Non-motoring > Catalonia referendum	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: sooty123	Replies: 94

New Tue 26 Sep 17 18:15   Catalonia referendum - sooty123

I can't help but draw comparison between this and the Scottish vote, especially in how the central government reacted. In Spain they seem to have come down really hard on the regional government, bringing in police from outside the area. They've even gone as far as making headmasters responsible from what happens on their schools property, as schools are used for voting. I see it's not a constitutional vote but their voice seems to have been ignored. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29478415 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 26 Sep 17 18:36   Catalonia referendum - R.P.

Very good coverage on the radio last week sometime. Bit sad it seems to me that a former fascist state is becoming bolshy. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 30 Sep 17 16:46   Catalonia referendum - sooty123

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41452174 Looks like the authorities in Madrid are getting ever serious about the vote not happening. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 30 Sep 17 17:05   Catalonia referendum - Dutchie

The Catalonians would vote for independence what good that would do I don't know. Maybe a Spanish person on this forum can explain.>:) Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 30 Sep 17 17:11   Catalonia referendum - Zero

>> The Catalonians would vote for independence what good that would do I don't know. Thats not a given but the reaction of the state has polarised views on both sides. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 30 Sep 17 17:23   Catalonia referendum - Dutchie

Has been going on for years zero a bit like the Scots here.Except the Scots where allowed to vote. Maybe the Spanish government still likes to show who is boss. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 30 Sep 17 17:41   Catalonia referendum - R.P.

It was mentioned in the radio report (by a Spanish Politician)that the UK is the only EU country that would allow referenda on such issues. Madrid's stance will polarize opinions and probably lead more to think of voting for some sort of self determination. Will of the people will out, even if they are wrong. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 30 Sep 17 18:24   Catalonia referendum - Zero

>> Has been going on for years zero It has, and they were a self governed region before the Civil war, and were then suppressed by Franco, BUT there is (currently) still no clear mandate by the people of the whole region for a referendum. However, the current action of the central state may change that. The State may shoot itself in the foot. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 30 Sep 17 18:29   Catalonia referendum - zippy

If a group want self determination it is difficult to stop them and potentially risks terrorist activity or at worst civil war. Problem is, where does this fervent nationalism end and where do we end up? Will we have city states of London, Birmingham, Bristol etc? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 30 Sep 17 18:30   Catalonia referendum - Zero

There is a significant majority who feel they are being railroaded into a vote by a hung local government controlled by some militants. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 30 Sep 17 20:05   Catalonia referendum - sooty123

When I saw the reports it did mention opinion polls and it's not that clear cut. Many have moved into the area from other parts of Spain so don't feel the need to become independent. The polls suggest it could be 50/50%. Although from what I gather those opposed will boycott the vote hoping it will look as one sided as possible making it look like something from a vote from N Korea. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 1 Oct 17 08:30   Catalonia referendum - Cliff Pope

As most issues are approximately 50/50, referendums seem a really good way of polarising the situation and stirring up dissent and dissatisfaction on both sides. I'd have thought our own recent experiences would have demonstrated that. Despite the plausible democratic arguments of the advocates, those who want a referendum invariable have an axe to grind and are none too scrupulous about their unleashing of extremist views which they hope to be able to exploit. Their role as a genuine addition to the democratic process seems to me to be very questionable. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 1 Oct 17 10:47   Catalonia referendum - zippy

I suppose you could use that argument anywhere where the Govt has taken over a province or independent state and then moved their own people in to "make up the numbers". Tibet springs to mind. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 1 Oct 17 13:03   Catalonia referendum - zippy

Just watching a clip of riot police smashing down polling booths. Doesn't look very democratic!? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 1 Oct 17 14:00   Catalonia referendum - Duncan

>> Just watching a clip of riot police smashing down polling booths. >> >> Doesn't look very democratic!? >> An illegal election is undemocratic, shirley? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 1 Oct 17 15:19   Catalonia referendum - zippy

>> An illegal election is undemocratic, shirley? >> It's a bit "Catch 22". Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 1 Oct 17 at 18:59 Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 2 Oct 17 10:31   Catalonia referendum - Ambo

If Catalonia did manage to achieve independence, would it have to apply for EU membership (if, indeed, it wanted to)? Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 2 Oct 17 10:33   Catalonia referendum - sooty123

>> If Catalonia did manage to achieve independence, would it have to apply for EU membership >> (if, indeed, it wanted to)? >> I believe they would have to yes. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 2 Oct 17 10:38   Catalonia referendum - Zero

A scenario that would have been tested if the Jocks had voted for independence. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 2 Oct 17 11:18   Catalonia referendum - Bromptonaut

>> A scenario that would have been tested if the Jocks had voted for independence. Spain was particularly vocal in telling Scots they need to join afresh. They didn't want a precedent that Catalonia (or other provinces) could follow. As an aside I note Telegraph today and other voices on right complaining about lack of action from EU over this. Can you imagine their rage if EU sought to intervene uninvited in a UK constitutional crisis??? Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 2 Oct 17 11:25   Catalonia referendum - zippy

>>As an aside I note Telegraph today and other voices on right complaining about lack of action >>from EU over this. Can you imagine their rage if EU sought to intervene uninvited in a UK >>constitutional crisis??? Shirley they don't have double standards? Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 2 Oct 17 11:31   Catalonia referendum - Haywain

"Shirley they don't have double standards?" Who is Shirley? Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 2 Oct 17 11:46   Catalonia referendum - zippy

>>Who is Shirley? www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixljWVyPby0 From about 1 minute in :-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 2 Oct 17 12:52   Catalonia referendum - VxFan

>> From about 1 minute in :-) youtu.be/ixljWVyPby0?t=1m3s Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 2 Oct 17 12:57   Catalonia referendum - Hard Cheese

I hope it does not end up drawing more comparisons with the Irish problem than the Scottish indy ref. The Basques seem to have renounced violence though the heavy handed tactics from Madrid may incite those Catalans willing to fight for the cause. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 2 Oct 17 13:01   Catalonia referendum - Lygonos

I expect it is more likely to have shifted a 40% leave vote towards a majority. Madrid made a massive arsenal of this one. Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 2 Oct 17 at 14:01 Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 2 Oct 17 23:34   Catalonia referendum - Manatee

I have just been watching the Spanish police with batons laying into a crowd of voters. The Spanish have made an utter cock of this situation and it's hard to see how it won't increase the desire for self-determination. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 3 Oct 17 08:22   Catalonia referendum - Zero

It would have been remarkably easy to say, up front "This is illegal, vote or no vote, it changes nothing" then let them run it. There is a billion ways to discredit an illegal vote afterwards if needed. Now they are creating another Basque situation, but this time its a very financially important region with a lot of clout, not a bunch of peasants in the hills. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 3 Oct 17 12:53   Catalonia referendum - movilogo

Hopefully Spain will now have less time to poke its nose in Gibraltar. Reply to this message | Report message       2

New Tue 3 Oct 17 13:44   Catalonia referendum - Roger.

I suspect that the reason that Madrid is so upset is not too dissimilar with the EU reaction to Brexit. Both Catalonia (hugely prosperous compared with many other Spanish regions) and the UK are substantial net contributors to central revenues of the bureaucracies concerned. The Basques are another prosperous region of Spain too! Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 3 Oct 17 14:29   Catalonia referendum - Bromptonaut

>> Hopefully Spain will now have less time to poke its nose in Gibraltar. There's something mildly ironic about a migrant turned Little Englander....... There is of course an argument for Spain to renew it's claim on Gibraltar and engage in further sabre rattling as a means of diverting attention from domestic issues. We could call it the Galtieri Gambit :-) Reply to this message | Report message       2

New Tue 3 Oct 17 17:52   Catalonia referendum - Cliff Pope

>> >> We could call it the Galtieri Gambit :-) >> Not a very successful one though, was it? He lost the war, lost power, was prosecuted for a range of offences including treason and human rights abuse, and investigated over the disappearance of three Spanish citizens. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 3 Oct 17 18:24   Catalonia referendum - Zero

>> >> >> >> We could call it the Galtieri Gambit :-) >> >> >> >> Not a very successful one though, was it? It worked well for Maggie Thatcher tho. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 3 Oct 17 14:37   Catalonia referendum - sooty123

>> Hopefully Spain will now have less time to poke its nose in Gibraltar. >> Oh they'll always find time for that. Although I doubt they'd want it, I mean how many independence movements do they want to deal with inside Spain at once, how many have got now? Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 3 Oct 17 18:15   Catalonia referendum - CGNorwich

The King of Spain is to address the nation tonight. Let's hope he can begin a process of reconciliation. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 3 Oct 17 21:05   Catalonia referendum - zippy

>> The King of Spain is to address the nation tonight. Let's hope he can begin >> a process of reconciliation. >> www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41493014 So that's a no then! Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 3 Oct 17 22:51   Catalonia referendum - Zero

Yes, that went well. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 3 Oct 17 22:54   Catalonia referendum - CGNorwich

No mention whatsoever of the police violence. Looking like Spain is heading for a full blown constitutional crisi Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 3 Oct 17 22:54   Catalonia referendum - Lygonos

Amazing - what a fanny. Imagine Her Maj doing that... Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 3 Oct 17 23:03   Catalonia referendum - Hard Cheese

It's quite a worry, the civil war was only a couple of generations ago and they only got rid of Franco 40 years ago or so. So internal armed struggle is relatively fresh in the national psyche and there is no sign of conciliation on either side. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 3 Oct 17 23:08   Catalonia referendum - Lygonos

Maybe Boris can start working on a trade deal with Catalonia. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 3 Oct 17 23:20   Catalonia referendum - Zero

I first went to Spain in 1964, ironically to the Catalan Girona region. Franco was in full control at that point, the Spanish civil war a mere 24 years previously, military and Guardia Civil everywhere giving it a slightly sinister feel. Two years later it was a Barcelona visit, the place was grimy with a clearly suppressed and downtrodden aura. Its not good. Madrid has handled this very badly indeed Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 4 Oct 17 09:22   Catalonia referendum - sooty123

Looks the Catalon government is ready to declare independence in the next few days. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41474674 Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 4 Oct 17 10:10   Catalonia referendum - Ambo

Madrid should adopt the EU tactic: keep taking the referendums until you get the outcome we want. Reply to this message | Report message       2

New Wed 4 Oct 17 10:26   Catalonia referendum - No FM2R

When and about what has the EU done that? Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 4 Oct 17 10:28   Catalonia referendum - Ambo

Denmark, Ireland, if I remember Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Wed 4 Oct 17 11:06   Catalonia referendum - No FM2R

Ah, so not really an EU tactic then. And repeatedly? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_related_to_the_European_Union Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 4 Oct 17 11:16   Catalonia referendum - CGNorwich

>> Madrid should adopt the EU tactic: keep taking the referendums until you get the outcome >> we want. I think you misunderstand what is going on here. The Catalonian government called the referendum, not Madrid, which is completely opposed to any referendum on the subject of Catalonian independence. The EU has made its position clear. This is a matter for the Spanish government and not the EU Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 4 Oct 17 11:33   Catalonia referendum - Zero

two faced Farage is now lambasting the EU for not getting involved in a countries affairs despite the fact he wants to get out of the EU because he thinks they get too involved in countries affairs Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Wed 4 Oct 17 12:52   Catalonia referendum - movilogo

So if Catalonia indeed becomes independent, will they be inside or outside EU by default? I think during Scotland vote, it was stated that new nation needs to apply to join, indicating they would start with being outside EU. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 4 Oct 17 12:55   Catalonia referendum - sooty123

Outside, in one of the BBC articles it quoted an EU treaty. If any territory that is part of an EU country leaves they are out of the EU. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 4 Oct 17 12:56   Catalonia referendum - movilogo

>> two faced Farage is now lambasting the EU for not getting involved Catalonia wanted EU to help it negotiate with Spain. EU said no. UK wants to negotiate with EU. EU says no. Bottom line is EU does not want to negotiate but wants to dictate. >> If any territory that is part of an EU country leaves they are out of the EU So England would have been out of EU faster if it were offered an independence referendum instead of UK wide EU referendum. :-p Interesting to see how Catalonia (non-EU) and Spain (EU) border is handled. Then EU can't poke its nose much on Ireland border :-) Last edited by: movilogo on Wed 4 Oct 17 at 12:59 Reply to this message | Report message       2

New Wed 4 Oct 17 13:16   Catalonia referendum - movilogo

Also, during Brexit negotiation, EU always wanted to ensure their citizens rights. In UK, the EU citizens are living happily ever after with no threat of their lives and livelyhood. In Catalonia, EU citizens are being beaten yet EU says "internal affair - not our problem". So, who is having two faces here? Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Wed 4 Oct 17 14:04   Catalonia referendum - Zero

>> Also, during Brexit negotiation, EU always wanted to ensure their citizens rights. In UK, the >> EU citizens are living happily ever after with no threat of their lives and livelyhood. Because it will be a non EU country. >> In Catalonia, EU citizens are being beaten yet EU says "internal affair - not our >> problem". Its an internal affair. If the EU had got involved in the Irish troubles you would have been the first to whine. >> So, who is having two faces here? As an immigrant trying to restrict immigration I think I can point that one out quite easily. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Wed 4 Oct 17 13:26   Catalonia referendum - No FM2R

>> Catalonia wanted EU to help it negotiate with Spain. EU said no. Catalonia is not part part the EU, Spain is. How can the EU get involved in that? >> UK wants to negotiate with EU. EU says no. EU is sticking exactly by the letter of the agreement that the UK signed up to. I can't say I like it, but that's the way it is. >> Bottom line is EU does not want to negotiate but wants to dictate. That's just a random statement, unconnected with anything else you've written. And entirely wrong. Really, if you must spout on this stuff, could you at least try to understand it first? Reply to this message | Report message       2

New Wed 4 Oct 17 14:07   Catalonia referendum - Zero

>> >> two faced Farage is now lambasting the EU for not getting involved >> >> Catalonia wanted EU to help it negotiate with Spain. EU said no. >> UK wants to negotiate with EU. EU says no. >> >> Bottom line is EU does not want to negotiate but wants to dictate. Bottom line its got rock all to do with the EU. So they aint getting involved. And its typical crap to try and blame them. Last edited by: Zero on Wed 4 Oct 17 at 14:08 Reply to this message | Report message       2

New Wed 4 Oct 17 14:30   Catalonia referendum - Manatee

>> Bottom line its got rock all to do with the EU. So they aint getting >> involved. And its typical crap to try and blame them. Bottom line is that an EU state is using its police force to abuse its own citizens' rights not to to beaten with truncheons for peaceful assembly. If the Commission wanted it to have something to do them, then it would have no difficulty at all poking its nose in and Juncker would already be rehearsing his snide remarks. If the EU is keeping quiet, it is because it hopes it will all go away, or that Spain will do the necessary dirty work and the EU can appear to have clean hands. Of course nothing is ever quite what it appears. No doubt there are fascists hiding their true colours on both sides of the argument. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Wed 4 Oct 17 14:40   Catalonia referendum - No FM2R

>>No doubt there are fascists hiding their true colours on both sides of the argument. No doubt. I've spent quite lot of time working in Barcelona. "Quietly stroppy on the issue" is about how I'd put it. Certainly they feel very strongly even selling two different language versions of newspapers. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 4 Oct 17 15:41   Catalonia referendum - sherlock47

Interesting to see how Catalonia (non-EU) and Spain (EU) border is handled. Then EU can't poke its nose much on Ireland border :-) Even more interesting is how to manage the France - Catalan Border! Since most of the Spanish road export trade goes that way! Although thinking further the Andorra border already raises the same issue. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 4 Oct 17 19:44   Catalonia referendum - zippy

>>The EU doesn't negotiate. Rubbish. The EU are negotiating with the UK at the moment. When Cameron went around the EU in 2015/16 there were small concessions but they were aware that major concessions to one would mean major concessions to others. I don't see the UK govt. negotiating with individuals in a group either, ask the Govt for a lower tax rate individually and they will tell you where to go! The EU cannot get involved in Spain's problem with Catalonia as it is a sovereign issue. They are effectively in a no-win situation - if they did get involved, some would criticise that for being none of their business! Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 4 Oct 17 14:26   Catalonia referendum - Bromptonaut

>> Madrid should adopt the EU tactic: keep taking the referendums until you get the outcome >> we want. The EU never did that. Some national governments, including those listed, carried out referendums over whether nations should accede to EU treaties. Some of those referendums rejected accession. The national governments then obtained revised terms or concessions from the EU. The national governments re-ran referendums on revised terms. So 'keep taking referendums is a local tactic not an EU one. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Wed 4 Oct 17 14:49   Catalonia referendum - No FM2R

If Catalonia declares independence, then FC Barcelona are going to have a long and boring winter. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Wed 4 Oct 17 13:28   Catalonia referendum - No FM2R

This is worth a read..... www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/04/violent-spain-catalans-independence-catalonia-crackdown Written by Jordi Borrell Celades [Head of sales at a chemical company based in Barcelona] Translation by Stephen Burgen Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 4 Oct 17 at 13:29 Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 27 Oct 17 15:12   Catalonia referendum - movilogo

Catalonia declared independence from Spain. Will they be out of EU automatically? Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 27 Oct 17 16:27   Catalonia referendum - Robin O'Reliant

>> Catalonia declared independence from Spain. >> >> Will they be out of EU automatically? I believe so. As an independent state they will have to apply for membership, as would the Scots if they left the UK. Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 27 Oct 17 at 23:49 Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 27 Oct 17 17:04   Catalonia referendum - Old Navy

Let's hope this does not become another civil war. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 27 Oct 17 17:15   Catalonia referendum - Zero

>> I believe so. As an independent state they will have to apply for membership, as >> would the Scots if they left the UK. they are not an independent state. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Fri 27 Oct 17 17:14   Catalonia referendum - Zero

>> Catalonia declared independence from Spain. >> >> Will they be out of EU automatically? Nope, they can say what they like, but they are still Spain. All it does is accelerate the loss of what autonomous control they had. Which aint much,. Last edited by: Zero on Fri 27 Oct 17 at 17:15 Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 27 Oct 17 17:24   Catalonia referendum - CGNorwich

Of no more effect than Norwich council declaring themselves independent. The Madrid Government remains the legitimate government and Catalonia remains part of Spain which of course remains in the EU. Will all be forgotten about in a year or two Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 27 Oct 17 17:34   Catalonia referendum - sooty123

> Will all be forgotten about in a year or two >> >> I doubt those with an interest in the news here or many of those living in Spain will forget this in a hurry. Reply to this message | Report message       4

New Fri 27 Oct 17 17:37   Catalonia referendum - zippy

>>Of no more effect than Norwich council declaring themselves independent. Would any one notice? :-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 27 Oct 17 22:38   Catalonia referendum - CGNorwich

No more than when they declared the city a nuclear free zone. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 29 Oct 17 08:14   Catalonia referendum - Zero

>> No more than when they declared the city a nuclear free zone. I assume then that patients now need to go to Ipswich for certain medical procedures? Last edited by: Zero on Sun 29 Oct 17 at 08:14 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 29 Oct 17 08:38   Catalonia referendum - CGNorwich

No need. www.norfolkhealingrooms.co.uk Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 29 Oct 17 08:45   Catalonia referendum - Duncan

>> No need. >> >> www.norfolkhealingrooms.co.uk >> What I don't understand is, if Jesus has the power to make you well again, why did he make you ill in the first place? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 29 Oct 17 09:49   Catalonia referendum - Roger.

>> What I don't understand is, if Jesus has the power to make you well again, >> why did he make you ill in the first place? To show the dumb masses he can? (I have fairies at the bottom of my garden, too). Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 29 Oct 17 at 19:55 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 29 Oct 17 08:49   Catalonia referendum - Zero

>> No need. >> >> www.norfolkhealingrooms.co.uk I love the eyesight restored testimony www.norfolkhealingrooms.co.uk/?page_id=104 reminds me of www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lbX7VxlrJQ Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 29 Oct 17 10:25   Catalonia referendum - CGNorwich

I like the venues especially this one: "East Runton: Every Tuesday 10am-12noon in our motor home at Sal’s Car Boot Sale, Cromer Road (the coast road) NR27 9NH, April to October weather permitting" Obviously best not to be ill in North Norfolk in winter or if the weather is inclement. I suppose you can always pray for good weather. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 29 Oct 17 12:54   Catalonia referendum - Zero

>> No more than when they declared the city a nuclear free zone. >> The national grid should then reduce their voltage by 22%, can't have nasty nuclear power can they Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Fri 27 Oct 17 17:38   Catalonia referendum - sooty123

Nope, they can say what they like, but they are still Spain. All it does >> is accelerate the loss of what autonomous control they had. Which aint much,. >> I am lead to believe the Spanish regions had quite a lot of autonomy? More than local government in the UK. Last edited by: sooty123 on Fri 27 Oct 17 at 17:39 Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 27 Oct 17 17:49   Catalonia referendum - Zero

>> Nope, they can say what they like, but they are still Spain. All it does >> >> is accelerate the loss of what autonomous control they had. Which aint much,. >> >> >> >> I am lead to believe the Spanish regions had quite a lot of autonomy? More >> than local government in the UK. But considerably less than the devolved government of Scotland. And now the Catalans have zero autonomy Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Fri 27 Oct 17 17:55   Catalonia referendum - sooty123

> But considerably less than the devolved government of Scotland. A Ah right, I suppose these terms are relative. And now the Catalans have zero >> autonomy >> I didn't think Madrid had pushed the button, so to speak? Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 27 Oct 17 21:38   Catalonia referendum - R.P.

What's very odd the rampant Brexit people I know are ranting on about how they have no right to self determination and sovereignty.., I'd have thought they'd have been all for it. Reply to this message | Report message       2

New Fri 27 Oct 17 22:47   Catalonia referendum - zippy

>> What's very odd the rampant Brexit people I know are ranting on about how they >> have no right to self determination and sovereignty.., I'd have thought they'd have been all >> for it. >> I would think you would rather have friends as neighbours rather then enemies in the same house. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 28 Oct 17 14:36   Catalonia referendum - Roger.

>> What's very odd the rampant Brexit people I know are ranting on about how they >> have no right to self determination and sovereignty.., I'd have thought they'd have been all >> for it. >> I'm "rampant Brexit" as you know. I take the same view as I did of the Scot's referendum - I'd prefer the Nation State to remain, but would be perfectly OK with accepting the will of the voters concerned. Last edited by: Roger. on Sat 28 Oct 17 at 14:36 Reply to this message | Report message       2

New Sat 28 Oct 17 11:20   Catalonia referendum - sooty123

Looks like they have formally taken control. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41785292 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 28 Oct 17 12:47   Catalonia referendum - Ambo

Have the Catalonians said how they would deal with defence after independence? Leave that bit to Madrid, maybe? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 28 Oct 17 13:17   Catalonia referendum - Old Navy

I expect the Catalonian separatists are a bit like the SNP, no thought given to funding, currency, defence, an HMRC equivalent, and a few hundred other details required for setting up a modern civilised country. Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 28 Oct 17 at 13:21 Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 28 Oct 17 14:32   Catalonia referendum - Roger.

>> Have the Catalonians said how they would deal with defence after independence? Leave that bit >> to Madrid, maybe? >> Like the Scot Nats. maybe? Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 28 Oct 17 17:03   Catalonia referendum - Cliff Pope

>> >> Have the Catalonians said how they would deal with defence after independence? Leave that >> bit >> >> to Madrid, maybe? >> >> >> >> Like the Scot Nats. maybe? >> Or like Norwich council. I don't suppose they have rushed to recruit their own non-nuclear defence force to replace the loss of the nuclear umbrella they previously sheltered under. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 28 Oct 17 15:02   Catalonia referendum - No FM2R

>> Have the Catalonians said how they would deal with defence after independence? No, because they knew it would not happen. They have made a political move which was pretty much their only option. The other would have been for them to climb down and admit they had acted illegally and in any case had insufficient support. This way they have forced Madrid to act, increased the political disruption, and will walk away as the people who were beaten by the evil Madrid, not as the self-seving idiots that had to resign. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sun 29 Oct 17 07:54   Catalonia referendum - Cliff Pope

>> >> This way they have forced Madrid to act, increased the political disruption, and will walk >> away as the people who were beaten by the evil Madrid, not as the self-seving >> idiots that had to resign. >> That's right - cunning operators focus on the second confrontation, having laid the groundwork in the first. It's the second revolution that counts - Lenin, not Kerensky. Reply to this message | Report message

New Fri 22 Dec 17 06:00   Catalonia referendum - sooty123

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42451100 Start of the second confrontation? The separatists have won enough seats to win a majority if they manage to form a coalition. The Prime minister's has scored it's lowest result ever. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 23 Dec 17 11:49   Catalonia referendum - Dutchie

Yorkshire likes to be independent about 5 million people live here. We end up with the crumbs let overs from down south Westminster.Upgrade to one of our major roads into the city waiting time about twenty years up to now.No money available. Says it all. Reply to this message | Report message

New Sat 23 Dec 17 11:52   Catalonia referendum - Duncan

>> Says it all. Absolute nonsense. That says it all. Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 23 Dec 17 at 20:49 Reply to this message | Report message