GAHHHHHHHHHH
Its becoming a real PITA. Pubs, on the whole round here (Surrey hills and burbs) are stable and viable. Elsewhere!!!!!
I have booked a holiday cottage for the end of the month, dog friendly so need to book early. Booked 7 months ago, a nice little cottage in Devon, within walking distance of what looked like (street view and trip advisor) a pretty good village pub.
b*****thing closed for business two months ago. Thats the second time thats happened to me in three years. Last time was in Suffolk.
Looks like we will have to pack the gin
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 15 Sep 17 at 12:06
|
Must have heard you were arriving ;-)
No 'spoons nearby?
|
>> No 'spoons nearby?
No, thankfully.
|
>>
>> Looks like we will have to pack the gin
>>
....as if you weren't going to anyhow.......
;-)
|
>> ....as if you weren't going to anyhow.......
Well if you are going to be pedantic about it. "pack extra gin to supplement the strategic reserve and emergency back up prosecco"
|
I was gutted to find my other 'local' had closed recently. Shaun had to close it as the brewery wouldn't budge on reducing the rent. Talk about cut off their nose to spite their face.
www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial-property-for-sale/property-39538817.html
|
>> I was gutted to find my other 'local' had closed recently. Shaun had to close
>> it as the brewery wouldn't budge on reducing the rent. Talk about cut off their
>> nose to spite their face.
>>
>> www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial-property-for-sale/property-39538817.html
Exactly that happened here in November 2015. Turnover £2000-£3000 a week, all wet stock to be bought from the brewery at high prices, rent £700 a week. The last pub in the village.
A local chap with pub experience stepped up and did a deal with the brewery to keep it open while they were "looking for a tenant". c. £4,000 was raised from donations to fund the stock. Eventually they put it on the market, and a local couple have bought it and now run it on as a free house. The interim landlord received wages and paid bar staff, and when it sold we all got our money back.
|
These days what with Small Business Rate relief and the new £1000 pub relief, many pubs are financially far better off regarding their rates.
Its usually the breweries that 'swear filter' them over with massive rents that often cause closures.
|
Both main pubs in village are currently shut. Only The Wharf, a pub restaurant on the canal, remains open.
Of the others one has been for sale for ages and been secured as a community assett. Reportedly been bought by local 'pub entrepreneur' already running licenced premises in town. Hopefully it will re-open when the transfer and (needed) upgrades have taken place.
The other was, when we moved here in nineties, a bustling but unpretentious 'pub that does food'. It was also centre of local activity with active dominoes, crib etc, a savings club and a busy time after bell ringing practice at church. Got too heavy on the food side and locals felt edged out. Tenants moved on. After a few chequered years it seemed to be thriving as recently as August BH when it had a beer festival with live music etc. However a message appeared on village Facebook this week saying it was closed until further notice with landlords thanking people for their custom.
Owned by a pubco so I suspect there'll be another mug along shortly willing to sink in his savings and work all hours to enrich the owners before falling by way side bankrupt and or exhausted.
|
|
There were 21 pubs, clubs and 2 night-clubs in this town when We came here in the early nineties, now there are 2 pubs and the Cons club!
|
|
A seventh Subway has opened in my town of fewer than 100,000 population.
|
The 'community asset' can be a double edged sword. I knew of a publican who fell ill with an incurable illness. He and his wife closed their pub and put it up for sale.
Some of the villagers had it declared a 'community asset' and the sale was stopped. Basically it had to be sold as a pub so it limited the number of potential buyers.
The chap couldn't work so couldn't pay the rates and fell into more debt.
After 18 months it was eventually sold to a company created by the villagers. The owner said many of the villagers who campaigned to buy the pub didn't even drink there! They just didn't want to lose the pub and see it turned into a house.
Rather than live out his final years in stress free peace it probably hastened his eventual demise.
|
The community asset protection only lasts 6 months, and is meant to ensure that the local community have opportunity to negotiate to buy if it is put up for sale.
Pubs shouldn't close. It's a one way ratchet. Perhaps unfortunate for the couple who bought it, but they bought it as a pub. If it was easy to buy a pub and then sell it for twice the price as a dwelling, then we wouldn't have any pubs left at all.
Credit to the villagers who helped keep it open.
I'm not a big user of the village pub (average once a week at most) but yes, I didn't want it to close because it would hit the attractiveness of the village, damage the community, and reduce the value of my house.
We have lost the post office, the shop, a butcher's, a pub and a greengrocer since 1993. There is only the school and the one pub left.
|
|
The way some Kids are nowadays that would make a viable merger! ;-)
|
|
To which part are you heading?
|
|
Bout 5 miles outside Plymouth. Devon side.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 15 Sep 17 at 15:17
|
|
Ah! I don't know that area at all, but a similar situation exists up here. Bit of a dearth I'm afraid. A combination of wannabe landlords, crippling rents, poor standards and expensive ale. It'll not come back I'm afraid. Enjoy your break.
|
When I smoked, and you could smoke in pubs, it was one of my favourite things to do to go for a pint and a fag after work or at the weekend. When they banned smoking it became less attractive to me, unless the weather was good enough to be outside, but a traditional boozer with a log fire on a winter's night, with a decent beer and a few smokes was a real pleasure. To me anyway.
Then, when I stopped smoking, I lost the taste for beer too. The one didn't seem right without the other. Too wet really, and I never did like pork scratchings.
Hardly ever go into one now and tend to invite friends over to our house or visit them at home instead. Miss it a bit, but by and large, if we do get around to going to a pub, it tends to disappoint me now.
Pity really, I suppose.
|
There were 69,000 pubs in Britain in 1980, down to 50,000 now according to CAMRA. A pub in Fishguard which changed hands for 250k about a decade ago recently went for 80k.
Re Runfer's point about the smoking ban, most of those I know who were enthusiastic about it either never went in pubs at all or did so once in the blue moon. If there had been any demand for non smoking pubs some enterprising brewery or individuals would have filled it.
|
I have always felt that Landlords should have been allowed the choice to make a pub either a smoking or non smoking pub.
Providing it's made clear on the outside door then people have a choice whether to use it or not.
Pat
|
|
I'm not going to get into any argument about smoking bans or drink driving, in truth it's tough (impossible?) to justify defying either I guess. But, there's no doubt in my mind that those two factors have contributed strongly to the demise of country pubs. In my youth, bowling out to a country pub in my MG Midget for a couple ( yes a couple ) of beers and and a smoke was a pleasurable trip, but I'd not risk the drink now and wouldn't be able to smoke if I still did, so it'd seem a bit of a waste of time. You don't always want a meal just because you've driven 20 miles, and driving 20 miles to drink an orange juice doesn't seem all that much of an incentive.
|
In the 60's I use to drive the local pub's ( The Black Horse Belton Rutland!) darts team to away matches because I didn't drink.
I only had an Austin A30 van and they all managed to get it.
....it's where I learned my repertoire of rugby songs from singing our way home:)
One black one, one white one......don't go there Pat, it will get you banned for good!
Pat
|
>>One black one, one white one......don't go there Pat, it will get you banned for good!
I often sing those (to myself) but I only know it up to D is for drunkard ...!
:o}
Last edited by: Dog on Fri 15 Sep 17 at 19:27
|
>>One black one, one white one......don't go there Pat, it will get you banned for good!
The engineer's song.
The good ship Venus.
We went to the animal zoo.
Eskimo Nell.
Dinah!
Different lyrics to other countries national anthems.
And many more I've forgotten.
|
I was treated to an evening's rendition of this sort of thing a few weeks ago by Dr. Busker at the Great Dorset Steam Fair. Absolutely hilarious and I could remember most of the words.
tinyurl.com/yblpzmqk
tinyurl.com/y8ha95r3
Loads more on Youtube.
WARNING NSFW!
|
|
Excellent HM. Takes me right back to my rugby days.. smirk.
|
>> Re Runfer's point about the smoking ban, most of those I know who were enthusiastic
>> about it either never went in pubs at all or did so once in the
>> blue moon. If there had been any demand for non smoking pubs some enterprising brewery
>> or individuals would have filled it.
>>
I partly blame the 1970's/80's penchant for knocking all the smaller rooms into one big 'un. Back in the day, it was commonplace for one of the bars (usially the lounge) to be non-smoking hence the term "smoke room" sometimes applied to the main bar.
You may remember that when Wetherspoons first started, they promoted their pubs having a non-smoking area, a good idea I thought at the time,even though I smoked myself then; although one of the reasons I no longer use them (apart from the indisputable fact that they are to beer what McDonalds is to burgers) is that they do not allow the use of e-cigarettes, forcing me to stand outside with the tobacco brigade.
I fully agree with you regarding the reluctance of the anti-smoking extremists to come into pubs though; I suspect it's more likely because they fear they might enjoy themselves or observe other people doing so, and that would never do!
|
I fully agree with you regarding the reluctance of the anti-smoking extremists to come into
>> pubs though; I suspect it's more likely because they fear they might enjoy themselves or
>> observe other people doing so, and that would never do!
I wonder how large this group really is? I've seen them referenced many times but tbh i remain sceptical that they are there in any significant numbers.
|
>> I wonder how large this group really is? I've seen them referenced many times but
>> tbh i remain sceptical that they are there in any significant numbers.
>>
They're like unruly infants; small, insufferably noisy and no longer legally allowed to be smacked!
|
>> apart from the indisputable fact that they are to beer what McDonalds is to burgers
>>
I don't know about McDonalds and burgers, but it is obviously intended to be a slur, so, for the record I dispute that indisputable fact.
Sadly my local 'spoons in Walton on Thames has now gone, but in my experience they had a wide selection of well kept, reasonably priced beers.
|
>>
>> I don't know about McDonalds and burgers, but it is obviously intended to be a
>> slur, so, for the record I dispute that indisputable fact.
>>
Not so much on the food Duncan but on the ubiquity of the places. For all that they do serve decent beers at reasonable prices, like any chain they've also been responsible for the demise of smaller individual businesses. And again like all chains i find them soul-less.
|
I am not a CAMRA member but I do enjoy good real ale.
When I first started (ahem illegal) drinking in 1971 typical prices were about 2 shillings or 10p a pint. Applying the official overall inflation figure since then thats about £1.30 today. Round here most pubs now charge £4.00 or close to it.
I am sure there are lots of reasons for the price of beer outstripping general inflation by such a huge margin over recent years. However the result is beer is a lot less affordable.
Also if you pay £4 for a pint you want it to be tip-top but too often its not good, although not bad enough to send back. The result is it becomes more attractive to drink bottled beer at 1971 pub prices, at home.
I still go to the pub most weeks but, as others have said, the choice is narrowing as they close.
|
We had a decent pub close nearby.
It had a lovely beer garden backing on to woods and in the evening you would get all sorts of wildlife venture in to the garden, which, over a pint or three would add a little to the atmos. Reasonable pub grub too.
Late last year a new chain pub / restaurant opened right opposite. All on the main road with swings and a slide in the beer garden. It does far more food then wet trade.
The old pub just could not stand the competition and shut up for good a few weeks back. :-(
|
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/07/london-no-longer-uks-expensive-place-buy-pint-beer/
Surrey is now the UK's most expensive place to order a pint of beer, according to the latest Good Pub Guide.
Prices in the county are being driven higher by a surge of affluent people moving out of London in search of "the good life", according to the guide.
It is the first time ever that London has been overtaken as the place with the priciest pints, with the average price of a pint in Surrey soaring to £4.40, some 20p higher than in the capital where it costs £4.20.
|
|
My father in law reckons he used to sink 8 pints on a Friday night. I've never been able to do that, or indeed wanted to, but it seems like it wasn't so unusual among these unreconstructed northern types back in the day. At the thick end of a fiver a pint, that'd be a bit of a thought eh?
|
Our small village of just a few thousand has three pubs, all do food although not at the same level. All three have a different market , one mainly does food, another music and the third is a classic pub a few sandwiches, pool table open fire etc. All three are busy, some are rammed on a weekend especially the later.
|
Article in the current Private Eye is scathing about the Pub companys and how they are completely ignoring the Pubs code put in place to allow tenants to exit the tie and buy cheaper beer under the matket rent only tenancy option.
Only 11 have succeeded out of 497 who applied..less than 2 percent.
The tactics used are said to be bullying,antagonistic, delaying and frustrating to tenants with pubcos' insisting that to break the tie ,tenants have to sign a new tenancy agreement instead of a simple deed of variation.
New agreements require hefty depoaita, rent in advance ,maintenance and repair charges etc etc..
My nearest pub has in the last 6 months been closed and is now 6 houses.
The only good reason I go to a pub now is for a meal...and there are several good options in the town and villages around here including one which was bought out from the pubco who could not make it pay by the present owners who have a mention in the Michelin guide for their food.
Last edited by: helicopter on Fri 15 Sep 17 at 18:00
|
Four things have killed the pub.
In order
1/ Drink Driving. Not the law, because few get caught due to lack of police, but the social stigma of so doing.
2/ Supermarket beer prices.
3/ The anti smoking bans, tho other anti smoking measures will kill smoking anyway.
4/ Brewery policies.
Four Things that have saved pubs
Food,
Food,
Food
Food.
A USP helps, (fantastic location, historical context, foot fall, unique architecture)
|
"fantastic location, historical context, foot fall, unique architecture"
You have just described the Corn Exchange, Bury St Edmunds (Wetherspoons)
|
|
Alright for a coffee and certainly a fine building and credit to wetherspoons for the restoration but it's not really a proper pub. The Mason's Arms would be my choice with the Cannon for food and the Nutshell for a quick half.
|
"The Mason's Arms would be my choice with the Cannon for food and the Nutshell for a quick half."
Good choices, CG. 'The Rose & Crown' at the corner of Whiting St and Westgate St is a very traditional pub - good beer, professional landlord and a 'local' feel to it. 'The Dove' in Hospital Road is said to have the best range of beers and is very much an enthusiast's pub though it's on the other side of town from me.
|
>>A USP helps, (fantastic location, historical context, foot fall, unique architecture)
Was up at The Clachaig Inn at Glencoe last weekend - now there is a license to print money!!
|
>>2/ Supermarket beer prices.
You can't beat a beer in good company. That's why I never drink at home. ;-)
|
That reminds me of the old one about the guy who says he hasn't spoken to his wife in four years.
Not that their marriage was in trouble, he just didn't like to interrupt...
;-)
|
>>Four Things that have saved pubs
>>
In recent years I have used pubs more frequently, when on the road, for a coffee and their loo
Usually not in a town and often with a USP as Zero said.
|
"Four things have killed the pub"
And not forgetting loud music, blaring fruit machines and the ubiquitous 90" widescreen TV in front of the ancient inglenook fireplace showing 22 overpaid men from some dull Premiership team rolling on the floor with a broken nail.
Last edited by: TheManWithNoName on Mon 18 Sep 17 at 12:40
|
|
Most of those pubs survive, given the right catchment area.
|
>>Sadly my local 'spoons in Walton on Thames has now gone, but in my experience they had a wide selection of well kept, reasonably priced beers.
Duncan
it is open again with a new owner- see below
>> "Four things have killed the pub"
>>
>> And not forgetting loud music, blaring fruit machines and the ubiquitous 90" widescreen TV in
>> front of the ancient inglenook fireplace showing 22 overpaid men from some dull Premiership team rolling on the floor with a broken nail.
>>
See inside the all-new Walton Regent Pub after £325,000 investment
The pub was put on the market last year by JD Wetherspoons
www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/see-inside-new-walton-regent-13683312#ICID=nsm
But note
Walton’s first big High Street sports viewing amenity with three Sky and BT Sports boxes and eight high-tech HD TVs.
|
The 'Spoons in Walton on Thames has gone. It went several months ago.
Sob.
It was taken over by Stonegate Pubs. It reopened after a couple of days, I tried it two or three times and it wasn't a patch on the old 'Spoons.
It has now had a refurb and has yet to be given my seal of approval, and I just have this funny feeling that it won't get my seal of approval.
Update to follow.
|
The photos of clientele and bar staff would be enough to put me off.
www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/gallery/see-inside-new-regent-pub-13683112
Last edited by: sherlock47 on Thu 28 Sep 17 at 07:30
|
Those beers, Dark Star & Jaipur are excellent, look flat. Need a sparkler fitting on the pump.
The only things flat in my locals are the caps. And I would hazard a guess that they charge more than £3 a pint
|
The stuff from the Surrey Hills Brewery is quite nice as well. I like their "Shere Drop"
The Surrey Hills is becoming a bit of a Mecca for booze. We have the Silent Pool gin distillery, three excellent wine makers & vineyards*, and 8 local breweries supplying a shed load of buoyant interesting stable pubs.
*if you like whites, still cant make decent reds.
|
You can now get Norfolk gin, Norfolk wine, Norfolk ale and lager , Norfolk cider, Norfolk whisky and Norfolk vodka. How's that for self sufficiency?
The whisky is rather good by the way. Was given a bottle last Christmas. I believe it's the only whisky distillery in England.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Thu 28 Sep 17 at 10:06
|
They're making whisky, vodka, gin, etc all over France these days.
It's a bit like the computerisation of many aspects of modern life, isn't it? Everybody can do everything - and most of it is rubbish and should be left to the experts...
|
|
Surely with beer etc it's more like a return to how things once were. Breweries etc were local operations using local materials and the product had local characteristics. Then the big guys took over and gave us mass produced inferior products. I welcome the return of small local companies.
|
We, even in benighted Worksop, have a micro brewery. They own two pubs, one in Retford and one in Worksop.
The Grafton Brewing Co. produces some luscious beers at good prices (no more than £2.50 a pint) and the pub in our town also carries guest beers from other brewers, mostly from Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire.
|
>> The whisky is rather good by the way. Was given a bottle last Christmas. I
>> believe it's the only whisky distillery in England.
Adnams produce a whisky - Suffolk.
|
>> Adnams produce a whisky - Suffolk.
Penderyn from Wales has been going for some time now. New distilleries have also started on the Western Isles. Abhainn Deargh near Uig on Lewis has been distilling for some time now and it's 10yo, from local barley, goes on sale next year. At the other end of the 'Long Island' another one has commenced operations in Tarbert Harris. First whisky is still sleeping in maturation barrels but in meantime they've introduced Harris Gin.
We're off to Harris in June next year. First visit since 2010. Will be visiting both sites.
|
>>Penderyn from Wales
The clue is in the third word here...
Extraordinary though that a decade or two ago you 'couldn't' give whisky away.
|
So they do! The Norfolk one is worth a visit if you are ever ib the area (Attleborough near Norwich)
www.englishwhisky.co.uk
|
A quick look at Wikipedia reveals that it is a growing business!
Whisky was the only reason that Scotland was worth a visit. No need any more. :-)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_whisky
|
>> You can now get Norfolk gin, Norfolk wine, Norfolk ale and lager , Norfolk cider,
>> Norfolk whisky and Norfolk vodka. How's that for self sufficiency?
>>
Last time I stopped that way (*just* over the border in Suffolk) in a nice hotel they had a wide range of norfolk drinks including lager. Not normally a fan of English lager but they had some really nice ones. Can't remember the name of the brewery though.
Local brewery to us is batemans.
www.bateman.co.uk/our+brewery/our+brews
my favourite is the combined harvest.
|
Pub Closures - sooty123
