only on at 1800 at all cinemas showing it.
I read that due to demand it will be shown again at cinemas.
I did see it ( The world premier) and it was very very good.
I left it late to book and you can ONLY book on line. Kingston full, Richmond full, Wimbledon full XXXX!!!! but hey there were two showings at 1800 and one was 75% empty. Commenced booking and when I got to CC i got a message about enable cookies and ZAP.
Virtually impossible to find a telephone number and speak to a real person anywhere in the Odeon dis-organisation.
" Yes loads of complaints, Yes system problem, Yes no sensible error messages. Sorry"
My daughter wanted to see it too so she traveled from Waterloo to buy tickets at the door. Success !
I suspect few would risk buying at the door so 25% full.
Rant over
Just dealing with film shot by hand cranked cameras varying in speed and not consistent plus warn sprocket holes so as to display it at " normal speed" and fill in the missing frames is astounding.
Clean up the frames, colour them, lip read and and a suitable voice - WOW!
Lot of "recent" interviews ( no images) with WW1 soldiers voices in the background.
It was just a snap shot not a war history and also covered the aftermath of cease fire and response on homecoming.
Very enlightening to me.
The whole film left me with a lasting impression.
It was hoped that other museums could use the basic revamping on their films.
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>> I left it late to book and you can ONLY book on line
Our local cinema can only be booked in person or over the phone. They still only take cash. I might not have got in yesterday anyway but I could not make 6pm.
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I realise that this is not particularly relevant to you lot, but I'm feeling chuffed and at least you'll understand the significance to me.
In both World Wars a significant amount of volunteers from Chile travelled through considerable hardship to fight in a war that they didn't have to.
I am a Director of the Royal British Legion and we spend a great deal of money looking after veterans and their dependents from the World Wars in Chile.
I have just received final confirmation from Warner Brothers (they own the international distribution rights) that they will deliver me a copy of the film and allow us to show it at a cinema in Chile as part of a Royal British Legion fundraiser in the next few weeks.
I had already discussed the matter with Peter Jackson, The BBC, The Imperial War Museum and Warner Brothers was the final hurdle.
Brilliant, I am very pleased and so grateful to Warner Brothers in general and Peter Petersen in particular.
This will be great.
[p.s. yes I know the title is not quite right, it doesn't matter]
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 4 Jan 19 at 14:54
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Excellent.
Yesterday I took my old mum on her weekly visit to see her 93yo sis in a nursing home. Sis was telling me that her parents had visited in the morning. Which reminded me that my grandfather fought in Gallipoli and after suffering some kind of trauma was invalided home, but insisted on returning and joined the Royal Medical Corps, serving close to the Front Line if not on it. Horrors you can’t even begin to imagine my grandmother told me. He was then blinded in one eye, the op didn’t go well and he completely lost his sight.
My abiding memory of him is marching round his tiny back to back non des res terraced house in Bradford singing Nelly the Elephant in step with my brother. Ever since then I’ve always keenly supported the RBL.
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The moment the film changes from black and white to colour somehow makes it seem real.
I know the black and white images are real, but the jerky images and grain seems to place them in an era out of our time.
Peter Jackson deserves a gong for his work on this.
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Agree with all of the above. Made it very real indeed. Hope it engages a new generation. Good on you Mark.
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Thank you, I am pleased I got it done, and pleased at the reaction of our beneficiaries and other veterans here, who will all see it for free with provided transport and care.
The other attendees though will be doing their [significant] bit to fund our ever increasing costs.
I think I am intending that it will be run like going to see a posh West End play; a glass or two of champagne as a welcoming, drinks and horses doovers at half-time, and a cocktail gathering afterwards. I have high hopes. I have commitments to attend from 12 or so Ambassadors and Consuls, and that almost always causes loads of the other ranks to turn out.
I must say though, that Warner brothers have been superb. Before them the BBC was ok, The Imperial War Museum was outstandingly pleasant and helpful but Warner Brothers outstrip them all. They didn't make the decision very quickly, but once made they have really swung their weight, which is considerable, in behind the challenge.
My phone is buzzing with calls from WB Los Angeles and Latin America as well as others that they are sending my way to help.
Definitely on my good list of companies to be supported.
You will no doubt be aware that many charities are measured by how much of each pound raised is actually spent on the beneficiaries?
Here, for us, it is 100%. Every last peso. We're quite proud of that.
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For some years I was involved with fund raising on a lesser scale, but I remember well how immensely satisfying it can be when something all falls into place. I also remember how hard it sometimes was to engage the right people to achieve the desired outcome. I am sure the event will be a huge success, well done!!
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We shall remember... - CGNorwich
