Our grandson, now 14, is next year moving into the GCSE preparation stage of his schooling.
He's chosen the academic, (Maths/Science/IT) route, plus a choice from other obligatory subjects on which his school insists.
An option on other, free, choices, has photography as a possibility, but for that he needs a halfway decent camera.
Bearing in mind that this is not a core subject and that it may be a passing phase, it seems to me that a second hand camera from eBay might fit the bill.
Pricing, if we help him, is a factor and I wouldn't want to spend more than a couple of hundred pounds.
Is it possible to get a reasonable DSLR for that sort of money and if so are there makes to avoid and makes to look out for?
Our daughter, his mother, has a very, very, fancy Sony DSLR, mega-bucks cost camera with multiple lenses, filters etc, plus a tripod and various lighting units, but I don't want to involve her, while we are still deciding if it is a viable deal for us.
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If he does GCSE photography will a camera will be provided? If not I would expect a helpful suggestion will come from the course teacher anyway.
In the days of film, the student camera I remember was nearly always a Pentax K1000, a robust manual camera with electronic metering but a mechanical shutter. In other words, not a super expensive one. I'm sure than obtains now so you are probably looking at DSLRs costing up to £300 new with a basic lens kit, but there will as you say be many used available probably with extra lenses etc.
£200 will probably do it actually but I wouldn't leap into anything - indicate that you would like to help him if you can, should the need arise, and see what is suggested if he decides to do the course.
Re make, almost certainly a Nikon or Canon entry level DSLR will be recommended is my guess.
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>> Our daughter, his mother, has a very, very, fancy Sony DSLR, mega-bucks cost camera
I have the first Sony DSLR model after their take-over of Konica-Minolta (£500 new). A Sony Alpha 100.... pretty worthless second hand I think. They did adopt the KM mount and a few good lenses might still be worth something.
When my step-son did Photography as an A/AS level I thought what a pointless course (which it was) but managed to get a 35mm SLR still. A Konika as it happens. Bet you can't now.
But does he need a DSLR? Assuming you're going for a digital camera at all then you're in need of camera with program, manual, aperture, shutter modes etc. My Panasonic G2 will preview effects on the live view for example.
As Manatee says what used to be the cheap option for a film SLR has vanished. And do you need a DSLR?
I might be able to free up the film SLR.... bet it has not been used in the last 12-24 months.
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I have bought and sold quite a few used Canon DSLR cameras and their lenses over the years. An EOS400D from ten years ago will still take superb images and a used outfit like this would probably suit...
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Canon-Eos-400D-Camera/132479638197?hash=item1ed866dab5:g:uV8AAOSwSPBaZN4J
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BTW on Ebay always look for an outfit with an extra lens and kit etc to get best value. As well as the second lens and other items the one linked has the "battery grip" which is a useful extra.
Also look out for an outfit with original boxes and spare batteries where possible.
Major brand cameras are mostly very reliable but I would message any seller to confirm the camera is fully working and without faults or damage to any of the items in the listing. If you get a positive response to this and there were issues on receipt then you have the Ebay message trail to support getting it returned/refunded "not as described".
Last edited by: Fenlander on Sat 17 Feb 18 at 10:34
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The lad is a computer geek - anything less than digital would be derided!
He already has some sort of video camera thingy which he's used to create his own short edited- on-his-laptop videos.
He's currently saving hard for a top of the range gaming laptop, following in the paths of his step-father, who apart from being an army avionics technician, also is into gaming (Alienware laptop) and has built his own water-cooled, three monitor, desktop.
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>>He's chosen the academic, (Maths/Science/IT) route,
Thousands of years worth of humanities derided in a couple of words!
I suggest a trip to www.dpreview.com/forums where they will provide oodles of advice. I make no claims to knowing much about this subject, but am going to suggest that most cameras are more or less the same, the only difference being whether or not they have wifi, allowing you to connect directly to social media.
Remember something that is outdated and obsolete today was whizz bang three years ago...
Fenlanders point about - if buying on eBay - going for a package that includes everything is a good one. Play it well and you can break the parts of a set and make a profit.
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>>>Fenlanders point about - if buying on eBay - going for a package that includes everything is a good one. Play it well and you can break the parts of a set and make a profit.
Yes and even better buy from someone who hates Ebay/Gumtree so restricting themselves to a local audience with a card in the Post Office window or similar. Hence my first comment... "I have bought and sold quite a few used Canon DSLR cameras and their lenses over the years"
Totting for cameras!
In truth a well chosen new compact camera with Wi-Fi and all the tech can take stunning images but I'm assuming the nature of the course will expect him to go down the DSLR and interchangeable lens route.
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If you need interchangeable lenses then there are other camera formats that do this - I'm thinking of the micro four thirds cameras from Olympic and Panasonic and also the Sony NEX cameras. But the lenses for a Canon or Nikon mount will be cheaper because you have more choice.
If you don't need interchangeable lenses, then something like the Sony RX100 range is very good indeed. The older models ones are still available new so there's 5 price points. You can do all the manual control stuff, program mode, shutter/aperture priority mode etc.
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I remember when daughter wanted a proper camera there was a difference between camera that had the stabilisation in the lens as apposed to the body. We went for Canon in the end.
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>> If you need interchangeable lenses then there are other camera formats that do this -
For teaching, there may be a desire for standardisation. Exercises around field of view, depth of field, for example, become easier when everybody has the same format and lens options. Once that meant 35mm but full frame DSLRs are expensive so I suspect APS-C sensors would now be the 'standard' if there is one.
If the idea is to fund the boy's equipment for the course, then there really is no need to jump until the requirement or recommendation is known.
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>> >>He's chosen the academic, (Maths/Science/IT) route,
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>> Thousands of years worth of humanities derided in a couple of words!
>>
You read that wrongly; sorry if it was not clear.
The parentheses merely indicated which branch of academia he is pursuing!
His school runs two types of upper school, in preparation for "O" and "A" levels.
One, The College, concentrates on the more academic subjects: the other, The Faculty, caters for those whose talents lead in other directions.
Both are equally valued and both achieve excellent results in the appropriate examinations.
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Sorry, Roger. I suppose I read it the way I would have thought at the age of 15 - anybody can do humanities but you have to be academic to do sciences.
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Don't confuse bridge cameras with proper DSLRs...:-)
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>> Don't confuse bridge cameras with proper DSLRs...:-)
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But don't rule out mirrorless cameras. A DSLR but without a viewfinder and instead with a screen, so without the complicated and heavy mirror mechanism.
www.techradar.com/news/photography-video-capture/cameras/mirrorless-vs-dslr-1304910
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I have to have a viewfinder, I just can't get on with a screen, particularly in sunny conditions.
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You're not fourteen... sorry. Just saying, mind.
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A proper camera other than a compact that has no optical viewfinder will usually have an electronic one.
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I have two camera with electronic viewfinders. Very good they are too.
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The SLR is a compromise. The moving mirror and prism is a messy mechanical complication no longer required by digital cameras.
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Absolutely Zero.
Back when we had 35mm film cameras then the prism meant .... actually can't be bothered saying what I was typing.... nobody on here cares. But SLR cameras are not required. Good lenses and sensors are.
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Unless you actually want to physically see what the camera sees of course.
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The camera " sees" what the sensor sees, so that's what you want to see
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>> The camera " sees" what the sensor sees, so that's what you want to see
In a way you are better off with the EVF or screen view ("live view") because it will change as you change settings on the camera, so it is a preview of the shot. The mirror view doesn't stop down the lens. The mirror view therefore is usually brighter and clearer because the lens is at full aperture but that does mean you can't judge exposure from it. Mirror view also conserves battery power. I like a mirror view because it's much easier to check the focus when it's critical.
I'm guessing that the EVF previews on the latest cameras are much better than the live views on older DSLRs.
Older mirrorless cameras tend also to be slow at focusing because they only used contrast detection. That has changed and the latest use phase detection like DSLRs and are much faster.
This is getting off the point though - there are a lot of good used DSLR kits around, and the lens choice in practice is much wider.
But don't buy anything until somebody tells you what they expect him to provide.
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You can safely go for any Nikon/Canon entry level DSLR.
For DSLR, body of camera is less important than the lens. A photography student will be likely to need at least 3-4 lenses. One 18-55 standard, 1 for telephoto (or a travel lens like 18-200 mm) and a specialized lens like wide/macro etc.
Good lens cost lot more than camera itself!
Most important skill is to be there and see with the eyes. My wife takes better photos with her tatty mobile phone than I take with my DSLR. The angle, positioning etc. are more important than gears.
Photography is wonderful hobby. All the best.
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After a measurable lag. Not a problem for most types of photography but significant in things like sports photography.. Panning shots can be a problem too. You won’t see professional sports photographers using one.
On a practical note they really drain the battery fast.
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>> After a measurable lag. Not a problem for most types of photography but significant in
>> things like sports photography.. Panning shots can be a problem too. You won’t see professional
>> sports photographers using one.
Absolutely not the case, buffer storage means you can "click" on stuff thats already happened and captured. Most high end cameras can bracket either side of the click moment.
>> On a practical note they really drain the battery fast.
Battery technology has overcome that.
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I’m afraid it absolutely is the case. In most circumstances it is not a significant issue but in the areas I mentioned it still is . Ask a professional photographer. And they do use more power. Typically a camera with an electronic viewfinder will need twice the power of an optical system.
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Take spare batteries :-)
My Sony does not have a great battery endurance but they are small. But OEM ones are also cheap. And you can run it off USB charger if you want to too.
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Yes spare batteries are the answer but professional photographers don’t like the idea of the camera dying at a a critical moment!
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My Sony can run off the USB supplied power. Professionals will have batteries in grips too I guess. And more than one camera usually.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 21 Feb 18 at 21:06
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Absolutely. But you won’t find any sports or action photographers using cameraa with electronic viefinders. DSLRs are the tool of choice.
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>> Absolutely. But you won’t find any sports or action photographers using cameraa with electronic viefinders.
>> DSLRs are the tool of choice.
This internet thing will never catch on.
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When the technology reaches the level when it surpasses the current technology and gives them an edge professionals will use it. It isn’t quite there yet. It will be interesting to know what cameras are used by the Press at the Tokyo games.
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My very small Sony RX100, it can take up to 24 shots a second with fully continuous autofocus (it has phase detection) and in JPEG ultra fine mode it will take 150 shots before it has to slow down (it's got quite a buffer on the sensor).
The slow motion video capture mode is interesting. You can set it to start capturing before you press the button if you want... so basically it's recording all the time and when you press to record it saves off what's already in the buffer. It can do up to 1000FPS but resolution drops as you increase framerate. This is from the older model:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhnwt46y2wU
For a photography course it has all the manual controls too. It has an electronic pop up viewfinder too.
Lets see if I take it out and about more when next on holiday and on days out. I'd take the Panasonic Lumix G2 with me and then because photos on the smartphone are very good not bother getting it out.
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We had a Fujitsu bridge camera with screen or integral electronic viewfinder. Autofocus and exposure were very well integrated but shutter delay was sufficient to make action shots of, for example, Red Arrows quite difficult - anticipation needed. OTOH delay got one or two of kids jumping just right for the mid-air shot.
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>> Fujitsu bridge camera
You sure it wasn't a Fuji camera? Pretty sure Fujitsu has never made a bridge camera. Certainly not for the UK market.
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>> You sure it wasn't a Fuji camera? Pretty sure Fujitsu has never made a bridge
>> camera. Certainly not for the UK market.
You're quite right, it was a Fuji.
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>>On a practical note they really drain the battery fast.>>
As someone who has used twin and then single lens reflex film and digital cameras for some 57 years in both personal and professional sports and wedding photography, I've never regretted buying and using them.
I much prefer a proper viewfinder, make due allowance if necessary for mirror lag and, in the case of my Nikon D90 body and various lenses, find that I can take hundreds of shots before the battery is nearing the end of its charge.
I have shots taken with it of the Red Arrows at Southport Air Show and these include ones of the two aircraft which fly towards each other and "miss", by what seems a very, very close distance, at the point where they pass each other.
It was achieved by correctly anticipating that point and the required shutter release to allow for mirror lag at least three times out of four or five at the show.
But I can understand why some would prefer the mirrorless models as it would make such photography that much easier.
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But I can understand why some would prefer not to use daguerreotypes as it would make such photography that much easier.
Progress, Stuartli.
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>>Progress, Stuartli. >>
If we all thought the same way, life would be thoroughly boring........
I was once advised on this website to use the Nikon's screen to get a better idea of what the photographs would be like.
I prefer to make sure the exposure and shots are correct - also in bright sunshine it's b***** difficult to view the image on a screen....:-)
Last edited by: Stuartli on Sat 3 Mar 18 at 00:29
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DSLR cameras. - Manatee
