Does anyone believe the explanation being given out re flight cancellations?
Or is it that they lost more pilots than expected to rivals?
Just wondering as the whole "we messed up the leave rotas" appears somewhat preposterous.
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Prob'ly too many of them with electric cars. All waiting for them to charge up...
;-)
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No idea, and other than reading one report, no contact.
A wild a*** guess would be that they were trying to protect themselves from something. Negative publicity, attention from the regulator? No idea. But something.
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I agree with you Lygo - they have been losing pilots apparently, but that isn't really a story that reflects well on them.
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I am flying with them during the fiasco period. I'm now waiting to see if my flights are cancelled or not.
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I hope you're not making use of your EU right to open access to all countries in the EU when you fly with Ryanair ;-)
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As per MSE website, Ryanair is unlikely to pay any compensation and anyone claiming such should be ready to fight in Irish court.
Realistically, in worst case, I have to rely on travel insurance.
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Reports from several news sources earlier suggest a number of reasons:
Holidays to bring their leave year in line with Irish regulations (so pilot hours can be monitored against the regs more easily).
Lots of pilots have defected to Norwegian after Ryan Air fail to make staff feel part of a team.
Lack of training facilities, e.g. simulators, for new pilots.
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Whatever the reason for the shortage of pilots, I think they owe it to to their customers to be a bit more upfront which flights are being cancelled and when. Announcing flight cancellations up until the 20th really isn't good enough IMO, particularly when they're not even protecting return flights. So you could happily fly out somewhere on the 20th expecting to return on the 23rd and discover on the 21st they weren't going to bring you back. Now, EU regulations mean they should book you an alternative. But I bet they don't and leave it to the customers to make alternative arrangements and claim th cost back... so so much for that bit of consumer protection ;)
I think it's iniquitous that they put people who, in all probability, don't have the resources to make alterntiave arrangements at the drop of a hat in that position, and the fact that they are makes a mockery of the EU legislation intended to prevent it. I would have the resources, or a corporate travel agent, to sort it out and I still wouldn't want the hassle. So I never fly Ryanair. They're not even that cheap much of the time!
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Ryanair website now has a PDF listing all cancelled flights.
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I heard it suggested they were about to get slapped, hard, by the CAA over pilot hours.
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I'm not sure I think they pushed it close but never exceeded them ?
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Buy cheap, buy twice. Ryanair staff have been complaining for a long time about conditions and the fact they felt they were undervalued.
The chickens appear to have come home to roost. Gives O'Leary something to think about, despite all his protestations about needing to ensure his employers have their rightful holiday allowances.
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Ryanair has enough 'previous' for 'caveat emptor' to take meaning. I avoid them like the plague.
www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/comment/struggles-you-will-only-understand-if-you-have-flown-ryanair/
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As do I, b***** awful airline.
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I see some of his 4,200 pilots have been holding meetings to discuss strike action.
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>> Ryanair has enough 'previous' for 'caveat emptor' to take meaning. I avoid them like the
>> plague.
>>
>> www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/comment/struggles-you-will-only-understand-if-you-have-flown-ryanair/
>>
From a business travel perspective, Ryanair have been on the 'banned' list for several years. I won't use them for leisure travel either. The o,d saying fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me has never been more apt ;)
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We choose not to use them either any more. General consensus was that business would have to be a lot worse to go back on that decision... ;-)
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Never had any problems. Get you to the destination for the minimum price which is all they claim to do. If you want extra frills go elsewhere and pay more. Statistically one of the safest airlines in the world.
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The challenge for us, as a business, is what happens when they don't get you to the destination (or back). And it doesn't really matter statically how low the probability of that is if you're the one stuck in Germany on a Friday evening. They don't offer alternatives, they won't rebook on other airlines and their communication is dire. You're left to fend for yourself. Now at one level that's fine - a company credit card solves anything. But not much says 'we don't care' as an employer as much as sending someone somewhere on an airline that doesn't care. Let's be honest, they'd probably rather not be going wherever it is, for work at anyway. Shorthaul travel for work can be hard work!! And, while I can't guarantee it's like for like, our flight cost per European trip didn't change year on year when we canned Ryanair. But employee satisfaction went up ;)
Last edited by: PeterS on Tue 19 Sep 17 at 21:56
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>>The challenge for us, as a business, is what happens when they don't get you to the destination (or back).
They are all probably as bad as each other.
Colleague was stuck in Germany when a Lufthansa flight was cancelled and he needed to be in the UK the next day for an important meeting.
They wouldn't help him book on another flight the next morning or help with hotel bookings for the night. When he politely but firmly insisted they did in perfect German, they politely mentioned that other passengers were waiting to be served and if he didn't leave check in they would call the police!
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>> They are all probably as bad as each other.
Was booked on an early Monday morning BA shuttle from LHR to GLA, we were all boarded when the plane refused to boot up. BA had us offloaded, onto another and departed inside 50 minutes.
With LyinAir or SleazyJet it would have been a cancelled flight, see you tomorrow.
I'll use the budgets (Been really pleased with Monarch) when its not a critical journey. Used SleazyJet often, LyinAir when they do actually go to the place you want to be at (and not at some disused military airbase 90 miles away from the city they advertised)
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 19 Sep 17 at 23:07
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>>BA
Been on a long haul BA flight where I was upgraded to business class for giving the check in clerk a couple of moments to compose themselves after a particularly obnoxious passenger and his Mrs.
Really great experience, especially when boarding, said passenger walked through the business section and said "wow" this looks fab - and it was!
Another time, post 9/11 probably 2003, sitting on the last flight out of O'Hare the BA captain ordered us all off due to a passenger that got on without a valid passport. As the bridge was pulled back and the door closed he got up and ran to the door screaming "I want to get off".
So we all got off, waited 4 hours for the sniffer dogs to go through the plane. Everyone was checking their bags in case he had planted anything on them.
Did wonder how someone with incorrect ID managed to get on the plane in the first place when I wasn't allowed to take a small sponge toy on board and had to put it in the hold.
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I don't know how many BA Long Hail flights I have been on, but its a lot. Really a lot.
I've had the odd flight cancelled or delayed I'm sure, though not that I can remember. However, I cannot remember a flight with bad service either at check-in or on the flight.
I've always found them an oasis of calm in the otherwise very irritating world of business travel.
Shame there's a decreasing amount of 747s. I've been known to downgrade one or twice just to sit upstairs. Always seems that much darker and that much quieter.
Only once have I ever got on the wrong flight. It was early in the morning in New York, I think, and blurry eyed me and my coffee wandered though onto the plane. Been through check in and boarding all properly though.
I'd been sat there about 10 minutes when they came and got me back off, pointing out that I was on the Chicago flight, rather than the LA flight I should have been on. That could have been a disaster.
The worst I had was a Varig flight from LHR to Sap Paulo which broke and had to land in Rio. And that was way late at night. That was utter chaos.
The problem being that any flight they could put us on would land in the Sao Paulo domestic airport, a fair amount of miles from the international car park where my and most others' cars were., though ironically I lived only about 4 miles from the domestic airport.
I flew Ryanair out of Dublin a few times. Awful. just awful.
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I once flex LHR to SFO with BA. It happened to be the day of Princess Diana's funeral.
We should have taken off before air space shutdown and all shops in the airport shut. But a problem with the plane. So we got delayed by an hour(ish) or so because of the funeral. But they basically had to offload all luggage from one 747 and onto a 'spare' that was available.
As said Ryanair would have just cancelled the flight.
Don't get me wrong I've used Ryanair a few times and things have gone smoothly. But with the hand luggage change I'd consider alternatives if available. And now can you trust them.
I'd never trust Ryanair to keep certain routes season to season. I had expected them to honour routes and bookings that already exist. Having said that Thomas Cook pulled a Birmingham flight to Greece because the route was selling badly and offered Gatwick or Manchester as the alternatives... admittedly many months in advance.
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Other than a holiday flight in Feb, I haven't used Ryanair much for a few years, but I used them fairly frequently at one time to Turin and less often to other European destinations. No frills, and at times what seemed like gratuitous inconvenience (to create a reason to pay for extras perhaps), but generally on time. I never had any concerns about safety.
It's quite noticeable that the industry as a whole has moved more or less towards the Ryanair way of doing things rather than the reverse..
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There was a documentary on a few years ago about one way the budget airlines risk safety.
It related to the fuel on board. Pilots would put the bare legal minimum extra fuel in as they got a bonus for saving the airline money (as it costs fuel to transport the fuel).
There was an incident at a major Spanish airport and all flights were diverted to regional airports.
Several of the budget airlines had to declare emergencies as they were running out of fuel and the experts being interviewed suggested that if there was another incident at the diversion field then disaster could strike and it could be as simple as half a dozen planes declaring fuel emergencies - which one is the priority and potentially some might not make it.
Last edited by: zippy on Tue 19 Sep 17 at 23:04
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Never flown ryr myself and would avoid them for anything other than an enthusiasts trip using cheapy offers. Both offspring have used them and been fine. The Lad and his girlfriend used the last year from Stansted to Carcassonne. Watching on FR24 it looked as if they were going to be delayed as inbound leg was well late. Apparently not all turnarounds are the usual 35minutes and an aircraft on longer layover was bumped up to cover their flight with plane notionally theirs dropped into its rotation to Dublin. Very slick indeed.
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I have travelled to ~30 countries so far and I admit without EasyJet's and RyanAir's (+ similar low cost airlines) cheap prices it would not have been achievable for me.
So I have no choice but to use them :-(
I have some poor experience with some long haul national carriers as well.
Best experience is with Singapore Airlines so far.
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>> I have travelled to ~30 countries so far and I admit without EasyJet's and RyanAir's
>> (+ similar low cost airlines) cheap prices it would not have been achievable for me.
>>
>> So I have no choice but to use them :-(
You could stay at home.
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I hadn't flown Ryanair for 20+ years until earlier this year when I took my old Mum out to Alicante from LBA. Virtually all my LCC flights are with Jet2 from LBA and their legroom is noticeably better. I've also used EasyJet ( Liverpool Geneve return a few days ago was £40) & Monarch this year....one thing that surprises me, after 24 flights in the past 18 months, is how lenient some cabin crew are with rowdy passengers... think climbing over seats, loud singing, swearing and general loutish behaviour.
Thank goodness for noise cancelling headphones
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>>.one thing that surprises me, after 24 flights in the past 18 months,
>> is how lenient some cabin crew are with rowdy passengers..
>> think climbing over seats, loud singing, swearing and general loutish behaviour.
I have read about such antics :-(
On one occasion on a flight I did hear joyful singing filtering into my cabin from coach class .
It was quite a few years just before Christmas and the flight from Jeddah was over 12 hours delayed due to snow at Heathrow. It was Just the oil workers and etc catching up on lost drinking sessions. Things have deteriorated since those days.
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I have been fortunate in flying in comfort to many countries both on business and holidays but the vast majority have been with major airlines so I have no experience of Squeezy Jet.
If you know the rules etc then for some Ryanair can be great.
Friends had a house in France which they visited very frequently.
They were able to choose the cheapest fares in advance plus had sufficient clothes in France so it was just turn up with a tiny bag and go. They absolutely loved it.
Due to my location, I would only ever consider a cheap flight, but not for very long, from Gatwick :-(
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Flown with ryan air once, seemed more rushed and more basic than easy jet who we use more with work. The seats on ryan air seemed a lot more uncomfortable and squashed together. I wouldn't use them again if I could avoid it.
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easyJet have always been pretty good and are more aligned to the mainstream carriers in service terms these days leaving Ryan air out on there own in respect of cheap prices meaning dire service.
If passengers voted with their feet, or their backsides, they would have to up their game, though as long as people are happy to be treated like sheep to save a few quid then Ryanair will prosper and its passengers will suffer.
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I'm happy to travel with any LCC, it's just that my local airport, an hours drive away, is LBA, and a hub for Jet2.
If you can be selective, flights can be ridiculously cheap, as was mine a few days ago. I was looking at spending a few days in Tenerife early October before walking the Speyside Way mid Oct, but the cost of some return flights from TFS>LBA are over £400!
I'm happy to pay £125 return for 4/5 days there but certainly no more
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Had to do Milan and Madrid on business a few years ago, £1500 via LHR (LHR - MXP - MAD - LHR) as three single flights with BA, Alitalia and Iberia IIRC. Whereas easyJet (BRS - MXP - MAD - BRS) was about £300 and Bristol is a lot easier for me than Heathrow.
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400,000 more passengers to be hit by Ryanair cancellations
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41414414
IIRC lots of pilots were going to magically appear and all would revert to " normal"
Meanwhile
Michael O’Leary, Chief Executive of Ryanair after arriving in a hotel in Manchester went to the bar and asked for a pint of Guinness.
The barman said, "That will be £1 please, Mr. O’Leary."
Taken aback, O'Leary replied, "That's very cheap," and handed over his money.
"We do try to stay ahead of the competition", said the barman. "We have the cheapest beer in England".
"That is remarkable value", Michael comments.
"I see you don't have a glass, you'll need one of ours. That will be £3 please."
O'Leary scowled, but paid up. He took his drink and walked towards a seat.
"Ah, you want to sit down?" said the barman. "That'll be an extra £2. If you'd pre-booked it would have cost £1."
O'Leary swore to himself, but paid up.
"I see you've brought your laptop" added the barman. "That wasn't pre-booked either, that's another £3."
O'Leary was so incensed and his face was red with rage.
"I've had enough! I insist on speaking to a manager!"
"Here is his e-mail address, or if you wish, you can contact him between 9.00 am and 9.01am every morning, Monday to Tuesday
Calls are free, unless answered, then there is a charge of only £1 per second".
"I will never use this bar again".
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Good story, Henry.
"400,000 more passengers to be hit by Ryanair cancellations"
It has been said upthread that passengers have gradually returned to Ryanair after earlier setbacks but I just wonder if, this time, so many have been affected - and affected badly, that the effect will be deeper and longer lasting. It's one thing to be annoyed about being fleeced of £30 or £40 during the booking process, and something else to have your holidays completely screwed up and be one or two £k out of pocket.
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I've just looked on my brokers website and their Ordinary Euro shares are up 3.71% today
Make of that what you will... unless the announcement was made after trading finished for the day
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It's because they have abandoned purchase of Air Italia
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I see that the CAA are now firing early warning shots of court action because Ryanair are 'deliberately misleading 'customers about their rights ..... what a surprise.
Chickens are coming home to roost for O' Leary.
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Good call CGN. I've just seen that news... management needs its attention elsewhere at the current moment
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Shares down 4.3% today at close of trading
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"Shares down 4.3% today at close of trading"
Ah - somebody must have read my post of 27/9, 22:38 ;-)
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A good buy if they drop a few points more. Ryanair is fundamentally a cash cow.
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>> Ryanair is fundamentally a cash cow.
You'd assume so. But I for one will prefer alternatives for a route Ryanair does as well now. Thought to use them over the winter.
They will take a hit in bookings and share price for sure.
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Why have Ryanair recently started a TV advertising campaign? - they certainly don't want extra customers at this time as they can't handle the one's they have! - pointless!
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>> Why have Ryanair recently started a TV advertising campaign? - they certainly don't want extra
>> customers at this time as they can't handle the one's they have! - pointless!
The vast majority of their future flights continue to operate and each needs as near as possible 189 bums on seats. Get the prices right and all last week's troubles will be forgotten to punters.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 2 Oct 17 at 12:01
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Doesn't seem to have done them much harm looking at the latest figures. Sales are up 10% sept compared to last sept, even with all those cancelled flights.
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They have grown their fleet and network in that time so even with the cancelled flights they will be doing more business. Also people often don't have much choice on some routes, that how they get away with bad service, they are often the only budget airline of the route.
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I'm sure there are many reasons but nevertheless more is more. I don't think this will have much affect. Like brompt says get the prices right in some big sale and all will be forgotten.
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Ryanair Debacle - Runfer D'Hills
