Non-motoring > Gove, Scallops and Good Humour	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Ambo	Replies: 37

Thu 30 Aug 18 13:32   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - Ambo

What more should Gove do about this? www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ03CiyTVqQ (“A Frenchman who does not more or less hate and fear England, an Englishman who does not regard France with more or less good-humoured impatience, is usually either a god or beast”… George Saintsbury.) Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 30 Aug 18 14:28   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - Bromptonaut

Another perspective here: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/29/france-britain-scallop-war-brexit-channel-clashes-environment Large UK boats fishing on an industrial scale in an area where, for conservation, reasons the French are not allowed to fish at this time of year. Not something Brexit will solve either. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 30 Aug 18 16:00   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - Old Navy

Don't expect a Navy gunboat, ours is guarding Gibraltar. The days when we could engage in a cod war (or any maritime based war) are long gone. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 30 Aug 18 16:06   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - CGNorwich

So good news then. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 30 Aug 18 16:10   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - Old Navy

Don't worry the Navy can still nuc a continent if required. youtu.be/1aPvGGvnAGQ Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 30 Aug 18 at 16:14 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 30 Aug 18 17:43   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - CGNorwich

They managed to lose three cod wars though against that world superpower, Iceland, so scallop boats would probably be a bit beyond their capabilities. Last edited by: CGNorwich on Thu 30 Aug 18 at 17:45 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 30 Aug 18 18:09   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - Old Navy

We lost a ramming contest because our ships weren't designed for it and the spineless politicians would not allow guns to be used. I hope you never have to defend the country if, or when it comes to a shooting war. You sound like a politically correct extremist like the ones who have ruined law and order in this country. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 30 Aug 18 18:29   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - No FM2R

I can't say that CG and I have a lot of common ground at times, but calling him a PC Extremist is wildly inappropriate. Not that he needs my support. He's not one, and his view or perspective of various matters is frequently informative and often original. In this case, for example, he said that the Navy failed to win, and you said it wasn't their fault. CG didn't say anything about 'fault'. And I can see no reason why the Navy would be any more effective now in this type of conflict than they were previously. Whether or not it is their "fault". Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 30 Aug 18 at 18:30 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 30 Aug 18 18:33   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - Old Navy

>> >> And I can see no reason why the Navy would be any more effective now >> in this type of conflict than they were previously. Whether or not it is their >> "fault". >> There is no chance that they would be effective, they have neither the manpower or ships. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 30 Aug 18 18:59   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - CGNorwich

"you sound like a politically correct extremist like the ones who have ruined law and order in this country." Wrong on both counts. Neither am I politically correct whatever that may mean nor has law and order been ruined in this country unless of course you mean we no longer hang and flog people or incarcerate them for being gay and have somewhat belatedly realised how much racism, sexual discrimination and sexual abuse has existed and often been condoned in this country. Getting back to cod wars do you not see the sheer ludicrousness of the conflict as as a way of settling an economic dispute. Here are the ships involved in the first war: Icelandic Coast Guard 6 Patrol vessels Royal Navy 17 Destroyers 19 Frigates 2 Mine sweepers 10 RFA supply vessels At the end of the day we were powerless. Military strength ultimately meant nothing in a dispute like this as is often the case. Despite your Colonel Blimp type views we could hardly have blown the ships of an ally and fellow NATO member our of the water. After another two conflicts we finally sat down and negotiated with the Icelanders and conceded far more that we could probably have agreed at the beginning of the conflicts. A minor dispute over scallops can surely be resolved in a civilised manner. Reply to this message | Report message       3

Thu 30 Aug 18 19:19   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - MD

Despite having crossed Oars previously CG I consider your post to be excellent. Chapeau. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 30 Aug 18 20:06   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - CGNorwich

Why thank you MD Most kind. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 30 Aug 18 19:23   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - Old Navy

>> A minor dispute over scallops can surely be resolved in a civilised manner. >> I am sure it can, but politicians priorities are the number of votes they can get. That is one reason I have kept out of the 50odd chapter Brexit thread. I suspect most things were resolved some time ago behind the scenes. The politicians on both sides have to be seen to be defending their corner or their job is gone at the next vote Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 30 Aug 18 20:42   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - Rudedog

My understanding was that they were in French waters, would a RN gunboat really cross into their territory just for a few shellfish? Very interesting piece on the radio indicating that the majority of British fishing quoter's have already been sold off to non-UK companies which means little will change post Brexit unless the quoter's are bought back (bit like the utilities), many of the big Dutch companies 'sublet' parts of the quoter's they own down to smaller firms. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 30 Aug 18 21:04   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - Old Navy

>> My understanding was that they were in French waters, would a RN gunboat really cross >> into their territory just for a few shellfish? >> Are they not European waters, at least until March. I have seen many European flagged fishing boats around the western isles. The quotas only apply to the amount of fish allowed to be landed. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 30 Aug 18 21:28   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - sooty123

> Are they not European waters, at least until March. I have seen many European flagged >> fishing boats around the western isles. The quotas only apply to the amount of fish >> allowed to be landed. >> I believe they were inside the 12M limit. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 30 Aug 18 21:42   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - No FM2R

From the article link above... "The clashes took place in “French waters” – that is to say about 15 miles from the French coast at a point where the Channel is about 100 miles wide, well beyond any possible legal definition of British waters." Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 30 Aug 18 21:48   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - No FM2R

Also.... "Claims by UKIP and others that the British fishing industry has suffered a calamitous decline “because of the CFP” are misleading. The big British fishing companies and the big boats are doing fine. They are now the most prosperous in Europe, with record revenues in 2017 and operating profits averaging 25%." Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 30 Aug 18 21:49   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - No FM2R

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/11/brexit-uk-fishermen-fishing-industry-quotas-uk-government Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 31 Aug 18 08:03   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - Cliff Pope

>> >> The politicians on both sides have to be seen to be defending their corner or their job is >> gone at the next vote >> You are joking or being ironic, aren't you? Theresa May? Corner? Job? Reply to this message | Report message       1

Fri 31 Aug 18 14:42   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - CGNorwich

Incidentally why don't we eat more scallops in the UK. In Nova Scotia you can get them deep fried in every fish and chip shop Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 1 Sep 18 20:12   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - Old Navy

>> Don't expect a Navy gunboat, ours is guarding Gibraltar. The days when we could engage >> in a cod war (or any maritime based war) are long gone. >> www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6121457/Scallop-Wars-UK-Lord-West-says-Britain-doesnt-ships-patrol-borders.html Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 1 Sep 18 20:31   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - Haywain

"The days when we could engage in a cod war (or any maritime based war) are long gone." We don't have enough smaller vessels to patrol our inshore waters either. A yacht landed an unspecified number of illegals at a marina just down from us on the Orwell a couple of weeks ago. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 1 Sep 18 20:37   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - No FM2R

So even the Scallops are trying to come ashore illegally. Dear oh dear, is there no end. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 1 Sep 18 20:45   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - Haywain

"So even the Scallops are trying to come ashore illegally." Nice thought - I'd be down there with my bucket to arrest them. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Sat 1 Sep 18 20:47   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - Old Navy

>> So even the Scallops are trying to come ashore illegally. Dear oh dear, is there >> no end. >> Don't worry, we have two vanity project aircraft carriers with no aircraft, are under manned, and not enough ships or submarines to provide their defence or logistic support. Still what do you expect from a country that has been living beyond its means for a century or so. Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 1 Sep 18 at 20:50 Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 1 Sep 18 22:32   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - Zero

>> Don't worry, we have two vanity project aircraft carriers with no aircraft, I seem to recall the Americans are about to land a couple of F35B's on it shortly. We can't we dont have any yet. >> country that has been living beyond its means for a century or so.century or so. Thats a bit harsh, its only been about 80 years. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 1 Sep 18 22:39   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - rtj70

>> We can't we dont have any yet. We do have a few because they flew over a few weeks back. A bit of a logistics nightmare I think which made me wonder why they were not shipped over. I can see why we'd not risk one of ours landing on the new carrier being tested. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 1 Sep 18 22:54   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - sooty123

> We do have a few because they flew over a few weeks back. A bit >> of a logistics nightmare I think which made me wonder why they were not shipped >> over. 14 IIRC, not that much of a nightmare at all, aircraft are routinely tanked across the Atlantic. Although just clarity not all of them were tanked across. >> I can see why we'd not risk one of ours landing on the new carrier >> being tested. >> It'll be one of ours I'm pretty sure about that. Last edited by: sooty123 on Sat 1 Sep 18 at 22:58 Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 1 Sep 18 23:00   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - rtj70

But the backup needed if there was a problem made it risky. Don't forget they have only one engine. And needed to refuel multiple times - had one ditched getting to the pilot would not have been easy. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 1 Sep 18 23:05   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - sooty123

>> But the backup needed if there was a problem made it risky. Don't forget they> have only one engine. And needed to refuel multiple times - had one ditched getting >> to the pilot would not have been easy. >> Like i said it's honestly not that unusual/risky it happens all the time. It probably just seemed that way as it was covered in the media. Routine trails aren't covered Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 1 Sep 18 22:24   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - Zero

>> "The days when we could engage in a cod war (or any maritime based war) >> are long gone." >> >> We don't have enough smaller vessels to patrol our inshore waters either. A yacht landed >> an unspecified number of illegals at a marina just down from us on the Orwell >> a couple of weeks ago. It was ever thus, I understand even a group of illegal Germans led by Michael Caine landed nearby Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 31 Aug 18 16:14   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - movilogo

>> Large UK boats fishing on an industrial scale in an area where, for conservation, reasons the French are not allowed to fish at this time of year. So only French are not allowed but any EU country is allowed? Isn't it the main problem - local rules are overridden by EU rules? Reply to this message | Report message       1

Fri 31 Aug 18 16:56   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - No FM2R

No. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 31 Aug 18 17:16   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - Haywain

Bizarre, isn't it? As I understand it, the E.U. has banned pulse fishing; the Dutch have continued with pulse fishing, but on an 'experimental/research' basis. The Dutch have a research fleet of some 79 boats. As an amateur sea angler, I am not allowed to keep a single Sea Bass while commercial fishing for Bass is still allowed. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 31 Aug 18 17:34   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - Old Navy

Sounds like the "research" Japanese whaling fleets. I am sure there are many playing various systems. Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 31 Aug 18 at 17:34 Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 31 Aug 18 18:48   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - Bromptonaut

>> So only French are not allowed but any EU country is allowed? Isn't it the >> main problem - local rules are overridden by EU rules? No. It can be difficult to sort out what the facts are as there's disputed history but it's much more complicated then that. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Sat 1 Sep 18 12:46   Gove, Scallops and Good Humour - Ambo

Scallops make good kebabs, skewered with pancetta (bacon at a pinch). Reply to this message | Report message