Before appearing completely stupid when speaking to builders, I have a question please :) In short, is it possible to have a small, wrap-around glass extension (ground floor) cantilevered from the main house?
Situation is, we've a decent sized Edwardian house. If I'm honest, more room than we really need - there's only two of us. But the living space is not really suited to our lifestyle.
We've got a decent sized kitchen, with an island for cooking and prep. It's 13' x 10' ish. People tend to hang out around this chatting while cooking takes place. We've also got a reasonable sized dining room next to it - 13'x 15' with a big bay window. So easy, knock through and there's a room 13' x 25' that'll make a nice kitchen / dining space, with loads of light, room for all the kitchen we could want, an island with space to graze on at breakfast time, a decent sized dining table and some seating.
However, it is also nice to use a more formal dining room. So I'd hate to lose that option. That's fine - to the side of the kitchen is a breakfast room, semi open plan to the kitchen at the moment. It's where we eat if we don't have guests. Trouble is, it's not large enough for a proper dining room - it's rather long and narrow, with a bay window looking over the garden. It's 6' by 13' including the bay.
It occurred to me that if I could extend out by 3 or 4 foot in length and width we could have a 10'x 17' space that would work as a dining room. Not only that, but if the wrap-around 'walls' were mostly glass it'd feel bigger and look right out over the garden. It's a north facing room, so it'd also be much lighter. Then I thought, as we've got quite high suspended floors, why not just push the floor out with with steels, cantilevered somehow like a floating balcony, to avoid any of that nonsense like foundations ;) Glass walls and roof, and Bob's your uncle ;)
Am I mad?
mmm sorry...that wasn't meant to be so long...
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Depends on the builder. Ask an architect?
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Thanks; yes, I expect you're right but I have to confess I'd assumed they'd be less helpful on the practical 'is it sensible' question, because I expect it *is* possible, at a price. It does also seem to be tricky to get architects interested in such a small project, but I'm hopeful I have a lead to follow up tomorrow!
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Glass walls and roof is sounding like a sort of conservatory and building regs will no doubt dictate what is allowed. Maybe get in touch with a building officer for a chat - is that even possible?
Heating and heat loss will be an issue... and conservatories are not meant to have heating in them. And there should be a way of shutting them off from the house.
Why not do it properly and get an extension?
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sun 23 Jul 17 at 22:01
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>> Glass walls and roof is sounding like a sort of conservatory and building regs will
>> no doubt dictate what is allowed. Maybe get in touch with a building officer for
>> a chat - is that even possible?
>>
>> Heating and heat loss will be an issue... and conservatories are not meant to have
>> heating in them. And there should be a way of shutting them off from the
>> house.
>>
>> Why not do it properly and get an extension?
>>
I want it to be an extension not a conservatory, and I'm pretty sure that modern double or triple glazed glass could provide better insulative properties than the existing Edwardian brickwork and single glazed windows so *should* be okay from a building regs perspective. So I'd like to do it properly, but unconventionally :)
The alternative would undoubtedly be a red brick version of this: tinyurl.com/y7g7sxfm
Nice enough, but predictable. Let's see what the architect says :)
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All I know is what we found out when buying this house with a conservatory where rules had not been followed 100%.
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Be worth talking to an established Conservatory company. We're umming and ahhing a similar idea. Mrs RP reckoned it was a deal-breaker when we bought the place, but not as much now. May be worth talking to a small "Community Architect" (yes they do exist) - there are a couple of very good ones local to where I used to live. Should be some in your area. Is the house listed or in a conservation area ?
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I suppose you could construe it as a large bay window;)
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I did something similar a few years... living within the YDNP I employed a local architectural technician who had contacts there and could advise accordingly. Plans were drawn up to knock out some of the existing external wall and build a full length single storey ' summer room' with dwarf walls. Steel supports, clad in sapele, were welded to steel cross beams and the tiled roof, with velux windows, was keyed into the house.
Decent foundations were dug, a radon trap put in place and zoned underfloor hot water heating laid.
I know some good builders, one man bands with plenty of experience. I laboured. The cost was not much more than neighbours had paid for conservatories with national companies, but the end result was that it looked like an original build, not an extension. And 100x better than a glass conservatory.
The secret, as always, is having a good, reliable builder who can adapt as things progress. And grafts hard.
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Guardian roofs are very "in" at the moment.
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>> Guardian roofs are very "in" at the moment.
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What's that then, ones which lean to the left?
Last edited by: smokie on Sun 23 Jul 17 at 23:19
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>> I suppose you could construe it as a large bay window;)
>>
That's a brilliant idea - two large, floor to ceiling bay windows! Thanks :)
tinyurl.com/yah3ebsc
Last edited by: PeterS on Sun 23 Jul 17 at 23:29
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Not involving the corner of the house is it? Get's tricky when you mess about with corners.
Anyway, you mentioned the magic word. Cantilever. Cantilever = architect / structural engineer.
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Yess, it'd extend out in a wrap-around fashion on the corner. My thought process was therefore that reasonable extensive ste LS would be requires both horizontally and vertically at to support upstairss, so why not just join them together at the bottom ;) Anyway, architect appointment made. Step one see if we like the architect, step 2 see if we like what he/she says :)
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I don't understand why cantilevering is involved. If the structure is built from the ground up, it will have its own load-bearing footings. A cantilever involves hanging a structure out from the side of something without support immediately below. (Like the mythical conservatory on the 49th floor of a block of flats.)
But maybe I have misunderstood something.
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Yes that exactly what I meant FP; as the internal floor level is quite a bit higher than the external I thought cantilvering the wrap around extension instead of traditional footings might look more interesting, and save any digging!
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You could just have a couple of piers (pillars) at the corners to support it - the new supporting steel would then only need to sit on the existing external wall rather than extending into the house below the existing floor to an anchorage point.
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Yeah, if you want maximum light, then steel frame. Can end up looking like an office building tho.
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I get it now, but I'm thinking it would cause major upheaval to install the necessary steel beams. You would need several and they would have to extend inside the property some way, as well as needing to be anchored internally, which would cause a lot of upheaval inside the house.
I'm interested in building and construction, but only as an amateur - however, it sounds a very intrusive and expensive idea. Manatee's suggestion looks a lot more practical to me.
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Son has had a 28 sq metre extension coming to completion.
1 side is 90% glass, 1 side 50%+glass & 1 solid wall - 5.5 weeks & little in the way of mess.
UNTIL British Gas flooded the only room downstairs not affected by the work - closed wrong valve & disconnected hot water which went everywhere - BG area manager saying not their fault - so lawyer's letter being prepared.
Timber frame, brick skinned, tiled roof £22k+VAT (excludes Architect, surveys & Fees maybe £4,000) which is cheap compared to other quotes which were pushing £40K +vat.
The secret for little mess was starting in June.
You have to watch for creep in prices during the build - asking £200 for this, £300 for that etc etc (a bit like Gap insurance / Scotchguard etc etc when buying a car).
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You could consider pile and beam construction to minimise the dig - can be cost neutral cf conventional footings IF difficult terrain, trees etc. Most small builders however will shy away and you may have to factor in the fees for structural engineer - but you can always get him to supervise and get his PI cover if builders not sure.
Some lightweight conservatory structures now use a steel frame base - see this example www.premierlc.co.uk/conservatory-bases/
Not a a rec, but just a different idea!
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I'll do it fer yer guv, firty grand cash, 'alf up front, that's me 'olliday an the missus new motor sorted and yool be luck if you seem me this side of next Christmas ...
Seriously I like the idea of the cantilevered floor, I'd get a structural engineer to look before even talking to an architect, and SE will give ideas as well as manage your expectations and then you can go to an architect or builder knowing what's possible.
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There should be no 'creep' if the spec was clear, which of course it never is.
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Weird thoughts some of you. Nice clean footing and go from there. No need for tears. Check for services etc., and therefore start from a nice clean base.
Too much glass can be noisy and hot. A few folk I know are having their glass conservatory roofs removed and replaced with slates or other materials due to excess temp and rain rattle!
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Thanks MD, and yes, I understand the downsides of too much glass. But while I'm thinking of, roughly, doubling the square footage only two walls would be glass - the north and west facing ones. And *if* the roof was a glass one it'd only be half the total roof/ceiling area of the room, and would be shaded from the east and south by rest of the two story house.
Hope to have more at the weekend once the architect (or architect's assistant's assistant...) has been to take a look :)
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>> Too much glass can be noisy and hot. A few folk I know are having
>> their glass conservatory roofs removed and replaced with slates or other materials due to excess
>> temp and rain rattle!
>>
Friend of mine has a good living putting window film on conservatories which are too hot...
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>> Friend of mine has a good living putting window film on conservatories which are too
>> hot...
Friend of mine is making a better living selling self cleaning solar glass.
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Building question - Manatee
