I've had the odd bit of stick on here for using supposedly erudite and obscure phrases. Examples include 'Stuck for Weft' and 'Pour Encourager les Autres'.
Discussion with two folks at work yesterday as to whereabouts of some missing documents. During conversation I referred to somebody's desk as being like the bottom of a parrots cage - a complete mess littered with papers, food wrappers and dead cups. Neither colleague had heard it before.
I thought it was commonplace?
What does the panel say and have you got similar examples?
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Well I'll go to the foot of our stairs.....
You'd better sort it out, otherwise you'll be in Dickie's meadow.
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While the parrot cage one is obvious (when explained perhaps), can't say it's one I've ever heard before. I like unusual words and phrases a lot though. I note them down as I come across them, and either just enjoy reading them again later, or sometimes they are actually useful.
Recent examples include a few Latin ones (lapsis exillit, sub rosa, Romanità , ante gratiam), "lazy lozel", "Almanach de gotha", and a whole bunch of quotations and sentences from whatever is being read at the time and catches my eye. Don't you just love "The unlidded eye of golden day", for example?
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Myself & friends often used to say “ I’ve a mouth like the bottom of a budgies cage†after a particularly hard night out on the lash
Those days are long gone. Moderation in most things these days for me.
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That made me look up "out on the lash", LL. Interesting.
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>> Myself & friends often used to say “ I’ve a mouth like the bottom of
>> a budgies cage†after a particularly hard night out on the lash
>> Those days are long gone. Moderation in most things these days for me.
>>
Waking up after a curry and a good few beers I "have a mouth like the wheel arch of a muck spreader" I think I maybe made it up 30 to 30 years ago though it maybe more widely used ...
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"Zoo Keeper's boot" was the expression I used
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"The unlidded
>> eye of golden day", for example?
>>
Love it,
Tennyson writes in ' Enoch Arden 'about
something insignificant.....
'As when a tiny cloudlet briefly dulls the fiery highway of the sun '
Ted
'
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>>'Pour Encourager les Autres'.
>>
>>
That was Voltaire on Admiral Byng's execution wasn't it?
In England they shoot an admiral sometimes, to encourage the others.
I can't say it's commonplace, but common knowledge, surely?
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Something irrelevant or of no consequence..........' 'Tis nought, as when a tiny cloudlet briefly dulls the fiery highway of the Sun '
Tennyson...from Enoch Arden.
Bound to annoy SWM when I use it !
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My mother had a phrase that always puzzled me, from childhood onwards. If there was a storm on the way, she would say something like, "It's getting dark over Will's mother's."
It seemed to mean "in the distance" or "over there".
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Very common in the Fen but it's Bill's mother's.
Ian, being a Londoner, was puzzled for quite a few years when he moved up here, and has only recently discovered where Bill lives!
Pat
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>> Very common in the Fen but it's Bill's mother's.
Black over Bill's Mothers was a phrase that came into my life about 34 years ago with Mrs B. Not from the Fen though, it came from Birmingham area or more specifically the Black Country. Her Grandfather, who was in the motor trade and lived in Harborne most of his life, was Bill and it took some time as a child before she'd disentangled the two.
Another of similar heritage is 'All Around the Wrekin' meaning to take a long way round whether travelling or, figuratively, when someone used a long winded explanation.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 21 Nov 17 at 17:15
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>> Very common in the Fen but it's Bill's mother's.
>>
All the time I've lived in the fens I've never heard that phrase.
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Got to say Pat, it’s Will’s Mother’s here and in the former colony of Middlesex.
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That's 'cos you're posh!
Pat
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Chap I used to work with was a local Fen man. Had the accent and he knows simply everyone. One of those can't walk down the street without someone stopping him for a chat people. Lived here all his life. Wouldn't surprise me if you knew him Pat!
Anyway, he used the phrase too but he said Will, not Bill. And I wouldn't have said he was posh! More salt of the earth, if that means anything.
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>pour encourager...
I'd never heard it before. I still find it pretentious.
The regional sayings though are fascinating.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 21 Nov 17 at 18:14
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>> I'd never heard it before. I still find it pretentious.
You find the reference to bottom of a parrot's cage pretentious?
Really?
I can sort of see pretentious if phrase is an obscure analogy or in Latin or other non English language. But reference to what might be torn up paper top dressed with waste food and bird carp pretentious?
You need a new dictionary!!
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 11 Sep 19 at 10:34
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??
It is a non-English language and is pretty obscure.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 21 Nov 17 at 18:23
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Whether it's pretentious or not is debateable but obscure? Thought the execution of Admiral Byng was a pretty well known story to anyone with a little knowledge of history. I seem to remember a film about it too.
I think Bromptonaut is talking parrots.
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>> Whether it's pretentious or not is debateable but obscure? Thought the execution of Admiral Byng
>> was a pretty well known story to anyone with a little knowledge of history. I
>> seem to remember a film about it too.
Maybe, but its not exactly a pivotal turning point in history, certainly not important enough to have us yacking in clouseau-esque accents.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 21 Nov 17 at 18:43
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>> ??
>>
>> It is a non-English language and is pretty obscure.
I'm pretty sure your 18:14 edit added 'pour encourager' etc. My post at 18:15 therefore assumed you referred to the parrots cage thing!!
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'Pour Encourager les Autres' is exceptionally pretentious and in no way analogous with typical UK regional sayings or phrases.
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Thas a load of ole squit.
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>> 'Pour Encourager les Autres' is exceptionally pretentious and in no way analogous with typical >> UK regional sayings or phrases.
>>
....used it all the time as a child...........
......along with "up't clough on't third nail"......
;-)
Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Tue 21 Nov 17 at 18:44
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It's a phrase I'm frankly surprised is being discussed as "not usual". Often used by me and mine, as appropriate (ie not pretentiously), and always has been. Same with the Mrs and her family.
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>> It's a phrase I'm frankly surprised is being discussed as "not usual". Often used by
>> me and mine, as appropriate (ie not pretentiously), and always has been.
N’importe quoi!
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Are all French phrases commonly used in English pretentious or are they only pretentious if you don't know what they mean?
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...I think their use demonstrates a certain "Je ne sais quoi"
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'...I think their use demonstrates a certain "Je ne sais quoi"'
Or perhaps it has a certain cachet.
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>> Whatever
>>
...shouldn't that be "bof".........
;-)
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Mange tout Rodney, mange tout...
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>> 'Pour Encourager les Autres' is exceptionally pretentious
As I've said before working with graduates from Oxbridge and top end red brick institutions one learned and became familiar with literary and historical references whether Byng's fate, Scylla and Charybdis or legal Latin.
Pretty sure though that 'Pour Encourager les Autres' was one my Father (BSc Colour Chemistry University of Leeds) used. He was though latterly, as a partner in a business importing dyes and chemicals for textile industry, fluent in French.
Maybe he came across Voltaire in that context :-P
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 21 Nov 17 at 19:16
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>>
>> Maybe he came across Voltaire in that context :-P
>>
...your father was alive in the 18th Century?????!!!!!!
;-)
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>> ...your father was alive in the 18th Century?????!!!!!!
>>
:-) :-)
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Very particular to my late father was commenting on almost anything he was being told or asked from behind his newspaper, with the single word response, "inevitably"
Usually in response to something my mother had recently decided was needed or required funding.
Decades later I find myself doing it.
Perhaps it was inevitable.
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I suppose it all depends on your circle as to whether it's obscure or not. I've heard of pour... but didn't know where it came from. Not really heard it spoken either from work, family or friends. If they do it might seem perfectly natural but if you not you'd look a right wally.
Never heard of the messy desk one brompt mentioned, it was pretty obvious what it meant but a new one on me.
Although there's plenty of unknown phrases and words on here, to me anyway.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Tue 21 Nov 17 at 19:36
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>>As I've said before working with graduates from Oxbridge
I've worked *for* Cambridge University, on Campus and in a senior role and you are sticking them on pedestal that they don't deserve.
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>> I've worked *for* Cambridge University, on Campus and in a senior role and you are
>> sticking them on pedestal that they don't deserve.
No pedestal, just understanding/speaking their language.
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"their language"? Sounds like feelings of inferiority to me.
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>> "their language"? Sounds like feelings of inferiority to me.
TBH I was pretty relaxed about it and found obscure(?) references of this type and, in a legal arena, use of legal Latin a curiosity and a bit of an education. The guys using this stuff were my seniors. Even if it bothered me or made me feel a bit inferior, and it didn't, it wasn't worth challenging; there were more important ways to use my limited opportunity to question their opinions/behaviour.
It was also not unknown for me to retaliate with odd bit of Yorkshire dialect/sayings!!
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 22 Nov 17 at 22:21
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>> No pedestal, just understanding/speaking their language.
>>
Many of the ones I know who use those sort of phrases fall into the same definition of "clever" as BJ.
The really good, clever, brain the size of a planet, types don't tend to use fancy phrases, one in particular has a pretty earthy turn of phrase with a fair amount of his Halifax origins in it
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>> I've worked *for* Cambridge University, on Campus and in a senior role and you are
>> sticking them on pedestal that they don't deserve.
I find it exceptionally unlikely that somebody who has worked at Cambridge in a senior role for the University of Cambridge (sic - not Cambridge University) would refer to the campus it does not have, nor would they get the University's name wrong.
A straight-forward Walter Mitty-ism. Nice try though.
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I don't see me putting much effort into what you think, Mappy.
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>> I don't see me putting much effort into what you think, Mappy.
And nor would I ask you to. But it seemed odd to me for a while that somebody who apparently had such a high-flying career should now find fulfilment in spending his time having shouting matches with a female lorry driver from the fens*. The current situation we have evidence for; the former looks flakier by the moment. :)
________________________
*No offence meant to Pat at all.
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Wed 22 Nov 17 at 15:26
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It seems odd to you? So what?
You can think my entire career is a fantasy for all I care, especially if it helps you feel better about yourself.
Are you sure you're not just a little bit bitter?
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>>Are you sure you're not just a little bit bitter?
I wasn't the one who had a post modded for swearing earlier today... ;)
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Snip. Mark please pack it in. Both of you take it to email if you want to continue arguing
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 22 Nov 17 at 19:35
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Is this the real life? Is it just fantasy?
You know that has the makings of a decent song lyric.
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>>*No offence meant to Pat at all.<<
None taken!
Pat
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>> I find it exceptionally unlikely that somebody who has worked at Cambridge in a senior
>> role for the University of Cambridge (sic - not Cambridge University) would refer to the
>> campus it does not have, nor would they get the University's name wrong.
You a Cambridge man Mapmaker? If so then TBH I think you're a bit up yourself here. I'm not sure somebody who's done work with the place would necessarily use 'correct' title or in an anecdotal example like this correctly relate Colleges and University of as opposed to Cambridge Uni.
And term 'Campus', whatever its 'true' meaning is pretty much a standard term for a single site,or one of a number of split sites, used by a University.
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Can't say as I remember "campus" being used, to be honest. It might have been in circles I wasn't privy to I suppose but it wasn't common parlance.
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To be fair, they are pretty much all over the Cambridge University versus University of Cambridge thing, they were forever correcting me on that one.
As to campus, don't remember if they used it or not, to be honest. But I have.
But then, I am not an Oxbridge person, I just worked there.
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Me too. Spent 20 years there and still half the the time I'd sign my emails "Cambridge University" if I wasn't thinking about it.
Actually, I've remembered that visitors or prospectives would often say things like "do all the students live on campus?", and amazingly we knew what they were asking.
So it wasn't completely unknown after all.
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I have a friend who went to Oxford -And she does forget to mention it was a Polytechnic.
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My niece has had a standing joke since her teens about her father, my b-i-l, that he went to Cambridge and drove a BMW in his youth....
Then adds He got a degree from Cambridge Poly and had a bubble car
He did get a PhD from Strathclyde afterwards.
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> My niece has had a standing joke...
I guess you had to be there.
;-)
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>>Spent 20 years there
Lots longer than me. I was there less than 2 years I think, just for a specific thing. I very rarely had contact with students, and then only incidentally.
I rather admire the organisation, to be honest. Though the business side is somewhat of an eye-opener. Lovely city to work in.
Sadly No. 1 daughter has already stated that she is not interested in studying there. [irrespective of whether or not they would have ultimately invited her].
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It's changing very fast now. For eighteen of my twenty, you could safely say "well, we've done it this way for six hundred years now, so perhaps we could postpone that decision a while yet, bless you".
In the last couple of years it's finally woken up to the seventeenth century, and I would think the eighteenth will turn up by Christmas.
Amazing place to work though. I was very lucky. Really did have the croquet lawn outside my office, and all that stuff.
Luckily, I managed to avoid students most of the time too. I was IT so didn't interact with surface dwellers much.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Thu 23 Nov 17 at 13:28
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>>Amazing place to work though
Very much so. I enjoyed it a lot, but much longer and my business head would have exploded. We weren't a good business fit.
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>> 'Pour Encourager les Autres' is exceptionally pretentious and in no way analogous with typical UK
>> regional sayings or phrases.
>>
It surely ranks with Cherchez la femme, plus ca change, a la carte, au contraire, je ne sais quoi, etc. There are hundreds of French expressions used in English, many of them only used in English and unheard of in France.
RSVP or cul de sac for example.
Few of them are exactly everyday expressions by most people, but the majority I'd have said have a nodding familiarity.
Funnily enough the most pretentious of them all is known by everybody- Pretentious, moi?
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>> It surely ranks with Cherchez la femme, plus ca change, a la carte, au contraire,
>> je ne sais quoi, etc. There are hundreds of French expressions used in English, many
>> of them only used in English and unheard of in France.
>> RSVP or cul de sac for example.
>>
>> Few of them are exactly everyday expressions by most people, but the majority I'd have
>> said have a nodding familiarity.
Don't forget one of Derek Trotter's favourites - bonne la douche.
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As exemplified by Miss Piggy.
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> I can't say it's commonplace, but common knowledge, surely?
>>
I don't think it is no. If I asked 100 people at work I'd be surprised if more than a couple knew the phrase and it's origins.
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Most people probably know quite a few quotes by Voltaire albeit in English tranlation and are probably unaware of their origin.
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I suspect not, but who knows.
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Surely most people have at least come across:
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
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As mentioned before I work in an office full of kids. I find myself explaining what words like "avail" (recent example). I used the phrase "Happy as a Sandboy" one day. The English Lit. graduate had never heard of it. One of my colleagues was a French graduate, she was familiar with 'Pour Encourager les Autres'. - She lived in France for a while as well. I always took it as a phrase from the second war to be honest.
One of them spelt "respite" as "rest bight" the other day...
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>> As mentioned before I work in an office full of kids.
I feel a bit the same Rob although we're actually (in the paid job) a spread from my 58 to 18. I get on quite well with all of them but as we're both late finishers often fall into conversation with a lass of 27 who 'supervises' the rest of us. English Grad (Uni of Reading) who didn't get a reference to Wilde!! but she's very much on same page as me and others on politics and campaigns. Always has BBC news ticker running so quickly picked up when Tim Farron resigned as Lib Dem leader.
She read out his statement to effect that 'I couldn't lead party in way which I would wish to do' in tone exactly like EdwardVIII's abdication speech. I had to explain in single syllables why I thought it funny. Edward VIII might as well have been William the Conqueror!!
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They say I'm "sepia" the irony being that they thought it's a filter on Instagram (honestly) not a "filter" on 100 year old photos...
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Bet no-ones heard this one.
My FiL, on seeing a nipper with a squint, used to comment ' That child skens like a basket of whelks !'
Don't ask me !
Last edited by: Ted on Tue 21 Nov 17 at 23:02
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If I ever asked my grandma what was for tea, she would say "shim shams for a lame duckling."
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...certainly heard by me as "shim shams for whim whams and lame ducks"........
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Thanks Brompton. I had never heard that one before, curiously.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=re6G1hTlrEo
But "pour encourager" surely every educated Englishman knows. I've asked the colleagues sitting near me (not Oxbridge educated) and they know it.
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>>
>> One of them spelt "respite" as "rest bight" the other day...
>>
Probably taught to mispronounce it. It's "spit" not "spite".
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>> Probably taught to mispronounce it. It's "spit" not "spite".
I have never heard anyone use the term "Res pit Care" . Pronunciation is determined by its universal usage, so its RespitE
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 22 Nov 17 at 10:28
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It's one of those words for which the pronunciation is changing. I suppose it is a relatively unusual word and one of the more common uses is as you say in the phrase respite care. Because of its spelling those unfamiliar with the word tend to pronounce it to rhyme with kite.
A few more years and it will become the "correct" pronunciation. Meanwhile it will enrage the traditionalists.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Wed 22 Nov 17 at 09:17
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> I have never heard anyone use the term "Res pit Care" . Pronunciation is determined
>> by its universal usage, so its RespitE
>>
That's what I'd say, HMS Warspit(e) ?
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Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 11 Sep 19 at 10:35
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When French colleagues criticised me for (apparently, my part in) the burning of Joan of Arc, which they did frequently, I would wind them up tight by shrugging them off with "Ah, oui, on brule une vierge de temps en temp, pour encourager les autres". The result was very satisfying, masterpieces of speechless rage.
(My rant for the day, TV persons who use foreign words without bothering to find out the correct pronunciations. I believe the BBC had such a service for them at one time.)
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Nobody ever said harass, harassing, harassment, with the stress on the second syllable, until Michael Crawford gave it to Frank Spencer as a comic pronunciation.
I can't take it seriously.
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Teenagers overheard recently, "Like what is he even like, like?" :-(
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A colleague's mother used to say "Hitler's dead".
This is said in response to something which is patently obvious.
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To a child with a phlegmy cold.
" Cough it up in Mother's hand"
Euk!
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My Grandfather always used to tell me he would "Cobble yer lugs if you do that again" and my Grandmother always spoke in the style of "Yoda", ("You'll do what I tells you, when I tells you says I" ) which sounded funny when your were a kid!
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Found a couple via a google
Do a Devon Loch
Devon Loch was a racehorse that collapsed just short of the winning line of the 1956 Grand National race in the UK. If someone does a Devon Loch, they suddenly fail when everybody expects them to succeed or simply crumble at the very last minute when they were almost winning.
Enough to cobble dogs with
This incredulous phrase is used to refer to a surplus of anything. The humour in the image contained in the phrase becomes apparent when you consider that a cobbler repairs shoes. If a cobbler has enough leather to cobble an animal that has four feet, then that cobbler definitely has a surplus.
Hairy at the heel
This disparaging phrase was originally used by the British upper-crust to refer to someone who is ill-bred, dangerous or untrustworthy. The image of a hairy heel is indeed striking and funny.
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>>Found a couple via a google
...well, if we're going to resort to that.....
In looking up a few for origins, I found this.......
.....it made I laugh....
One of my favourite old person sayings is "a bit of how's your father", it makes no sense but you know what they are talking about, and you know it's something rude.
I found some quite dull and slightly unconvincing explanations, but I also found this one, less dull but more unconvincing:
According to Michael Kelly, a writer and historian in New Zealand, "the origin of the expression 'how's your father' can be traced back to Victorian times. In those days any man with a daughter was so protective of her virtue that he would take extraordinary measures to safeguard it. Unmarried girls would be kept within the bosom of their family as much as possible, chaperoned on excursions, and on those occasions when they were let out of bounds for social events, their fathers would often accompany them discreetly by hiding underneath their voluminous skirts ready to pounce on any man who transgressed the bounds of propriety.
However, a father with more than one daughter couldn't be everywhere at once. Thus, a suitor having a discreet vis-a-vis with his beloved would cautiously ascertain her father's whereabouts by asking, 'And how is your father?' If her father was currently under her skirts, she would glance downwards and reply, 'My father is very well, thank you, and as alert and vigorous as ever, and maintains his interest in rusty castrating implements.' Her beau would then say, 'I have always had the greatest respect for your father, and of course for you. Let us hold hands and think about the Queen for a while.' If, on the other hand, her father was elsewhere, she would reply, 'The mad old ******* is currently stationed between my sister Constance's thighs. Let us go into the garden and rut like stoats.'
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My mother was born and brought up in a wild part of Leicestershire - notably Whitwick (City of Dan) where there were reckoned to be more pubs than people. She used expressions that I haven't heard anywhere else, and I wish that I could remember more of them.
'As leve' - meaning 'rather' in e.g. 'he'd rather kick you than look at you' would be "e'd as leve kick yer as look at yer". The only place that I've seen this written is in Chaucer's 'Nun's Priest's Tale'.
And, she would use the word 'ormin' to mean clumsy or uncoordinated e.g. 'He's a big, clumsy youth' would be "'e's an ormin gret bugga"
Last edited by: Haywain on Wed 22 Nov 17 at 14:27
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An alternative spelling of lief presumably.
I have used it myself, but then I am considered eccentric.
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"An alternative spelling of lief presumably."
Just looked up 'lief', and what you say is very probably correct, meaning 'as happily, as gladly'.
Pat, we used to call them okeys as well; the okey man, the okey van etc.
San fairy Ann is 'ca ne fait rien' (there should probably be an accent or two in there)
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And of course we locals pronounce it Wittick! I remember the first time I said Coleorton and pronounced it Colly Orton;)
Pat
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>>
>> Just looked up 'lief', and what you say is very probably correct, meaning 'as happily,
>> as gladly'.
>>
I've heard that, even used it once, perhaps. It's a deliberate archaicism, (Shakespeare?) used for humour.
Another good one, not heard for years (yonks, anyone ?) is "Fensi", meaning the opposite of "Bagsi".
"Bags I go first" is pretty standard but not that common, but "Fains I" meaning not on your life, count me out, is archaic if not obsolete.
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Reminds me of : "Liege & Lief is the fourth album by the English folk rock band Fairport Convention"
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FC is on my "must see them once live before it's too late" list. I usually either miss seeing list members at all because the group splits, or I do see them but when all the originals have disappeared and it's virtually a tribute band anyway.
I don't suppose I'll get to do it though in reality. Combination of "HOW far away? Blimey!" and "HOW much? Blimey!" usually does it for me.
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Last Concert I went to was the Pink Floyd P. U. L. S. E at Earls Court in 1994.
Most of the concerts I went to featured PF, starting with Parliament Hill Fields and Hyde park in the late sixties.
I went to a concert at the Oval too about that time, but I honestly can't remember much about it, possibly due to the lysergic acid. I think maybe Wishbone Ash were there, but then again maybe they weren't.
8-)
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My Leicestershire roots still have me saying 'There's the Okey man' when I hear the Ice cream van going round the village!
San fairy Ann, meaning never mind, is another I use that no-one around here seems to understand.
Pat
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San Fairy Ann originated in WW1 I believe. A corruption of a French phrase.
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The phrase is "ça ne fait rien" - "it doesn't matter."
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My Grandmother used it.The phrase got altered, I suspect by the British Army, to "Sweet F*** All"
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" He drew her on like a well oiled sea boot!"
NSFW (or PC feminists)
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I wouldn't like to teach your grandmother how to suck eggs......
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>> San Fairy Ann originated in WW1 I believe. A corruption of a French phrase.
I think there were quite a lot of those. My (Great) Uncle Billy, a relative by his marriage to my maternal grandmother's sister, who'd been at Ypres and other places used a fair number of them.
Bits from songs like Mademoiselle d'Armentiers were another rich seam.
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>> My Leicestershire roots
I spent a lot of childhood near Melton Mowbray, and an expression I've never heard since is "I couldn't be fished", meaning I'm not bothered.
It might have been local, or family, or simply invented.
My mother often said "Slosh up!" meaning move along a bit please and give the rest of us more room, but whenever I've tried it no one understands what I'm talking about.
Or "zugs" for legs.
I think a lot of words and expressions are invented in childhood and sometimes pass into family use.
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Another one me ole mum used to use "In and out like a fart in a colander"
:-D
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>> Another one me ole mum used to use "In and out like a fart in
>> a colander"
As much use as a fart in a colander was one of Mrs B's late father's favourites. He had quite a collection of such phrases, mostly via his Father who was a navvy on the Southern Railway.
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'Fart in a Colander' is the title of Roy Hudds autobiography which is well worth a read if you are interested in the music hall and variety era.
One phrase my mother used often was ' there's more than one way to skin a cat'...
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>>'Fart in a Colander' is the title of Roy Hudds autobiography
Howl amazing is that! .. I used to enjoy The News Huddlines, back in the day.
Another one my ole mum used was "Billy born drunk", but I'm not referring to anyone on this forum.
:-)
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My Mum used to say 'Red hat, no draws'!
Pat
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You can’t educate Pork. Often used here in Devon.
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>> You can’t educate Pork. Often used here in Devon.
I've heard that one. Not sure what it means but it sounds like an insult! Nothing to do with coppers?
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"To be pig-headed means to be stubborn and possibly stupid, so it's saying that you can't educate someone who is not going to listen"
~answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080710114039AALkLl0
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>> "To be pig-headed means to be stubborn and possibly stupid, so it's saying that you
>> can't educate someone who is not going to listen"
>>
>> ~answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080710114039AALkLl0
Makes more sense now.
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>> My Mum used to say 'Red hat, no draws'!
>> Pat
>>
I think the Glasgow equivalent was "Fur coat and nae knickers"
Tries to look posh but no money really
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Fur coat and no knickers is my recognised phrase. Mind you lived and worked in so many places Gawd knows where it came from.
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Soft as a boiled owl (clueless)
Spitting feathers (overcome with rage)
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>> Spitting feathers (overcome with rage)
>>
>>
>>
Growing up that always meant someone was thirsty. Say after a long journey in the car, tea? Yes please I'm spitting feathers.
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"Growing up that always meant someone was thirsty. Say after a long journey in the car, tea? Yes please I'm spitting feathers."
That is my understanding also.
'Spitting blood' means 'overcome with rage/fury/frustration.'
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I don't remember spitting feathers until after I started work but there it was definitely about being angry; 'Ollie's spitting feathers'. Used by a middle manager about views of Oliver who was the Head of Unit in relation to some issue or another for which I, as a junior operative, held at least partial responsibility.
When I spoke to Ollie himself he was actually quite relaxed....
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I'm surprised at that brompt seen as your from the west riding. It was pretty common. Mind you many parts had their own is sayings and accents.
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>> "Growing up that always meant someone was thirsty. Say after a long journey in the
>> car, tea? Yes please I'm spitting feathers."
>>
>> That is my understanding also.
Mine, too.
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Like rocking horse poo. meaning 'as rare as'
used by a yorkshire born office co-worker.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 25 Nov 17 at 21:39
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"Were you born in a field?"
Frequently use by my father if you didn't close the room door
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Rather like "Put the wood in the hole!"?
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>> Rather like "Put the wood in the hole!"?
In Yorkshire (or Lancashire) it's more 'Put wood in int 'oil'
'Were you born in a barn' was another variant.
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If hung-over, "Mouth like the bottom of a baby's pram, all p--- and broken biscuits".
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I'd never heard the phrase "San Fairy Ann" until I read it on here, but the very next day it popped up at 5 minutes into this moving documentary:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vARjm3yHKzY
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I'd heard it a lot, my Grandfather used to say it, I never really wondered what it actually meant though - he had lots of strange sayings.
Now I've followed the link, I quite like it. I may even start using it, that'll screw up the Chileans.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 25 Nov 17 at 18:32
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>> " that'll screw up the Chileans"
>>
That has the ring of authenticity as a phrase itself. A bit like "tell that to the marines".
Let's start using it and see how long before comes back.
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New one today:
she was not worth powder or shot
Meaning she had no assets whatsoever and no prospect of any.
Turned up in a court judgement that was highlighted for us at work concerning futile applications for bankruptcy to enforce Council Tax Debt:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2018/2015.html
End of para 42 to save anyone wading through the lot.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 24 Aug 18 at 16:57
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Conventionally "powder and shot" as one is no good without the other.
I'm surprised you got as far as para 42!
Last edited by: Manatee on Fri 24 Aug 18 at 17:16
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Well I'll go to the foot of our stairs.
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I've just looked it up (indeed, it is and not or).
A 1757 example was in a military setting, but not literally so. In 1838 it meant that a contract of sale was not worth taking action over.
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-Rather than a parrot's cage, a hangover sufferer might say, "I've got a mouth like the bottom of a baby's pram - all pee and broken biscuits".
-To wind up a Frenchman who is winding you up for burning Joan of Arc (as I often was) answer, with a dismissive shrug, "Ah oui, chez nous, on brûle une vierge de temps en temps, pour encourager les autres".
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Ooops, already said most of that, way back.
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Something yesterday reminded me of an expression of my Father's; More x than the Parson preached about'. X could be anything that was present in quantity at time.
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My current work involves providing support to those claiming Universal Credit.
One of them this week was a lass in low paid work expecting a baby in March. Discussion inevitably covered when she might stop work and move to Maternity Pay - obviously that affects her UC. She explained she intended to carry as late as possible - beyond end of February. My response of 'going to the wire then?' needed to be explained.
Probably generational and my first thought was war - either in the trenches or PoW camps. Apparently though it's to do with racing:
www.gingersoftware.com/content/phrases/down-to-the-wire/#.XY8lGEZKiUk
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 28 Sep 19 at 10:18
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>> My current work involves providing support to those claiming Universal Credit.
In same context I was dealing yesterday with somebody laid off because of the Covid pandemic.
She asked me why she'd been advised to claim both Universal Credit and (New Style) Job Seekers Allowance when it made no difference to the money.
I had to explain my response's use of the phrase 'belt and braces'.
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Dominic Raab has been taking some stick on social media for using the phrases 'A Stitch in Time Saves Nine' - apparently it's not understood by those under 40.
Doing an exploration of circumstances with a caller this week I asked about his wife's wages. His reply referenced her 'pick up' of about £1200/month.
Context made it reasonably evident that he meant 'take home' but I had to ask him to clarify.
Maybe a Black Country expression.
Also had my second recent account of somebody being 'furlonged' from work.
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>> Also had my second recent account of somebody being 'furlonged' from work.
That made me smile. That was standard for my Grandfather. He was always making up words that sounded right to him.
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My wife does that, she's always forgetting my name and just uses "Idle ****" instead.
;-)
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I think it's "about", not "to".
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 25 Sep 20 at 16:18
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>> Also had my second recent account of somebody being 'furlonged' from work.
>>
>> That made me smile. That was standard for my Grandfather. He was always making up
>> words that sounded right to him.
I think furlonged probably counts as a malapropism. As is the occasional reference to 'Anglican Water' in place of Anglian Water.
Many years ago I worked with a colleague whose Mother in Law had 'the Senile Dimension'.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 25 Sep 20 at 16:44
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>> Many years ago I worked with a colleague whose Mother in Law had 'the Senile
>> Dimension'.
An apt and perfectly descriptive metaphor
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Chatting with a colleague yesterday who I'd not seen for a while and subject of mangled words came up.
She's funded to do casework with folks who have cancer. How many men have prostrate cancer?
She'd also had somebody talk about getting a Power of Eternity to deal with a relatives affairs.
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My partner has always had a creative approach to the English language. These are some of my favourites:
I don't know how to give someone mouth to mouth recitation.
They’re busy being on strike in France at the moment.
Virgin have flattened all their aircraft.
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The fun of having a foreign wife.
'I'm staring at the shop windows'
'Will you please splash the toilet'
I never correct her.
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Would that be an enduring power of eternity?
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>>
>> Also had my second recent account of somebody being 'furlonged' from work.
>>
>>
I’ve seen that a few times in typed form, but always assumed the interference of autocorrect on some mangled spelling. Perhaps not!
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>> I’ve seen that a few times in typed form, but always assumed the interference of
>> autocorrect on some mangled spelling. Perhaps not!
Both occasions were on the 'phone rather than webchat. Given furlough is used in American English I'd expect most forms of autocorrect to be OK. I get thoroughly hacked off with work systems that want to 'authorize' and similar.
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>>Authorize
The back office system we use at work is "made in England" but uses American English. Luckily it uses dictionaries so we have created a British English dictionary for the package (not me I might add).
Last edited by: zippy on Fri 25 Sep 20 at 22:45
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While looking up something else today I came across a reference to the Toc H movement:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toc_H
The expression 'dim as a toc h lamp' was one used by my Father referring to people not over endowed with intelligence.
Not heard it in many years.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 26 Sep 20 at 18:11
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I had many happy times at the Toc H club I was a member of when I was young. Very happy days.
But I did not hear of the Lamp comment until many years later.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 26 Sep 20 at 18:52
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>> I had many happy times at the Toc H club I was a member of
>> when I was young. Very happy days.
>>
...ditto...
I wonder how widespread the "youth" branch was. I wasn't aware of many other locations, and the branch I attended (though with a thriving young person's section) was largely an older population.
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The expression 'dim as a toc h lamp' was one used by my Father referring
>> to people not over endowed with intelligence.
>>
>> Not heard it in many years.
>>
What's a toc h lamp?
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>> What's a toc h lamp?
Looks like a really big lamp with a genie in it used as a logo or sign for the TOC H movement.
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>>
>> >> What's a toc h lamp?
>>
>> Looks like a really big lamp with a genie in it used as a logo
>> or sign for the TOC H movement.
>>
Thanks.
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Toc H was an organisation created by an Army Chaplin in WW1 to provide material and emotional support to troops coming out of the front line. The name Toc H is an abbreviation for Talbot House (I've actually sung there) - Toc being the Royal Artillery phonetic for the letter "T". The lamp was found or liberated to illuminate the chapel on the upper floor of Talbot House. The organization was much loved by the troops and many spent their last night there before heading to the Front.
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The lamp was found or liberated to illuminate the
>> chapel on the upper floor of Talbot House.
Right thanks.
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I like: "Not the reddist beetroot in the borscht".
Clare in the community, R4.
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My father was fond of the phrase “Not been such a time since old Leather-a*** died”. Used when something notable occurred. Not heard it for years. East End origins I suspect.
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Another malapropism I think:
Somebody from Universal Credit today told me she needed my client's complicit consent to me remaining on the line while their claim was processed. Thought first time it might be a slip of the tongue but exactly the same when her husband's claim was processed.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 16 Feb 21 at 12:50
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>>Complicit / Universal Credit
I think that's a deliberate nasty phrase in these circumstances suggesting wrong doing - is it wrong to help be part of CA offering help, is it wrong to ask for help from CA or or is it wrong to be a claimant:
From the Cambridge Dictionary: "involved in or knowing about a crime or some activity that is wrong"
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>> I think that's a deliberate nasty phrase in these circumstances suggesting wrong doing - is
>> it wrong to help be part of CA offering help, is it wrong to ask
>> for help from CA or or is it wrong to be a claimant:
I genuinely think it was a 'malapropism'. We're funded by the DWP to provide this service but as I'm hearing the answers to their security questions and their bank details, as well as details of their health (albeit that's already explored) it's not unreasonable for UC staff to check. There have also been issues with third parties 'helping' claimants with a view to fraud, usually to gain access to an advance of benefit'. As a consequence DWP staff are (rightly) cautious as to extra people in what would normally be a two way call.
My work is normally done on basis of using only my forename but when starting an assisted claim like this I always give the UC agent my full name, job title and office location before joining the claimant into the call.
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Presumably they are trying to say that the person should give involved consent, or something similar. Rather than just a general consent to someone doing something on their behalf in which they may not be personally involved.
I doubt a conspiracy.
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>> Presumably they are trying to say that the person should give involved consent, or something
>> similar. Rather than just a general consent to someone doing something on their behalf in
>> which they may not be personally involved.
The word intended was almost certainly explicit. We retain basic data about people on the basis of having a legitimate interest. However sensitive information like Health, Ethnicity or sexuality needs explicit consent.
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A word this time rather than a phrase; slub.
Bought half a dozen T-shirts from the menswear section in Sainsbury's. Two are dark colours and just marked 100% cotton. The others in more pastel shades are described as slubs.
Looked the word up. It has various meanings to do with lumps in thread or cloth and also a woven cloth of uneven appearance. Not apparent under the lights in the store but held up to daylight the colours have a relatively even paler streak giving them an uneven experience.
I suspect my Father, professionally a colour chemist, would have said it looked like a dye fault. His habit when buying clothes was often to go over to the shop window to see if things looked different in daylight or between different types of artificial light.
I could have been disappointed and taken them back but they'll do, they'll spend most of their lives outwith the summer worn under a long sleeve anyway.
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Were you to visit Huddersfield, you could have a pint in the Slubbers Arms.
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After seeing the statue of Harold Wilson when you get off t’train in Hudders. I used to have a season ticket for H Town back in the 70’s.
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>> Were you to visit Huddersfield, you could have a pint in the Slubbers Arms.
>>
Were you to visit Huddersfield, you could have had a pint in the Slubbers Arms. Closed since lockdown apparently. I've had a few nourishing pints in the Slubbers when it was a Tim Taylors house, with the GF, later to become Mrs H.
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>Were you to visit Huddersfield,..
What was the name of that bar/club in Huddersfield owned by a couple of gay guys where one of the guys would stand on the bar at the end of the evening and do some brilliant Shirley Bassey impressions.
Was it The Amsterdam?
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>>Was it The Amsterdam?
You know more than I do about the goings-on there, but yes it was!
The other well known night life venue in those days was Johnny's in the Beast Market.
www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/legendary-huddersfield-nightclub-johnnys-opened-8315633
The Amsterdam
jerrychicken.wordpress.com/2011/04/11/the-amsterdam-bar/
which I believe was once referred to by the local police super as a "cesspit of filth"!
I lived in Brighouse in those days, we were a bit stand-offish, and we had our own fleshpots. Well, pubs.
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>You know more than I do about the goings-on there, but yes it was!
That article is a good find Manatee. I'll show it to Mrs K.
Cesspit of filth? Pah!
The Mrs-K-to-be and I went a few times even though it was about an hour's drive away and it meant no alcohol for me. Absolutely brilliant night out.
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>> Cesspit of filth? Pah!
>>
>> The Mrs-K-to-be and I went a few times even though it was about an hour's
>> drive away and it meant no alcohol for me. Absolutely brilliant night out.
I think the super was probably more in tune with Mrs Whitehouse and any hint of bawdiness set him off.
My social life wasn't really Huddersfield-centric in those days despite living about 4 miles away and working there for a couple of years.
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Phrases You'd Not Heard Before - Stuartli
