I received a letter today from my GP practice advising me that since I am over 65 I should have the aTIV vaccine rather than the QIV vaccine being given to the under 65 age group.
The letter then went on to say that the surgery had no stock of the aTIV vaccine and was unlikely to have any in the foreseeable future. It then stated that some local pharmacies had the vaccine but did not advise which ones.
I rang the practice this afternoon. and asked where I could get the vaccine. They told me they could not give me that information and I would have to ring around.
Is this all a plot to get rid of the older generation with a flu epidemic?
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Wed 3 Oct 18 at 20:11
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Referring patients to local businesses (pharmacies) is probably a legal minefield.
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>> Referring patients to local businesses (pharmacies) is probably a legal minefield.
Absolutely it is, risk of graft at worst and accusations at least.
The surgery could maintain a list of local pharmacies who stock the product but if that's a moving target there's time/money in keeping it up to date. Woe betide if a business is missed, never mind question of how far away is local. But with the internet......
Having worked around 'legal' for all but 40 years the question of lawyer recommendations I cannot give has been a constant theme. Sending people to the public library to find the Law Society directory seemed to be sending them on a bit of a mission. www.lawsociety.org.uk/for-the-public/ makes it much simpler.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 3 Oct 18 at 21:43
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I'm sure you are correct but it's not exactly helpful in achieving the overall objective of getting the maximum number of people vaccinated.
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>> Referring patients to local businesses (pharmacies) is probably a legal minefield.
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Why is that different from prescribing drugs made by businesses? Whatever a doctor advises you to do, someone is going to benefit financially, even if it's only to go to the gym or eat more fruit and veg.
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>> I received a letter today from my GP practice advising me that since I am
>> over 65 I should have the aTIV vaccine rather than the QIV vaccine being given
>> to the under 65 age group.
This is what I was told by the nurse at my GP practice yesterday. I could have the under 65 jab if I wanted, but there was an immunity component in the over 65s jab which was absent from the under 65.
I decided to wait another week or two to see if the over 65 stuff comes in.
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Let's hope you don't get the flu later this week then
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Surely the legal complications could be avoided if the government itself published availability information, at least via its website.
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Adults who aren't eligible for a flu vaccine on the NHS can pay for a flu vaccination privately. The flu vaccine may be available from pharmacies or in supermarkets. It is provided on a private patient basis and you have to pay. The vaccine costs up to £20.
From the NHS website.
I'll get mine FOC from the NHS at my local hospital as an employee thing..
Last edited by: R.P. on Thu 4 Oct 18 at 10:09
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Cheapelzst is currently ASDA who are charging £7. Free of course if you are over 65 or pregnant.
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Don’t accept the QIV vaccine if You are over 65. It gives little or no protection . There seems to have been a major screw-up in the distribution of the aTIV vaccine which combined with delays in the manufacture mean that it could be well into the flu season before GPs have supplies. Best bet is to check with the local pharmacies.
www.pulsetoday.co.uk/clinical/immunisation/gp-practices-could-miss-out-on-flu-vaccine-payments-for-over-65s-amid-shortage/20037326.article
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SWMBO and I are booked in at our surgery next Saturday for flu jabs .
No idea which vaccine is being provided but as we are both over 65 I will now ask the question.
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Seems a bit odd.
GP practices get a payment per vaccine (7 or 8 quid).
If my practice was missing out on this because we couldn't get vaccines I would be kicking up a stink.
After last year's outbreak I would certainly advise getting a jab though the severity of each year's flu season, and effectiveness of the vaccine are both highly variable.
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Exactly, they look at the data from the Southern Hemisphere for the period before and make an 'educated guess', when you look at the actual effectiveness rate then it can come as quite a surprise and not always told to the person having the jab.
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>>Perhaps you best check supplies
Aye, what we have here is 3 different jabs now - the regular one for under 65s, a different one for 65-74, and the 'boosted' one for 75+
No issue with overall supplies though.
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As I understand it each different jab is only at it's most effective with one particular strain of the virus, though it has some impact across wider range.
Overall, is it worth having?
And if it is, why wouldn't you give everyone the 'boosted' one?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 4 Oct 18 at 17:21
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I read or heard somewhere that the current jab is good against four strains. Checking the NHS website it refers back to the WHO website which says
Recommended composition of influenza virus vaccines for use in the 2018-2019 northern hemisphere influenza season
22 February 2018
It is recommended that quadrivalent vaccines for use in the 2018-2019 northern hemisphere influenza season contain the following:
an A/Michigan/45/2015 (H1N1)pdm09-like virus;
an A/Singapore/INFIMH-16-0019/2016 (H3N2)-like virus;
a B/Colorado/06/2017-like virus (B/Victoria/2/87 lineage); and
a B/Phuket/3073/2013-like virus (B/Yamagata/16/88 lineage).
It is recommended that the influenza B virus component of trivalent vaccines for use in the 2018-2019 northern hemisphere influenza season be a B/Colorado/06/2017-like virus of the B/Victoria/2/87-lineage
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>>As I understand it each different jab is only at it's most effective with one particular strain of the virus, though it has some impact across wider range.
Usually 3 or 4 different strains are chosen to make each vaccine (basically the ones they think are most likely to become pandemic).
>>Overall, is it worth having?
If you are at particular risk of dying if you get the 'flu, then yes. Vaccine effectiveness tends to be between 10 and 50%, so it is certainly not going to eradicate an outbreak but will potentially lessen the pressure on hospital services.
>>And if it is, why wouldn't you give everyone the 'boosted' one?
The boosted one is probably unnecessary in younger patients - last year's vaccine seemed to be ok for under 65s, but almost useless in the elderly (esp 75+) hence the move to a separate vaccine for them.
I think the 'boosted' type is more likely to give a sore arm due to the way it works - I had the regular type last week and have felt nothing since.
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>>Overall, is it worth having?
If you are at particular risk of dying if you get the 'flu, then yes.
If you have ever had a bad dose of flu then I think you would say that reducing the risk of a further bout is definitely worthwhile whatever your health or age. A lot of people underestimate how bad flu can be.
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I guess I should rephrase;
I get that avoiding flu is a worthwhile thing to do. My question really is, how effective are the vaccines in the real world, given how many different variants of the virus there are?
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If the flu virus has your name on it, it will get you.
Most people don't get it, even those who aren't vacinated.
I can't help feeling that worrying about illness makes you more likely to get it.
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I'm no expert but my perception is that the vaccines are likely to work in inverse proportion to how much they are needed to prevent a pandemic.
The herd develops a level of immunity, the vaccines are made from the most recent and prevalent types, and then the virus changes. If it changes a bit, the herd immunity and the vaccines still work. If it's a major change then both the vaccines and the herd immunity will be less effective. At that stage, if it's a nasty one, we are in trouble.
I had what I was told was flu at about 15, Hong Kong flu I think it was. It laid me low for a fortnight, I lost a lot of weight and about three days. I've had what I have called flu-ey symptoms many times since (raised temperature, aches and pains, often lasting only a day or two) but nothing near what I had as a teenager.
I've never had a flu jab but having just turned 65 this year I have a invitation from the GP. I will book myself in.
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>>the vaccines are made from the most recent
>> and prevalent types
I understand the vaccines are decided around the previous February, necessary because it takes time to grow the relevant cultures.
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Does your fatalism extend to all vaccinations or is it confined to ‘flu?
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I just wish that patients were given the full facts before they agreed to the jab, hopefully thy are told that at best it could be only 50% effective and at worst of no benefit rather than the impression that that you won't catch flu once you've had it.
Of course it doesn't stop you getting a really bad cold which some think it will.
Plus my big gripe is that we've stopped pushing the most effective barrier to flu which is basic hygiene... 'coughs and sneezes spread diseases'... bin your tissues... but the biggest help is HAND WASHING!
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>> Does your fatalism extend to all vaccinations or is it confined to ‘flu?
Just flu. Insidious thing.
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We don't want this:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu
In this infamous pandemic, the 'healthier' immune systems in younger adults, able to over-react more impressivelty, probably led to their demise.
Every day is a school day - I didn't know this is where the name came from:
To maintain morale, wartime censors minimized early reports of illness and mortality in Germany, the United Kingdom, France, and the United States. Papers were free to report the epidemic's effects in neutral Spain (such as the grave illness of King Alfonso XIII).This created a false impression of Spain as especially hard hit, thereby giving rise to the pandemic's nickname, "Spanish Flu".
Last edited by: Lygonos on Thu 4 Oct 18 at 21:05
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I had an inkling. It was pretty grim, often wondered whether the huge amount of decaying corpses on north west Europe had something to do with it,
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SWMBO and I both had our flu jabs this morning .
Vaccine was called Fluad and is the over 65 vaccine . The nurse gave us an explanatory leaflet provided by the manufacturer when I asked the question.
We got to the surgery just after 9 am and milling herd of OAP's was queuing out the door....the nurse was apparently given just 2 minutes per appointment and the district nurses were also handing out leaflets in reception. The whole reception an corridors to the surgery were rammed.
The fun part was that having booked in on the screen in reception I was the first to be called in with SWMBO and walking past at least 20 people who got there before us
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Had mine today. Didn't turn up until late in the morning (11:55 to be precise).
No queue, went straight in and out. I've always found it best to let the hypochondriacs go first who are already queuing outside the door before they've opened ;)
A lot easier to park as well.
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We always get ours dome at the Chemist, no booking, no waiting, no queues, straight in and out! - advantages of living in a small town.
Last edited by: smokie on Sun 14 Oct 18 at 08:44
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Just to point out that we , and presumably all the others already awaiting , had confirmed appointment times. I was at 9.06 and SWMBO at 9.08.so we turned up one minute ahead of booked time , clocked in on the screen in teception and were called in spot on time.
Who knows why the others were all there so early.....maybe they thought that the vaccine would run out.
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We got our flu injection a few weeks ago.Got a notice from the doctor which we receive every year.If it works fine,if not we have to wait and see.Flu can be a killer.
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"Who knows why the others were all there so early....."
Made a nice change from clogging up the supermarket aisles to keep warm I suppose... :-)
Last edited by: smokie on Sun 14 Oct 18 at 12:38
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Flu Vaccination - Old Navy
