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Recommendations required for a new Combi-boiler (Gas) that is reliable and can run 7 radiators Please!
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Last edited by: sherlock47 on Mon 30 Oct 17 at 15:24
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I was going to say W-B too...
No of radiators is irrelevant as HW demand will far outstrip CH demand. Go for the biggest one you can to keep the HW rate up in the winter - if it's a replacement for an existing combi, then probably limited by the gas pipe size. If it's currently not a combi set up then think long and hard about doing something else (thermal store or HP cylinder).
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www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/products/boilers/directory
I fully endorse RW view. Think long and hard about going to a combi if you currently do not have one.
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I swore by WB at one time. Reliability has become questionable of late. We're looking to replace our oil boiler now and I spoke to the heating engineer that serviced the one we had at the other house. He said that Grant was by far the best in his experience.
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Just checked the Which site - It's WB all the way there..
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Grant Vortex oil broiler here too - 10 years old now and still going strong.
Engine ear reckons a lot of the 'innards' are Italian.
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For oil, I would definitely go for Grant.
For gas either W-B or Vaillant. Both very good boilers.
Bear in mind that any combi is on borrowed time after about 8 years but they're not too expensive these days and the big cost is the initial installation where new pipes often have to be put in and new regs may mean you can't put the new boiler where the old one was. We had a new one not long ago and it was basically a quick job of unbolting the old one, power flushing through (we took the opportunity to replace a couple of rads and install new thermo valves) and putting in the new as all the alterations had been done before.
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I have a Baxi combi fitted in 2009, never given any trouble and cheap to run.
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Another vote for Worcester Bosch.
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> Think long and hard about going to a combi if you currently do not have one.
Why, Sherlock?
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You can only run one hot tap at a time?
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Struggle to fill a full bath with hot water?
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I have a gas-fired combi, it runs one bathroom, the utility room and 20 odd radiators very well indeed. Certainly no lack of hot water for either bath or shower and at mains pressure. And I love baths.
The other side of the house has an oil-fired combi running another 2 bathrooms, the kitchen, and another 12 or so radiators and a few other bits and bobs. All without issue
When its supplying hot water its not feeding the radiators, but we have no issue using a tap, for example, when someone is showering.
But surely that's a reflection of our water pressure (which is excellent) as much as the boiler?
The original oil combi was a never ending disaster, but that's because I bought a s*** one. Replacing it with a good one has meant no issues for some years.
What does a tank get me except the opportunity to heat water that I won't necessarily use?
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Got a Worcester combi in the cottage - runs a bath ok, bit slow to heat up the building after we arrive though.
Got an Ideal CXA-H 40 or 50kW boiler and HW cylinder at home - 10+ft ceilings, 22 radiators, mostly single glazed, big bath every night - gas bill can choke a small horse - I prefer to wear a jumper.
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I have just had a service on my six year old WB combi, which has been trouble free. The chap pointed out you can now have a timer fitted so you can turn it on from your phone, which would solve your problem in the cottage.
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>> > Think long and hard about going to a combi if you currently do not
>> have one.
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>> Why, Sherlock?
>>
Biggest issue with combis is generally that when they go wrong you have no heating or hot water. An electric shower plus a combi does at least mean you can continue to wash if the boiler packs up. Otherwise you’re left with cold water, no heating and a wait for a plumber!!
Edited to add that having two combi boilers, one gas one oil, does significantly reduce the chances of a total boiler outage ;)
Last edited by: PeterS on Mon 30 Oct 17 at 21:22
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>>Edited to add that having two combi boilers, one gas one oil, does significantly reduce the chances of a total boiler outage ;)
Indeed it does. And a couple of times we've been grateful for it. Like the time after much nagging I finally got around to nailing down a troublesome floorboard. Pity about the central heating pipe underneath it.
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I have a WB combi boiler, I specified one size up (hot water output) than recommended for my size of house. If you scroll down the page in the link below you will see the range of boilers of the type I have they are all 30kw for heating but have different hot water outputs.
www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/products/boilers/directory/greenstar-cdi-classic#technical
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I'll tell you what is worth investing in; thermostats.
You don't want to give the same amount of heat output to different rooms; they're different sizes, used differently, more or less often, different times of the day, different size radiators, more or less insulated, etc. etc.
We have a thermostatically manaed flow control on each radiator and one theremostat for each 'area' or floor - 5 I think.
We also have each floor on a different circuit from the relevant boiler allowing each to be on separate on/off timers..
It was an unholy pain in the a*** to create and then set up, but its b***** brilliant now.
How people control the heat of their whole house from a thermostat in the hallway is quite beyond me.
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My boiler is in the loft space so I have one of these radio remote controlls. I also have thermostatic valves on my radiators. Once set up it needs no intervention unless you want to override the heating on or off, it then returns to the programmed sequence after the next switching time.
www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/products/boiler-controls/directory/greenstar-comfort-ii-programmable-room-thermostat-and-rf-receiver
It is also a modulating boiler which varies its output depending on the difference between demanded temperature and actual temperature.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 30 Oct 17 at 22:11
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Our previous house had separate circuits for upstairs and downstairs with a master timer for downstairs and another upstairs. Great idea until the upstairs motorised value stopped working and we had no idea where it was! Found it after a few hours of searching under floors... some educated guesses.
When it failed I simply turned it to always on. Made into one circuit. We didn't really benefit from two circuits because when cold in the winter there were rooms in use upstairs.
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>>How people control the heat of their whole house from a thermostat in the hallway is quite beyond me.
Most of us don't have sprawling mansions that need 2 boilers, 5 heating zones, and umpteen radiators.... :-)
My sister had a new (combi) boiler fitted, and the fitter didn't re-connect the room stat; saying one was not required on new installations. What a twonk! I had it reconnected in 10 minutes.
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>>>>How people control the heat of their whole house from a thermostat in the hallway is quite beyond me.>>
You set individual radiators with thermostat valves. Works fine for me.
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>> >>>>How people control the heat of their whole house from a thermostat in the hallway
>> is quite beyond me.>>
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>> You set individual radiators with thermostat valves. Works fine for me.
Obviously that is one way; but many people, my parents included, think all they need is a single thermostat and a miracle will happen.
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>> Obviously that is one way; but many people, my parents included, think all they need
>> is a single thermostat and a miracle will happen.
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No one knows everything about everything, and how all things work, not even those who think they do.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 31 Oct 17 at 13:30
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>>No one knows everything about everything, and how all things work, not even those who think they do.
I don't understand your point, other than the stating of the blatantly obvious.
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"No one knows everything about everything"
ON
"I know that I know nothing","The only thing I know, is that I know nothing"
Socrates
Plato states that Socrates seems wiser than any other person because he does not imagine that he knows what he does not know.
Working my way thorough the history of philosophy podcast on my daily walks. :-)
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Tue 31 Oct 17 at 17:36
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>> Obviously that is one way; but many people, my parents included, think all they need
>> is a single thermostat and a miracle will happen.
But millions of systems were installed that way. The theory was that if you had the right sized radiators in the rooms, and you set the wall stat in the hall at 65, the living rooms would be at 70 and the bedrooms 60.
It more or less worked in the house I lived in as a teenager.
We have a fairly ancient system here, radiators that don't heat up as much and that sort of thing. They have thermostatic valves, and we have a stat in the hall. The kitchen has no heating except for a gas Rayburn that is on low all day in the winter. Leaving the kitchen door open just wrecks any attempt at control. Two bedrooms are in an extension with a flat roof. They are permanently freezing. We are going to knock it down and rebuild I think!
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Had combis in the last 4 properties. The dreadful French made one in the the first place was a nightmare. British Gas were very good at coming to fix it as and when (this was a house owned from 86 to 98 - if we hadn't sold when we did I would have replaced it), the second one was a BW one - floor standing and was brand new when we fired it up ran from 98 to 2011 -BW service contract, worth every penny, I think it was practically re-built over the years ! That was due to be changed if I'd have stayed there. The last one was a Grant - installed in 2008 and was run all winter between the time it was commissioned and we moved in (house had been standing from new to our occupation in 2011), it was running fine when we left in May, the heating engineer said it was good for another 10 years plus. The one where we are now is a Warmflow - installed in 2006 is ready to be replaced. Needs a major overhaul. All have been efficient. House two had 2 electric showers and a gas fire (LPG) by the time I left, This house has a woodburner and a LPG hob. So it is effectively none dependent on the boiler. We may whiff after a while - but the Spa down the lane has showers and a pool ! All the ones I've experienced have been efficient in warming and provision of hot water. House 2 was BIG !!!
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Ours is a combi boiler in the kitchen and is pretty efficient doesn't seem to cost much to run, but then it's only about a year old. There's an immersion heater upstairs as a back up and the shower is electric, which is handy. Control is an old fashioned thermostat in the hallway.
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Why do you have a tank for the immersion heater if you have a Combi boiler?
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I've no idea, it was like that when we got here.
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Old house had oil heating in, the boiler was terribly unreliable. The plumber was out all the time to it. Seemed to take ages to heat the place up and really struggled filling up a bath which the OH didn't like at all. Mind you the place was poorly insulated, the boiler seemed to absolutely guzzle oil.
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Are you sure you have a Combi boiler?
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Not really sure no, the house is rented so I don't worry too much about that type of thing. I thought the plumber said it was but I might well have not heard him properly.
I do know it's an odd set up though, it's confused a couple of tradesman that have been round.
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You have round Tradesmen!
I represent that remark.
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>> I do know it's an odd set up though, it's confused a couple of tradesman
>> that have been round.
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Might be like mine, non combi - I have two buttons HW and CH on the controller. If I want central heating, I have to press HW and CH..... or just HW for hot water.
Have a water cylinder upstairs. A press of the HW heated to 60c will last a day, temp reducing during the day.
House built '98, so odd that it hasn't a combi on that time period. I had the original Ideal boiler replaced with a Baxi 3 years ago.
I have the ability to schedule by time, but I just do manually, I know when it on and off then.
TBH, I prefer it like that. Make me cringe when the boiler (at my parents for instance) firing up repeatedly for small amounts of water - and then having to wait wasting water for it to warm.
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Right I've had a look and it's this one, the 18 kw one.
idealboilers.com/installers/products/logic-heat
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That is not a Combi boiler. It's is a heat only type that supplies both your central heating radiators and your storage tank with hot water.
A Combi boiler is effectively a water heater and a boiler combined. When you want hot water it supplies it directly to the hot water tap using the heater rather than heating water that is stored in a water cylinder in the airing cupboard.
They are usually installed because they take up less space than a conventional indirect system like that which you have. They don't need room for storage tanks.
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.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Tue 31 Oct 17 at 08:58
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Thanks for the suggestions! - Heatin-man just been "eeh is that a Myson-Midas? I haven't seen one of those for 30 years!" - "have you thought of upgrading, I can sort you a new one at reasonable price"
That was before even looking at it - verdict: "I've fitted a new flow-switch, it's ok for now, £83 please!"
My conclusion: renew later!! - Thanks all!
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I'm running a boiler that's nearly 30 years old. Shouldn't say this but I've never had a problem with it. I'm sure it is massively uneconomical compared to today's boilers ( - it was eligible for the max govt assistance when they did some scheme a few years back - ) but my next door neighbour is a gas plumber and said it's really not worth spending on changing it till it goes terminally wrong. It is a make & model for which most spares are still available and I do get it serviced and checked regularly (by bloke next door!! :-) )
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Ours is on a wing and a prayer and needs "overhauling". Not going to spend £500 on a boiler where something else breaks a a few months later.
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"That is not a Combi boiler. It's is a heat only type that supplies both your central heating radiators and your storage tank with hot water."
I suspect that there is frequent confusion between the terms' Condensing boiler' and 'Combination boiler'.
Ours is a condensing boiler from the same range as the 'Ideal' shown in the link. I understand that the earlier 'Ideal' condensers weren't too reliable - ours certainly wasn't, though it did reach 16-years old. The new one (Ideal Logic24) was installed 3 years ago; our trusty plumber reckoned they had come good, and ours has behaved in an exemplary manner. He has installed loads of 'Ideals' and, the real test, has installed one in his own house.
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Or a "condescending" boiler as they're known here.
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All boilers be it condensing or combination boilers need servicing by a tradesman/women once a year.
Ours is the Ideal standard Isar HE 24 Combination boiler.Combination boilers are always a compromise.Our radatiors are now 34 years old.The Myson type, i used to do the crosswelding and plasma welding.The job was good money just a madhouse factory.Two years was enough for me.
I don't flush the radiators anymore which I did every two years.I add a additive against corrosion which is working up to now.
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>> All boilers be it condensing or combination boilers need servicing by a tradesman/women once a
>> year.
Mine is now 10 years old. Its been serviced once. Still working as good as the day it was installed.
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Mine's been done twice in 10 years - once after a year by the maker to get the 2nd year warranty, and once by me after 6 or so years when I had the burner out (replaced the flame sensor and was checking the clearance I think). A service consisted of a quick look in the burner housing to check there was nothing in it, and removing a big bee from the casing that had got sucked in! I've also re-pressured the exp tank twice (think the valve is leaking) which involves removing it as no access to the valve - this wasn't covered in the first 'service'!
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>>Still working as good as the day it was installed.
Will it be flowers or donations to your favourite charity?
Last edited by: Clk Sec on Tue 31 Oct 17 at 13:02
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>> >>Still working as good as the day it was installed.
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>> Will it be flowers or donations to your favourite charity?
Neither, send donations to the maker of the carbon monoxide detector.
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>>Mine is now 10 years old. Its been serviced once.
That's probably about what I do, once every 4 or 5 years. Seems ok to me.
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>> >>Mine is now 10 years old. Its been serviced once.
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>> That's probably about what I do, once every 4 or 5 years. Seems ok to
>> me.
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That's about what we do. We had our six year old WB serviced this year for only the second time, the first being a freebee after twelve months. One problem with modern gas stuff is the igniter runs off the electric mains and the gas flow shuts down if there is no power. A recent four hour power cut during hurricane something or other meant no heating (No matter as it was mild) and the newish hob couldn't be lit with a match, so not even a cup of tea could be had. The local crap chippie had to supply our dinner.
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Tue 31 Oct 17 at 14:18
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Our boiler was installed in 1982. New timeclock, new pump, several pilot light gas thermostats, several room thermostats, one rusted radiator, one cold water ballcock, new gas control valve (bought new cheap on ebay just for such a failure).
Err that's it...
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>> >> >>The local crap chippie had to supply our dinner.
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Poor you, our traditional one still uses potatoes :-)
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>>and the newish hob couldn't be lit with a match
That'd be a nightmare here. I wonder what the thinking behind that is? Doesn't really seem to be any likely safety issue.
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>> That'd be a nightmare here. I wonder what the thinking behind that is? Doesn't really
>> seem to be any likely safety issue.
The hob detects when there is no flame from the burner and automatically shuts off the gas supply.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 1 Nov 17 at 01:44
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>> The hob detects when there is no flame from the burner and automatically shuts off
>> the gas supply.
Given that gas does not come through the meter lit and has to come out of the burner and mixed with air before it can be lit, Im not sure how that is intended to work.
Its more likely the hob has electrically controlled taps and regulators. No leccy no gas.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 31 Oct 17 at 18:58
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We had a combi boiler which was OK but not great. It struggled to maintain temperature to run a full bath. Of course you have the normal issues that only one hot tap can run at any one time.
When we got the extension built which involved a new en suite we got new boiler installed with a huge water tank (we now had space for it). This allows us to run two showers at the one time and filling a bath is no problem. It is a Vokera.
It was fitted in 2010 and in 2016 my engineer advised that there were numerous problems with it and would need to change it which I was not happy with. I didnt have any form of plan on it, just used a local trusted guy for servicing.
I decided to shop around and discovered Vokera did a fixed price repair plan and took them up on that. Boiler was fixed , nowhere near the amount of problems my "trusted" guy said and its just had its annual service, having given me a full year of no hassle service.
I definitely think that the engineers all have their preferred makes. The guy that serviced mine from Vokera told me that he would probably not be able to fit a boiler from scratch but he could repair them all blindfolded. Similarly the guys that do fit them do not want to come back to do any repairs as they can be too footery and they make their money on full installs and profit from new boilers.
Bit like cars I guess, every indie mechanic will have the makes they recommend and the ones they dont. Wont necessarily match the next indie's recommendation!
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combi-boiler - sherlock47
