Unfortunately, this evening I could not avoid seeing the start of one of the myriad soaps which litter our TV screens.
I think it was Coronation Street.
A voice-over before the program started warned " This program contains scenes which might upset some viewers".
What is this country coming to, when it is felt necessary to warn snowflakes that they might be upset by fictional scenes in a fictional story?
Has make-believe over-taken reality?
Do people actually think what they are seeing is either real, or realistic?
Do people realise there is a TV "OFF" button?
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Its to warn people to use the off button. You really are an "if it's not my way it's the wrong way / if I don't like it, it must be stupid" type of person.
Someone who has just been bereaved might not want to see someone dying on TV, this gives them fair warning.
What's this with "snowflakes". It's a derogatory term for liberals. Remember, liberalism gave the majority the vote, pensions, labour law reforms like holidays, the NHS etc.
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>> What's this with "snowflakes".
Its just the latest trendy phrase. Its time will come and pass.
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...I think they need to start such broadcasts with the following.....
" This program introduction contains warnings which might upset some viewers"........
:-(
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These warnings are merely an application of the well-known business survival practice known as CYA (Cover Your A***). Without them, I can see that myriad legal actions by viewers for psychological trauma could ensue as well as automatic howls from special groups, such as those representing the many types of gender we have now.
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Tee hee, the marketeers have certainly got this one right. Has the penny not dropped yet?
;-)
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Humph is right, issue a shock warning at the start to keep them hooked through the add breaks.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 7 Jul 18 at 11:13
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We seem to be creating so many things to be offended by that it's hardly surprising that more and more people are being offended.
We just need a general-purpose warning "People who are offended by this kind of thing may
find this the kind of thing that offends them".
(with apologies to Abraham Lincoln)
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Talking of being offended, who on here agrees with poor old Boris? - I must admit I do, although if I was in a position of power like him I may have chosen my words better, however, he always seems to "say it as it is" and you can't beat telling it straight in all walks of life, it leaves no grey area's. Personally, they can do as they like in their own homes, but out in public places their faces should be made to be recognisable, by law if necessary. In particularly it really scares the Wifey when she's on a train and there,s one sitting nearby with a back-pack or large-ish bag, but nobody cares about how she feels, and it's wrong!
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And you’ll HAVE to take your crash helmet off in the bank young man.
Pussy politicians blowing things up again!
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>> Pussy politicians blowing things up again!
t*** Boris being a t*** again.
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>> Talking of being offended, who on here agrees with poor old Boris?
pbs.twimg.com/media/CMtSkZbWcAE3MWy.jpg
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>> pbs.twimg.com/media/CMtSkZbWcAE3MWy.jpg
That's a bit like the stuff Britain First et al share on Facebook.
If only those who like and share had the brains to follow the idea through.....
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>> necessary. In particularly it really scares the Wifey when she's on a train and there,s
>> one sitting nearby with a back-pack or large-ish bag, but nobody cares about how she
>> feels, and it's wrong!
Wifey needs to get a little common sense. Not sure your average backpacking bomb strapped Jihadist is going to be quite so obvious, do you?
I also think wifey needs to have been around when the IRA were blowing us up, they didn't look like letterboxes now did they.
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Maybe more motorcyclists should claim that their helmets are part of their motorcycling faith when asked to remove them. But then there is no equality in the UK.
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>> Wifey needs to get a little common sense. Not sure your average backpacking bomb strapped
>> Jihadist is going to be quite so obvious, do you?
>>
>>
>> I also think wifey needs to have been around when the IRA were blowing us
>> up, they didn't look like letterboxes now did they.
Pretty much sums up my thought. Suicide bombers in this country have all been male. Some, judging by their mugshots, wore beards in the Islamic style. Perhaps some wore clothing per their religion/ethnicity. None wore a hijab.
If there is a female suicide bomber primed and ready to go it's her backpack that's the problem not her hijab.
Banning the hijab/burkah or whatever in public enhances safety of the public not one jot. It does though give the extremists a string to their bow about how Islam's followers are mistreated.
Boris's basic concept was to explain why he opposes bans and explain why Denmark was wrong to impose one. I (shock horror) agree with his basic proposition; I'd expect nothing less from a libertarian.
Wanting to draw attention to himself and curry favour with the membership (or if you really think so out of careless use of language) he seasoned the piece with reference to bank robbers and pillar boxes.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 10 Aug 18 at 13:29
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>> . Suicide bombers in this country have all been male.
>> Some, judging by their mugshots, wore beards in the Islamic style. Perhaps some wore clothing
>> per their religion/ethnicity. None wore a hijab.
>>
How would you tell it was a male in a hijab?
>> Boris's basic concept was to explain why he opposes bans and explain why Denmark was
>> wrong to impose one. I (shock horror) agree with his basic proposition; I'd expect nothing
>> less from a libertarian.
>>
That's why I respect your opinions Bromp, you at least, are happy to admit to the one part you agree with.
It's in stark contrast to some of the remainers on here who immediately condemn everything about Brexit/Trump/BoJo and never in a dying day would they admit they may have done any tiny little thing right.
>> Wanting to draw attention to himself and curry favour with the membership (or if you
>> really think so out of careless use of language) he seasoned the piece with reference
>> to bank robbers and pillar boxes.
>>
If more people said it as it is, we wouldn't be floundering around about any of this now.
Pat
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“It's in stark contrast to some of the remainers on here who immediately condemn everything about Brexit/Trump/BoJo and never in a dying day would they admit they may have done any tiny little thing rightâ€
One time in taushan wise man no talk right.
One tine in taushan foolo shiny bright.
Chinese pidgin proverb.
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Pedant alert.
That should be phoolo.
Pat
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>>who immediately condemn everything about Brexit/Trump/BoJo
Actually I thought that pretty much all the opinions about those three subjects were well informed and reasonably objective.
What do you think of Donald Trump and Boris Johnson?
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>>Burkas...
"But they might be hiding something under the burka" - meaning like a bomb or gun.
Me: "So might the bloke wearing the big heavy parka jacket".
Don't like them myself, but I don't have to wear one. If someone wants to wear one then that's their right.
I personally think the Hijab and Shayla can be quite fetching, again if the person wants to wear them then that is fine also.
I did mention on another thread that I am buying a new house. I have had to get signatures witnessed. Wearing a burka shouldn't be a problem if a friend is the witness as the friend will know the person, but a stranger, say a PA in a solicitors office may not and that would prove more difficult. I asked my solicitor as the Telegraph with Boris's comments was on the table in reception, what their policy would be. The solicitor said that they could not witness the signature of someone in a burka if they didn't know them. If they did know them then there would be no problem. They have had this issue and got a private room with female staff members to witness the signature where the burka wearer should have no problem removing the head covering so they could be identified.
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>> How would you tell it was a male in a hijab?
No tits dear.
>> It's in stark contrast to some of the remainers on here who immediately condemn everything
>> about Brexit/Trump/BoJo and never in a dying day would they admit they may have done
>> any tiny little thing right.
Trump and Bojo are both clowns. Nothing to do with Brexit. Think you'll find that most remainers now want us to get out. Our position in Europe is irrevocable poisoned.
The sooner we are out the more desperate for attention Bojo will get and the more insignificant he will become.
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>>No tits dear. <<
Most of the men I see have tits a lot of women would die for!
Pat
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>>Most of the men I see have tits a lot of women would die for!
To be fair they're not as bad as they were 15 years ago, but (long distance particularly) HGV drivers were some of the most impressively unfit men I've ever seen.
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>> How would you tell it was a male in a hijab?
Like a male in a frock, it'd be pretty obvious.
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See above Bromp, most men don't have your slim figure!
Pat
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>> See above Bromp, most men don't have your slim figure!
Big men in frocks look even more incongruous. Mind you the BBC's John Simpson did manage to disguise himself in an Afghan type Burqa but even a woman in one of those looks out of place in UK.
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>> >> How would you tell it was a male in a hijab?
>>
>> Like a male in a frock, it'd be pretty obvious.
>>
Didn't someone get out of the country dressed similarly using his sister's passport?
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>> Didn't someone get out of the country dressed similarly using his sister's passport?
Murder suspect c2006:
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1537414/Murder-suspect-fled-under-Muslim-veil.html
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The problem is not so much Boris's comments, more the language and jokey way he said it. His fallback position, no sorry his primary position, in any reasoned argument is to play the clown with what he thinks are humorous remarks and every argument is, to him, an opportunity to show how erudite he is. No sorry how erudite he thinks he is. Unfortunately he hasn't really grown up and the boyish foppishness that made his chums chuckle in the Eton mess and Bullingdon club wont cut it on the domestic and international stage where the adults play and there are real consequences.
He is clearly desperate, He assumed leaving the cabinet would cause May to get ousted and he could step into the breach like the Churchillian leader he thinks he is. It failed, so now he needs to keep his profile public.
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I don't think my views of Boris are much different to Zero's.
Hes got a slap from the Equalities Commission but they've no power to take action. Meanwhile Iain Dunkin Donuts has sprung to Boris's defence.
www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/10/former-tory-leader-iain-duncan-smith-defends-boris-johnson-over-burqa-comments
Unflattering picture of Boris - surely he can afford to get his snaggly teeth fixed.
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From that report...
“You may not agree with the tone or the jokes, but we have a thing called freedom of speech in this country,†Duncan Smith told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme. “And I don’t believe that just because somebody takes offence that means that therefore there has to be an inquiry which means that the individual can be shut down in terms of their ability to say what they believe.â€
Well, perhaps there is some truth in that. But it's a very difficult line to draw with the law.
Also, freedom of speech means you are not barred from expressing your opinion, not that you are immune from the consequences or impact of what you say.
I wonder though, if this is another of Johnson's little games. Many people are going to think "a***" and just move on. But those people were most unlikely to ever support him anyway.
But I wonder if there is a sector of the electorate who are sympathetic to such views and thus will believe that he was right to say it, and will see him as some sort of champion. Something like the approach which Trump has taken, and to an extent Farage before him.
I must say that these days I have little confidence in the likely success of Johnson's games, but he seemingly plays enough of them that sooner or later one is going to work out.
Boris Johnson, Champion of the ordinary people?? It doesn't seem likely, but maybe.
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>> But I wonder if there is a sector of the electorate who are sympathetic to
>> such views and thus will believe that he was right to say it, and will
>> see him as some sort of champion. Something like the approach which Trump has taken,
>> and to an extent Farage before him.
There's undoubtedly a section of the population as a whole who see it that way. The electorate he's appealing to now though are grassroots Tories.
Tory MPs' votes whittle leadership down to two candidates who then go head to head for party members' votes. The number of members with a vote is pretty small, without looking it up I guess more than 10k and less than 20k. Overwhelmingly older, relatively well off and white. If it'd gone to wire last time it's entirely possible that Andrea Leadsom would have beaten May.
Boris sees himself up against either JR-M or, more likely, the 'strong and steady' established parliamentarian (Hunt?) who goes to that run off and is playing his cards accordingly.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 10 Aug 18 at 21:21
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>>Boris sees himself ……………
Boris wants to ride to the rescue and save the world.
He thought the vote would be Remain and his plan was to ride in to save the rights of the leave voters and be their champion.
We wanted to quit the Government causing it to fall into disarray so that he could come riding in and save the day...
etc. etc.
He is after the grass roots, he just doesn't care what their usual political allegiance is.
But then, it's difficult to see anybody doing a worse job than May, despite some people saying that she was the best person for the job, she seems very clearly not to be.
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"Is this where we want ot (sic) go? "
I hope not; I prefer to see people's faces.
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Whilst one should respect everybody, one does not have to accommodate everybody.
As much as we should respect the culture of others, they should respect our culture.
And full face covering is a step too far in the pursuit of tolerance - in my opinion. Partly for the very same reasons that we do not allow someone wearing a full face helmet in a bank, and partly because it simply is not our culture.
It is a society, and that society sets and has set the rules, guidelines and behaviours it requires.
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Meh.
Nothing stops anyone walking about with a crash helmet on in 'society'.
Or wigs, sunglasses, comedy noses, disguises, insane make-up, full face tattoos etc etc
It isn't 'disrespecting' our culture to do so.
Banks have rules that are not the law and are because they've been robbed many times by dicks in crash helmets/scarves/stockings over the heads.
If they started being robbed by 'letter boxes' maybe they'd have rules on that.
Do you really care how others look?
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"Do you really care how others look?"
If, on a sunny day I am wearing sun-glasses, then I take them off if I am talking to someone. I consider it quite rude to hide one's face. I suppose that if I didn't want my wife to have social intercourse with others, then I might consider covering her up with a blanket.
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We all know what social intercourse can lead to. Maybe our society trusts our partners more than some others.
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>> We all know what social intercourse can lead to. Maybe our society trusts our partners
>> more than some others.
It's a bit lot more complicated then that.
But I suspect you know and are trolling again.
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>>If they started being robbed by 'letter boxes' maybe they'd have rules on that.
Probably, but then the race or religion card will be played and the banks wouldn't be able to stop them, even if they wanted to!
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The IRA put bombs in post boxes, so I guess that's where Boris got the analgy
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>> Probably, but then the race or religion card will be played and the banks wouldn't
>> be able to stop them, even if they wanted to!
Not sure pressuring for your rights to express your religion is really a 'card' to be played; it's a perfectly reasonable request.
If there were a spate of bank robbery by people in burkhas then somebody will have have to make a decision. Not too difficult to come up with a wording about respecting the wearers rights but reserving possibility that they may be asked to uncover for a female staff member?
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>>to uncover for a female staff member?
Problem is you will want them to uncover before they get to a secure area or put a member of staff at risk by asking.
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....Statistically, the number of bank robberies carried out by people in burkas/wearing the niqab will be negligible.
OTOH, those carried out by WASPs wearing little disguise will certainly be on the scale.
Who should we ban from banks?
(The argument is getting silly, IMO)
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>> Do you really care how others look?
No, don't give a damn. But it is neither worn as a fashion statement nor do I wish to stop it as a fashion statement. If it was a fashion statement it would not be disrespectful to our society in any way.
But it is not a fashion statement.
It is representative of a suppression, of a religious dominance and of a lack of choice which *is* against our culture and *should* be stopped.
The criminal advantage in being able to hide your face is a secondary point. Still a point, but secondary.
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>> It is representative of a suppression, of a religious dominance and of a lack of
>> choice which *is* against our culture and *should* be stopped.
Having read a little on the subject over the years and spoken at length to wearers of the hijab (but not the niqab/burkah) I think that statement is a 'bit of a stretch'. For some it is a statement of fashion and of their own, not their men's, religion and lifestyle.
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b******s.
I think that statement is spot on. And I am not relying on a little reading and speaking at length. I am relying on my own friends, and countries and cultures that I have lived in.
Of course you will find exceptions but your wish to justify it and excuse it doesn't make it better or more acceptable.
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>> Of course you will find exceptions but your wish to justify it and excuse it
>> doesn't make it better or more acceptable.
I've no doubt that in some countries/cultures particularly a theocracy like Iran or Saudi with religious police etc what you say is true. In the UK though it's rather more varied and wearing one by choice or because your father/husband/brothers or the Imam say you must are not mutually exclusive.
A ban would achieve nothing but a law that's impossible to enforce and/or more rocks for the extremists to throw at us.
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As you've said Bromp, working in sunny old Croydon I see EVERY type of culture (including head coverings) just by walking down the road to work (in theatres we have several surgeons who wear the hijab), on my way after work I often see the same lady wearing a burka with her two young kids and pushing a baby in a push-chair, by her accent she's a regular South Londoner (think they use the hospital as a shortcut).
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I had a similar incident at a large garden centre nearby.
As you enter there is a Bose display and sales area which you walk through on your way to the rest of the store.
Only went in for some ant powder :)
Walked in with my flip front helmet on with the visor in the open position. I was hailed by a male working behind the Bose counter who walked towards me. He asked me if I minded removing my helmet. I told him that as a matter of fact I did and it went downhill from there. :)
His rationale was that it was a matter of respect. If I went to someones house and they asked me to remove my shoes then I would.
After some debate he was told to stick the ant powder where the sun don't shine and I left.
Just feeling that way out that day.
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>> I had a similar incident at a large garden centre nearby.
There's a long and undistinguished history of men disguised in motorbike gear committing crimes from petty theft to armed robbery. As an ex-copper you must know that.
Pointing to a woman in a hijab, where there's no such history, is just 'whataboutery'.
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>>Pointing to a woman in a hijab, where there's no such history, is just 'whataboutery'.
Not a woman, but a bloke wearing a burka to commit a crime. BTW, I can't see any problems with hijabs.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1209006/Jewellers-robbery-Oxfordshire-burka-clad-man--150-000-designer-watches-stolen.html
and another
www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/robber-in-burqa-hits-croydon-takeaway/news-story/e851f5a53b8a610f43e77944aef4d27b
Last edited by: Driver on Sat 11 Aug 18 at 19:16
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Garden Centres being at the top of the blaggers favorite locations to turn over :)
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>> As you've said Bromp, working in sunny old Croydon I see EVERY type of culture
>> (including head coverings) just by walking down the road to work (in theatres we have
>> several surgeons who wear the hijab)
My memory may be playing tricks but recollection is that when I moved to Northampton thirty years ago even the taxi drivers and newsagents were white. It's changed since. I can't walk from the car park to the office without seeing plenty of women in hijabs and a few in the niqab. It's simply not an issue for me, why should it?.
Although I cannot remember specifics I have interviewed a few niqab wearers when I've been on the Citizens Advice drop-in. I just talk to them like anybody else.
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What on earth? - Driver
